Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:04:57 EST

In a message dated 2/12/03 2:54:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at writes:

> I wish we could do that... But general discussion a year ago has shown that
> Nova Roma does not want to throw non-paying citizens out.
>

That's not true. The discussion was about a "pay to play" sort of thing
If you want to vote, hold a magistracy, you paid the Republic for the
privilege

If you didn't pay, you couldn't vote, nor hold offices. However you retained
your
citizenship, and protection under Roman Law.

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] In of the Black Griffon, this Saturday, 2/15
From:	Joanne Shaver <merlinia@comcast.net>
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:29:43 -0500

There are still 10 spaces left.
Many Nova Romans will be there, along with Maximus and his school,
sundry Romans, and of course, the Greatest Tuatha of Roman Nightmares
extant (of course I mean Bheithir).

Anyone who wasn't sure about going, please contact Ragnarr NOW!
at: ragnarr1001@webtv.net

Valete!
-M.

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:38:09 -0600

Ave

I'm not suggesting we throw people out based on income. I'm trying to
suggest ways to raise funds. My much maligned knowledge of Republican Rome
suggests that a person's income or land ownership bestowed certain duties
and rights on them. I suggest we do something similar. But mandatory dues
are a must.

Gaius basilicatus Agricola
-----Original Message-----
From: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus [mailto:cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:56 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola wrote:

<<In the loose plan I'm forming in my mind, thats step number one:
mandatory dues or "taxes".>>

I wish we could do that... But general discussion a year ago has shown
that Nova Roma does not want to throw non-paying citizens out.

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
Treasury Quaestor

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:40:24 -0600

Salve

I like your 5 tiered suggestion. But it should be mandatory. And I'm
certainly not suggesting we toss people out for lack of money.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
-----Original Message-----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:10 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?

Salve,
There are two problems with the idea of manditory
taxes of 20 to 30 dollars. The first is if we start
tossing people who don't pay taxes out, we are likely
to see a lot of resignations from people who would
have paid taxes under the present system. We have a
lot of citizens who think it's unfair to revoke the
citizenship of people who don't pay taxes. I wish it
was otherwise, but that is the reality.

Second we are an international organization. 30
dollars isn't that much in the United States, but for
many citizens living outside the USA it is a far
higher percentage of thier income than it is for
Americans. That is the reason we instituted indexed
taxes last year.

One thing that I would like to see is a 5 tier tax
system with the first class paying the highest rate,
and the fifth class paying the lowest rate.

--- jlasalle <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Ave
>
> Ultimately, all our problems, and all our solutions,
> will come down to
> money. I'm involved with several charities in
> Kansas City. The first line
> of fundraising comes in the form of membership dues.
> Dues that are absolute,
> unwavering, and increase with time. Many
> organizations have different levels
> of membership that have graduated amounts for dues.
> Its my understanding
> that there are no membership fees or dues here, only
> voluntary taxes. That
> needs to change. $20.00 to $30.00 a year should not
> be a problem for an
> organization that has set goals as high as what Nova
> Roma has set. I
> understand some citizens could have a problem with
> paying that kind of
> money. However, without citizens willing to pay
> something in that range, the
> whole scheme is simply a pipe dream. It leads to
> wishful thinking, like
> someone will donate land to an organization that
> cannot even collect a
> minimal amount of operating capital from its own
> members. In the loose plan
> I'm forming in my mind, thats step number one:
> mandatory dues or "taxes".
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
> [mailto:scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 1:56 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
>
>
> Salve Renata,
>
> there is no rules concerning the way the money
> goes to the funds. It is a
> proposal made
> by the Consules to the Senate. Thank you for
> participating to the poll. I
> have to say
> that the names will be kept secret.
>
> Vale,
>
> Scipio
>
> --- "aerdensrw <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>"
> <aerdensrw@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Sextus Apollonius Scipio--Hello, and thank you
> for your response. :)
> >
> > ::Nods:: Yes, figures for land and maintenance
> of it are impossible
> > to know without knowihg where the land would be
> bought, etc. I guess
> > what I'm interested in learning (if possible) is
> what percentage of
> > our annual budget goes to the Land Fund and
> whether or not we are
> > trying to put that money to work.
> >
> > I read from Caseo's site that he advises against
> trying to fund the
> > Land Project primarily through taxation, as most
> sensible countries
> > try to minimize taxation as much as they can
> manage. I have to agree
> > with him that keeping taxes low and not
> depending first on them for
> > the raising of land money is desirable (even
> though I recently wrote
> > a post exhorting the payment of taxes to aid
> with this). But I don't
> > know how profitable other fund-raising ventures
> are.
> >
> > Anyway, I did comment in the poll. Thanks for
> creating that!
> >
> > ---
> > Renata Corva
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
>


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Edictum Aedilicium III - Designatio Domini Factionum
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:27:02 +0100

Edictum Aedilicium III - Designatio Domini Factionum
13th February 2003

Ex Officio Senior Curule Aedile Franciscus Apulsu Caesar

Following the elections and laws published by the last Senior Curule Aedile
Illustrus Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, the four four Domini Factionum for the
four Circus Parties that are called Factiones: Russata (Red), Praesina
(Blue), Veneta (Green) and Albata (White), have to be re-appointed.

I. I'll confirm the ŁEdictum Aedilicium XVIII - Appointment of the four
Domini Factionum" by Illustrus Caeso Fabius Quintilianus appointing the
following citizens to serve each Factio as Dominus Factionis:

Russata: Illustrus Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
Praesina: Illustrus Manius Constantinus Serapio
Veneta: Illustrus Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Albata: Honorable Marcus Octavius Solaris

This is the will of the members of the Factiones. Let us all obey
their will and assist the Domini Factionum in their duties. Honor to
the Domini Factionum and Juppiter Optimus Maximus!!!

II. This edictum becomes effective immediately.

III. Given at February 13th, in the year of the consulship of Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus and Titus Labienus Fortunatus, 2756 AUC.

Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Return to Personal E-Mails
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:52:27 -0500

On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 09:41:42PM +0000, me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> >
> A warning though. If you set all-Linux first, you can't go back.
> Windows is unforgiving (or stupid) so won't rewrite the boot tracks to
> suit itself. Likewise, a dual system really means a W*s subpartition
> inside Unix/Linux.

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Wind*ws does, in fact, overwrite the boot
partition - destructively, so that no trace of another OS's boot sector
remains. Installing Wind*ws first and Linux second is easiest; the other
way, you have to use a Linux boot disk and rerun the boot manager to
make both OSes available. As to the last, there's no such thing as a
"subpartition inside"; partitions are independent entities.

For more info, take a look at The Answer Gang's Knowledge Base (I'm the
maintainer.)

<http://www.linuxgazette.com/tag-kb.html>

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Audietur et altera pars.
May the other part also be heard.
-- N/A. Cf. "Qui statuit aliquid parte inaudita altera, aequum licet statuerit."

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Return to Personal E-Mails
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:56:28 -0500

On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 10:20:29PM +0000, me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> >From : Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
> >>
> >>Just as a quick test, I ran a search on the word ?game? in the
> >>available packages for Debian Linux, and got back 518 hits. This
> >>doesn't even include the commercial games - all the stuff from id
> >>software, Myst, etc. Linuxgames.org has the links to the latest
> >>commercial stuff, and there's a lot.
> >>
> >On the side here, would you happen to know if Red Hat includes a
> >de-Debianiser and what it's called? I've been trying to hack my way
> >back into real computing (not the same since the demise of RSX-11)
> >via setting some RH up. It happens, that I have an Algol-68 to C
> >translator but as a Debian package. I was hoping to look at how
> >things equate.

The universal package converter (same in all distros, as far as I know)
is called "alien." Just do

alien --to-rpm <package>

as root, and Magic Will Happen. :)

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
Anybody can err, but only the fool persists in his fault.
-- Cicero, "Philippicae orationes". Often quoted "errare humanum est,
ignoscere divinum" - to err is human, to forgive divine.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: FACTIO VENETA BLUE BLEU AZUL AZZURRO
From:	"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:00:21 -0000

Salve Gai Corneli Ahenobarbe

>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Cornelius Ahenobarbus"
<ahenobarbus@h...> wrote:
>
> Factio Veneta et omnibus SPD
> I have been active in the past and am ready to participate with
Factio
> Veneta. Do I still own the charioteer Flavius Iaculator?

Yes, if you wish so. You are alredy subscribe to the factioveneta
mailing list, so you continue to be a member for the Veneta.

When is the next
> Ludi?

In April. The Ludi Megalenses will be held then.

>I've also developed some Veneta graphics for possible use as icons
and
> backgrounds for future Veneta related web projects.

Great!!!!

> Also, I'll be out there in the Circus Maximus haranguing the mobs
of the
> Factio Veneta.
>
>
> G*CORNELIVS*AHENOBARBVS
>

OK

Bene vale
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Dominus Factionis Veneta

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Bienvenidas S. Quinta Orbiana y G. Argentina Helena
From:	"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:12:45 -0300

Salvete Sabina Quinta Orbiana et Gaia Argentina Helena

Como propraetor argentino, les doy la más cálida bienvenida. Nuestra provincia argentina esta creciendo cada vez más!!.

As provincial propraetor of Argentina I give you all the warmest welcome. Our province is still growing!!!

Cheers!!! Un brindis!!

Bene Valete

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Senator
Tribunus Plebis
Dominus Factionis Veneta
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae
http://argentina.novaroma.org
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Welcome new Provincia America Boreoccidentalis cives
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna <curatrix@villaivlilla.com>" <curatrix@villaivlilla.com>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:38:04 -0000

It is indeed a pleasure to welcome two new cives to our province, all
thanks to materfamilias Prima Ritulia Nocta. Please join me in making
Gaia Ritulia Magistra and Titus Ritulius Falco welcome to the
fellowship of Nova Roma!

There are many exciting things happening, both locally in Provincia
America Boreoccidentalisbut in our entire Nova Roma world as well. It
is my sincere hope that eventually all members of our large provincia
can meet in person someday, and several of us are already planning a
casual convivium March 1 to celebrate the Roman new year.

Again, welcome to Nova Roma!

---
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Praetrix America Boreoccidentalis
|||| http://ambor.novaroma.org
Discussion Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmBor_Waves/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re-Up
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:03:29 -0500 (EST)

Legata Marina Artori;

My sincere congratulations on your re-appointment as Legata. I am
envious that such a bright light for Nova Roma was out of my reach
during my tenure as ProConsul of the Prvince just to the north of you.

Leave it to my friend and colleague Marinus to seek out those best
suited to bringing his Provincia up to date and back into the Nova Roma
fold at it's former brilliance.

I am pleased to hear of your re-appointment as you are from my personal
experience not only a superb Roman Chef, a lvely young lady, an
interesting discussion partner, and a hard worker in your avocational
interests, but I am sure that your ideas, and support will bring the
Provincia Mediatlantica to new hieghts!!

Congratulations ProPraetor Marinus on your selection, and to Legata
Artori on her reappointment!!!!!!

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Games
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:21:13 -0500 (EST)

Uhhhhhhhhh!!! My head hurts just listening to you guys!!!!! I reember
playing a few card games on my computer at work during slow periods
(shhhhhhhh--don't tell) but Blackjack without money on the table is
about as exciting as watching the grass grow. Since my retirement to a
"quieter life" I now get up earlier, go to bed later than ever before,
and my military modeling suffers because of message reading and writng
and belonging to several reenacatment groups which are doing many things
over the year.

My son gifted me with a CD featuring monstor battlers, and improbable
disasters occuring every 30 seconds, but maybe my needs, are in a
different world. One might say I suppose that I had "grown up", but my
eagerness for deep involvement in oversized, impossibly rich and very
desirable deserts on occasion, my wife has indicated with the proper
amount of dignity laced with a generous amount of criticism, that "my
childhood is far from over." Something about teaching an "old dog new
tricks." (grin!!!!!!!!!).

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] NR Land Project
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:26:30 -0500 (EST)

My friend Agricola has the right of it, in that funding is a major
concern. I belong to several organizations which are of the volunteer
variety and pay or have paid from $15.00 to $95.00 per year for the
privaledge. This normally includes an insurance package as well.

The kicker here is that these organizations guarantee a program of
interest in the areas of endeavor, to which the organization is devoted.
Members are thereforeassured of a program for which they have enrolled
Nova Roma, as a micronation, offers much of the activities of the
internet, but few of the face-to face activities offered by these other
organizations. This is slowly changing, and I suppose will change
further, but NR is handicapped in that a Citizen in Italy or Brazil may
never reasonably hope to meet any of his / her colleages frm the U.S. or
the Scandinavian simply due to distance and scarcity of opportunity.
Therefore, an advanced mandatory tax payment for something that is
provided already for nothing seems, perhaps not to be worth the payment
to many who evaluate the worth of the input from the value of the
return.

This being particularly so, while the Main List, (the primary artery of
communication) is often crammed to overfowing with unending argument,
political in-fighting and insulting / arrogant language.

The idea of a physical place is somewhat in a similar situation, in that
no matter where it is specified to be, only a small portion of the
micro-nation citizenship will ever get to experience it first hand.
Those that do will not find a New-Rome, but rather in all liklihood
nothing but a piece of land much like others surrounding it, with
perhaps a flagpole, defaced by vandals. Nothing certainly comparable to
the great sites of Roman Occupation in Europe and England.

That said, financial and land donation has it's part to play as a whole.
As does writing for grants and asking for supports from businesses,
setting up Roman Events, and working closely institutions having a tie
to the Roman World. Those efforts require a lot of effort, soe skill
and some determination to pin down. To date, one of the Roman Groups
that I belong to has managed to collect over a thousand dollars in two
years in funding for performances in a variety of activities from ball
game half-times to dinner entertainment. This year we are contracted to
another financial engagement. Not a great deal of money, but a start,
at least. The members of this unit pay no dues at all to date, but
there is a clever, interesting and dedicated gentleman with an
imagination and good ideas, who is in charge of fund-raising.

Senator Cassius:

If all that you want at this time is a place from which to fly a flag,
and take pictures of it, I can provide you with a place right now. I
suspect that I can also arrange for anyone who wishes to involve
themselves in such an effort, to schedule a Roman Event there, during
the sumer months. This place is Fort Nathan Hale in New Haven, CT. It
is an American Civil War Era sand fort built in 1863. It is positioned
on the Eastern shore of New Haven Harbor at a place known as Black Rock
Point since the 17th century. The bombproofs or overgrown with brush
and the parapets with grass, and the moat is lined with marsh reeds.
The bridge is reminicent of what might have been found as a result of
Legion Costruction with a design in sand walls rather than wooden ones.

The fort has a shell road which extends through a marsh area to the fort
proper. Half-way there is a large "flag - court" with five large
flagpoles each at the point of a star shaped court. I am a member of
the Fort Nathan Hale Restoration Committee (FNHRC), and serve on the
Committee as the Fort Engineer (non-degreed). The FNHRC has been for
years trying to utilize the fort property to it's maximum during it's
season. It is a city park with very little city support and NO city
funding. I am sure that I can appeal successfully to the Committee, to
allow the fort to be billed as a Nova Roma "place" in the U.S. and put
up a flag, and even have an event there. I am sure that the Provincias
Nova Britannia and Mediatlantica can be pursuaded to actively support
such activity, and the FNHRC might even be willing to allow a small
stipend for such an activity together with the services of thier
fund-raising sub-committee.

Master Agricola:

I agree that funding is a major function of the future plans of Nova
Roma, but in my view so are the ideas of i's citizens. As you and
others have pointed out, Nova Roma does not have the funding to realize
a land purchase, or even the steady funding to support taxes and support
activities for donated land. However, our Citizens are still interested
in some kind of Land Acquistion Plan. Thier continued mailngs have
proven that. I think that they have every right to dreams in that area,
and aain in my view, I believe that some sort of a plan should be put
forward to move that dream along, So, the Sodalitas Egressus has
undertaken a plan to compile all of the ideas submitted in the last two
years on the LandProject List and place them into the archives of the
Egressus WebList. Further, the Praefecti and I have worked a simplified
plan of purchase (one that I have used several times in moving around
the country with remarkable success) to try and determine the Must Have,
Should Have, and Nice To Have elements of any land that we (NR Senate)
ultimaely select. This project has been finished by my two Egressus
Praefecti, and can be viewed by anyone who wishes to involve themselves
in the program. Then we established the most difficult part of the
equation which was the funding Committee, who is involved in looking
into donations, grants, and projects both here in the U.S. and inEurope,
designed to determine ways to raise money for the land fund. There is an
amount of money that was asked and approved by the Senate to be set
aside as the beginning for a land fund, and invested as suggested by a
Quaestor of the period, to begin to work with what we had at that time.
This request was made by myself when I was a Quaestor and I have been
assured that the request was carried out.

That is a plan, which is what you have been asking for in the past. It
has been there all along, and continues to be there at the organization
of those dedicated Praefecti in the Sodalitas Egressus. In fact, I
believe that at one time when you asked me how you could be of use to
Nova Roma, I put you in contact with those Praefecti in order to be able
to use your indicated fund-raising services for this plan.

For those in Nova Roma who are interested in "numbers" I must admit that
I do not do well with numbers, but with some help from my lovely and
very talented wife who is a "numbers and language freak" (Grin!!!!!!)
perhaps I can provide some basic ideas. Here in the Regio of
Connecticut, I own a plot of land about 5 1/2 aces in area. We are
located along the Thames Estuary, betwenn the major ciies of New London
and Norwich. We are in a rural area here but close by a major artery
(Rte 12).

A recent (three years ago) evaluation of the 2 1/2 acres of land that
are currently in woodlot that I own, a "reasonable" price for purchase
for an auxiliary naval facility was offered at $30,000 per acre. The
"fair market price" was further evaluated at approx, 25 % over that
price. This was the price per acre finally paid by the Navy for the
purchase of a nearby 15 acres of wooded unimproved land for a housing
development. The taxes this year in this area are approximately $700 to
$1000 per improved acres (house, long driveway, garage, outbuildings,
gardens, lawns, etc.) Unimproved land, of course, would be very much
less, unless it was catalogued as "buildable land" which in this area of
this Regio is getting scarce. It is my understanding, of course, that
land in the Arizona desert, or in tidal lands subject to seasonal
flooding in Florida is far less also.

In conclusion, these above comments and the questions which given rise
to them have been made many times, over the years by wole groups of
people interested in the NR Land Project. I am not a philanthropist or
I should have long ago funded the purchse of such land as agreed upon by
the NR Senate. I am not able any longer to act out the part of the
"lumberjack" as I did in my younger days, or I should have undertaken to
"clear" land as desired by the NR Senate. As it is all I am presently
able to do, is to recognize the desires of NR Citizens, put together
thier comments, ideas, desires, and hopes into some kind of an archive,
develop from those messages some kind of a plan, and provide this plan
to those who are interested enough to read and provide further ideas on
how to implemnt that plan or improve upon it, I have set myself to do
so. The plan has been in writing since before Master Agricalo joined
NR, put together by Praefecti Serapio, and Scipio of whom I am very
proud and pleased to be associarted with in the Sodalitas Egressus. I
have notified the Main List of these efforts previosly and have insisted
on no entrance requirement to Egressus save for the note that you wish
to belong sent to the Beneficarius Strabo (trog99@hotmail .com).

I have received my answers from ProConsul Cassius about my concerns
regarding the Religio, and I am satisfied in that respect. I have again
notified the NR Main List of the plan in effect presently. I have
chosen to use the Egrssus as a basis for developing this plan because
there were people there who asked to take an active part in this plan,
and who had shown me thier ability and desire to put something together,
and who had the extra time to do so. Further, the Egresss is under my
management presently, and we had the freedom to pursue the ideas
provided by those NR Citizens who were supportive in establishing a plan
of action. We in Egressus stand ready to copy into the archives any
further productive and positive ideas in regard to the NR Land Project,
as the Praefecti have the time to record them. The Praefecti above have
only been cautioned in one aspect of this planned program. Each NR
citizen's comments are to be treated equally, without consideration of
who the individual might be, what position he or she might hold or how
many times the individual might post his / her consistant
determinations.

There are a number of alternatives to the 108 acre final temple complex
envisioned by most Nova Romans. Several people have brought up these
ideas, from a periodcally submerged plot of land, to an isolated
mountain top, to an island in the remoter and more extreme areas of
climate / accessability, to an abandoned building alongside a secondary
road, to the depts of an Arizona or Texas desert or wilderness. All
these ideas are recorded, I am assured, with the advantages and concerns
that each may have to NR. Got an idea --let us have it, got a solution
-- pass it along, Ask your questions, make your points, but I hasten to
remind you that the project is important to many in NR, and that being
so, it is my belief that the discussion should continue apace with the
fforts to accumulate funding answers to those particular questions. It
is in my mind that as we get closer to making some final decisions
regarding Must Have, Sjould Have, and Nice To Have Features of
prospective land considerations, the individual opinion level being what
it is here, that the discussion period necessary to reach some kind of
concurrence, may well take longer than raising the funding needed for
final aquisition.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Praefectus Fabrum -- Sodalitas Egressus -- Nova Roma

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:37:59 -0800 (PST)

Salve Gaius Basilicatus Agricola,

I agree with you when you say that increasing the membership would be a solution. But in
the present state of NR, we will face a tremendous problem. In much macronations, the
taxes are lowered to such an extent that for exemple, in France, a lot of people are
exempt of any income tax. What would be then our credibility to ask $30 to our citizens?
My point of view is that we should first of all gain some recognition from the
macroworld.
Without it, we are in no position to ask for more taxes or even to hope for any donation.
Recognition is the main goal of the platform of Honored Consul Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.

Vale,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Consular Quaestor

> Ultimately, all our problems, and all our solutions, will come down to
> money. I'm involved with several charities in Kansas City. The first line
> of fundraising comes in the form of membership dues. Dues that are absolute,
> unwavering, and increase with time. Many organizations have different levels
> of membership that have graduated amounts for dues. Its my understanding
> that there are no membership fees or dues here, only voluntary taxes. That
> needs to change. $20.00 to $30.00 a year should not be a problem for an
> organization that has set goals as high as what Nova Roma has set.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New Britannia Provincia Website!!
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:52:05 +0000 (GMT)

Salvete,

It is with a great deal of satisfaction that I
announce the new website for Britannia Provincia.

You can access the site through the following link:
http://www.onlineera.com/britannia/

A very special thank you to Equestria Iunia Laeca for
all her help and assistance in setting up this site.
I'm sure you will agree with me that she has done a
sterling job and I am most grateful for it.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae.

__________________________________________________
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from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New & New Too
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:29:30 +0100

Salve Linda,

Welcome to NR! As he's already mentioned, the Governor of Britannia, Decimus
Iunius Silanus will take good care of you if you have any questions.

Salve Minervina Varia Rutila,

<My husband and I are both new also. I am pagan and I love and worship
<Minerva, Vulcan, Diana, and Poseidon.

Welcome to both you and your husband! There are many Pagans in Nova Roma.
You should also join our Religio Romana list by sending a blank email to
ReligioRomana-subscribe@yahoogroups.com And once you subscribe, don't
forget to take a look in the message archives. Amongst many excellent posts,
two Pontifices in particular posted some excellent 'how to' emails in
January: Marcus Cassius Julianus {our Pontifex Maximus} & Antonius Gryllus
Graecus.

And you've probably found these pages already, but if you haven't, the
Religio section of the Nova Roma website is just loaded with excellent
information regarding the Religio. http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Priestess of Venus & Tribunus Plebis

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Closed Gens?
From:	"William Rogers <wlr107@yahoo.com>" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:00:09 -0000

Well, it seems that being on the top of the page once again help my
friend Sulla! HEY! Why not do a reverse order on the gens list page
fo this year? We Tarquitii and others at the bottom aren't catching
any break! :-) *wink*

*mumbling* I wonder if I can hide those other gens....hhhhmmmmm*wink*

HEY! I AM JOKING ABOUT THE HIDING THING!!

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> I gotcha. <g>
>
> Well its not the first time that I have gotten gens members because
other gentes were closed. Hopefully, we (NR) would have finally
found a way to resolve closed gentes....(If NR implements the laws
that are on the books).
>
> I have stated before that I wont stop anyone from leaving Cornelia
to another gens....and there is an edict allowing that very thing
from happening. I just have sentimental ties to the ancient
Cornelians who were the most promient gens in ancient Rome. :)
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Caius Cornelius Varus <eq_germanicus@y...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 3:20 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Closed Gens?
>
>
> Hullo Pater...
> LOL, Just possibly looking to reconcile my SCAdian persona (Caius
> Livius Varus Germanicus) with my NR self. Maybe I can combine the
two
> somehow since the Cornelii have been pretty cool thus far.
>
>
> C. Cornelius Varus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
> <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Well there isnt yet, if you want to go about it honorably (IMHO
of
> course)....but after the Census most closed gentes will be
available.
> >
> > But if you really want to you can request the Praetors to
> intervene...though personally I do not care for that way. I
would
> suggest to wait for the Census to be conducted which SHOULD
happen in
> about 3 months.
> >
> > I am curious what gens are you looking at?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Indo-European Languages-Response
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:06:51 -0500

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Horatia Minucia Caesar. Salve.

When the Indo-Europeans swept out of the area of modern Scandinavia about 10,000 years ago, their migrations slowly progressed east to the Indus Valley. They were probably responsible for the destruction of the civilizations of Harappa and Modenjo-daro; which were fairly advanced cultures for their time period. For no discernable reason, they then moved westward through Mesopotamia and came in contact with Egypt (ca. Rameses II) and Mycenaea (ca. post-Trojan War) sometime in the 13th century B.C. before moving through to modern Western Europe, the British Isles, and Ireland. These invaders were known as the Sun People or Horse People. Their behavior and culture were likely similar to the Scythians that ranged through southern Russia to northern Mesopotamia to Greece during the period of 1200-300 B.C. To paraphrase one of my teachers, the Scythians were not a nice group and did not play well with others.
With the exception of the Basque, Ugrian, and Finnish languages, all other languages are descendants of Old Indo-European (aka Sanskrit). This includes Old Norse, Old German, Old Slavic, and the Q- and P-Goidelic tongues spoken by the Celts, Irish, etc. Latin is an Indo-European language that contains elements of Ancient Greek and e P-Goidelic languages along with unknown elements of Etruscan and Umbrian hill tongues. Old French (500-1000 AD) was a combination of Latin and Old German & Old Norse (with minor elements of P-Goidelic in Brittany and some Slavic influence secondary to the Hunnic period (350-500 AD) in the northwest); the northern portion of France was heavily influenced by the dialect of Old German found among the Franks while the South was more influenced by the Gothic language but Latin was still more influential. This results in the famous 'oui' in the north and 'oc' in the south. The dialect of Provence has more Latin influence while the area around Bordeaux has some elements of Middle English due to the long Anglo-Plantagenet presence in that region.
Modern Italian is a much greater polyglot being a conglomeration of Latin, Byzantine Greek (in the south), Old German (dialects-Lombardic and Gothic), Middle German, and modern 19th century/20th century English. Historically, Italy was under many more foreign influences prior to unification in 1860 than France was during the period from 400-1600 AD.
The professor is correct in that the southern French dialect is closer to Latin than the Parisian French dialect of the north. Italian has more debasement of the Latin tongue than French. All of the 'Old' languages--German, Norse, Goidelic, Slavic, Greek, Latin--are derived from Proto-Indo-European languages. Latin, Greek, German, and Goidelic are not derived from Proto-Slavic however but from Ancient Indo-European. It is very difficult for ancient language scholars to determine how much of the pre-Indo-European languages survived in areas outside of Basque and Finnish areas. Furthermore, some ancient languages like Harappan, Samnite, and Etruscan are untranslatable or unknown to modern scholars.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?-An Opinion
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:33:37 -0500

This theory has a basis in history. During the period of the Kings and the Republic down to Marius, there were five classes of citizens based on wealth. The first class male citizens were equipped as Grecian hoplite (hoplite shield, armor, helmet, spear, sword) or as cavalry (equites); the second class with Italic scutum, armor, helmet, spear, sword; the third class as before without body armor or greaves; the fourth class as velites armed with sword, javelins, shield, and helmet; and the fifth class as slingers (possibly armed with a sword, axe, or dagger and using a pelta shield). Now this division was made based on wealth and not by patrician vs. plebian class; some patricians could be found in the second class while there were plebians in the cavalry and first class.
In modern terms, it would reflect well on the Roman model of the wealthy (or well-off) to give freely of their time and ability to raise money for Nova Roma. G.B. Agricola and T.G. Paulinus should be encouragee to pursue fund raising ideas and plans (with the approval of the Consuls). Of course, in Nova Roma we do not think less of a citizen because of wealth or work or macronational origin but only if they are louts, troublemakers, or bullies.
Each person contributes according to their means. The Consuls and other magistrates give freely of their time and wisdom but if a citizen wants to contribute to the public funds, I say that this is a noble thing. It cost nothing to honor those who serve the state by contribution of money, time, wisdom, or talent. It is not as though someone can buy honor or dignitias or pietas through ' mere filthy lucre' as these virtues come through public service given freely without thoughts of self-promotion and the good thoughts of one's fellow citizens.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:45:04 -0500

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Gaius Basilicatus Agricola. Salve.

I do not necessarily agree that dues need to be mandatory for all citizens. As Q. Fabius Maximus pointed out, one's taxes confer certain privileges on a citizen but those that choose not to pay taxes are not penalized but merely cannot take an active role in the leadership of NR.
A thought has occurred to me that if a tax-paying assidui wanted to sponsor another citizen or a member of their gens so that they could be assidui, this could be a way to raise money for the state. There are several citizens whose posts have impressed me with their thoughts and ideas but may not able to pay the (for their situation) high cost of taxation.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: NR Land Project
From:	cassius622@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:47:51 EST

Salvete,

Senator Audens, I understand your reasons for wishing to move discussion
about land to the Egressus list. However, Egressus was chartered to promote
NR to other Roman/Latin organizations, not for the obtaining of land, so I
hope you will forgive me for not continuing the conversation there. I'm
afraid I just confuse too easily! ;)

In a message dated 2/12/03 11:28:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jmath669642reng@webtv.net writes:

> The idea of a physical place is somewhat in a similar situation, in that
> no matter where it is specified to be, only a small portion of the
> micro-nation citizenship will ever get to experience it first hand.
> Those that do will not find a New-Rome, but rather in all liklihood
> nothing but a piece of land much like others surrounding it, with
> perhaps a flagpole, defaced by vandals. Nothing certainly comparable to
> the great sites of Roman Occupation in Europe and England.

Cassius respondit:
The benefit of land would not necessarily be in each of us getting to touch
it, nor would its intent be to rival the great ancient sites of Europe. It
would be a physical symbol of our intent to manifest something real and
lasting. A nation, or a community that owns nothing, and has no 'place' of
its own, will continue to seem unreal and temporary to many of us. Ownership
of land would provide us with a greater claim to serious intent and purpose.
It would also be the first time in over a thousand years that the ideal of
"Romanitas" was strong enough to own and manage a physical part of the world
in which we live.

>
> Senator Cassius:
>
> If all that you want at this time is a place from which to fly a flag,
> and take pictures of it, I can provide you with a place right now. I
> suspect that I can also arrange for anyone who wishes to involve
> themselves in such an effort, to schedule a Roman Event there, during
> the sumer months. This place is Fort Nathan Hale in New Haven, CT. It
> is an American Civil War Era sand fort built in 1863.

Cassius:
Senator Audens, your offer is most generous! However, the idea of land is
more than getting to fly a flag. I could always fly a flag in my back yard...
but since Nova Roma does not own that land, my back yard would not be a
physical manifestation of Roman existance. Fort Nathan Hale, while it sounds
delightful, (and a place I'd like to visit, no kidding!) would not be an
advancement of our existance unless perhaps we were legally able to own some
portion of it. If the Committee you speak of were to allow Nova Roma to be
part owners of the fort to some small extent, (in return for some sort of
assistance let's say) then I'd be all for it. Not only would NR have some
sort of manifestation, we'd also be helping to preserve a historical site. It
wouldn't be a Roman one, that's true... but involvement in one historical
site might lead to other, more Roman involvements.

Since you posted the topic of land to the main NR list, I'd also like to take
a quick opportunity to introduce an idea that has been posted already to the
'NRLandProject' list, and the 'NovaRomaProvinciae' list. While efforts to
figure out what land we need, and how to obtain that land continue, it might
also be worth our while to simply ask for land donations and see what
happens. We're a nonprofit organization and donations of land would be
tax-deductable donations in the US. While someone just giving us a piece of
land is a remote chance, it can't hurt to ask.

I have put up a prototype of a "land donation" webpage at:
<A HREF="http://www.juliansociety.org/nova_roma_land_project.htm">http://www.juliansociety.org/nova_roma_land_project.htm</A>

If this information were to be improved and made into a more professional
type of website, and put online at it's own URL, (www.landwanted.org for
instance) it could be linked into the Internet search engines, and linked to
from a wide variety of NR sites.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:00:57 -0500

>From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Sextus Apollonius Scipio. Salve.

While both of us serve the goals and ideas of the Illustrus Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, I must ask "what does the French income tax have to do with membership in a voluntary organization like Nova Roma?" Our credibility is not an issue as I believe most of the active citizens consider NR as a very credible organization. I understand that NR citizens from different macronations have a different view of what is fair in regards to taxes/contributions. However, we should all recognize that to be considered as a viable organization in the modern world, NR needs a well-designed e-newsletter that is offered to Roman related organizations (legions, Latin clubs, reenactment societies) and educational institutions. We also need projects that should our commitment to the goal of a space (or spaces) in the real world and preservation of ancient Roman sites to demonstrate our Romanitas.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Closed Gens?
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:45:13 -0800

Ave Publius Tarquitius et Omnes,

Interesting..I could have sworn my emails with Varus were on the Gens list...Oh well..imagine my surprise when I see them on the ML! <g>

As for being on the top of the page (in the Album Gentium)....you mean in Alphabetical...well you know...its much better than being on the bottom (a la Woolwine).

But its at least more equitable now, considering that previously it was sorted as Patricians first....Plebians on the bottom so look at the bright side, at least your only on the bottom of one list instead of two.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: William Rogers <wlr107@yahoo.com>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 5:00 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Closed Gens?

Well, it seems that being on the top of the page once again help my
friend Sulla! HEY! Why not do a reverse order on the gens list page
fo this year? We Tarquitii and others at the bottom aren't catching
any break! :-) *wink*

*mumbling* I wonder if I can hide those other gens....hhhhmmmmm*wink*

HEY! I AM JOKING ABOUT THE HIDING THING!!

Publius Tarquitius Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> I gotcha. <g>
>
> Well its not the first time that I have gotten gens members because
other gentes were closed. Hopefully, we (NR) would have finally
found a way to resolve closed gentes....(If NR implements the laws
that are on the books).
>
> I have stated before that I wont stop anyone from leaving Cornelia
to another gens....and there is an edict allowing that very thing
from happening. I just have sentimental ties to the ancient
Cornelians who were the most promient gens in ancient Rome. :)
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Caius Cornelius Varus <eq_germanicus@y...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 3:20 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Closed Gens?
>
>
> Hullo Pater...
> LOL, Just possibly looking to reconcile my SCAdian persona (Caius
> Livius Varus Germanicus) with my NR self. Maybe I can combine the
two
> somehow since the Cornelii have been pretty cool thus far.
>
>
> C. Cornelius Varus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
> <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Well there isnt yet, if you want to go about it honorably (IMHO
of
> course)....but after the Census most closed gentes will be
available.
> >
> > But if you really want to you can request the Praetors to
> intervene...though personally I do not care for that way. I
would
> suggest to wait for the Census to be conducted which SHOULD
happen in
> about 3 months.
> >
> > I am curious what gens are you looking at?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Closed Gens?
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:10:45 -0600 (CST)

Salve Senator,

> But its at least more equitable now, considering that previously it was sorted as
> Patricians first....Plebians on the bottom so look at the bright side, at least your
> only on the bottom of one list instead of two.

I've found and implemented a solution ... now, on odd-numbered days of the month,
the gentes are presented in alphabetical order; on even-numbered days, they are
presented in reverse alphabetical order. (On the application page only, not
the Album Civium).

Of course, gentes like Minucia and Octavia will be stuck in the middle every
day, but implementing even more bizarre sort orders would be confusing.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas <ksterne@bellsouth.net>" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:35:12 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "jlasalle" <jlasalle@s...> wrote:

>> (Snipped)...that there are no membership fees or dues here, only
voluntary taxes. That needs to change. $20.00 to $30.00 a year
should not be a problem...<<

Salve Gai Basilicate,

Your apparent frustration at the slow speed of Nova Roam's progress
is understandable. The lack of speed, however, is built into the
very make up of Nova Roma.

As Marcus Cassius pointed out, we have citizens all over the world
with different economic situations, cultural backgrounds, and varied
Roman interests. While $20 to $30 a year may sound like a small
amount to you or I living in Kansas City and Memphis in the USA, it
may be a different matter for a cive in Argentina where the economy
has been through much turmoil recently.

I can also understand how only $2,000 in the Treasury after 5 years
could seem almost pathetic to someone who was not here during the
process that lead to even that modest amount. The issue of
dues/taxation was one of the most contentious debates I have seen
here. Again, it is the diversity of our citizenship that made it
so. There were logistical questions about moving the money from
country to country (in some cases the cost of an international money
order was more than the $12 US), questions about where the money
should be /would be spent (USA vs. Provincea where raised), concerns
about defalcation, debates about different living standards in
different macronations, etc., etc., etc.

Although it can be a daunting task, I would recommend you scan the
List archives, especially the discussions leading up to our first
year of taxation in 2755. It would give you a lot of insight into
how Nova Roma must work. I my opinion and experience, the only way
to speed our progress through such questions as taxation, would be
to decrease our diversity - which, to my mind, is not desirable.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Ex-Consular Quaestor (i.e. tax collector) 2755

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Subject:	A Suggestion Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Closed Gens?
From:	casca@post.com
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:00:15 -0500

Salvate Cives,

This is only a suggestion, but might help.

The page listing the gens - I believe it is the album Civium - might be modified with a "Go To" block, where the user could input the desired gens name, e.g., Ursa, click on a button, and go directly to the listing for that gens.

As I said, it is only a suggestion.

Valete,

Gaius Ursus Casca
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:10:45 -0600 (CST)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Closed Gens?

> Salve Senator,
>
> > But its at least more equitable now, considering that previously it was sorted as
> > Patricians first....Plebians on the bottom so look at the bright side, at least your
> > only on the bottom of one list instead of two.
>
> I've found and implemented a solution ... now, on odd-numbered days of the month,
> the gentes are presented in alphabetical order; on even-numbered days, they are
> presented in reverse alphabetical order. (On the application page only, not
> the Album Civium).
>
> Of course, gentes like Minucia and Octavia will be stuck in the middle every
> day, but implementing even more bizarre sort orders would be confusing.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://konoko.net/~haase/
>

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:06:40 -0600

Salve Laenus

Slow is fine. Being methodical and careful is the hallmark of an excellent
organization. Some take my request for "a plan" as a general indictment of
Nova Roma, which it is not. When I came across the website, I was truly
excited and, as corny as it may sound, anxiously awaited approval of my
gens.

There must be a way to tax the general citizenship. If economic status of a
country is an impediment, then why not leave it to the Propraetors to set
the taxes in the provinces? Certainly they should be in tune with what their
populations can pay. The Senate can set goals for each province to meet, and
leave it to the propraetors to meet the goal.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Legate, Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Provincia
Nova Roma
-----Original Message-----
From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
[mailto:ksterne@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:35 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis

Salve Gai Basilicate,

Your apparent frustration at the slow speed of Nova Roam's progress
is understandable. The lack of speed, however, is built into the
very make up of Nova Roma.

As Marcus Cassius pointed out, we have citizens all over the world
with different economic situations, cultural backgrounds, and varied
Roman interests. While $20 to $30 a year may sound like a small
amount to you or I living in Kansas City and Memphis in the USA, it
may be a different matter for a cive in Argentina where the economy
has been through much turmoil recently.

I can also understand how only $2,000 in the Treasury after 5 years
could seem almost pathetic to someone who was not here during the
process that lead to even that modest amount. The issue of
dues/taxation was one of the most contentious debates I have seen
here. Again, it is the diversity of our citizenship that made it
so. There were logistical questions about moving the money from
country to country (in some cases the cost of an international money
order was more than the $12 US), questions about where the money
should be /would be spent (USA vs. Provincea where raised), concerns
about defalcation, debates about different living standards in
different macronations, etc., etc., etc.

Although it can be a daunting task, I would recommend you scan the
List archives, especially the discussions leading up to our first
year of taxation in 2755. It would give you a lot of insight into
how Nova Roma must work. I my opinion and experience, the only way
to speed our progress through such questions as taxation, would be
to decrease our diversity - which, to my mind, is not desirable.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Ex-Consular Quaestor (i.e. tax collector) 2755

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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?-An Opinion
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:17:55 -0600

Salve Uncle

I always enjoy reading your posts. And I welcome any opportunity raise money
for Nova Roma.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Legate, Campus Regio
America Medioccidentalis Superior Provincia
Nova Roma
-----Original Message-----
From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com [mailto:PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 8:34 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?-An Opinion

This theory has a basis in history. During the period of the Kings and
the Republic down to Marius, there were five classes of citizens based on
wealth. The first class male citizens were equipped as Grecian hoplite
(hoplite shield, armor, helmet, spear, sword) or as cavalry (equites); the
second class with Italic scutum, armor, helmet, spear, sword; the third
class as before without body armor or greaves; the fourth class as velites
armed with sword, javelins, shield, and helmet; and the fifth class as
slingers (possibly armed with a sword, axe, or dagger and using a pelta
shield). Now this division was made based on wealth and not by patrician
vs. plebian class; some patricians could be found in the second class while
there were plebians in the cavalry and first class.
In modern terms, it would reflect well on the Roman model of the wealthy
(or well-off) to give freely of their time and ability to raise money for
Nova Roma. G.B. Agricola and T.G. Paulinus should be encouragee to pursue
fund raising ideas and plans (with the approval of the Consuls). Of course,
in Nova Roma we do not think less of a citizen because of wealth or work or
macronational origin but only if they are louts, troublemakers, or bullies.
Each person contributes according to their means. The Consuls and other
magistrates give freely of their time and wisdom but if a citizen wants to
contribute to the public funds, I say that this is a noble thing. It cost
nothing to honor those who serve the state by contribution of money, time,
wisdom, or talent. It is not as though someone can buy honor or dignitias
or pietas through ' mere filthy lucre' as these virtues come through public
service given freely without thoughts of self-promotion and the good
thoughts of one's fellow citizens.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quo Vadis?
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:29:45 -0800 (PST)

--- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com wrote:
> From F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Sextus Apollonius Scipio. Salve.
>
> While both of us serve the goals and ideas of the Illustrus Caeso Fabius Quintilianus,
> I must ask "what does the French income tax have to do with membership in a voluntary
> organization like Nova Roma?"

Simply put, while macronations are exonerating their citizens from income tax, and
because NR is supposed to be a nation as well, why should we go against the stream?

> Our credibility is not an issue as I believe most of the
> active citizens consider NR as a very credible organization.

We will not achieve our goals if we stay inside NR without interacting with the
macroworld. As a nation, we have to build up credibility outside NR.

> citizens from different macronations have a different view of what is fair in regards
> to taxes/contributions. However, we should all recognize that to be considered as a
> viable organization in the modern world, NR needs a well-designed e-newsletter that is
> offered to Roman related organizations (legions, Latin clubs, reenactment societies)
> and educational institutions. We also need projects that should our commitment to the
> goal of a space (or spaces) in the real world and preservation of ancient Roman sites
> to demonstrate our Romanitas.

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Speaking English is apparently what kills you.
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:31:28 -0600

Here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know the
truth after all those conflicting medical studies.
- The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the
British or Americans.
- The French eat a lot of fat and also suffer fewer heart attacks than the
British or Americans.
- The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks
than the British or Americans.
- The Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and also suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.
- The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats and
suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans.
CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what
kills you.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
Scriba Curatoris Differum Lex Iuridicalis
Legate Major for Regio Campus
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Closed Gens?
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:47:12 -0500 (EST)

Censor Germanicus;

I applaud your efforts to make the lists just a little more variable.
Your valuable work in Nova Roma is much appreciated by myself, as well
as your obvious skills on the Web. I would wish that I had just a small
part of your understanding and skill in this area!!!!!!!

In relation to the Gens Minucia, please do not trouble yourself. The
Gens Minucia is a small but independent group of citizens, who are
pleased to think for themselves, and thier involvement in the affairs of
Nova Roma honors me greatly to the Paterfamilias of such. Such people
will find this Gens without prompting because they will search until
they do.

Wherever the Gens Minucia finds itself in the "lottery" of movement,
those who seek a place in Nova Roma where they can be comfortable and
independent of a binding sense of togetherness, will search out the Gens
Minucia according to thier abilities and needs. This Gens honors not
the great men and women of history, but rather a common soldier, whose
life was dedicated to Rome, and who served willingly as a soldier
standing in defene of his culture. It is this kind of service that I
know best and honor the most, as do those who are a part of this Gens.

Respectfully, and With a Great Pride in those who join me in our small
but effective family;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Paterfamiius Gens Minucia

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ludia Praesina
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:15:37 -0500 (EST)

Marcus Minucius Audens

--"The Green Hornet"

--Marcus Fulgor ("Flash) Gladius

--Tactics (1)

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Return to Personal E-Mails
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:24:43 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
>
>The universal package converter (same in all distros, as far as I know)
>is called “alien.“ Just do
>
>alien --to-rpm <package>
>
>as root, and Magic Will Happen. :)
>
Gratias tibi multe ago. There had to be something of the sort; it's not W*s trying to exclude everything else as much as possible. Now what can I do with Algol68? (Not much - but I see some companies still use Fortran77 and even Basic's an improvement of Fortran of any description. Come to think of it, Basic is a variant on Fortran).
>
>Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
>Anybody can err, but only the fool persists in his fault.
> -- Cicero, “Philippicae orationes“. Often quoted “errare humanum est,
> ignoscere divinum“ - to err is human, to forgive divine.
>
Et ut chaos totaliter fiat, computeri necest.

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Subject:	FW: Re: [Nova-Roma] Return to Personal E-Mails
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:32:54 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
>>
>>Sorry, but that's incorrect. Wind*ws does, in fact, overwrite the boot
>>partition - destructively, so that no trace of another OS's boot sector
>
>But Linux must too because I had a small disk going spare I couldn't get enough Linux on to make any use of but won't go go back to W!!! no matter how much I Fdisk about with it. It boots up as LI and then hangs. When it had a bit of Linux on there of course it was LILO. It's no great importance either way. Uses for a 400Meg disk are somewhat limited!
>
>>make both OSes available. As to the last, there's no such thing as a
>>ýsubpartition insideý; partitions are independent entities.
>>
>In a logical sense: Linux knows about Whitlows but not vice-versa so makes it ýnside'.
>
Caesariensis

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Subject:	FW: Re: [Nova-Roma] Return to Personal E-Mails
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:32:58 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
>>
>>Sorry, but that's incorrect. Wind*ws does, in fact, overwrite the boot
>>partition - destructively, so that no trace of another OS's boot sector
>
>But Linux must too because I had a small disk going spare I couldn't get enough Linux on to make any use of but won't go go back to W!!! no matter how much I Fdisk about with it. It boots up as LI and then hangs. When it had a bit of Linux on there of course it was LILO. It's no great importance either way. Uses for a 400Meg disk are somewhat limited!
>
>>make both OSes available. As to the last, there's no such thing as a
>>ýsubpartition insideý; partitions are independent entities.
>>
>In a logical sense: Linux knows about Whitlows but not vice-versa so makes it ýnside'.
>
Caesariensis

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Games
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:50:20 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : jmath669642reng@webtv.net
>
>My son gifted me with a CD featuring monstor battlers, and improbable
>disasters occuring every 30 seconds, but maybe my needs, are in a
>different world. One might say I suppose that I had “grown up“, but

You need to be an adult to afford the entire Dungeons & Dragons set of manuals and a computer yourself to calculate all the chances (as well as magic taking so much effort for so little return that no players ever keep to the rules or start at low level). That's what comes of trying to make it realistic.
I've often wondered about computerising those calculations but not the game iteself because that's where it goes wrong. Computers are not artificial intelligence. It works fine to draw battle lines up and the like with human players and it works fine for shoot-em-ups. It does not work for sophisticated interaction. It takes far too long and far too much effort to develop a genuinely intelligent game (both senses implied!) and having done so would not sell because the buying public wants SEUs and those who want sophistication are playing over the I/Net against other human beings on research systems that go back to the early 80s (Berkely Calif. PDP-11 & VAX MUD).
Computer games are great for things like traditional board games where even if it's chess, brute force simple analysis to four or five levels will usually present a serious challenge. Where reponses aren't fixed you find more intelligence playing with a kitten.

Caesariensis.

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Indo-European Languages-Response
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:18:36 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
>
>When the Indo-Europeans swept out of the area of modern Scandinavia about 10,000 years ago, their migrations slowly progressed

Question that. As you say later, it's inexplicable why they should turn West. It isn't if they were coming from central Asia in the first place! Also, there is a tradition that the Scandinavian gods were tribal leaders who led them from the Caucassus not long before classical times. How true that may be, I don't know. What does seem likely is that Hitler was half right in isolating the Teutons as racially distinct from Mediterranean and Indo-Parsees but dead wrong in calling them Aryan: whoever they were, they could not handle the Aryan language at all, either in pronunciation or in verbal grammar. (Nor can Latin). What that tells us, I don't know.

east to the Indus Valley. They were probably responsible for the destruction of the civilizations of Harappa and Modenjo-daro; which

Conventional but problematic. Those cities appear to have collapsed long before the take-over but we can't be sure if that happened because of their collapse or of how others continued. What is odd is that there is no legend of the conquest of India. But then there is little of the conquest of Greece either, save the legendary Amazon attack on Athens to recover Hippolyta from Theseus.
A very recent upset to conventional thinking (which the BJP is making the most of) questions whether the Aryians invaded or /came from/ India because of the River Saraswatii. Today, she is the Goddess of learning but traditionally she was also a great nourishing river and parts of the Vedas refer to her in this form but later as becoming ever shallower. It seems she has recently been discovered in the form of a fertile ribbon more or less where the river should be. The problem is that this river was gone by approx 2500BC and the Aryan invaders are scheduled for about 1800BC. There remains the possibility that the Vedas blend native tradition with Aryan, as does the Hindu religion. For instance, Harappan statuettes show all the contortions of Yoga (for Yaugas from root Yug - note Latin Iugum, Greek Zygon for believers that Y never stood for U), or that the infiltration was more gradual and lasted centuries. Or that the name refered to another river in Afghanistan.

Caesariensis.

were fairly advanced cultures for their time period. For no discernable reason, they then moved westward through Mesopotamia and came in contact with Egypt (ca. Rameses II) and Mycenaea (ca. post-Trojan War) sometime in the 13th century B.C. before moving through to modern Western Europe, the British Isles, and Ireland. These invaders were known as the Sun People or Horse People. Their behavior and culture were likely similar to the Scythians that ranged through southern Russia to northern Mesopotamia to Greece during the period of 1200-300 B.C. To paraphrase one of my teachers, the Scythians were not a nice group and did not play well with others.
>With the exception of the Basque, Ugrian, and Finnish languages, all other languages are descendants of Old Indo-European (aka Sanskrit). This includes Old Norse, Old German, Old Slavic, and the Q- and P-Goidelic tongues spoken by the Celts, Irish, etc. Latin is an Indo-European language that contains elements of Ancient Greek and e P-Goidelic languages along with unknown elements of Etruscan and Umbrian hill tongues. Old French (500-1000 AD) was a combination of Latin and Old German & Old Norse (with minor elements of P-Goidelic in Brittany and some Slavic influence secondary to the Hunnic period (350-500 AD) in the northwest); the northern portion of France was heavily influenced by the dialect of Old German found among the Franks while the South was more influenced by the Gothic language but Latin was still more influential. This results in the famous 'oui' in the north and 'oc' in the south. The dialect of Provence has more Latin influence while the area around Bordeaux has some elements of Middle English due to the long Anglo-Plantagenet presence in that region.
>Modern Italian is a much greater polyglot being a conglomeration of Latin, Byzantine Greek (in the south), Old German (dialects-Lombardic and Gothic), Middle German, and modern 19th century/20th century English. Historically, Italy was under many more foreign influences prior to unification in 1860 than France was during the period from 400-1600 AD.
>The professor is correct in that the southern French dialect is closer to Latin than the Parisian French dialect of the north. Italian has more debasement of the Latin tongue than French. All of the 'Old' languages--German, Norse, Goidelic, Slavic, Greek, Latin--are derived from Proto-Indo-European languages. Latin, Greek, German, and Goidelic are not derived from Proto-Slavic however but from Ancient Indo-European. It is very difficult for ancient language scholars to determine how much of the pre-Indo-European languages survived in areas outside of Basque and Finnish areas. Furthermore, some ancient languages like Harappan, Samnite, and Etruscan are untranslatable or unknown to modern scholars.
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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>
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Speaking English is apparently what kills you.
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:28:49 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : jlasalle <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>

>CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what
>kills you.
>
It's the climate and the puritanism!

Caesariensis.

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Subject:	Re: FW: Re: [Nova-Roma] Return to Personal E-Mails
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:44:24 -0500

On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 09:32:54PM +0000, me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> >From : Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
> >>
> >>Sorry, but that's incorrect. Wind*ws does, in fact, overwrite the boot
> >>partition - destructively, so that no trace of another OS's boot sector
> >
> >But Linux must too because I had a small disk going spare I couldn't
> >get enough Linux on to make any use of but won't go go back to W!!!

Sounds like your boot partition simply got corrupted; it's a common
result of trying to just delete Linux instead of uninstalling it. See
my article in Linux Gazette about how to fix it (only takes a few
seconds.)

<http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue63/okopnik.html>

> >no matter how much I Fdisk about with it. It boots up as LI and then
> >hangs. When it had a bit of Linux on there of course it was LILO.
> >It's no great importance either way. Uses for a 400Meg disk are
> >somewhat limited!

More than plenty for a Linux install with X-Wind*ws; in fact, there are
a couple of mini-distros (FloppyX, etc.) that manage to do that in two
floppies. The LNX-BBC project has a complete distro with X plus tons of
software on a 50MB mini-CD.

> >>make both OSes available. As to the last, there's no such thing as a
> >>?subpartition inside?; partitions are independent entities.
> >>
> >In a logical sense: Linux knows about Whitlows but not vice-versa so makes it ?nside'.

Linux can read the partitions for many different OSes; that doesn't put
any of them "inside" it. For that matter, if you use NFS/Coda/etc., they
don't even have to be on the same computer. Oh, and somebody wrote a
little tool that lets you read a Linux partition from Wind*ws - so even
that doesn't apply.

Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
...et praeterea censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.
(Cato Sr. After a journey to Carthage, the Roman senator concluded every speech
before the senate with this phrase, no matter the topic of discussion.)

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Indo-European Languages-Response
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es>" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 23:34:13 -0000

Salvete Quirites.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:

<<snipped>>

> When the Indo-Europeans swept out of the area of modern Scandinavia
> about 10,000 years ago,

A small correction, with your leave.

According to modern theories, the Indo-Europeans did not originate in
Scandinavia. The group of linguistically related peoples known today
as "Indo-Europeans" lived in what we call Southern Russia.

And Indo-European migrations did not begin 10,000 years ago. 4,000
years is probably closer to the truth.

<<snipped>>

> they then moved westward through Mesopotamia and came in contact
> with Egypt (ca. Rameses II) and Mycenaea (ca. post-Trojan War)

Many proofs suggest that the Homer's Achaeans where also Indo-
European; that means that IE peoples entered Greece *before* the
Trojan War, given that the warriors that besieged Troy spoke an IE
langauge.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Indo-European Languages-Response
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:38:15 -0800

Avete Omnes,

Does anyone have sources to back up any claim? I find both arguements interesting and would like to know where this information is coming from...so I can further read more about it.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 3:34 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Indo-European Languages-Response

Salvete Quirites.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:

<<snipped>>

> When the Indo-Europeans swept out of the area of modern Scandinavia
> about 10,000 years ago,

A small correction, with your leave.

According to modern theories, the Indo-Europeans did not originate in
Scandinavia. The group of linguistically related peoples known today
as "Indo-Europeans" lived in what we call Southern Russia.

And Indo-European migrations did not begin 10,000 years ago. 4,000
years is probably closer to the truth.

<<snipped>>

> they then moved westward through Mesopotamia and came in contact
> with Egypt (ca. Rameses II) and Mycenaea (ca. post-Trojan War)

Many proofs suggest that the Homer's Achaeans where also Indo-
European; that means that IE peoples entered Greece *before* the
Trojan War, given that the warriors that besieged Troy spoke an IE
langauge.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: FW: Re: [Nova-Roma] Return to Personal E-Mails
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:43:49 -0800 (PST)

--- Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 09:32:54PM +0000,
> me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From : Caius Minucius Scaevola
> <ben@callahans.org>
> > >>
> > >>Sorry, but that's incorrect. Wind*ws does, in
> fact, overwrite the boot
> > >>partition - destructively, so that no trace of
> another OS's boot sector
> > >
> > >But Linux must too because I had a small disk
> going spare I couldn't
> > >get enough Linux on to make any use of but won't
> go go back to W!!!
>
> Sounds like your boot partition simply got
> corrupted; it's a common
> result of trying to just delete Linux instead of
> uninstalling it. See
> my article in Linux Gazette about how to fix it
> (only takes a few
> seconds.)
>
> <http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue63/okopnik.html>
>
Microsoft's fdisk utility is a piece of crap. I Keep a
bootable floppy with DR DOS's fdisk utility on it.
Enter DR DOS's extended mode of fdisk with the command
fdisk/x and you can remove any OS's partition and
repair the MBR from interactive mode.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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