| Subject: |
RE: [Nova-Roma] A Formação da Cidade |
| From: |
"da silva josé manuel" <joriavlis@oninet.pt> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:57:35 -0000 |
|
muito obrigado pelo texto, é raro ver algo em português, por estas bandas :-)
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:11:45 -0800 |
|
They must have slipped by me with all of the extra tasks I had as Consul. Like trying to increase the authority of the Curule Aediles jurisdiction by giving them their historical role in supervising the marketplace. But my question still stands, Manius Constantinus. What justidictional authority gives the Aediles the ability to conduct investigations outside of the marketplace. If they cannot come up with a suitable answer to that I suggest the Praetors or Consuls to veto this edict.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 3:01 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations]
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Avete Omnes,
>
> What jurisdictional authority gives the Aediles to conduct
investigations outside of the marketplace? This is my first
question, while I am reviewing the remainder of this and the other
edicts. According to IV.A.4 of the Constitution I do not see how you
can grant yourselves such sweeping authority.
Well, first of all I would think that perhaps last year, when you was
the Iunior Consul, you had no time to read those Edicts published by
Honourable Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, who was Aedilis Curulis. Those
Edicts already stated such opportunity for the Aediles Curules, so
nothing has been changed.
Respectfully,
BENE VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium V de Ludorum Dignitate [Dignitasof the Ludi] |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:19:07 -0800 |
|
Avete Manius Constantius et Omnes,
----- Original Message -----
From: Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 3:43 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium V de Ludorum Dignitate [Dignitasof the Ludi]
AVE LVCI CORNELI SVLLA SENATOR
> I. The Ludi of Nova Roma are sacrosanct. As a
> consequence, during the Ludi:
>
> Sulla: As a non-Pagan, I have a question, who determines if the
games are Sacrosant? Wouldnt that be in the pervue of the College of
Pontiffs?
And as a non-Pagan I say that you could be right on this point. Let
the Pontifex Maximus tell whether the edict can be kept this way or
that word should be modified.
Sulla: So you agree that this is outside of the pervue of the Aediles. Thank you for your agreement.
> a. it is strictly prohibited to have harsh discussions
> of any kind on any official Forum
>
> Sulla: Who determines what is harsh discussions? Isnt this in
the pervue of the Praetors?
Of course! I couldn't agree more! The Praetors must say what is harsh
discussions. This Edictum just say that harsh discussions (according
to the Praetores' definition) are not allowed during the Ludi.
Sulla: Again, thank you for your agreement that this is outside of the pervue of the Aediles.
> b. it is strictly prohibited to bring an action
> against somebody
>
> Sulla: So you are preventing citizens from using the legal
system during this time?
For several days which shall be completely dedicated to the Ludi.
Enjoy them!
Sulla: I have a problem with this clause. If a citizen has been wronged then they should have every opportunity to seek a redress of greivances. Regardless if the games are on our not. Imagine for a moment that we have land....and we have a coliseum, and a riot breaks out....and people get hurt. Should they not have the ability to seek redress with the local Aedile who has sponsored the game. Granted my example is in the future. But I am certain we can come up with examples that can easily happen in the present.
> c. it is strictly prohibited to disturb the course of
> the Ludi (satire shall not be considered among
> disturbing elements) d. no trial of any kind can take
> place
>
> Sulla: Define disturb please.
Well, I don't think I would be good in tranlsating the definition of
the word "disturb" from Italian into English. However, that is. I
think you can imagine what could disturb the normal course of the
Ludi.
Sulla: My problem with the word "distrurb" is it is too subjective. What does that word mean in relation to the lex. Laws should be objective and not subjective. This wording is so vague that it can be abused.
> a. to officially require the disturbing factor to be
> immediately ceased through an Edictum.
>
> Sulla: I do not think you have the authority to do this. It is
the Praetors that moderate official forums, not Aediles. And if the
edicts regarding the subjects are obeyed you cannot overpower their
edict based on the legal precedence clause of the Constitution of
Nova Roma (Section I.B.)
It doesn't say "to expel an individual", "to issue a nota", "to put
under modaration", nor anything like that. It says: If you are
disturbing the Ludi the Curule Aedile tells you to stop, as the
Curule Aedile is in charge of their conduct.
However, I'm sure that a Curule Aedile will never act ignoring an
edict issued by a Praetor. Should this happen, the Praetor will veto
it, that's logical.
Sulla: I still think it oversteps the authority given to the Praetors. You are broadening your jurisdictional authority by interferring with the roles of the Praetor and their jurisdiction in moderating official Nova Roma forums.
> b. to officially ask to have one or more persons put
> under moderation on the official Fora of Nova Roma
> until the Ludi are concluded.
>
> Sulla: See my previous comment.
It says "to ask". It means that the Aedilis may ask that (of course,
to a Praetor, the only magistrate entitled to put an individual under
moderation). Just consider that it's nothing extraordinary: every
citizen could ask so, as it is just "asking".
Sulla: But your previous section does not make the distinction of asking. It states to officially require the disturbing factor to be immediately ceased through an edict. This is a conflict in your edict. Strike the above clause then.
> III. Should the Aedilis Curulis see fit, he shall be
> able to bring an action after the Ludi against any
> individual who seriously infringed the sacrosanct
> nature of the Ludi themselves, thus intending all
> those actions which interfere with their regular
> course and directly or indirectly cause a
> disturbation.
>
> Sulla: See my above concerns.
Again, that "sacrosanct". You could be right.
Sulla: Thank you for your agreement.
> Sulla: As a citizen, I would like to have this edict clarified.
Thank you.
_I_ thank you! A discussion on a serious matter can only be an
advantage for everybody!
Sulla: I agree completely.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
BENE VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] 10 reasons why YOU should join FACTIO ALBATA |
| From: |
"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:05:22 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes,
Here are ten reasons why YOU (yes, YOU) should join FACTIO ALBATA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factio_albata) and participate in the races with us!
1. Historically, Factio Albata is one of the oldest factions in ancient Rome.
2. We have supporters among the highest echelons of Nova Roma: Censor Octavius, for example, is a chariot sponsor and an ardent fan of the whites.
3. Nothing beats the "family feeling" in the stables of Factio Albata; every racer knows one another and many of them are sponsored by the same gens (Octavia). We are not an anonymous mass of people with nothing to bind them (such as Russata, for example).
4. We don't rely on numbers to win (such as Praesina, for example), but on intrinsic quality.
5. We develop and discuss tactics in group and are always prepared to help newbies.
6. You like the colour white! It has an immaculate freshness and at the same time a blinding strength.
7. Sponsoring a chariot is free, joining our mailing list is free, everything is free!
8. You want to be a member of a surprising faction, the rebellious small group against the great molochs of red and green.
9. We are to hold our own internal races to boost our team building and strategic thinking.
10. Factio Albata is associated with the season of winter. Right now, it's winter. What more do you need?
Valete bene!
Marcus Octavius Solaris
Dominus Factionis Albatae
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium V de Ludorum Dignitate [Dignitasof the Ludi] |
| From: |
"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:08:20 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
Some comments if I may:
>Of course! I couldn't agree more! The Praetors must say what is harsh
>discussions. This Edictum just say that harsh discussions (according
>to the Praetores' definition) are not allowed during the Ludi.
With respect, I would argue that the praetors are perfectly capable of moderating this list as they feel appropriate, irrespective of whether the games happen to be in progress. The Lex Octavia de Sermone explicitly places list moderation within the jurisdiction of our elected praetors. I believe that the aediles have no business here.
> c. it is strictly prohibited to disturb the course of
> the Ludi (satire shall not be considered among
> disturbing elements) d. no trial of any kind can take
> place
>
> Sulla: Define disturb please.
>Well, I don't think I would be good in tranlsating the definition of
>the word "disturb" from Italian into English. However, that is. I
>think you can imagine what could disturb the normal course of the
>Ludi.
Again, with respect, disturb is an extremely subjective word. It is insufficient to state that we can all 'imagine' what constitutes a disturbance. If this relates to posts made to the main list, then again this is the outside the jurisdiction of the aediles. However, it could be argued that an election or a meeting of the senate could constitute as disturbing the games. If this is the case then please indicate to me where the aediles have been given such sweeping powers to disrupt the daily business of Nova Roma to such an extent?
Satire? Why satire? I could imagine that certain forms of staire can be very disturbing to certain individuals at certain times. Certainly, one could be disruptive and disturbing and then state that their actions were satirical. Who is to state that it isn't.
These games can go on for ages, and one after the other. This seems to me to be a extremely poorly written edict. Almost an edict for an edicts sake. Further, I believe this edict goes way beyond the authority of the aedile. I ask that those responsible please withdraw and review.
Vale
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:27:36 -0000 |
|
Salvete
Again, some comments:
>V. Records of all investigations - even the most
>cursory - shall be kept by the Curule Aediles and
>their designated scribae. When a Curule Aedile
>relinquishes office that Aedile's confidential records
>of investigations shall be transferred into the
>custody of the Temple of Ceres, or such other archive
>as the Temple of Ceres shall designate, there to be
>retained for a period of not less than two years for
>investigations which did not lead to trial, and not
>less than five years for investigations which did lead
>to trial. These records are confidential, and may be
>released only to Curule magistrates engaged in their
>lawfully appointed duties. They may not be published
>save for such portions as become a matter of public
>record through being introduced as evidence in a trial
>or magisterial nonjudicial hearing.
Now you've lost me. Temple of Ceres? I wasn't aware that Nova Roma owned such a temple so that our records may be stored safely. Seriously, this is not a role playing game. There is no Temple of Ceres. These records will be stored on someones hard drive or some such. And for an extremely long time by the looks of it. Please say so.
>VII. Each Aedilis Curulis will have at his disposal a
>team of four Indagatores (detectives). Each team is
>led by a Centurio Indagator. The following rules shall
>be followed:
>a. the identities of the four Indagatores and of the
>Centurio Indagator are secret.
>b. the Aedilis Curulis know the identities of his four
>Indagatores and of the Centurio Indagator.
>c. the Centurio Indagator knows the identities of the
>four Indagatores.
>d. the four Indagatores know the identity of the
>Centurio Indagator.
>e. the four Indagatores do not know their respective
>identities.
So Nova roma is to have it's own secret police force now? Who appoints these people? Who are they accountable to? How is that accountability audited? Very difficult to do by nature of it's secrecy. Please, mechanisms such as this have extreme and far reaching implications. As I've stated before, this is not a role playing game where edicts such as this can be issued on a whim and a roll of the dice. I again ask for those repsonsible to withdraw and review.
Please communicate with our elected praetors. These are the people we elect to care for the legal authority of Nova Roma.
Vale
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] ONE reason to join the GREENs |
| From: |
Caius Curius Saturninus <c.curius@welho.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:52:47 +0200 |
|
Salvete,
I saw a message here which was lenghty and wordy about some minor
Ludi factio and "reasons" to join it. So maybe it is needed to
present a similar kind of message for the GREEN factio:
1. GREENs are the best
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina
So, you see, it's not at all that complicated!
Valete,
--
Caius Curius Saturninus
Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
e-mail: c.curius@welho.com
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] NO reason to join the GREENs |
| From: |
"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:04:12 +0100 |
|
Salvete Romani!
Romans! Will we tolerate this arrogance? Will we helplessy watch how the Greens win by sheer force and numbers rather than strategy and tactics? Will we stand by and see all the excitement drained from the circus by a massive moloch, corrupted in spirit and excessive in size?
Let's make a clean start: it is time to rise up against the tyranny of the Greens. Who is with us?
Join FACTIO ALBATA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factio_albata) !
Valete bene!
M. Octavius Solaris
DFA
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] GREEN who? |
| From: |
"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:14:41 +0100 |
|
Salve Solaris!
< Romans! Will we tolerate this arrogance?
No!!
<Will we helplessy watch how the Greens win by sheer force and numbers
rather than strategy and <tactics?
No again!
<Will we stand by and see all the excitement drained from the circus by a
massive moloch, <corrupted in spirit and excessive in size?
No No No!!
< Let's make a clean start: it is time to rise up against the tyranny of the
Greens.
Yes!
<<Join FACTIO ALBATA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factio_albata) !
Done!
But I noticed that if someone wants to join the Factio Albata, you have to
get rid of the "(" and the ")"
to reach the yahoogroup or you get the message 'no such group exists on
yahoo'. :-)
For Freedom and for Gaul !! (sorry I am quoting Vercingetorix there....)
Vale,
Diana Moravia
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:08:14 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Decimus Iunius Silanus"
> So Nova roma is to have it's own secret police force now? Who
>appoints these people? Who are they accountable to? How is that
>accountability audited? Very difficult to do by nature of it's
>secrecy.
I agree. Is this Nova Roma or Neue Dritte Reich? (New Third Reich
and my apologies to our Germanic citizens at no doubt butchering
their language.) I don't recall the Roman Republic having a secret
police, unless it was so secret that historians and archeologists can
find no evidence of it. I'm more disturbed that these edicts
granting the Aediles broad sweeping powers having the force of law
without a vote by the people in any Comitia. Since none of our
Aediles are Senators apparently without consulting the Senate.
Q. Cassius Calvus
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] reminder: SAVE ALBURNUS MAIOR!!!!! |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@yahoo.it>" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:58:54 -0000 |
|
§A gold mine threatens a great archaeological site§
A Canadian firm, Gabriel Resources, will open a gold, silver and
uranium mine which will destroy several important archaeological
sites in Romania. The choosen place for what will be the biggest
European opencast mine is Rosia Montana, the Roman Alburnus Maior, on
the Apuseni mountains.
The mining activity in this area is thousands of years old. Several
mines of the II century B.C. can still be partly travelled over.
Besides iron ores, Rosia Montana is famous in European archaeology
because of epigraphical evidence found there. Just two year ago, a
Frech-German team discovered funeral steles and a large number of
Roman altars with votive inscriptions.
The Canadian project even provides for the complete destruction of
the actual center (which will be re-built elsewhere...) with its
monuments (eight churches and nine graveyards) and its archaeological
strata.
Here they will settle one of the four shafts provided for.
The Rosia Montana valley is part of the national protected Property.
An international campaign is underway to save the ancient evidences
of that area. This campaign involves Rumanian archaeologists like
Gheorghe Lazarovici (Univesrity of Cluj), Marius Ciuta (University of
Alba Iulia), Sabin Luca (University of Sibiu). The mobilization
culminated with an appeal to the highest national authorities by 83
academics of the Academy of Economic Studies of the University of
Bucarest, in order to stop this operation. In fact, according to a
close examination, this project would not even provide the populace
with relevant economic advantages.
The World Bank has already announced, through the International
Finance Corporation (IFC), that they will not finance the project of
the Gabriel Resources: James Wohfensohn, the president of the World
Bank, intervened directly to block the loan.
The gold of this area of the Carpathians has been mined and traded in
the whole of Europe since prehistory. Trajan's column shows the Roman
occupation of the Apuseni mountains. It was a conquest which led to
Rome so much gold that its price was depressed for decades. Even with
this depreciated price the sheer amount of gold provided for the
financing of ambitious projects like the construction of the
amphitheatre in Verona.
The project of Gabriel Resources provides for the forced transfer of
2,000 people: most of them are actually employed in more than 700
farms. Production processes using cyanide, which has already
caused a lot of ecological disasters, and which are illegal in the
rest of Europe, are proposed. Just consider that about 196.4 million
tons of cyanide waste will be created. A real ecological predicament
is
looming, and unfortunately it would not be something new in Romania.
In fact, with the same mining process in another mine in Baia Mare,
water for 2,500,000 people was contaminated.
For further information go to http://www.rosiamontana.org
What we ask you is to simply sign this petition to the Government of
Romania: http://www.petitiononline.com/apuseni/petition.html
Please do that! It's very important! We must try to do our best to
assist in saving Alburnus Maior and avoiding this ecological
catastrophe!
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] reminder: CHARIOT RACE NOW!!!! Join Factio Praesina!!!!! |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@yahoo.it>" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:01:04 -0000 |
|
Citizens of Nova Roma,
That's really the first chariot race of the year! And it is available
to members of the Factio Praesina only, the GREEN team, the stronger
team of Nova Roma! (look at last year's results!)
You all are invited to join the Chariot Race of Factio Praesina! Just
become a member of our victorious factio subscribing our mailing list
at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina
The green race on the Circus wait for yours teams! It´s the GREEN
show!
The public waits for your chariots on the sand! You will receive a
nice prize and the recognition of the members of your Factio and the
whole citizenship!
After you joined our Mailing List you can finally send your
inscription to mcserapio@yahoo.it saying:
- Your Novaroman name
- Chariot name
- Driver Name
- Your Tactics. Choose among:
1 To hurry in the last laps
2 To pass the curves closely the "spina" of the circus.
3 To support a constant pace
4 To lash the rivals
5 To push the rivals to the wall of the circus
6 To hurry in the straight lines
Remember to write in subject line "Ludi Praesina"!!!
Send your chariot and fight for the glory of the victory!! Who will
be the green champion in 2756 AUC?
Be hurry! Inscriptions end on February 18th, next week!!!!
OPTIME VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Dominvs Factionis Praesinae
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Black Griffon Inn |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:54:48 -0000 |
|
On Friday, Merlinia Ambrosia Artori wrote:
> Well, tomorrow is the DAY!
And indeed it was. I was quite pleased to be there. It was a
wonderful event Merlina. Thank you, and all of those who helped
you to make it happen.
-- Marinus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:01:13 -0800 (PST) |
|
--- "quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com>"
<richmal@attbi.com> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Decimus Iunius
> Silanus"
> > So Nova roma is to have it's own secret police
> force now? Who
> >appoints these people? Who are they accountable to?
> How is that
> >accountability audited? Very difficult to do by
> nature of it's
> >secrecy.
>
> I agree. Is this Nova Roma or Neue Dritte Reich?
> (New Third Reich
> and my apologies to our Germanic citizens at no
> doubt butchering
> their language.) I don't recall the Roman Republic
> having a secret
> police, unless it was so secret that historians and
> archeologists can
> find no evidence of it. I'm more disturbed that
> these edicts
> granting the Aediles broad sweeping powers having
> the force of law
> without a vote by the people in any Comitia. Since
> none of our
> Aediles are Senators apparently without consulting
> the Senate.
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
Actually the Republic did have "Secrect Police" for
some brief periods in it's decline. They were quite
active under the Dictator L. Cornelius Sulla Felix and
the Second Triumvirate when proscriptions were being
enforced. Beyond that they were a feature of the
Imperial era.
=====
L. Sicinius Drusus
Roman Citizen
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:59:46 +0100 |
|
Salve Senator,
first of all thank you very much for your comments and your attenction to my
Edicta. BTW I agree the words of Illustrus Serapio, some of this edicta are
confirming old edicta published by Illustrus Fabius Quintilianus during the
last year when you was Consul.
> What jurisdictional authority gives the Aediles
> to conduct investigations outside of the marketplace?
> This is my first question, while I am reviewing the
> remainder of this and the other edicts.
Sorry, but I thing you have not ready with attenction my edictum. The
investigations will be only in Nova Roman marketplaces and about charges
between Nova Romans or between Nova Romans and associated to Nova Roma. I
haven't the power to investigate about macronational or external charges.
> According to IV.A.4 of the Constitution I do not see how you can grant
yourselves such sweeping authority.
The Costitution says me "To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester are
engaged in commerce, within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of
the Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equaestor to the
Censors." The Constitution says me what I have to do, not how I have to do.
Well, how I can maintain the venues and report any changes? Do I have a
passive Office not historically correct? I thing not and the investigations
are the way to check any change and SIGNAL (not command or imperiat)
mistakes to the Authorities (Censors).
In ancient Rome the Aediles had the duties to investigate the fair business
and there were citizens called Frumentariis serving the Magistrates as
"silent" investigators. I thing our edicta are historically correct.
However if it isn't, I invite the Illustrus Praetor to veto their (nothing
is perfect :-)
Vale bene
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:31:32 +0100 |
|
Salve Decimus Iunius Silanus
> Now you've lost me. Temple of Ceres? I wasn't aware that
> Nova Roma owned such a temple so that our records
> may be stored safely. Seriously, this is not a role playing game.
> There is no Temple of Ceres. These records will be
> stored on someones hard drive or some such.
> And for an extremely long time by the looks of it. Please say so.
I agree with you, Illustrus, Nova Roma is not a role playing game and we
can't "play" with our fair business. Nova Roma is a serious organization now
based on the money too. Who check our commerces? Following the Costitution
and the History the Curule Aedile do it.
About the Temple of Ceres maybe you haven't understood. It's clear and
logical that we have a Temple of Ceres but maybe you haven't read so well
the document. I have written: "or such other archive as the Temple of Ceres
shall designate". The creation and the management of this archive will be
published in a next Edictum where I'll create a web-archive protected and
cripted. The data base will be managed by the Curuli Aedili and by the
Authorities of Nova Roma.
Don't worry, we are not playing, we are working seriously!
>VII. Each Aedilis Curulis will have at his disposal a
>team of four Indagatores (detectives). Each team is
>led by a Centurio Indagator. The following rules shall
>be followed:
>a. the identities of the four Indagatores and of the
>Centurio Indagator are secret.
>b. the Aedilis Curulis know the identities of his four
>Indagatores and of the Centurio Indagator.
>c. the Centurio Indagator knows the identities of the
>four Indagatores.
>d. the four Indagatores know the identity of the
>Centurio Indagator.
>e. the four Indagatores do not know their respective
>identities.
> So Nova roma is to have it's own secret police force now?
Do you know what is a police force? In a dictionary I read: "Police Force:
Admistrative activity dedicated to saveguard the society and his members by
functions and duties of checking, suspicion and repression". Where you find
suspicion and repression in the Indagatores. And if you want understand, the
indagatores don't investigate about all the society, but only about the
commercial fields. The detectives haven't authority, they haven't power or
duties to judge, or value, or stop, or moderate, etc: they only help the
Aedile checking and signaling the commercial faults.
> Who appoints these people?
The Curule Aedile, they are assistants of the Aedile. Have you read the
Edictum?!
> Who are they accountable to?
To the Curule Aedile, have you read the Edictum?!
The archive of the files will be open to the Authorities of Nova Roma.
> How is that accountability audited? Very difficult to do by nature of it's
secrecy.
Privately to the Curule Aedile, they are secret and they are assistant of
this Magistrate. How I can check the the "changes of the marketplaces" in a
different way?
> Please, mechanisms such as this have extreme and far reaching
implications.
Why? How? Please, explain me.
> As I've stated before, this is not a role playing game
> where edicts such as this can be issued on a whim
> and a roll of the dice.
As I have said before, we're working seriously to grow Nova Roma, we're not
playing to a game.
> I again ask for those repsonsible to withdraw and review.
> Please communicate with our elected praetors.
> These are the people we elect to care for the legal authority of Nova
Roma.
I'm doing it, I'm talking with the Praetor about the Edicta.
My work is clear and serious and I'm under the evaluation and judgement of
the Res Publica. If I have mistaken I'm ready to corect my actions.
Thank you very much for you comments, Illustrus Decimus Iunius Silanus.
Vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] NO reason to join the GREENs |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:12:42 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salve Marcus Octavius,
I Can add my personal reason regarding the Color Green
to your reasons to avoid them. Around 25 Years ago I
was involved in Automoble Racing in the USA. No one
would race a green car if they could avoid it. It's
considered an unlucky color.
--- "M. Octavius Solaris"
<scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Salvete Romani!
> Romans! Will we tolerate this arrogance? Will we
> helplessy watch how the Greens win by sheer force
> and numbers rather than strategy and tactics? Will
> we stand by and see all the excitement drained from
> the circus by a massive moloch, corrupted in spirit
> and excessive in size?
>
> Let's make a clean start: it is time to rise up
> against the tyranny of the Greens. Who is with us?
>
> Join FACTIO ALBATA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factio_albata) !
>
> Valete bene!
> M. Octavius Solaris
> DFA
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
=====
L. Sicinius Drusus
Roman Citizen
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:21:41 +0100 |
|
Salve Senator Sulla,
I have found several your messages in the NR_Magistrates list sended to
Illustrus Quintilianus.
In this messages you agreed with the re-creation of the office of the Curule
Aedile in all its aspects supporting the Edicta IX - Fair Business
Practices, X - Law Enforcement and Prosecution, XI - Investigation of
Charges and Complaints by Quintilianus.
My edicta are the same of our Illustrus Consul and they changes for very
little differences (for example my "investigatores" are the same
"indagatores" of Quintilianus). If you have accepted and supported the old
edicta, why now you don't agree mine?
Sorry, just explanations and the question is sended to everybody in this
list.
vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium V de Ludorum Dignitate [Dignitasof the Ludi] |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:24:09 +0100 |
|
Salve Senator,
> Sulla: As a non-Pagan, I have a question, who determines if the games
> are Sacrosant? Wouldnt that be in the pervue of the College of Pontiffs?
I agree, the sacrosant nature of the Ludi is determinated by the Pontiffs.
But I know the College must publish the calendar of the nova roman
"sacrosant" Ludi in each year.
The Aediles plan the Festivals following the last pronunciation of the
College
and the calendar published in our official website.
So, I don't want decide what is Sacrosant in Nova Roma and I'll follow the
instructions of the
College. So I'm waiting for the comment of one of the our Pontiffs.
For the other asnwers read Serapio's messages
Vale bene
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:35:30 +0100 |
|
Salve Senator,
as I have said IMHO the Constitution says me what I have to do not how I
have to do. I thing the Investigatio about the Nova Roman marketplace is not
out of my jurusdiction because it's the way to check the commercial changes
and mistakes. But if my idea is un-correct the Consul and the Praetor will
veto me. I'm yet talking with their.
Sulla said:
They must have slipped by me with all of the extra tasks I had as Consul.
Like trying to increase the authority of the Curule Aediles jurisdiction by
giving them their historical role in supervising the marketplace. But my
question still stands, Manius Constantinus. What justidictional authority
gives the Aediles the ability to conduct investigations outside of the
marketplace. If they cannot come up with a suitable answer to that I
suggest the Praetors or Consuls to veto this edict.
Vale bene
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
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|
| Subject: |
R: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 459 |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:45:47 +0100 |
|
Salve Illustrus Decimus Iunius Silanus,
> With respect, I would argue that the praetors are perfectly capable of
moderating this list as they feel appropriate, irrespective of whether the
games happen to be in progress. The Lex > Octavia de Sermone explicitly
places list moderation within the jurisdiction of our elected praetors. I
believe that the aediles have no business here.
Illustrus, the Constitution, higher than the Lex Octavia, says:
"Aediles Curules (Curule Aedile). Two curule aediles shall be elected by the
comitia populi tributa to serve a term lasting one-year. They shall have the
following honors, powers, and obligations:
a. To hold Imperium;
b. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to see to the conduct of public
games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at public
religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public facilities
that the State should acquire, and to administer the law (such edicts being
binding upon themselves as well as others);"
In Ancient Rome the highest legal Authority of Res Publica during the Ludi
was the Curule Aedile organizing their. The Constitutions imperiat me to
conduct the Ludi and to ensure order at religious events. Following our
Religio, each Ludi should be religious events dedicated to a God. So I
should ensure the order during the Festivals according with the Praetor and
I should have several business here!
Have you readen the edicta by Quintilianus published in teh last year? They
are the same! Why you haven't stopped their?
> Again, with respect, disturb is an extremely subjective word.
> It is insufficient to state that we can all 'imagine' what
> constitutes a disturbance.
> If this relates to posts made to the main list, then again this
> is the outside the jurisdiction of the aediles.
Read my previous answer
> However, it could be argued that an election or a meeting
> of the senate could constitute as disturbing the games.
Ok, I agree if the Senate thing it's necessary.
> If this is the case then please indicate to me where the aediles
> have been given such sweeping powers to disrupt the daily
> business of Nova Roma to such an extent?
it's your personal and un-polite opinion withou explanation!
I don't agree and I'll follow only the opinion of the Praetor and of Consul
if they thing to veto my edicta.
> Satire? Why satire? I could imagine that certain forms of staire can be
very
> disturbing to certain individuals at certain times. Certainly, one could
be
> disruptive and disturbing and then state that their actions were
satirical.
> Who is to state that it isn't.
Why satire? Nobody have talked about satire!
Flaccus said: SATIRA TOTA NOSTRA EST because the satire was thought as an
art. The Satire is the only way to critic the Powers and a Nation without
satire isn't a democratical State. Satire is not a disturb! I thing a
disturb could be a sabotage of the Ludi, or a un-polite and not-useful
public attack, or a message with pornographical content, or a call to
violence, etc. They could be disturbs.
> These games can go on for ages, and one after the other. This seems to me
to
> be a extremely poorly written edict. Almost an edict for an edicts sake.
Please, explain me what you mean and why or give an example of "rich"
edictum about this issues. I don't understand you and the "poorly" is a real
subjective word!
> Further, I believe this edict goes way beyond the authority of the aedile.
I
> ask that those responsible please withdraw and review.
Thank you very much for your opinions, they are very useful, real!
Vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus
Vale
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 25
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:27:36 -0000
From: "Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations]
Salvete
Again, some comments:
>V. Records of all investigations - even the most
>cursory - shall be kept by the Curule Aediles and
>their designated scribae. When a Curule Aedile
>relinquishes office that Aedile's confidential records
>of investigations shall be transferred into the
>custody of the Temple of Ceres, or such other archive
>as the Temple of Ceres shall designate, there to be
>retained for a period of not less than two years for
>investigations which did not lead to trial, and not
>less than five years for investigations which did lead
>to trial. These records are confidential, and may be
>released only to Curule magistrates engaged in their
>lawfully appointed duties. They may not be published
>save for such portions as become a matter of public
>record through being introduced as evidence in a trial
>or magisterial nonjudicial hearing.
Now you've lost me. Temple of Ceres? I wasn't aware that Nova Roma owned
such a temple so that our records may be stored safely. Seriously, this is
not a role playing game. There is no Temple of Ceres. These records will be
stored on someones hard drive or some such. And for an extremely long time
by the looks of it. Please say so.
>VII. Each Aedilis Curulis will have at his disposal a
>team of four Indagatores (detectives). Each team is
>led by a Centurio Indagator. The following rules shall
>be followed:
>a. the identities of the four Indagatores and of the
>Centurio Indagator are secret.
>b. the Aedilis Curulis know the identities of his four
>Indagatores and of the Centurio Indagator.
>c. the Centurio Indagator knows the identities of the
>four Indagatores.
>d. the four Indagatores know the identity of the
>Centurio Indagator.
>e. the four Indagatores do not know their respective
>identities.
So Nova roma is to have it's own secret police force now? Who appoints these
people? Who are they accountable to? How is that accountability audited?
Very difficult to do by nature of it's secrecy. Please, mechanisms such as
this have extreme and far reaching implications. As I've stated before, this
is not a role playing game where edicts such as this can be issued on a whim
and a roll of the dice. I again ask for those repsonsible to withdraw and
review.
Please communicate with our elected praetors. These are the people we elect
to care for the legal authority of Nova Roma.
Vale
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:04:48 -0000 |
|
Salve Francisce Apule, Curule Aedile.
I can assure you that I read your edicts, most thoroughly. I should not venture to voice my concerns had I not done so. You are implementing secret investigative procedures with little or no accountability to the senate or people of Nova Roma. I believe that it is inappropriate that the accountability trail of such a secretive process ends with the Curule Aediles. You are instituting a system that is most certainly open to abuse.
Vale
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] RUSSATA |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:06:22 -0000 |
|
RUSSATA, the only answer to the Praesina!
RUSSATA, the only heros!
RUSSATA, the only Factio!
Join FACTIO RUSSATA at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/russata and
http://aediles.novaroma.org/russata/
RUSSATA ... RA RA RA
RUSSATA ... RA RA RA
RUSSATA ... RA RA RA
RUSSATA ... RA RA RA
Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 459 |
| From: |
"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:15:16 -0000 |
|
Salve,
Please do not take my criticism of your edicts personally. I merely voice my concerns. I apologise if you feel the tone of my posts is harsh.
>Why satire? Nobody have talked about satire!
I mention satire solely because it is labeled in your edict as not constituting a disturbance. I was curious as to why satire was singled out?
Vale
Decimus Iunius Silanus.
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:13:18 -0000 |
|
Salve Decimus Iunius Silanus,
I don't agree with you, your comments to my answers show you aren't
reading their and my edicta and I'm sad for this.
As I have said, the results of the Investigationis will be archives
in a web data base. The results will be open and accountable to teh
follow Istitutions and Magistrates:
- Senate
- Consuls
- Prateors
- Curulis Aedilis
I thing this Istitutions and Magistrates rapresent Nova Roma and the
population.
How I can abuse to the job of the Investigatores if the results are
open to the higher Offices of teh Res Publica? Do you not thing this
Offices will check if I have abused?
Please, explain me.
Vale
F. Apulsu Caesar
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Decimus Iunius Silanus"
<danedwardsuk@y...> wrote:
> Salve Francisce Apule, Curule Aedile.
>
> I can assure you that I read your edicts, most thoroughly. I should
not venture to voice my concerns had I not done so. You are
implementing secret investigative procedures with little or no
accountability to the senate or people of Nova Roma. I believe that
it is inappropriate that the accountability trail of such a secretive
process ends with the Curule Aediles. You are instituting a system
that is most certainly open to abuse.
>
> Vale
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 459 |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:21:30 -0000 |
|
Salve Decimus Iunius Silanus,
> Please do not take my criticism of your edicts personally. I merely
voice my concerns. I apologise if you feel the tone of my posts is
harsh.
Thank you very much for this explanation, I have readen messages too
un-polite and hard. But now I understand you and as I have written I
thing the good critics are even useful and they are the "columns" of
a democratic group.
> I mention satire solely because it is labeled in your edict as not
constituting a disturbance. I was curious as to why satire was
singled out?
Ok.
Vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>" <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:32:25 -0000 |
|
A short comment here while I take a break from shoveling snow.
As noted at the bottom of each of the four edicta published by
Franciscus Apulus Caesar yesterday, these are all *joint* edicta
which I fully endorse. They are based on similar edicta that last
year's Senior Curule Aedile, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, published.
The edicta as published represent the end product of much iteration
and negotiation between Caesar and myself. I fully support and
endorse these edicta, and indeed they are mine as much as they are
his.
--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:34:24 -0800 |
|
Ave Aedile
You need to spell it out that your edict only carries JUST to the marketplace. Anything outside of the marketplace violates the Jursidictional authority of the Curule Aediles, based upon the answer you have given below.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 6:59 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations]
Salve Senator,
first of all thank you very much for your comments and your attenction to my
Edicta. BTW I agree the words of Illustrus Serapio, some of this edicta are
confirming old edicta published by Illustrus Fabius Quintilianus during the
last year when you was Consul.
> What jurisdictional authority gives the Aediles
> to conduct investigations outside of the marketplace?
> This is my first question, while I am reviewing the
> remainder of this and the other edicts.
Sorry, but I thing you have not ready with attenction my edictum. The
investigations will be only in Nova Roman marketplaces and about charges
between Nova Romans or between Nova Romans and associated to Nova Roma. I
haven't the power to investigate about macronational or external charges.
> According to IV.A.4 of the Constitution I do not see how you can grant
yourselves such sweeping authority.
The Costitution says me "To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester are
engaged in commerce, within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of
the Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equaestor to the
Censors." The Constitution says me what I have to do, not how I have to do.
Well, how I can maintain the venues and report any changes? Do I have a
passive Office not historically correct? I thing not and the investigations
are the way to check any change and SIGNAL (not command or imperiat)
mistakes to the Authorities (Censors).
In ancient Rome the Aediles had the duties to investigate the fair business
and there were citizens called Frumentariis serving the Magistrates as
"silent" investigators. I thing our edicta are historically correct.
However if it isn't, I invite the Illustrus Praetor to veto their (nothing
is perfect :-)
Vale bene
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:35:34 -0800 |
|
Ave,
Because your edicts as written go beyond the scope of the marketplace. If you limit your edicts scope to just the marketplace I will have no problem supporting it.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:21 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium
Salve Senator Sulla,
I have found several your messages in the NR_Magistrates list sended to
Illustrus Quintilianus.
In this messages you agreed with the re-creation of the office of the Curule
Aedile in all its aspects supporting the Edicta IX - Fair Business
Practices, X - Law Enforcement and Prosecution, XI - Investigation of
Charges and Complaints by Quintilianus.
My edicta are the same of our Illustrus Consul and they changes for very
little differences (for example my "investigatores" are the same
"indagatores" of Quintilianus). If you have accepted and supported the old
edicta, why now you don't agree mine?
Sorry, just explanations and the question is sended to everybody in this
list.
vale
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium V de Ludorum Dignitate [Dignitasof the Ludi] |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:36:36 -0800 |
|
Ave,
Since there is areas that are not clear, please withdraw your edicts til you are able to properly draft them with input from all respected parties.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:24 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium V de Ludorum Dignitate [Dignitasof the Ludi]
Salve Senator,
> Sulla: As a non-Pagan, I have a question, who determines if the games
> are Sacrosant? Wouldnt that be in the pervue of the College of Pontiffs?
I agree, the sacrosant nature of the Ludi is determinated by the Pontiffs.
But I know the College must publish the calendar of the nova roman
"sacrosant" Ludi in each year.
The Aediles plan the Festivals following the last pronunciation of the
College
and the calendar published in our official website.
So, I don't want decide what is Sacrosant in Nova Roma and I'll follow the
instructions of the
College. So I'm waiting for the comment of one of the our Pontiffs.
For the other asnwers read Serapio's messages
Vale bene
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:38:47 -0800 |
|
Ave,
The edicts I saw last year from Caeso Fabius specifically dealt with the marketplace. Caseo and I had numerous discussions about those edicts. The problem I have and have mentioned in this list is that only one of the 4 edicts, iirc, gave a jurisdictional boundry of the Macellum (marketplace) the remaining three did not. Hence my objection and questioning the jurisdictional boundry that you are trying to set a precedent for.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 8:35 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Re: Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations]
Salve Senator,
as I have said IMHO the Constitution says me what I have to do not how I
have to do. I thing the Investigatio about the Nova Roman marketplace is not
out of my jurusdiction because it's the way to check the commercial changes
and mistakes. But if my idea is un-correct the Consul and the Praetor will
veto me. I'm yet talking with their.
Sulla said:
They must have slipped by me with all of the extra tasks I had as Consul.
Like trying to increase the authority of the Curule Aediles jurisdiction by
giving them their historical role in supervising the marketplace. But my
question still stands, Manius Constantinus. What justidictional authority
gives the Aediles the ability to conduct investigations outside of the
marketplace. If they cannot come up with a suitable answer to that I
suggest the Praetors or Consuls to veto this edict.
Vale bene
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
-------------------------------------------
Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Accensus Consulis Quintilianis
Scriba Curatoris Araneum
-------------------------------------------
Provincia Italia - http://italia.novaroma.org
Cohors Aedilis F. Apulus Caesar - http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus
Paterfamilias Gens Apula - www.gensapula.too.it
Academia Italica - http://italia.novaroma.org/academiaitalica
Yahoo Messanger: fapulus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:42:14 -0800 |
|
Ave Aedile Gn. Equitius,
I understand your comments, but I certainly hope that either the Praetors or the Consuls excerise their veto in regards to these uncomplete and precedent setting edicts. These edicts are just not fully drafted, in that some content is purely subjective and can be abused, and ulitmately these edicts dramatically increase the powers of the Curule Aedile outside of the scope of the powers given to it by the Constitution of Nova Roma.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <equitius_marinus@yahoo.com>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Aedilicium
A short comment here while I take a break from shoveling snow.
As noted at the bottom of each of the four edicta published by
Franciscus Apulus Caesar yesterday, these are all *joint* edicta
which I fully endorse. They are based on similar edicta that last
year's Senior Curule Aedile, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, published.
The edicta as published represent the end product of much iteration
and negotiation between Caesar and myself. I fully support and
endorse these edicta, and indeed they are mine as much as they are
his.
--
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Edictum Aedilicium VI de Investigationibus [Investigations] |
| From: |
"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:05:47 +0100 |
|
Salve,
I have not read through any of the many replies yet, so I hope that I am not
repeating what anyone else has already asked.
Before I start, I am personally very fond of F Apulus and G Equitius, and so
my questions below are not meant as an attack, but as just that: questions.
I admit openly here that I am very confused and a bit scared by this edict.
<I. As Curule magistrates of Nova Roma, the Aediles
<Curules may be approached by any person with a
<complaint or charge of wrongdoing by a citizen or
<associate or guest of Nova Roma, on matters falling
<within the purview of the Aediles Curules. Such
<charges must be examined and investigated to establish
<the facts and circumstances surrounding the matter.
II, III have been snipped for brevity's sake
To my knowledge, this doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of the Curule
Aediles.
<IV. When investigation shows that an offense has
<occurred, the Curule Aedile who initiated the
<investigation shall exercise invocatio to call the
<accused to justice. The manner in which justice is
<then served shall be as declared in separate edicta
<and other laws of Nova Roma.
I thought that it is the comitia centuriata, the comitia plebis tributa or
the comitia populi tributa that tries cases if one is necessary.
<V. Records of all investigations - even the most
<cursory - shall be kept by the Curule Aediles and
<their designated scribae. When a Curule Aedile
<relinquishes office that Aedile's confidential records
<of investigations shall be transferred into the
<custody of the Temple of Ceres, or such other archive
<as the Temple of Ceres shall designate,
I'm sorry but what/where is the Temple of Ceres? Is it the Roman name of our
main database?
<VII. Each Aedilis Curulis will have at his disposal a
<team of four Indagatores (detectives). Each team is
<led by a Centurio Indagator. The following rules shall
<be followed:
<a. the identities of the four Indagatores and of the
<Centurio Indagator are secret.
<b. the Aedilis Curulis know the identities of his four
<Indagatores and of the Centurio Indagator.
<c. the Centurio Indagator knows the identities of the
<four Indagatores.
<d. the four Indagatores know the identity of the
<Centurio Indagator.
<e. the four Indagatores do not know their respective
<identities.
I find the above a bit scary. Does this mean that if I am sending friendly
emails offlist to someone that they can really be a secret detective trying
to catch me at something sneaky?
And I will be honest in saying that I do not believe that this edict, as it
is written, falls under the jurisdiction of a Curule Aedile whom I thought
handled the games and ensured the public order at religious events (see
below).
Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Aediles Curules (Curule Aedile). Two curule aediles shall be elected by the
comitia populi tributa to serve a term lasting one-year. They shall have the
following honors, powers, and obligations:
1.. To hold Imperium;
2.. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to see to the conduct of
public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at public
religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public facilities
that the State should acquire, and to administer the law (such edicts being
binding upon themselves as well as others);
3.. To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or plebeian)
or magistrate of lesser authority;
4.. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and other
tasks, as he shall see fit.
5.. To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester are engaged in
commerce, within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of the Curule
Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equaestor to the Censors.
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| Subject: |
RE: [Nova-Roma] Edictum Aedilicium V |
| From: |
"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:21:00 +0100 |
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Salvete,
< a. it is strictly prohibited to have harsh discussions
< of any kind on any official Forum
Isn't the main forum under the jursidiction of the Praetores?
And 'harsh' is a vague word.
c. it is strictly prohibited to disturb the course of
the Ludi (satire shall not be considered among
disturbing elements)
Again, 'disturb' is a bit vague too.
For the rest, my only comment is this: I thought that the Ludi were supposed
to be fun. With such a long list of rules, won't it pretty much stop people
from participating in the Ludi because they are worried about saying
something 'disturbing' or 'harsh' and having the Curule Aediles take action
against them?
I don't know, but I think that you gentlemen are being a bit strict. And is
such strictness really necessary?
Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Make the Factio Veneta (Blue) the most powerful of Nova Roma!!!. |
| From: |
"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:41:58 -0300 |
|
Salvete omnes quirites.
Factio veneta (Blue)continues with the recruitment of new members. Be free to subscribe at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta .
Remember that you can only belong to one factio.
Make the Factio veneta be the most powerfull of Nova Roma!!. Join us!!
La facción Veneta (azul) continúa con el reclutamiento de nuevos miembros. Siéntanse libres para suscribirse a : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta . Recuerden que sólo pueden pertenecer a una facción.
Hagan que la factio veneta sea la más poderosa de Nova Roma!!!
Bene valete
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Senator
Tribunus Plebis
Dominus Factionis Veneta
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae
http://argentina.novaroma.org
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta
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| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] edicts |
| From: |
"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be> |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:05:13 +0100 |
|
Salvete Aediles Curules,
Ok, I've just finished reading through all of the replies and now I see that
you meant your edicts only to apply in the marketplace. If that is what you
meant, then I'd like to suggest that Marinus as an English speaker amend the
edicts to make it clear. In their present state, parts of the 4 edicts make
it sound as if you 2 gentlemen want to have your own secret detectives and
become a police force ready to punish the citizenry at a moments notice. I'm
glad this isn't what you intend because that certainly sounds
unconstitutional to me!
As far as the maketplace goes and the Ludi go, that is certainly your
jurisdiction! But since there is no real marketplace and a very slight
amount of commerce going on in the name of Nova Roma, I still have my doubts
as to whether such strict rules are necessary to govern it. And I think that
you made so many rules to the Ludi that you'll scare/have scared everyone
away. That said, that is your piece of the pie and up to you 2 Curule
Aediles to decide how to run it!
Looking forward to your response,
Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] NO reason to join the GREENs |
| From: |
me-in-@disguise.co.uk |
| Date: |
Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:55:05 +0000 (GMT) |
|
-----Original Message-----
>From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
>I Can add my personal reason regarding the Color Green
>to your reasons to avoid them. Around 25 Years ago I
>was involved in Automoble Racing in the USA. No one
>would race a green car if they could avoid it. It's
>considered an unlucky color.
>
That must explain a lot about British motor racing.....
Caesariensis.
"God damn Saddam but don't Bushwack Iraq"
--
Personalised email by http://another.com
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