| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Anti-Americanism and a reminder |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 00:43:41 -0000 |
|
Salve,
Just a reminder that Nova Roma is incorporated in the State of Maine
which is part of the United States. Before posting about how
horrible America is, Nova Romans should also realize that no matter
what macro-nation they live in they are members of an American
corporation and in some cases members of its Board of Directors and
hold high offices within that organization. If one hates America
then I must honestly ask, why be a member of an American corporation?
Vale,
Q. Cassius Calvus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Anti-Americanism and a reminder |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Mar 2003 19:23:49 -0600 (CST) |
|
> and in some cases members of its Board of Directors and
> hold high offices within that organization.
Not all American members of that Board consider the current policies
of the US government to be acceptable.
> If one hates America then I must honestly ask, why be a
> member of an American corporation?
One may hate the Bush regime without hating America.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Anti-Americanism and a reminder |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@novaroma.org> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Mar 2003 19:41:03 -0600 |
|
Salvete Quinte Calve omnesque
> If one hates America then I must honestly ask, why be a
> member of an American corporation?
While Nova Roma is incorporated in the USA, it is not a corporation
dedicated to Americanism or promoting the United States. It would,
therefore, be quite possible to hate the US--though I haven't seen much
evidence of such hate on the part of any Nova Roman civis--yet be a
member of Nova Roma out of a love of Romanitas.
Note that even harsh criticism of US policies and the various wrongs
that the US has committed over the course of its history--even if those
wrongs are only controversially so--does not necessarily equate to a
hatred of the US or its citizens.
It was for these reasons, among others, that my collega and I declared
Nova Roma to be neutral with regard to the current war. Despite its
being incorporated in the USA, Nova Roma does not take any position on
the subject and remains open equally to those who disagree and those who
support the war.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder |
| From: |
Pipar - Steven <catamount_grange@inwave.com> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Mar 2003 20:10:11 -0600 |
|
Salvete,
If I may?
I love my home country, the United States of America. I wore the uniform of her armed services for
a total of 13 !/2 years.
In some branches of my family I have fourteen generations buried in her soil (my earliest European
ancestors came here in the 1640's).
I ask that no one else love her, save my fellow citizens. One can, very well, seek to correct that
which one thinks is wrong in what one loves.
As to non citizens of the USA, my best wishes for your individual opinions as outsiders to our
macronation.
Not all who criticize my home country are her enemies.
Not all who profess agreement are her friends.
All the macronations of our Cives have done deeds in which they can take pride.
All the macronations of our Cives have done deeds in which they can take shame.
Such is the life of nations.
But, we here in Nova Roma are different from our fellow macro-citizens...
We are seeking to BUILD a Republic based on that which is best in Roma Antiqua, with a spice
composed of that which is best in our current era.
Onward to the Work, is my admonition.
And...
Please remember...
Americans are you...
>From every nation...
We are your children...
--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Civis Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Do that which is right for family and community,
with wisdom, generosity and personal honor,
being mindful of kinlore, truth and freedom.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Anti-Americanism and a reminder |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:44:05 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salvete Quirites,
I Make no secrect of the fact that I support the
removal of the present regime in Iraq, but in my case
this isn't a matter of blindly supporting the policies
of the United States Government. Over 18 years ago I
was sent to the Persian Gulf for the first time as
part a mission that included gathering information on
the war that was being fought between Iran and Iraq.
At that time the United States was far more hostile to
the Iranian government than to the Iraqi government.
After seeing how the Iraqi Ba'athist regime fought
that war, and how it maintained order within the
nation I became a proponant of the removal of that
regime by any means nessacary. As a general rule I'm
not a proponant of the United States involving herself
in overseas adventures execpt under extraordinay
circumstances. In my case it's a matter of the United
States government finally agreeing to a postion that I
have held for over 18 years, that the people of Iraq
should be liberated from a regime that I consider
totally abhorant. That is a personal viewpoint, that
has no effect on my views of Nova Roma.
Nova Roma's Legal status as an "American Corparation"
is no more than a technial detail. I Do not consider
it an "American Corparation" but an international
organization that happens to be incorparated in the
United States. If that technial detail becomes a
danger to Nova Roma goals, then I will do my duty as a
Senator of this Micronation, and as a member of it's
Board of Directors and consider reincorparating
outside the United States.
L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator
--- quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Just a reminder that Nova Roma is incorporated in
> the State of Maine
> which is part of the United States. Before posting
> about how
> horrible America is, Nova Romans should also realize
> that no matter
> what macro-nation they live in they are members of
> an American
> corporation and in some cases members of its Board
> of Directors and
> hold high offices within that organization. If one
> hates America
> then I must honestly ask, why be a member of an
> American corporation?
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Anti-Americanism and a reminder |
| From: |
Gnaeus Marius <gnmariusasia@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Fri, 21 Mar 2003 19:48:05 -0800 (PST) |
|
>>
Salvete omnes,
Well said, Senator!
Gnaeus Marius Asiaticus
Cives Roma
>>
>
--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I Make no secrect of the fact that I support the
> removal of the present regime in Iraq, but in my
> case this isn't a matter of blindly supporting the
> policies
> of the United States Government. Over 18 years ago I
> was sent to the Persian Gulf for the first time as
> part a mission that included gathering information
on
> the war that was being fought between Iran and Iraq.
> At that time the United States was far more hostile
to
> the Iranian government than to the Iraqi government.
> After seeing how the Iraqi Ba'athist regime fought
> that war, and how it maintained order within the
> nation I became a proponant of the removal of that
> regime by any means nessacary. As a general rule I'm
> not a proponant of the United States involving
herself
> in overseas adventures execpt under extraordinay
> circumstances. In my case it's a matter of the
> United
> States government finally agreeing to a postion that
> I have held for over 18 years, that the people of
Iraq
> should be liberated from a regime that I consider
> totally abhorant. That is a personal viewpoint, that
> has no effect on my views of Nova Roma.
>
> Nova Roma's Legal status as an "American
Corparation"
> is no more than a technial detail. I Do not consider
> it an "American Corparation" but an international
> organization that happens to be incorparated in the
> United States. If that technial detail becomes a
> danger to Nova Roma goals, then I will do my duty as
> a Senator of this Micronation, and as a member of
it's
> Board of Directors and consider reincorparating
> outside the United States.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Senator
>
> --- quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com> wrote:
> > Salve,
> >
> > Just a reminder that Nova Roma is incorporated in
> > the State of Maine
> > which is part of the United States. Before posting
> > about how
> > horrible America is, Nova Romans should also
realize
> > that no matter
> > what macro-nation they live in they are members of
> > an American
> > corporation and in some cases members of its Board
> > of Directors and
> > hold high offices within that organization. If one
> > hates America
> > then I must honestly ask, why be a member of an
> > American corporation?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
> >
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 04:57:45 -0000 |
|
Salve,
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pipar - Steven
<catamount_grange@i...> wrote:
> In some branches of my family I have fourteen generations buried in
her soil (my earliest European
> ancestors came here in the 1640's).
>
On my father's side of the family his mother's ancestors were already
here when the Europeans arrived.
> But, we here in Nova Roma are different from our fellow macro-
citizens...
>
> We are seeking to BUILD a Republic based on that which is best in
Roma Antiqua, with a spice
> composed of that which is best in our current era.
>
> Onward to the Work, is my admonition.
Thank you, Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator, you're one of the few that
got what I was saying.
Vale,
Q. Cassius Calvus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder |
| From: |
"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 05:05:54 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Fortunatus <labienus@n...> wrote:
> Salvete Quinte Calve omnesque
>
> > If one hates America then I must honestly ask, why be a
> > member of an American corporation?
>
> While Nova Roma is incorporated in the USA, it is not a corporation
> dedicated to Americanism or promoting the United States. It would,
> therefore, be quite possible to hate the US--though I haven't seen
much
> evidence of such hate on the part of any Nova Roman civis--yet be a
> member of Nova Roma out of a love of Romanitas.
Salve honored Consul,
My exact point, honored Consul. Nova Roma's purpose is to neither
promote Americanism nor to promote anti-Americanism it is to promote
Romanitas. If ones agenda is to promote anti-Americanism (there is a
difference between dissent and anti-Americanism) then it is at least
in my opinion hypocritical to do so through an organization chartered
in America.
Vale,
Q. Cassius Calvus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Anti-Americanism and a reminder |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> |
| Date: |
22 Mar 2003 05:33:16 -0300 |
|
Em Sex, 2003-03-21 às 23:44, L. Sicinius Drusus escreveu:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I Make no secrect of the fact that I support the
> removal of the present regime in Iraq, but in my case
> this isn't a matter of blindly supporting the policies
> of the United States Government. Over 18 years ago I
> was sent to the Persian Gulf for the first time as
> part a mission that included gathering information on
> the war that was being fought between Iran and Iraq.
> At that time the United States was far more hostile to
> the Iranian government than to the Iraqi government.
> After seeing how the Iraqi Ba'athist regime fought
> that war, and how it maintained order within the
> nation I became a proponant of the removal of that
> regime by any means nessacary. As a general rule I'm
> not a proponant of the United States involving herself
> in overseas adventures execpt under extraordinay
> circumstances. In my case it's a matter of the United
> States government finally agreeing to a postion that I
> have held for over 18 years, that the people of Iraq
> should be liberated from a regime that I consider
> totally abhorant. That is a personal viewpoint, that
> has no effect on my views of Nova Roma.
>
> Nova Roma's Legal status as an "American Corparation"
> is no more than a technial detail. I Do not consider
> it an "American Corparation" but an international
> organization that happens to be incorparated in the
> United States. If that technial detail becomes a
> danger to Nova Roma goals, then I will do my duty as a
> Senator of this Micronation, and as a member of it's
> Board of Directors and consider reincorparating
> outside the United States.
>
Well said, Senator, all of it.
Manius Villius Limitanus
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] The Gods of War |
| From: |
"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 12:18:56 +0100 |
|
Salve Quintus Fabius,
Salvete citizens,
> Moravia said
< "And if we can't have peace, let us make war under Minerva, not Mars..."
Actually dear, I didn't say that (and I don't remember who did). I posted
the silly Make Love Not War and the Cupid's arrow emails....
As some people have accurately remarked to me, I am rather shallow in my
discussions and follow my heart and feelings with very little input from my
brain. My only argument against war is because it breaks my heart to see the
world so full of hate. This wouldn't take me far in a discussion....
I just pray - seemingly in vain- that one day the human race will all take
hands, put aside their differences and work together for a better world for
all of Earth's inhabitants.
That said, I respect all of my fellow Nova Roma colleagues and citizens, no
matter what their opinion is on this war. And if any of our citizens are
called to fight, I hope that they come back safe and sound.
Valete,
Diana Moravia
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bounce_test?= |
| From: |
"=?iso-8859-1?Q?sa-mann@libero.it?=" <sa-mann@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:21:21 +0100 |
|
Bounce test sorry
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: The Gods of War |
| From: |
"teleriferchnyfain" <teleriferchnyfain@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:22:02 -0000 |
|
Salve,
Solidly with you here, Diana
Vale bene,
Helena Galeria
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Quintus Fabius,
> Salvete citizens,
>
> > Moravia said
> < "And if we can't have peace, let us make war under Minerva, not
Mars..."
>
> Actually dear, I didn't say that (and I don't remember who did). I
posted
> the silly Make Love Not War and the Cupid's arrow emails....
>
> As some people have accurately remarked to me, I am rather shallow
in my
> discussions and follow my heart and feelings with very little input
from my
> brain. My only argument against war is because it breaks my heart
to see the
> world so full of hate. This wouldn't take me far in a
discussion....
>
> I just pray - seemingly in vain- that one day the human race will
all take
> hands, put aside their differences and work together for a better
world for
> all of Earth's inhabitants.
>
> That said, I respect all of my fellow Nova Roma colleagues and
citizens, no
> matter what their opinion is on this war. And if any of our
citizens are
> called to fight, I hope that they come back safe and sound.
>
> Valete,
> Diana Moravia
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The Gods of War |
| From: |
"Vestinia, called Vesta" <optia_vesta@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 09:01:20 -0800 (PST) |
|
--- Diana Moravia Aventina <diana@pandora.be> wrote:
> > Moravia said
> < "And if we can't have peace, let us make war under Minerva, not
> Mars..."
>
> Actually dear, I didn't say that (and I don't remember who did). I
> posted the silly Make Love Not War and the Cupid's arrow emails....
Please do not blame Moravia for my post...
Vestinia Caprenia
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 20:09:59 +0100 |
|
Salvete;
Really, what happened during the weeks that followed September 11 is now happening again here. Despite valiant efforts of some to bring this list back on-topic and link the war theme to ancient Rome, I really wonder why some people aren't taking this debate elsewhere. Where is moderation when you need it, or am I missing something here?
Valete,
M. Octavius Solaris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:21:01 -0800 |
|
Ave M. Octavius,
I believe that the moderation is there. The conversations on the list have not been THAT bad. But if it is not up to your standard of moderation or censorship why don't you try to start a new conversation or find a way to link the current debate back to ancient Rome?
Respectfully,
Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: M. Octavius Solaris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:09 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam
Salvete;
Really, what happened during the weeks that followed September 11 is now happening again here. Despite valiant efforts of some to bring this list back on-topic and link the war theme to ancient Rome, I really wonder why some people aren't taking this debate elsewhere. Where is moderation when you need it, or am I missing something here?
Valete,
M. Octavius Solaris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 20:20:59 +0100 |
|
Salve Sulla,
Agreed. All in all things have remained civil. But still, coming home yesterday night and seeing your hotmail box overloaded with messages about the war (as if I hadn't noticed already a war was going on ;)) is kind of confronting and feels like spam, especially when my inbox is completely full.
As for a link back to ancient Rome, well, I could think of a few rather interesting, related issues but I'm afraid that the debate might take a few nasty turns again and would ultimately bring us back to the former topic. Additionally, I did state that some have made efforts to get things back on track!
Vale bene!
Solaris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:29:05 -0800 |
|
Ave,
Then as others have said before, use the delete button. If you dont want to read it..no one forces you too. Just delete the email. Or block the sender. Or go digest. Or go no mail. There is no reason to call for increased censorship.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: M. Octavius Solaris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam
Salve Sulla,
Agreed. All in all things have remained civil. But still, coming home yesterday night and seeing your hotmail box overloaded with messages about the war (as if I hadn't noticed already a war was going on ;)) is kind of confronting and feels like spam, especially when my inbox is completely full.
As for a link back to ancient Rome, well, I could think of a few rather interesting, related issues but I'm afraid that the debate might take a few nasty turns again and would ultimately bring us back to the former topic. Additionally, I did state that some have made efforts to get things back on track!
Vale bene!
Solaris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Freedom of speech in ancient Rome |
| From: |
Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 14:53:59 -0500 |
|
On Saturday, March 22, 2003, at 01:31 PM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
> While Nova Roma is incorporated in the USA, it is not a corporation
> dedicated to Americanism or promoting the United States.
Indeed, and one of the more admirable (though often neglected)
traditions of the United States is that of freedom of speech. There are
in fact many groups chartered in the U.S. for the express purpose of
criticizing its government's actions and policies. So I see no
hypocrisy in Nova Romans doing so -- though I do see an abuse of a
forum meant for Roman subjects, as others have pointed out.
From Roman history we can read of times of terror and proscriptions,
when any idiot could get you killed by starting a rumor that you said
or thought something. Let me ask a question of our historians: Was
there a time when freedom of speech, specifically the freedom to
criticize the government, was granted widely to the Roman people? What
was the result?
-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
John Walzer <jwalzer5@comcast.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 14:53:42 -0500 |
|
Salve L. Cornelius Sulla
I don't think M. Octavius Solaris proposes censorship. He simply wishes, as do I (correct me here, if I'm wrong Marcus), that people would exercise some discretion when posting to the group list. A debate is fine if it can enlighten either side on a particular issue. But the issue of the current war with Iraq is a polarizing one. People have hunkered down and dug in on this issue. Given the last week's mail, about a dozen citizens seem to have strong views one way or another. And its clear that neither side is about to budge. One side is obviously pro-Bush and favors the conflict, the other side is just as obviously disenchanted with Bush and unconvinced that war is necessary. There have already been some ugly insinuations that anyone not firmly in favor of the war is un-American/unpatriotic, etc.
Some citizens have already noted that posting a message to the general list to state one's position is not the problem. It's the response to responses to responses that are generating most of the irritating material and, since as I noted above, no amount of explanation or invective is going to modify the entrenched positions of those for and against the war, maybe the solution is to stop generating such threads, as they just pour gasoline on the fire without accomplishing anything.
Vale
L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam
Ave,
Then as others have said before, use the delete button. If you dont want to read it..no one forces you too. Just delete the email. Or block the sender. Or go digest. Or go no mail. There is no reason to call for increased censorship.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: M. Octavius Solaris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam
Salve Sulla,
Agreed. All in all things have remained civil. But still, coming home yesterday night and seeing your hotmail box overloaded with messages about the war (as if I hadn't noticed already a war was going on ;)) is kind of confronting and feels like spam, especially when my inbox is completely full.
As for a link back to ancient Rome, well, I could think of a few rather interesting, related issues but I'm afraid that the debate might take a few nasty turns again and would ultimately bring us back to the former topic. Additionally, I did state that some have made efforts to get things back on track!
Vale bene!
Solaris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:58:27 -0800 |
|
Ave,
If that was all he called for then I do not have a problem with it. However his post stated, where is the moderation when you need it. That is calling for the Praetors, who are constitutionally empowered to act in that jurisdiction to act. Which would be tantamount to saying that discussion is no longer allowed. Which would be censorship. Something that is a very drastic view in light that M. Octavius, and you could simply delete the email that you do not want to read. Block the Sender of the emails, if you feel you must. Or you can go on digest form, if you do not want the spam you can go no mail. There is no need for censorship, when those other options are available to you.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: John Walzer
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam
Salve L. Cornelius Sulla
I don't think M. Octavius Solaris proposes censorship. He simply wishes, as do I (correct me here, if I'm wrong Marcus), that people would exercise some discretion when posting to the group list. A debate is fine if it can enlighten either side on a particular issue. But the issue of the current war with Iraq is a polarizing one. People have hunkered down and dug in on this issue. Given the last week's mail, about a dozen citizens seem to have strong views one way or another. And its clear that neither side is about to budge. One side is obviously pro-Bush and favors the conflict, the other side is just as obviously disenchanted with Bush and unconvinced that war is necessary. There have already been some ugly insinuations that anyone not firmly in favor of the war is un-American/unpatriotic, etc.
Some citizens have already noted that posting a message to the general list to state one's position is not the problem. It's the response to responses to responses that are generating most of the irritating material and, since as I noted above, no amount of explanation or invective is going to modify the entrenched positions of those for and against the war, maybe the solution is to stop generating such threads, as they just pour gasoline on the fire without accomplishing anything.
Vale
L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam
Ave,
Then as others have said before, use the delete button. If you dont want to read it..no one forces you too. Just delete the email. Or block the sender. Or go digest. Or go no mail. There is no reason to call for increased censorship.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: M. Octavius Solaris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam
Salve Sulla,
Agreed. All in all things have remained civil. But still, coming home yesterday night and seeing your hotmail box overloaded with messages about the war (as if I hadn't noticed already a war was going on ;)) is kind of confronting and feels like spam, especially when my inbox is completely full.
As for a link back to ancient Rome, well, I could think of a few rather interesting, related issues but I'm afraid that the debate might take a few nasty turns again and would ultimately bring us back to the former topic. Additionally, I did state that some have made efforts to get things back on track!
Vale bene!
Solaris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Comparing Ancient Roman Events to Today's Issues |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 19:58:17 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Then as others have said before, use the delete button. If you
dont want to read it..no one forces you too. Just delete the email.
Or block the sender. Or go digest. Or go no mail. There is no
reason to call for increased censorship.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
> [
Salvete Lucius, Solaris et omnes,
I think one could see that the Roman Empire with respect to
catastrophies could be well linked to events of our modern era. One
event that shook the Empire in the reign of Augustus (9 AD)that hit
as hard as Sept. 11 did in our era was the Battle of the Teutoburg
Wald.
Apparently Quintilius Veras, perfumed haired dandy sort of guy with a
law background and after screwing up his postings in the middle East
got posted to Germany. A barbarian leader and ex Roman
officer,Arminius who knew Roman tactics lured Veras and 3 legions
into the forest and annihilated them all. The few survivors were
burned alive in wicker baskets. Augustus never recovered from that
and was rumored to have wandered the halls saying " Quintilius Veras!
Give me back my legions!"
The Empire thus recieved a terrible blow to its expansion policy in
that region! There is tons of information on that subject if you just
look up Quintilius Veras on the internet.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:01:50 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 08:09:59PM +0100, M. Octavius Solaris wrote:
> Salvete;
>
> Really, what happened during the weeks that followed September 11 is
> now happening again here.
And will continue to happen as long as human beings react to important
events and the Main List is a forum rather than a jail.
> Despite valiant efforts of some to bring
> this list back on-topic and link the war theme to ancient Rome, I
> really wonder why some people aren't taking this debate elsewhere.
> Where is moderation when you need it, or am I missing something here?
You are. Read the moderation guidelines carefully, and you will not miss
it any longer. Until then, there's the `delete' key and by-subject
killfiling on most email clients. There's also the option of *starting*
a non-war thread that will be so exciting as to draw everyone's
attention; I'll be looking forward to your opening, erm, salvo.
Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dictum, factum.
Said and done.
-- Terence, "Heautontimorumenos"
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:08:35 -0500 |
|
Salvete, L. Suetonius Nerva -
On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 02:53:42PM -0500, John Walzer wrote:
> Salve L. Cornelius Sulla
>
> I don't think M. Octavius Solaris proposes censorship.
He has called for it explicitly.
Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate.
"Plurality should not be posited without necessity." - Principle known
as Occam's Razor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Comparing Ancient Roman Events to Today's Issues |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> |
| Date: |
22 Mar 2003 17:16:38 -0300 |
|
Em Sáb, 2003-03-22 às 16:58, Quintus Lanius Paulinus escreveu:
> Salvete Lucius, Solaris et omnes,
>
> I think one could see that the Roman Empire with respect to
> catastrophies could be well linked to events of our modern era. One
> event that shook the Empire in the reign of Augustus (9 AD)that hit
> as hard as Sept. 11 did in our era was the Battle of the Teutoburg
> Wald.
>
> Apparently Quintilius Veras, perfumed haired dandy sort of guy with a
> law background and after screwing up his postings in the middle East
> got posted to Germany. A barbarian leader and ex Roman
> officer,Arminius who knew Roman tactics lured Veras and 3 legions
> into the forest and annihilated them all. The few survivors were
> burned alive in wicker baskets. Augustus never recovered from that
> and was rumored to have wandered the halls saying " Quintilius Veras!
> Give me back my legions!"
>
> The Empire thus recieved a terrible blow to its expansion policy in
> that region! There is tons of information on that subject if you just
> look up Quintilius Veras on the internet.
Its is quite interessant, but I don't think that it bears any
resemblance with what is going on today.
What we see today is much closer to Caesar's Ponthian campaign.
You know: Veni,Vidi,Vici.
At that point the Republic was very close to the Empire, just another
World War away.
Manius Villius Limitanus
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Comparing Ancient Roman Events to Today's Issues |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:17:15 -0500 |
|
On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 07:58:17PM -0000, Quintus Lanius Paulinus wrote:
>
> Salvete Lucius, Solaris et omnes,
>
> I think one could see that the Roman Empire with respect to
> catastrophies could be well linked to events of our modern era. One
> event that shook the Empire in the reign of Augustus (9 AD)that hit
> as hard as Sept. 11 did in our era was the Battle of the Teutoburg
> Wald.
>
> Apparently Quintilius Veras, perfumed haired dandy sort of guy with a
> law background and after screwing up his postings in the middle East
> got posted to Germany. A barbarian leader and ex Roman
> officer,Arminius who knew Roman tactics lured Veras and 3 legions
> into the forest and annihilated them all. The few survivors were
> burned alive in wicker baskets. Augustus never recovered from that
> and was rumored to have wandered the halls saying " Quintilius Veras!
> Give me back my legions!"
>
> The Empire thus recieved a terrible blow to its expansion policy in
> that region! There is tons of information on that subject if you just
> look up Quintilius Veras on the internet.
Salve -
"Quintilius Veras" produces no matches on Google. I believe you'd be
better off searching for "quintilius OR quintillius varus" (1450 hits.)
Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Vare, legiones redde!
Varus, give me back my legions!
-- Augustus, upon hearing that governor Quintilius Varus and three
legions had been killed in an ambush in the Teutoburger Forest.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Freedom of speech in ancient Rome |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> |
| Date: |
22 Mar 2003 17:24:28 -0300 |
|
Em Sáb, 2003-03-22 às 16:53, Patricia Cassia escreveu:
> On Saturday, March 22, 2003, at 01:31 PM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:
>
> > While Nova Roma is incorporated in the USA, it is not a corporation
> > dedicated to Americanism or promoting the United States.
>
> Indeed, and one of the more admirable (though often neglected)
> traditions of the United States is that of freedom of speech. There are
> in fact many groups chartered in the U.S. for the express purpose of
> criticizing its government's actions and policies. So I see no
> hypocrisy in Nova Romans doing so -- though I do see an abuse of a
> forum meant for Roman subjects, as others have pointed out.
>
> From Roman history we can read of times of terror and proscriptions,
> when any idiot could get you killed by starting a rumor that you said
> or thought something. Let me ask a question of our historians: Was
> there a time when freedom of speech, specifically the freedom to
> criticize the government, was granted widely to the Roman people? What
> was the result?
All along the Republic, before the troubled times of the 1st century AD.
What you are describing only happened under the various "tyrannies"
(prolongued Dictatorships) in the 1st century AD and after that under
the monarchy of the Empire.
Manius Villius Limitanus
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Freedom of speech in ancient Rome |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:33:05 EST |
|
In a message dated 3/22/03 11:53:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pcassia@novaroma.org writes:
> Was
> there a time when freedom of speech, specifically the freedom to
> criticize the government, was granted widely to the Roman people? What
> was the result?
>
No, there were times in Early Roman Republic you could, but even that was
limited. Romans believed that negative thoughts were conducive to bad things
happening. The Senate would often pass SCs forbidding freedoms to maintain
morale in the dark days of the middle
After Marius and Sulla, speaking out was asking for proscription.
We maintain free speech in our forum because it is a right granted by our NR
constitution.
Fabius Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Comparing Ancient Roman Events to Today's Issues |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 20:34:29 -0000 |
|
> Its is quite interessant, but I don't think that it bears any
> resemblance with what is going on today.
>
> What we see today is much closer to Caesar's Ponthian campaign.
> You know: Veni,Vidi,Vici.
>
> At that point the Republic was very close to the Empire, just
another
> World War away.
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
>
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@q...>
Salve Mani Villi,
Your point is well taken but I was thinking in terms of comparing
the "shock value" of Teutoburg to the people of Rome at that time and
the "shock" compared to that of the USA on Sept. 11. Both
institutions were comfortable in their situations but they recieved
an ugly lesson of just how vunerable they could be.
Just a little humor here. I like the quote Veni Vidi Vici. In my
province, Alberta we are only required to have 1 licence plate on our
car. We can put any other decorative plate in front so long as it is
not obscene. I am thinking of making my front licence plate saying "
Vidi, vici, veni!
Regards - Quintus P.
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Freedom of speech in ancient Rome |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 20:41:36 -0000 |
|
>
> No, there were times in Early Roman Republic you could, but even
that was
> limited. Romans believed that negative thoughts were conducive to
bad things
> happening. The Senate would often pass SCs forbidding freedoms to
maintain
> morale in the dark days of the middle
> After Marius and Sulla, speaking out was asking for proscription.
> We maintain free speech in our forum because it is a right granted
by our NR
> constitution.
> Fabius Maximus
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
Don't forget one of the greatest Roman orators, Cicero got his hands
and head chopped off for mean mouthing Marc Antony. Don't forget
Augustus exiled the poet Ovid to the Romania area for writing and
publishing raunchy hot poetry after Augustus had wanted Romans to
clean up their morality.
Quintus Paulinus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] The war of spam, a Scribe's Comments |
| From: |
"Spurius Postumius" <postumius@gmx.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:46:13 -0500 |
|
Sp. Postumius Quiritibus S.P.D.
Salvete,
As it is my duty to the Praetores to assist in the moderation of this list, I feel that this is one time when I need to speak, ex officio.
Marcus Octavius Solaris stated:
"Really, what happened during the weeks that followed September 11 is now happening again here. Despite valiant efforts of some to bring this list back on-topic and link the war theme to ancient Rome, I really wonder why some people aren't taking this debate elsewhere. Where is moderation when you need it, or am I missing something here?"
Though I can understand his frustration with what seems to be the main topic of discussion in this Forum, as others have done before, I must point back to the Praetorian Edict which explicitely sets out the guidelines for this Forum.
Paragraph IX, Edictum Praetoricium, 30 January 2756 (http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/praetor-2003-01-30.html).
"The main focus of this list is Nova Roma and Roma Antiqua. However, as members of a diverse international community we all have lives and interests outside of Nova Roma. It is perfectly acceptable to discuss non-Roman topics here, though keep in mind that not everyone may share your interest in these topics."
Therefore, it has been deemed acceptable to discuss topics which are not of Roman interest. What Marcus Octavius mentions falls into this. So it is now acceptable for this to occur. However, I would like to make it explicit what is in the last sentence.
Citizens, please keep in mind that not all citizens may share in your interest in whatever topics you bring into this forum. If it is something that can easily be taken elsewhere, please do so. I think all that use this forum are mature enough to have the discretion to know what should and should not be brought into the forum. For my part, I can only say that it is not my decision to tell you what you should and should not talk about.
All that said, my best suggestion to anyone who feels that something brought into this forum is explicitely inappropriate for discussion here may mail either the Praetores at praetors@novaroma.org or to the moderators at nova-roma-owner@yahoogroups.com or, if you wish, for some reason, I am available at postumius@novaroma.org.
Valete,
Spurius Postumius Tubertus, Praetorian Scribe
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Freedom of speech in ancient Rome |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> |
| Date: |
22 Mar 2003 17:56:33 -0300 |
|
Em Sáb, 2003-03-22 às 17:41, Quintus Lanius Paulinus escreveu:
> >
> > No, there were times in Early Roman Republic you could, but even
> that was
> > limited. Romans believed that negative thoughts were conducive to
> bad things
> > happening. The Senate would often pass SCs forbidding freedoms to
> maintain
> > morale in the dark days of the middle
> > After Marius and Sulla, speaking out was asking for proscription.
> > We maintain free speech in our forum because it is a right granted
> by our NR
> > constitution.
> > Fabius Maximus
> >
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
>
> Don't forget one of the greatest Roman orators, Cicero got his hands
> and head chopped off for mean mouthing Marc Antony. Don't forget
> Augustus exiled the poet Ovid to the Romania area for writing and
> publishing raunchy hot poetry after Augustus had wanted Romans to
> clean up their morality.
That's all 1st century AD.
Fabius, I don 't agree with you for the middle republic: Before the
murder of the Grachii, freedom of speech was tolerated, if not they
would never have been elected.
Cato the elder was quite disturbing with Carthado delenda est and was
free to speak even in a time of strong comercial colaboration with
Carthage. etc.
Manius Villius Limitanus
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Freedom of speech in ancient Rome |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:20:59 -0800 |
|
M. Villius, I dont know about you, but when I have read Livy I recall a number of examples when freedom of speech was not allowed. Just off the top of my head was the crack down on the Bacchanlian cult and the burning of those books and followers of that sect were persecuted. And this was during Cato the Censor's time (about 180 bce).
I think you might want to go back and read Livy.
The reason I remember this example off hand was that I asked about it before on the ML.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Michel Loos
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Freedom of speech in ancient Rome
Em Sáb, 2003-03-22 às 17:41, Quintus Lanius Paulinus escreveu:
> >
> > No, there were times in Early Roman Republic you could, but even
> that was
> > limited. Romans believed that negative thoughts were conducive to
> bad things
> > happening. The Senate would often pass SCs forbidding freedoms to
> maintain
> > morale in the dark days of the middle
> > After Marius and Sulla, speaking out was asking for proscription.
> > We maintain free speech in our forum because it is a right granted
> by our NR
> > constitution.
> > Fabius Maximus
> >
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
>
> Don't forget one of the greatest Roman orators, Cicero got his hands
> and head chopped off for mean mouthing Marc Antony. Don't forget
> Augustus exiled the poet Ovid to the Romania area for writing and
> publishing raunchy hot poetry after Augustus had wanted Romans to
> clean up their morality.
That's all 1st century AD.
Fabius, I don 't agree with you for the middle republic: Before the
murder of the Grachii, freedom of speech was tolerated, if not they
would never have been elected.
Cato the elder was quite disturbing with Carthado delenda est and was
free to speak even in a time of strong comercial colaboration with
Carthage. etc.
Manius Villius Limitanus
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:28:13 +0100 |
|
Salvete Luci Corneli et Cai Minuci,
Yes, I called for a form of censorship because I believe this topic is so way off-topic that it becomes a hindrance. Apperently the list rules don't allow it so I'll abide by that. So yes I did miss something here. About the use of the delete button. Well, my friends, I can't delete mail when I'm not there. Besides, my hotmail account is synchronised through Outlook so deleting of messages can take some time, more than you'd think.
I've said before why I'm not linking this debate to a related, possibly more Roman topic. Secondly I usually don't have enough time to make the creative effort to think of new topics. Honestly, I don't. I'm very pleased if I find enough time to read some messages and reply to something I find interesting or worthwhile commenting on.
Valete bene,
M. Octavius Solaris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Freedom of speech in ancient Rome |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:39:20 -0800 (PST) |
|
My Impression is there was a degree of "Freedom of
Speech" prior to the time of Marius and Sulla, but it
existed in a negative sense rather than being
considered a right. The Senate could and did ban
speech on certain topics from time to time. You could
still speak out on other topics, not as a "right" but
simply because the Senate didn't bother to ban them.
Any "Freedom of Speech" that existed was more because
of a lax attitude among the Senate when the State
wasn't in danger than anything else.
--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> M. Villius, I dont know about you, but when I have
> read Livy I recall a number of examples when freedom
> of speech was not allowed. Just off the top of my
> head was the crack down on the Bacchanlian cult and
> the burning of those books and followers of that
> sect were persecuted. And this was during Cato the
> Censor's time (about 180 bce).
>
> I think you might want to go back and read Livy.
>
> The reason I remember this example off hand was that
> I asked about it before on the ML.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michel Loos
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 12:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Freedom of speech in
> ancient Rome
>
>
> Em Sáb, 2003-03-22 às 17:41, Quintus Lanius
> Paulinus escreveu:
> > >
> > > No, there were times in Early Roman Republic
> you could, but even
> > that was
> > > limited. Romans believed that negative
> thoughts were conducive to
> > bad things
> > > happening. The Senate would often pass SCs
> forbidding freedoms to
> > maintain
> > > morale in the dark days of the middle
> > > After Marius and Sulla, speaking out was
> asking for proscription.
> > > We maintain free speech in our forum because
> it is a right granted
> > by our NR
> > > constitution.
> > > Fabius Maximus
> > >
> > >
> > > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Don't forget one of the greatest Roman orators,
> Cicero got his hands
> > and head chopped off for mean mouthing Marc
> Antony. Don't forget
> > Augustus exiled the poet Ovid to the Romania
> area for writing and
> > publishing raunchy hot poetry after Augustus had
> wanted Romans to
> > clean up their morality.
>
> That's all 1st century AD.
>
> Fabius, I don 't agree with you for the middle
> republic: Before the
> murder of the Grachii, freedom of speech was
> tolerated, if not they
> would never have been elected.
> Cato the elder was quite disturbing with Carthado
> delenda est and was
> free to speak even in a time of strong comercial
> colaboration with
> Carthage. etc.
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
=====
L. Sicinius Drusus
Roman Citizen
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:41:27 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve Senator Corneli,
> However his post stated, where is the moderation when you need it.
> That is calling for the Praetors,
Perhaps; but "moderation" can also mean self-restraint, rather than
restraint imposed from without, and in that sense Solaris's request
was certainly reasonable.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 13:42:55 -0800 |
|
Ave,
Actually he called for censorship. That request is not reasonable. Please refernce his most recent post.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam
Salve Senator Corneli,
> However his post stated, where is the moderation when you need it.
> That is calling for the Praetors,
Perhaps; but "moderation" can also mean self-restraint, rather than
restraint imposed from without, and in that sense Solaris's request
was certainly reasonable.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:48:02 +0100 |
|
Ave!
<< Actually he called for censorship. That request is not reasonable. Please refernce his most recent post. >>
Whoa Sulla. Who made you the judge of reason? That's a heavy responsibility, amice. Relax Sulla. It's what I have done, too. Appearently I was confused about the list rules. Sometimes things can be rather simple...
Vale bene,
Solaris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] The war of spam |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:31:27 -0600 (CST) |
|
Salve Senator Corneli,
> Actually he called for censorship. That request is not reasonable.
> Please refernce his most recent post.
Indeed, as I saw a few seconds after I sent my reply.
I do not support or condone censorship except in the cases of spam
or denial of service attacks (aka "flooding"). Free speech is a
fundamental human right and may not be trifled with.
As odious as the current "discussion" is, I believe it should be
allowed to continue.
For my part, I will simply delete the messages of jingoistic morons
without reply. There's nothing to be gained by wasting time with
an argument here.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Record of Sale |
| From: |
"Christine Schofield" <pompeii@tiscali.co.uk> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 22:20:51 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
I have just been reading a newspaper report about an inscribed wooden
tablet at the Museum of London. The wax coating has worn away, but faint
outlines of the inscribed text could still be seen on the wood via
infra-red imaging.
It reads: "Vegetus, assistant slave of Montanus, the slave of the August
Emperor, has bought the girl Fortunata, by nationality a Diablintian,
for 600 denarii. She is warranted healthy and not liable to run away".
I know that educated slaves could aspire to great wealth and influence,
but I had not thought in terms of slaves owning slaves. Does anyone know
if this was a common occurrence?
600 denarii seems quite a substantial sum. I would have thought that
anyone having that much wealth at his disposal would have been looking
primarily to secure their own freedom. Or would there have been any
advantage in remaining a slave in a powerful position as opposed to
being a not so important freedman?
I would be interested if anyone could tell me more about this.
Valete,
Gaia Flavia Aureliana
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| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Record of Sale |
| From: |
StarVVreck@aol.com |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Mar 2003 18:52:13 EST |
|
In a message dated 3/22/2003 6:33:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pompeii@tiscali.co.uk writes:
> I would have thought that
> anyone having that much wealth at his disposal would have been looking
> primarily to secure their own freedom.
A slave purchasing a slave for himself instead of purchasing his own freedom?
Perhaps he was purchasing the slave on orders from the Emperor and not
actually purchasing her for himself.
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