Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] War Comments (my view)
From:	"scott dolleck" <billgatesson@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 23 Mar 2003 17:16:47 -0700

>
>While everyone in the U.S. has a right to thier opinion as long as such
>a view does not rob the rights of another American, in my view, there
>are more appropriate forums for protest and response than this list.
>

YES!
I fully agree with this!!
Having been in the u.s. military as a photographer....
I hear about the Oporation in the middle east every day.
I read about roman history more now for a break from the news.
I find I now delete more than read, A shame for there is so much knowlege to
be shared in NR.

Lucius Avisius



>Respectfully;
>
>Jim Mathews
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@novaroma.org>
Date:	Sun, 23 Mar 2003 20:16:50 -0600

Salve Quinte Cassi

> My exact point, honored Consul. Nova Roma's purpose is to neither
> promote Americanism nor to promote anti-Americanism it is to promote
> Romanitas. If ones agenda is to promote anti-Americanism (there is a
> difference between dissent and anti-Americanism) then it is at least
> in my opinion hypocritical to do so through an organization chartered
> in America.

I agree completely with your second sentence. Nova Roma exists purely
to foster the Religio Romana and Romanitas. Your first and third
sentences, however, are incorrect in my opinion.

I was not making the same point you were. And, I do not see it to be at
all hypocritical to be anti-American and belong to Nova Roma, because
America is beside Nova Roma's point. It has nothing to do with Nova
Roma's raison d'etre. The accident of the location of Nova Roma's
incorporation is therefore beside the point.

I disagree with you on the grounds of this point of logic and to keep
Nova Roma's purpose clearly separate from the current hot-button issue,
and for no other reason. I choose to take M Minucius' path with regard
to my opinions on the US and the current war against Iraq. That is,
there are other, better venues in which to share them. I wouldn't have
commented on this thread, except that it seemed to me that you were
tying Nova Roma to the US in a way which isn't particularly valid.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
should I do?"

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Record of Sale
From:	"gfrose2000" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 02:43:35 -0000

Gregory Rose S.P.D.

Having received a private email on the subject, I think I was unclear
in my posting about slaves owning slaves. While the Institutes of
Gaius (i.52) specify that property acquired by a slave is acquired by
his master, imperial slaves, like other servi publici, clearly had
rights of ownership or Ulpian's note that such slaves had the right of
testamenti factio to the amount of half their property (Frag., tit.
20) would make no sense and there would be no inscriptions regarding
servi of Augusti servi. Furthermore, there is ample evidence of
masters permitting slaves to acquire slaves under the legal authority
of the master's dominica potestas in bonis and to retain them after
the "owner's" manumission.

Ave et vale.

Gregory Rose

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Some Rome-related thoughts on the current war
From:	ames0826@cs.com
Date:	Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:08:48 -0500

I would like to say that I see some parallels between the United States' position as a "solo superpower" (that status is of course debatable) and that of Rome in the late Republic. Rome, too, kept getting involved in one foreign war after another through its quest for "national security". Rome ended up getting all the security it ever wished for, but at grim costs to its liberties and institutions. I fear the same thing might end up happening to the United States, where I am proud to live.

Fortunatus <labienus@novaroma.org> wrote:

> Salve Quinte Cassi
>
>gt; My exact point, honored Consul.nbsp; Nova Roma's purpose is to neither
>gt; promote Americanism nor to promote anti-Americanism it is to promote
>gt; Romanitas.nbsp; If ones agenda is to promote anti-Americanism (there is a
>gt; difference between dissent and anti-Americanism) then it is at least
>gt; in my opinion hypocritical to do so through an organization chartered
>gt; in America.
>
>I agree completely with your second sentence.nbsp; Nova Roma exists purely
>to foster the Religio Romana and Romanitas.nbsp; Your first and third
>sentences, however, are incorrect in my opinion.
>
>I was not making the same point you were.nbsp; And, I do not see it to be at
>all hypocritical to be anti-American and belong to Nova Roma, because
>America is beside Nova Roma's point.nbsp; It has nothing to do with Nova
>Roma's raison d'etre.nbsp; The accident of the location of Nova Roma's
>incorporation is therefore beside the point.
>
>I disagree with you on the grounds of this point of logic and to keep
>Nova Roma's purpose clearly separate from the current hot-button issue,
>and for no other reason.nbsp; I choose to take M Minucius' path with regard
>to my opinions on the US and the current war against Iraq.nbsp; That is,
>there are other, better venues in which to share them.nbsp; I wouldn't have
>commented on this thread, except that it seemed to me that you were
>tying Nova Roma to the US in a way which isn't particularly valid.
>
>Vale
>T Labienus Fortunatus
>--
>quot;Since death alone is certain and the time of death uncertain, what
>should I do?quot;
>
>
>
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Comments and discussion on Colony
From:	"Lawrence D. Freeman" <gladiator@ycpe.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 06:31:29 -0000

Salvete Romani,
The idea of colonies I think is a good idea. For one thing it will
bring things in NR more in line with the actual historical model of
ancient Roma Imperium, as ir was in their time. If we really wish to
strive for being in line with the actual model to the degree that we
can in these times and days. We should have the process for the
forming of colonies put into the Lex so we can in the future if so
wished. I for think that this should be put into the Lex.
Please excuse the taryness of this post but I have been having
problems with my e-mail server, which have been corrected.
Valete!
NOVA ROMA VICTOR SEMPER EST.
Laurenicus Tarquitius Decimus Magus.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Help Please!
From:	"Anthony Scott" <optio456@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 06:13:32 -0000

I was wondering if the group would assist me in translating these
latin phrases that I want to know the meaning to before having them
embossed:

1:) Si scientia potens est, ignotus esse invictus esse!
2:) Cvas (or perhps CUAS, my handwriting was bad!) qui nunquam amavit!

I would appreciate any help that you guys are able to give me!

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Vindolanda Tablets Website
From:	"gfrose2000" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:48:49 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D. salutem dicit.

The Script, Image and Culture of Writing in the Ancient World
programme at Oxford Univ. has produced a spectacular website on the
Vindolanda tablets at <http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk:8080/>.
Vindolanda was a fort and logistic center immediately south of
Hadrian's Wall; I've been there several times and it is a lovely
location with a first-rate museum of finds from the excavations. The
website sets the standard for web publication of inscriptions and is
brilliantly organized, extremely user-friendly, and simply beautiful
in its presentation of the image of each tablet(with scalable
enlargement available with a mouse-click), and discussion of each
tablet's transcription, its excavation and conservation, its place in
the archaeology of Romano-British tablet finds, the palaeography of
tablet finds generally.If you want to know what Old Roman Cursive
script looks like and get a bit of a tutorial in reading it, or you
are fascinated with Roman Britain, or you yearn to learn more about
life in garrison and in the merchant-peasant communities around the
fort, or, finally, if you are intrigued with a website that
successfully makes contact with both novice and expert, this site's
for you. Enjoy!

Vale, amici mei.

G. Iulius Scaurus
gfr@intcon.net
gfrose2000@yahoo.com

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:34:38 -0000

Salve Honored Consul,

I'm going to cut to the chase here and this is between myself and
yourself. There is ONE specific person that I am refering to and
that is Manius Villius "Che" Limitanus. Considering how he's dodged
directly responding to this, he knows exactly what I mean, and if a
few other people were made uncomfortable in the processm then so be
it. I've often asked uncomfortable questions in the past and will
continue to do so in the future.

"Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote his
anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
philosophy. Not once can I find where he has actually engages in a
discussion about things Roman and just leave it at that. Somehow
some way he eventually turns any issue he becomes involved with into
a discourse on the evils of American and/or Western Capitalist
Imperialism yada yada yada......

I find this completely hypocritical to use an organization that is
corporated in America and about Roman (thus the very foundation of
Western society) to expouse and promote anti-American and Anti-
Western (thus in reality anti-Roman) Marxist/Socialist philosophy.
There are plenty of various forums for such activities. This just,
at least in my opinion, does not happen to be one of them. Even if
tommorow for whatever reason Nova Roma re-incorporated in Canada or
Switzerland, or where ever, Nova Roma would still not be an
appropriate forum for such activity.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:56:55 -0600 (CST)

> "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote his
> anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> philosophy.

Good for him! This is a nation where we have free speech, and
where multiple viewpoints can coexist.

I welcome M. Villius and his refreshingly non-Bush-worshipping
viewpoint.

Speaking as a Senator and Director of this corporation, I affirm
that their is nothing in our Constitution, Articles of Incorporation,
or any other bylaws that favors pro-Bush or pro-American viewpoints
over any others.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	labienus@novaroma.org
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 09:41:09 US/Central

Salve Quinte Cassi

I'm not certain whether you meant to send this to me directly or to the list.
The subject line claims that it is private and you say that "this is between
myself and yourself", but I received it from the Yahoo list and hitting 'Reply'
causes it to be sent there. Therefore, I'm replying to your apparently public
message in an equally public fashion. I hope you don't mind my doing so.

> I'm going to cut to the chase here and this is between myself and
> yourself. There is ONE specific person that I am refering to and
> that is Manius Villius "Che" Limitanus. Considering how he's dodged
> directly responding to this, he knows exactly what I mean, and if a
> few other people were made uncomfortable in the processm then so be
> it. I've often asked uncomfortable questions in the past and will
> continue to do so in the future.

There's nothing wrong with asking uncomfortable questions. Indeed, most
questions worth asking are uncomfortable. However, if your intent is to ask a
question, then it seems that you ought to direct your question to the person
you wish to interrogate, rather than making an oblique statement of opinion to
the crowd.

> "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote his
> anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> philosophy. Not once can I find where he has actually engages in a
> discussion about things Roman and just leave it at that. Somehow
> some way he eventually turns any issue he becomes involved with into
> a discourse on the evils of American and/or Western Capitalist
> Imperialism yada yada yada......

Would you have a problem with him if he constantly used discussions of Roman
things to promote pro-American, Libertarian ideals? There are plenty of people
who have used the Nova Roman forum to do so. Are these people being equally
hypocritical? M' Villius has his opinions, and he is entitled not only to hold
them but also to express them.

> I find this completely hypocritical to use an organization that is
> corporated in America and about Roman (thus the very foundation of
> Western society) to expouse and promote anti-American and Anti-
> Western (thus in reality anti-Roman) Marxist/Socialist philosophy.

I still maintain that the place in which Nova Roma is incorporated is an
absolute non sequitur to the issue. It is not hypocritical on those grounds to
state anti-American opinions in the Nova Roman forum.

The larger issue, i.e. whether the various fundaments of the Roman state were
essentially American and capitalist, whether some kinds of anti-Americanism are
congruous with at least some aspects of ancient Rome, etc. might make an
interesting conversation if it weren't almost certain to devolve quickly into a
rather brutal flame war. The conversation about whether or not Marxism is
inherently anti-Western would also be an interesting one, but it would be only
peripherally related to Rome at best and therefore not particularly appropriate
to this list.

> There are plenty of various forums for such activities. This just,
> at least in my opinion, does not happen to be one of them. Even if
> tommorow for whatever reason Nova Roma re-incorporated in Canada or
> Switzerland, or where ever, Nova Roma would still not be an
> appropriate forum for such activity.

On this, you and I agree. I would also prefer not to have aggressively pro-
American sentiments stated in the Nova Roman forum. Indeed, I would prefer
that modern politics not enter the Nova Roman equation at all. However, this
is not a realistic expectation, as we all see Rome through the filter of our
own modern preconceptions. (I am certainly no exception.)

Vale optime
Fortunatus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:38:23 -0500

On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 08:56:55AM -0600, Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
>
>
> > "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote his
> > anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> > philosophy.
>
> Good for him! This is a nation where we have free speech, and
> where multiple viewpoints can coexist.
>
> I welcome M. Villius and his refreshingly non-Bush-worshipping
> viewpoint.
>
> Speaking as a Senator and Director of this corporation, I affirm
> that their is nothing in our Constitution, Articles of Incorporation,
> or any other bylaws that favors pro-Bush or pro-American viewpoints
> over any others.

Just as fortunately, there's nothing prohibiting someone on this list
from expressing disagreement with those viewpoints. The right to free
speech does not include the right to have your opinion uncontested, or
even laughed at - and I certainly plan to exercise that right, since I
find Marxist and socialist viewpoints worthy of little beyond laughter.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
...et praeterea censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.
(Cato Sr. After a journey to Carthage, the Roman senator concluded every speech
before the senate with this phrase, no matter the topic of discussion.)

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:08:48 -0600 (CST)

> The right to free
> speech does not include the right to have your opinion uncontested, or
> even laughed at -

I completely agree.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"jachthondus" <rompy@xs4all.nl>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:27:37 -0000

Dear Roman-Friends,

What are we talking-and-discussioning about, HERE on this site?!

Let's please not end-up in a-sort-of-"rows" like: "I am supporting
Bush; and "I am not-supporting-Bush", please?!!!

What does it matter?

We all are "Roman-Freaks"; and please: Let's stay to the subject?!

Greetings, Jachthondus.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<haase@c...> wrote:
>
>
> > "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote
his
> > anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> > philosophy.
>
> Good for him! This is a nation where we have free speech, and
> where multiple viewpoints can coexist.
>
> I welcome M. Villius and his refreshingly non-Bush-worshipping
> viewpoint.
>
> Speaking as a Senator and Director of this corporation, I affirm
> that their is nothing in our Constitution, Articles of
Incorporation,
> or any other bylaws that favors pro-Bush or pro-American viewpoints
> over any others.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://konoko.net/~haase/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"jachthondus" <rompy@xs4all.nl>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:25:47 -0000

First: My message which has been sent about half-an-hour-ago, seems
to have "lost" during it's way to reach you?!

Second: I do have the idea that we are dealing with the
subject "ANCIENT-ROME" in this Group; and not "working-out" in a-sort-
of-row our Personal-different-political-now-adays-ideas about Bush
and whatever?!

One can compare Ancient-happenings with nowadays-happenings, but
WITHOUT declaring to have "The-Truth" on his side...

SORRY!!! (Please, tell me that I am WRONG)?!

Kindest regards,

Jachthondus.







--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, labienus@n... wrote:
> Salve Quinte Cassi
>
> I'm not certain whether you meant to send this to me directly or to
the list.
> The subject line claims that it is private and you say that "this
is between
> myself and yourself", but I received it from the Yahoo list and
hitting 'Reply'
> causes it to be sent there. Therefore, I'm replying to your
apparently public
> message in an equally public fashion. I hope you don't mind my
doing so.
>
> > I'm going to cut to the chase here and this is between myself and
> > yourself. There is ONE specific person that I am refering to and
> > that is Manius Villius "Che" Limitanus. Considering how he's
dodged
> > directly responding to this, he knows exactly what I mean, and if
a
> > few other people were made uncomfortable in the processm then so
be
> > it. I've often asked uncomfortable questions in the past and
will
> > continue to do so in the future.
>
> There's nothing wrong with asking uncomfortable questions. Indeed,
most
> questions worth asking are uncomfortable. However, if your intent
is to ask a
> question, then it seems that you ought to direct your question to
the person
> you wish to interrogate, rather than making an oblique statement of
opinion to
> the crowd.
>
> > "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote
his
> > anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> > philosophy. Not once can I find where he has actually engages
in a
> > discussion about things Roman and just leave it at that. Somehow
> > some way he eventually turns any issue he becomes involved with
into
> > a discourse on the evils of American and/or Western Capitalist
> > Imperialism yada yada yada......
>
> Would you have a problem with him if he constantly used discussions
of Roman
> things to promote pro-American, Libertarian ideals? There are
plenty of people
> who have used the Nova Roman forum to do so. Are these people
being equally
> hypocritical? M' Villius has his opinions, and he is entitled not
only to hold
> them but also to express them.
>
> > I find this completely hypocritical to use an organization that
is
> > corporated in America and about Roman (thus the very foundation
of
> > Western society) to expouse and promote anti-American and Anti-
> > Western (thus in reality anti-Roman) Marxist/Socialist
philosophy.
>
> I still maintain that the place in which Nova Roma is incorporated
is an
> absolute non sequitur to the issue. It is not hypocritical on
those grounds to
> state anti-American opinions in the Nova Roman forum.
>
> The larger issue, i.e. whether the various fundaments of the Roman
state were
> essentially American and capitalist, whether some kinds of anti-
Americanism are
> congruous with at least some aspects of ancient Rome, etc. might
make an
> interesting conversation if it weren't almost certain to devolve
quickly into a
> rather brutal flame war. The conversation about whether or not
Marxism is
> inherently anti-Western would also be an interesting one, but it
would be only
> peripherally related to Rome at best and therefore not particularly
appropriate
> to this list.
>
> > There are plenty of various forums for such activities. This
just,
> > at least in my opinion, does not happen to be one of them. Even
if
> > tommorow for whatever reason Nova Roma re-incorporated in Canada
or
> > Switzerland, or where ever, Nova Roma would still not be an
> > appropriate forum for such activity.
>
> On this, you and I agree. I would also prefer not to have
aggressively pro-
> American sentiments stated in the Nova Roman forum. Indeed, I
would prefer
> that modern politics not enter the Nova Roman equation at all.
However, this
> is not a realistic expectation, as we all see Rome through the
filter of our
> own modern preconceptions. (I am certainly no exception.)
>
> Vale optime
> Fortunatus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	24 Mar 2003 15:23:00 -0300

Em Seg, 2003-03-24 às 06:41, labienus@novaroma.org escreveu:
> Salve Quinte Cassi
>
> I'm not certain whether you meant to send this to me directly or to the list.
> The subject line claims that it is private and you say that "this is between
> myself and yourself", but I received it from the Yahoo list and hitting 'Reply'
> causes it to be sent there. Therefore, I'm replying to your apparently public
> message in an equally public fashion. I hope you don't mind my doing so.
>
> > I'm going to cut to the chase here and this is between myself and
> > yourself. There is ONE specific person that I am refering to and
> > that is Manius Villius "Che" Limitanus. Considering how he's dodged
> > directly responding to this, he knows exactly what I mean, and if a
> > few other people were made uncomfortable in the processm then so be
> > it. I've often asked uncomfortable questions in the past and will
> > continue to do so in the future.
>
> There's nothing wrong with asking uncomfortable questions. Indeed, most
> questions worth asking are uncomfortable. However, if your intent is to ask a
> question, then it seems that you ought to direct your question to the person
> you wish to interrogate, rather than making an oblique statement of opinion to
> the crowd.
>
> > "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote his
> > anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> > philosophy. Not once can I find where he has actually engages in a
> > discussion about things Roman and just leave it at that. Somehow
> > some way he eventually turns any issue he becomes involved with into
> > a discourse on the evils of American and/or Western Capitalist
> > Imperialism yada yada yada......
>
> Would you have a problem with him if he constantly used discussions of Roman
> things to promote pro-American, Libertarian ideals? There are plenty of people
> who have used the Nova Roman forum to do so. Are these people being equally
> hypocritical? M' Villius has his opinions, and he is entitled not only to hold
> them but also to express them.
>
> > I find this completely hypocritical to use an organization that is
> > corporated in America and about Roman (thus the very foundation of
> > Western society) to expouse and promote anti-American and Anti-
> > Western (thus in reality anti-Roman) Marxist/Socialist philosophy.
>
> I still maintain that the place in which Nova Roma is incorporated is an
> absolute non sequitur to the issue. It is not hypocritical on those grounds to
> state anti-American opinions in the Nova Roman forum.
>
> The larger issue, i.e. whether the various fundaments of the Roman state were
> essentially American and capitalist, whether some kinds of anti-Americanism are
> congruous with at least some aspects of ancient Rome, etc. might make an
> interesting conversation if it weren't almost certain to devolve quickly into a
> rather brutal flame war. The conversation about whether or not Marxism is
> inherently anti-Western would also be an interesting one, but it would be only
> peripherally related to Rome at best and therefore not particularly appropriate
> to this list.
>
> > There are plenty of various forums for such activities. This just,
> > at least in my opinion, does not happen to be one of them. Even if
> > tommorow for whatever reason Nova Roma re-incorporated in Canada or
> > Switzerland, or where ever, Nova Roma would still not be an
> > appropriate forum for such activity.
>
> On this, you and I agree. I would also prefer not to have aggressively pro-
> American sentiments stated in the Nova Roman forum. Indeed, I would prefer
> that modern politics not enter the Nova Roman equation at all. However, this
> is not a realistic expectation, as we all see Rome through the filter of our
> own modern preconceptions. (I am certainly no exception.)

I agree with all you said above, with the following exception:
Nova Roma is not only a study of Ancient Rome it is also a modern state,
and as a modern state, modern politics have their place here.

We are in a state (NR) which has institutions (constitution) that mimic
the institutions of ancient Rome. And this should not be changed in
order to mimic any other form of constitution, ancient or modern, no
discussion is needed on this subject.

Within a given form of government, there are still a lot of different
politics, both internal and external that are possible, and this is what
we are discussing. Off course all sides are free to exprese their views.
It is from the confrontations of ideas that we can find OUR path.

This list is full of right/ultra-right points of view. I have leftist
opinions and you should be glad somebody expresses that other point of
view. That's the way NR can progress.

(Perhaps if there were only leftist opinions here, I would force myself
to publish neo-liberal (for the US: this means right in the remainder of
the world) ones).

Dialogue is always positive.

Manius Villius Limitanus

--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:24:35 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
<haase@c...> wrote:
>
>
> > "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote
his
> > anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> > philosophy.
>
> Good for him! This is a nation where we have free speech, and
> where multiple viewpoints can coexist.
>
> I welcome M. Villius and his refreshingly non-Bush-worshipping
> viewpoint.
>
> Speaking as a Senator and Director of this corporation, I affirm
> that their is nothing in our Constitution, Articles of
Incorporation,
> or any other bylaws that favors pro-Bush or pro-American viewpoints
> over any others.

Salve Octavius,

And there is also nothing in the Constitution, Articles of
Incorporation, and any other by-laws that favor anti-Bush or anti-
American viewpoints over others. M. Villius "Che" Limitanus has the
right to express what I consider to be anti-American and anti-Western
political views if he so chooses. I also have the right to
publically state why I find such actions to be hypocritical.

Vale,

Calvus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	24 Mar 2003 15:38:39 -0300

Em Seg, 2003-03-24 às 15:24, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> <haase@c...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote
> his
> > > anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> > > philosophy.
> >
> > Good for him! This is a nation where we have free speech, and
> > where multiple viewpoints can coexist.
> >
> > I welcome M. Villius and his refreshingly non-Bush-worshipping
> > viewpoint.
> >
> > Speaking as a Senator and Director of this corporation, I affirm
> > that their is nothing in our Constitution, Articles of
> Incorporation,
> > or any other bylaws that favors pro-Bush or pro-American viewpoints
> > over any others.
>
> Salve Octavius,
>
> And there is also nothing in the Constitution, Articles of
> Incorporation, and any other by-laws that favor anti-Bush or anti-
> American viewpoints over others. M. Villius "Che" Limitanus has the
> right to express what I consider to be anti-American and anti-Western
> political views if he so chooses. I also have the right to
> publically state why I find such actions to be hypocritical.

Dear Quintus Cassius "Mc-Carthy" Calvus.

you have perfectly the right to dislike my opinions.
They are not "anti-american". America goes from the Aleoutians to the
Terra de Fogo. And they are certainly not in opposition to all
governments of the states in America.

I am american since I am brazilian. And I am in total agreement with the
brazilian government.

Do you misuse "american" for US citizen? Well I am not anti-US, I
perfectly agree with the hundred of thousand US citizens that are
manifesting each day against the agression of Iraq.

Anti-Bush: sure that I am.

Anti-western?: Certainly not, France, Germany, Brazil, Canada etc. are
all western countries.
Marx, Engels were western (Germans that worked in the UK).
Marxism is a western ideology, which doesn't even understand oriental or
middle-east cultures.
What do you exactly mean by "western". US middle West?

Salve

Manius Villius Limitanus

--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:51:44 -0800

Ave Man. Villius

I think your overstating the hundreds of thousands. Tens of thousands likely...hundreds of thousands...only if you count the multiple protests happening on different days when the same people might be coming out.

And according to CNN, the approval for the war is hovering around 74%.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Michel Loos
To: NovaRoma
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>


Em Seg, 2003-03-24 às 15:24, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> <haase@c...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote
> his
> > > anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> > > philosophy.
> >
> > Good for him! This is a nation where we have free speech, and
> > where multiple viewpoints can coexist.
> >
> > I welcome M. Villius and his refreshingly non-Bush-worshipping
> > viewpoint.
> >
> > Speaking as a Senator and Director of this corporation, I affirm
> > that their is nothing in our Constitution, Articles of
> Incorporation,
> > or any other bylaws that favors pro-Bush or pro-American viewpoints
> > over any others.
>
> Salve Octavius,
>
> And there is also nothing in the Constitution, Articles of
> Incorporation, and any other by-laws that favor anti-Bush or anti-
> American viewpoints over others. M. Villius "Che" Limitanus has the
> right to express what I consider to be anti-American and anti-Western
> political views if he so chooses. I also have the right to
> publically state why I find such actions to be hypocritical.

Dear Quintus Cassius "Mc-Carthy" Calvus.

you have perfectly the right to dislike my opinions.
They are not "anti-american". America goes from the Aleoutians to the
Terra de Fogo. And they are certainly not in opposition to all
governments of the states in America.

I am american since I am brazilian. And I am in total agreement with the
brazilian government.

Do you misuse "american" for US citizen? Well I am not anti-US, I
perfectly agree with the hundred of thousand US citizens that are
manifesting each day against the agression of Iraq.

Anti-Bush: sure that I am.

Anti-western?: Certainly not, France, Germany, Brazil, Canada etc. are
all western countries.
Marx, Engels were western (Germans that worked in the UK).
Marxism is a western ideology, which doesn't even understand oriental or
middle-east cultures.
What do you exactly mean by "western". US middle West?

Salve

Manius Villius Limitanus

--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:48:19 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, labienus@n... wrote:
> Salve Quinte Cassi
>
> I'm not certain whether you meant to send this to me directly or to
the list.
> The subject line claims that it is private and you say that "this
is between
> myself and yourself", but I received it from the Yahoo list and
hitting 'Reply'
> causes it to be sent there. Therefore, I'm replying to your
apparently public
> message in an equally public fashion. I hope you don't mind my
doing so.

Don't mind at all. I was going to make it private but then realized
I'd be a hypocrite myself for violating my basic principle of being
open and honest with my opinions and let the chips fall where they
may. I just forgot to delete the "private" notice.

> Would you have a problem with him if he constantly used discussions
of Roman
> things to promote pro-American, Libertarian ideals? There are
plenty of people
> who have used the Nova Roman forum to do so. Are these people
being equally
> hypocritical? M' Villius has his opinions, and he is entitled not
only to hold
> them but also to express them.

Actually answer is yes. I will be honest and say that it would just
take a lot longer to rankle my nerves but eventually I'd reach a
point of saying: "Enough is enough, America isn't always right and
Libertarianism like Marxism makes for great theory but in pratical
terms there are too many shades of gray to either to work on a large
scale. Just as Nova Roma is not a forum for anti-American/anti-
Western political proselytization, it is also not a forum for pro-
American/pro-Western proselytization." I admit it would take much
longer for me to reach that point as a pro-
American/western/libertarianist slant is more to my personal tastes,
but at least I'm honest enough to say that as well.

> I still maintain that the place in which Nova Roma is incorporated
is an
> absolute non sequitur to the issue. It is not hypocritical on
those grounds to
> state anti-American opinions in the Nova Roman forum.

That's a difference of opinion between you and I, and I will concede
it is a minor side issue. However we do agree on the basic premise
(even if for completely different reasons) that Nova Roma is not an
appropriate forum for either pro/anti
Americanism/Westernism/whateverism.....

> The larger issue, i.e. whether the various fundaments of the Roman
state were
> essentially American and capitalist, whether some kinds of anti-
Americanism are
> congruous with at least some aspects of ancient Rome, etc. might
make an
> interesting conversation if it weren't almost certain to devolve
quickly into a
> rather brutal flame war.

Actually I believe the answer is yes, some various fundaments of the
Roman state are essentially what would today be considered American
and capitalist And it is also an equal yes to say that there are
various fundmanents of the Roman state that could be considered non-
American and socialist.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:02:33 -0600

Ave

As much as it pains me, I must agree with Scaevola. Free speech applies to
even dreaded communists. And I can't agree with the logic that
anti-Americanism is anti-Nova Romanism. Next thing you know we'll have a
Committee on Un-Nova Roman Activities.

GB Agricola

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:ben@callahans.org]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 9:38 AM
To: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
Cc: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>


On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 08:56:55AM -0600, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
wrote:
>
>
> > "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote his
> > anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> > philosophy.
>
> Good for him! This is a nation where we have free speech, and
> where multiple viewpoints can coexist.
>
> I welcome M. Villius and his refreshingly non-Bush-worshipping
> viewpoint.
>
> Speaking as a Senator and Director of this corporation, I affirm
> that their is nothing in our Constitution, Articles of Incorporation,
> or any other bylaws that favors pro-Bush or pro-American viewpoints
> over any others.

Just as fortunately, there's nothing prohibiting someone on this list
from expressing disagreement with those viewpoints. The right to free
speech does not include the right to have your opinion uncontested, or
even laughed at - and I certainly plan to exercise that right, since I
find Marxist and socialist viewpoints worthy of little beyond laughter.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
...et praeterea censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.
(Cato Sr. After a journey to Carthage, the Roman senator concluded every
speech
before the senate with this phrase, no matter the topic of discussion.)

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:41:24 -0800 (PST)

--- jlasalle <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Ave
>
> As much as it pains me, I must agree with Scaevola.
> Free speech applies to
> even dreaded communists. And I can't agree with the
> logic that
> anti-Americanism is anti-Nova Romanism. Next thing
> you know we'll have a
> Committee on Un-Nova Roman Activities.
>
> GB Agricola
>

(I Can't resist)
Will the Committee be asking

"Are you now or have you ever been a barbarian"? ;o)


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:44:58 -0800

LOL..and just what exactly defines a barbarian. <g>

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>



--- jlasalle <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Ave
>
> As much as it pains me, I must agree with Scaevola.
> Free speech applies to
> even dreaded communists. And I can't agree with the
> logic that
> anti-Americanism is anti-Nova Romanism. Next thing
> you know we'll have a
> Committee on Un-Nova Roman Activities.
>
> GB Agricola
>

(I Can't resist)
Will the Committee be asking

"Are you now or have you ever been a barbarian"? ;o)


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The forgotten letters of Emperor Claudius
From:	"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 19:49:35 -0000

Salvete,



Suetonius says that Emperor Claudius has invented three new letters
for the latin alphabet, but they have fallen on desuse after his
death, although they could be seen on some of his monuments.

Do someone has any idea or information what are they, or sounds like?



L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The forgotten letters of Emperor Claudius
From:	Gnaeus Octavius Noricus <cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:57:09 +0100

On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 19:49:35 -0000, Lucius Arminius Faustus wrote:
>Suetonius says that Emperor Claudius has invented three new letters
>for the latin alphabet, but they have fallen on desuse after his
>death, although they could be seen on some of his monuments.
>
>Do someone has any idea or information what are they, or sounds
like?

I can remember two of them right now:

First was an "I" with a dot (like our "i") that signified a long "ee"
sound.

Second was a letter for the voiced s (like the "z" in English) which
looked like a Greek Sigma turned 180 degrees.

Third one I'd have to look up.

I hope this is at least remotely correct :-)

--
Optime vale!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at
24.03.2003 20:52:39

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	24 Mar 2003 17:09:14 -0300

Em Seg, 2003-03-24 às 15:51, L. Cornelius Sulla escreveu:
> Ave Man. Villius
>
> I think your overstating the hundreds of thousands. Tens of thousands likely...
> hundreds of thousands...only if you count the multiple protests happening on
> different days when the same people might be coming out.
>

200.000 in NY alone last Saturday. More or less the same number in LA.


> And according to CNN, the approval for the war is hovering around 74%.
>

That makes some millions of US citizens not supporting the agression.
Several of them are even on this list. I agree with you 74% is quite
impressive.

In the remainder of the world (excpetion for UK) it is 70-90% opposed to
the war. Wonder why?

Manius Villius Limitanus.

> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michel Loos
> To: NovaRoma
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
>
>
> Em Seg, 2003-03-24 às 15:24, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> > <haase@c...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > "Che" Limitanus constantly uses Nova Roma to express and promote
> > his
> > > > anti-American and anti-Western Marxist/Socialist revolutionary
> > > > philosophy.
> > >
> > > Good for him! This is a nation where we have free speech, and
> > > where multiple viewpoints can coexist.
> > >
> > > I welcome M. Villius and his refreshingly non-Bush-worshipping
> > > viewpoint.
> > >
> > > Speaking as a Senator and Director of this corporation, I affirm
> > > that their is nothing in our Constitution, Articles of
> > Incorporation,
> > > or any other bylaws that favors pro-Bush or pro-American viewpoints
> > > over any others.
> >
> > Salve Octavius,
> >
> > And there is also nothing in the Constitution, Articles of
> > Incorporation, and any other by-laws that favor anti-Bush or anti-
> > American viewpoints over others. M. Villius "Che" Limitanus has the
> > right to express what I consider to be anti-American and anti-Western
> > political views if he so chooses. I also have the right to
> > publically state why I find such actions to be hypocritical.
>
> Dear Quintus Cassius "Mc-Carthy" Calvus.
>
> you have perfectly the right to dislike my opinions.
> They are not "anti-american". America goes from the Aleoutians to the
> Terra de Fogo. And they are certainly not in opposition to all
> governments of the states in America.
>
> I am american since I am brazilian. And I am in total agreement with the
> brazilian government.
>
> Do you misuse "american" for US citizen? Well I am not anti-US, I
> perfectly agree with the hundred of thousand US citizens that are
> manifesting each day against the agression of Iraq.
>
> Anti-Bush: sure that I am.
>
> Anti-western?: Certainly not, France, Germany, Brazil, Canada etc. are
> all western countries.
> Marx, Engels were western (Germans that worked in the UK).
> Marxism is a western ideology, which doesn't even understand oriental or
> middle-east cultures.
> What do you exactly mean by "western". US middle West?
>
> Salve
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The forgotten letters of Emperor Claudius
From:	John Walzer <jwalzer5@comcast.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:12:25 -0500

Salve Lucius:

According to a recent biography of Claudius:

"Before he came to power Claudius wrote a monograph advocating the introduction of new letters into the Latin alphabet. He put theory into practice as censor in 47. Tacitus follows his notice of this measure with a history of the alphabet, which may have formed part of a senatorial speech or edict by Claudius, or an extract from his treatise. Claudius' letters did not survive him, but Tacitus says thay could be seen on official inscriptions, and Suetonius mentions books, records, and monumental inscriptions. Claudius favoured -ai for -ae, as in Caisar, an antiquarian spelling of the diphthong, and his new letters rationalized spelling. The inverted digamma usefully stands for the "w" sound of v/u between vowels and is frequently found; what may have been a western Greek psi for b+s and p+s, less useful because it merely abbreviated a combination, is not epigraphically attested; and a rough breathing half-H or more plausibly a fifth century BCE Boeotian vowel character, for "y", the Greek upsilon, as in the name Nymphius, in Latin a sound between e and i, has given rise to modern controversy. Claudius was well versed in Greek."

I hope this was helpful.

Vale

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:49 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The forgotten letters of Emperor Claudius


Salvete,



Suetonius says that Emperor Claudius has invented three new letters
for the latin alphabet, but they have fallen on desuse after his
death, although they could be seen on some of his monuments.

Do someone has any idea or information what are they, or sounds like?



L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Mail & Availability
From:	"L. Didius Geminus Sceptius" <sceptia@yahoo.es>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:20:11 +0100

Salvete omnes.

[ENGLISH]
I'd like to announce that due to a new schedule on my working timetable and next job project (I'm running for being a Civil Servant in my city) I can reply/post messages just once a week. I'll set it on saturday evening but on urgent replys I'll try to answer as soon as possible.

This will reduce my contribution to the Main List, Thules Academy, F.Apulus Caesar Cohors Aedilis and Hispania Provincial List. However, Naumachiae will be done and the Philosophy course finished as soon as possible. And on the other hand, I'll do my job as Tribunus Plebis but I suggest any Citizen or Magistrate that would need my help to consider that if his message is urgent he shall treat it as so and include a mark of "Urgent!" on the subject.

I hope you would be comprehensive to my new status, because I must cram my duties in macronational life as well as in Nova Roma.

Thank you all in advance,

vale bene,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
========================
TB·PL·NOVA·ROMA·2756·AUC


[ESPAÑOL]
Debo anunciar que debido a una reorganización en mi tiempo de trabajo y proyecto futuro (Me presento a Funcionario Público en mi ciudad) solo podré responder/escribir mensajes una vez a la semana. El día establecido será el sábado por la tarde, pero si es menester una respuesta rápida trataré de darla lo antes posible. Esto minimizará mis contribuciones a la Lista Principal, la Academia Thules, la Cohors de F. Apulus Caesar y la Lista Provincial de Hispania. Sin embargo, la Naumaquia se realizará igualmente y el curso de Filosofía será finalizado tan pronto como sea posible. Y por otro lado, seguiré haciendo mi trabajo como Tribunus Plebis, aunque sugiero a todo ciudadano o magistrado que necesite mi ayuda que incluya, si lo considera realmente necesario, la palabra "¡Urgente!" en el encabezado
de sus mensajes.

Espero que seais comprensivos con mi nueva situación, pues debo comprimir todas mis obligaciones de la vida diaria así como las de Nova Roma lo más que pueda.

Gracias a todos,

vale bene,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
========================
TB·PL·NOVA·ROMA·2756·AUC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:20:18 -0000

>
> Dear Quintus Cassius "Mc-Carthy" Calvus.

That is fair. Romans often gave eachother "nicknames" sometimes
pleasant and sometimes otherwise. However there is no hyphen in
McCarthy.

>
> you have perfectly the right to dislike my opinions.
> They are not "anti-american". America goes from the Aleoutians to
the
> Terra de Fogo. And they are certainly not in opposition to all
> governments of the states in America.

I see when you wish to express something good about America you are
refering to two continents. When you use America in reference
something negative it only applies to the country that shares a
border with the Estados Unidos Mexicanos and Canada?

> I am american since I am brazilian. And I am in total agreement
with the
> brazilian government.
>
> Do you misuse "american" for US citizen?

Piece of advice, don't call a Canadian, "American." They will rapidly
disabuse one of the notion that the term "American" can refer to
anyone who lives on either the continent of North or South America.


>Well I am not anti-US, I
> perfectly agree with the hundred of thousand US citizens that are
> manifesting each day against the agression of Iraq.

I'm sure you mean the agression IN Iraq, not of Iraq.

> Anti-Bush: sure that I am.

In some ways believe it or not so am I. I think his economic policy
is a total disaster and as Senator Kerry said, "If he could find $6
Billion to bribe Turkey he can find $6 Billion for education."

>
> Anti-western?: Certainly not, France, Germany, Brazil, Canada etc.
are
> all western countries.
> Marx, Engels were western (Germans that worked in the UK).
> Marxism is a western ideology, which doesn't even understand
oriental or
> middle-east cultures.
> What do you exactly mean by "western". US middle West?


So you're not anti-western, just anti one specific western country.


Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Pompeian Homes -- Part I
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:23:36 -0500 (EST)

The home of Caecilius differs in many aspects from that of a modern
design. The reasons for this are generally climate and a nearness to
the street. Since th house was built right up to the sidewalk,there was
no room for a measure of lawn or garden in front of it as we in the
modern day are used to seeing. The wealthy citizens in Rome and Roman
cities could afford a house designed to meet both thier needs and thier
desires as well.

The few window openings in this house were not at all large and were
designed to be well off the street level. Windows were placed to let in
sufficient light, while screening the inside of the home from the heat
of the sun. In addition, had larger windows been designed then the home
would have been unnecissarly hot in summer and the winter cold would
have a better access to the home interior.

Most homes were one story structures, but some homes did have a second
story above the first. The exterio appearance of the home was somewhat
sinister with it's high wall reaching all around the home and the few
windows being high up and very small. However this design was dedicated
to preventing both excessive noise from the outside streets, as well as
to provide a security and privacy to those who lived within.

The layout of the home is a rectangle with he short side facing the
street and making up the rear of the home. This rectangle is divided
into two early equal parts, both of which are constructed in a similar
manner. Each half of this home is constructed as a central area, around
which smaller roms are arranged which open onto the open area.

In the first half of the home beginning at the street is the Main
entrance. This door was a large double door, known as the "ianua" in
Latin. The roof was covered with tiles, and often the tile support
beams were decorated by carvings or plaster moldings on the end which
extended beyond the roof itself to express the design ideas of those who
designed the home.

The Pompeian House is based therefore, upon the principle of excluding
the sun, and they look inwards upon sheltered courts, with few openings
to the outside.

To Be Continued

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!

Subject:	Fw: [Nova-Roma] The forgotten letters of Emperor Claudius
From:	John Walzer <jwalzer5@comcast.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:24:44 -0500

Salvete:

The last two lines of my reply to Lucius Arminius Faustus seem to have gotten garbled in the original transmission. Below (I hope) is the complete transmission. Sorry for the duplication.

Valete

L. Suetonius Nerva

----- Original Message -----
From: John Walzer
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The forgotten letters of Emperor Claudius


Salve Lucius:

According to a recent biography of Claudius:

"Before he came to power Claudius wrote a monograph advocating the introduction of new letters into the Latin alphabet. He put theory into practice as censor in 47. Tacitus follows his notice of this measure with a history of the alphabet, which may have formed part of a senatorial speech or edict by Claudius, or an extract from his treatise. Claudius' letters did not survive him, but Tacitus says thay could be seen on official inscriptions, and Suetonius mentions books, records, and monumental inscriptions. Claudius favoured -ai for -ae, as in Caisar, an antiquarian spelling of the diphthong, and his new letters rationalized spelling. The inverted digamma usefully stands for the "w" sound of v/u between vowels and is frequently found; what may have been a western Greek psi for b+s and p+s, less useful because it merely abbreviated a combination, is not epigraphically attested; and a rough breathing half-H or more plausibly a fifth century BCE Boeotian vowel character, for "y", the Greek upsilon, as in the name Nymphius, in Latin a sound between e and i, has given rise to modern controversy. Claudius was well versed in Greek."

I hope this was helpful.

Vale

L. Suetonius Nerva
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:49 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The forgotten letters of Emperor Claudius


Salvete,



Suetonius says that Emperor Claudius has invented three new letters
for the latin alphabet, but they have fallen on desuse after his
death, although they could be seen on some of his monuments.

Do someone has any idea or information what are they, or sounds like?



L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:26:24 -0000

>
> That makes some millions of US citizens not supporting the
agression.
> Several of them are even on this list. I agree with you 74% is quite
> impressive.
>
> In the remainder of the world (excpetion for UK) it is 70-90%
opposed to
> the war. Wonder why?

Simple, they get all the benefits of a Saddamless world without
paying any of the costs and can thump their chests on how they stood
up against the "Evil Bush Empire." Then when the dust has settled
and they're in need of a favor from the "Evil Bush Empire" they will
suddenly be putting lip lock around the "Evil Bush Empire's"
diplomatic posterior.

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:34:29 -0500

On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 11:41:24AM -0800, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> (I Can't resist)
> Will the Committee be asking
>
> "Are you now or have you ever been a barbarian"? ;o)

"I have here in my hand a list of 205 names that were made known to the
Consuls as being barbarians and who nevertheless are still working and
shaping policy in Nova Roma..."

<shudder>

(For those who don't know what that's about, that's a paraphrase of the
beginning of Joseph McCarthy's speech that started the witch-hunt for
communists in the US Department of State.)


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Navigare necesse est.
To sail is necessary.
-- Plutarchos

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Gods of War / Roman Bridges
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:01:19 -0500 (EST)

GB Agricola;

My thanks for the Ronda Website. Very nice view of the bridge!!!! When
I was in Ronda some years ago, everyone who spoke too about the bridge
insisted that it was a Roan bridge of probably the 3rd or 4th Century.
I took those people at thier word, which perhaps was a bit of fiction
fed to an interesed American. However. like yourself, I thought that it
looked like a Roman Bridge, and the several Spaish people that I spoke
to at different times and places told the same story.

Unfortunately, it is very easy to lead me astray, when I admire both the
object of my attention, and the people associated with it. I guess that
is called being "gullible!!!!!!!!!"

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	24 Mar 2003 18:16:01 -0300

Em Seg, 2003-03-24 às 17:20, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> >
> > Dear Quintus Cassius "Mc-Carthy" Calvus.
>
> That is fair. Romans often gave eachother "nicknames" sometimes
> pleasant and sometimes otherwise. However there is no hyphen in
> McCarthy.
>
> >
> > you have perfectly the right to dislike my opinions.
> > They are not "anti-american". America goes from the Aleoutians to
> the
> > Terra de Fogo. And they are certainly not in opposition to all
> > governments of the states in America.
>
> I see when you wish to express something good about America you are
> refering to two continents. When you use America in reference
> something negative it only applies to the country that shares a
> border with the Estados Unidos Mexicanos and Canada?
>

You will find no mail of me using the word America for refering to the
USA. I use USA or more often just US.

> > I am american since I am brazilian. And I am in total agreement
> with the
> > brazilian government.
> >
> > Do you misuse "american" for US citizen?
>
> Piece of advice, don't call a Canadian, "American." They will rapidly
> disabuse one of the notion that the term "American" can refer to
> anyone who lives on either the continent of North or South America.
>
>
> >Well I am not anti-US, I
> > perfectly agree with the hundred of thousand US citizens that are
> > manifesting each day against the agression of Iraq.
>
> I'm sure you mean the agression IN Iraq, not of Iraq.
>
> > Anti-Bush: sure that I am.
>
> In some ways believe it or not so am I. I think his economic policy
> is a total disaster and as Senator Kerry said, "If he could find $6
> Billion to bribe Turkey he can find $6 Billion for education."
>

At least a point of agreement.

> >
> > Anti-western?: Certainly not, France, Germany, Brazil, Canada etc.
> are
> > all western countries.
> > Marx, Engels were western (Germans that worked in the UK).
> > Marxism is a western ideology, which doesn't even understand
> oriental or
> > middle-east cultures.
> > What do you exactly mean by "western". US middle West?
>
>
> So you're not anti-western, just anti one specific western country.
>
>

Not even that, just like you claim not being anti-Iraq just anti-Saddam.
I have absolutely nothing against the USA. Just against the current
international politics (well for some 40 years).

The USA treated fine several international problems in the 50s-early
60s.

1956: UK, France and Israel attack Egypt in order to secure the Suez
Canal. They are stopped by a joint USSR/USA "diplomacy" (threat). Well
done.

1962: Cuba Missile Crisis: that was a real danger for the USA. They
resolved the problem, disarmed Cuba all by diplomatic measures and with
the support of all America. Well done again.

Vale,

Manius Villius Limitanus

--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:32:33 -0600

A barbarian to the Greeks meant someone who didn't speak Greek, or a
barbaroi.

-----Original Message-----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla [mailto:alexious@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:45 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>


LOL..and just what exactly defines a barbarian. <g>

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>



--- jlasalle <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Ave
>
> As much as it pains me, I must agree with Scaevola.
> Free speech applies to
> even dreaded communists. And I can't agree with the
> logic that
> anti-Americanism is anti-Nova Romanism. Next thing
> you know we'll have a
> Committee on Un-Nova Roman Activities.
>
> GB Agricola
>

(I Can't resist)
Will the Committee be asking

"Are you now or have you ever been a barbarian"? ;o)


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:54:49 -0000

Salve Manius Villius Limitanus,

Please note I'm dropping the "Che" as that was childish name calling
on my part. Please accept my apologies for it.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
> You will find no mail of me using the word America for refering to
the
> USA. I use USA or more often just US.

I will take you at your word that what you say is indeed the case.

> Not even that, just like you claim not being anti-Iraq just anti-
> Saddam.
> I have absolutely nothing against the USA. Just against the current
> international politics (well for some 40 years).

Thank you for that clarification. I have no reason to believe that
you aren't a man of your word. In light of that clarification of
your statements I can no longer consider your statements to have been
made as anti-USA and anti-citizens of the USA in general but against
particular policies of the government of the United States.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:37:18 -0500

Salve but the joke was on those who opposed McCarthy.

There WERE Communists spies in the State Department and other government
agency as proven by the Verona intercepts.
( Yes the USA was listening in on the Soviets) There may not have been "205"
but how many was too many.

McCarthy may have been wrong in his tactics but not in his goals

A free and safe USA.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


----- Original Message -----
From: "Caius Minucius Scaevola" <ben@callahans.org>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>


> On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 11:41:24AM -0800, L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> >
> > (I Can't resist)
> > Will the Committee be asking
> >
> > "Are you now or have you ever been a barbarian"? ;o)
>
> "I have here in my hand a list of 205 names that were made known to the
> Consuls as being barbarians and who nevertheless are still working and
> shaping policy in Nova Roma..."
>
> <shudder>
>
> (For those who don't know what that's about, that's a paraphrase of the
> beginning of Joseph McCarthy's speech that started the witch-hunt for
> communists in the US Department of State.)
>
>
> Vale,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Navigare necesse est.
> To sail is necessary.
> -- Plutarchos
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Mail & Availability
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:49:44 -0500

Salve

As a former candidate in the USA myself I wish you the best of luck in your
Campaign!!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Didius Geminus Sceptius" <sceptia@yahoo.es>
To: "NR Hispania" <NRHispania@yahoogroups.com>;
<cohors_fac@yahoogroups.com>; <thuleacademia@yahoogroups.com>; "Tribunado"
<tribunes@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:20 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mail & Availability


Salvete omnes.

[ENGLISH]
I'd like to announce that due to a new schedule on my working timetable and
next job project (I'm running for being a Civil Servant in my city) I can
reply/post messages just once a week. I'll set it on saturday evening but on
urgent replys I'll try to answer as soon as possible.

This will reduce my contribution to the Main List, Thules Academy, F.Apulus
Caesar Cohors Aedilis and Hispania Provincial List. However, Naumachiae will
be done and the Philosophy course finished as soon as possible. And on the
other hand, I'll do my job as Tribunus Plebis but I suggest any Citizen or
Magistrate that would need my help to consider that if his message is urgent
he shall treat it as so and include a mark of "Urgent!" on the subject.

I hope you would be comprehensive to my new status, because I must cram my
duties in macronational life as well as in Nova Roma.

Thank you all in advance,

vale bene,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
========================
TB·PL·NOVA·ROMA·2756·AUC


[ESPAÑOL]
Debo anunciar que debido a una reorganización en mi tiempo de trabajo y
proyecto futuro (Me presento a Funcionario Público en mi ciudad) solo podré
responder/escribir mensajes una vez a la semana. El día establecido será el
sábado por la tarde, pero si es menester una respuesta rápida trataré de
darla lo antes posible. Esto minimizará mis contribuciones a la Lista
Principal, la Academia Thules, la Cohors de F. Apulus Caesar y la Lista
Provincial de Hispania. Sin embargo, la Naumaquia se realizará igualmente y
el curso de Filosofía será finalizado tan pronto como sea posible. Y por
otro lado, seguiré haciendo mi trabajo como Tribunus Plebis, aunque sugiero
a todo ciudadano o magistrado que necesite mi ayuda que incluya, si lo
considera realmente necesario, la palabra "¡Urgente!" en el encabezado
de sus mensajes.

Espero que seais comprensivos con mi nueva situación, pues debo comprimir
todas mis obligaciones de la vida diaria así como las de Nova Roma lo más
que pueda.

Gracias a todos,

vale bene,

L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
========================
TB·PL·NOVA·ROMA·2756·AUC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:59:01 -0500

On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 05:37:18PM -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> Salve but the joke was on those who opposed McCarthy.
>
> There WERE Communists spies in the State Department and other government
> agency as proven by the Verona intercepts.
> ( Yes the USA was listening in on the Soviets) There may not have been "205"
> but how many was too many.

The USSR would have been stupid not to have any - and the US would have
been even more stupid not to realize it. However, there are many
intelligent people working for both governments, and it was "business as
usual". McCarthy's ravings would have had zero-to-minimal influence on
the actual situation.

"how [sic] many was too many" is a statement with no meaning; there will
always be intelligence agents working under cover, and other intel
agents working to root them out. When I was in Military Intelligence, I
learned that almost *anyone* can be "turned" with trivial ease; you have
no way to resist if they want you. It is up to your superiors, if you're
in a sensitive position, to watch out for this (your life, however,
*will* usually be destroyed in the process. <shrug> One of the possible
costs of high position.) "There are more things in heaven and earth,
Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

> McCarthy may have been wrong in his tactics but not in his goals
>
> A free and safe USA.

You may want to read your history books a bit more closely. McCarthy's
goals had nothing to do with a "free and safe USA"; he was after
political power, and he was trying to "jump past" the standard process
of scaling the ladder. Come to think of it, somewhat reminiscent of how
Saddam came to power, although it was complete destruction of
reputation, ability to work, etc. instead of outright murder.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Concordia parvae res crescunt, discordia maximae dilabuntur.
Through unity the small thing grows, through disunity the largest thing crumbles.
-- Sallust, "Jugurtha"

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The forgotten letters of Emperor Claudius
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:28:54 EST

In a message dated 3/24/03 11:59:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at writes:


> First was an "I" with a dot (like our "i") that signified a long "ee"
> sound.
>

I remember this one. It appears on one of his proclamations. I don't have
the AE number.
I forget the other two. BTW the heading on this is misleading. Perhaps it
should be
"Claudius' additions to the Roman Alphabet."

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:49:08 -0600

Ave

Scaevola, you can make your point without resorting to personal insults. I
myself have made a real effort where this is concerned. Some people, and I
could be wrong, and I'm sure you'll point it out, react negatively to
statements like "Your statement has no meaning" or "read your history books
a little closer".

Dale Carnegie has a great book on this issue.

GB Agricola

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:ben@callahans.org]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 4:59 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Anti-Americanism and a reminder (private>


On Mon, Mar 24, 2003 at 05:37:18PM -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> Salve but the joke was on those who opposed McCarthy.
>
> There WERE Communists spies in the State Department and other government
> agency as proven by the Verona intercepts.
> ( Yes the USA was listening in on the Soviets) There may not have been
"205"
> but how many was too many.

The USSR would have been stupid not to have any - and the US would have
been even more stupid not to realize it. However, there are many
intelligent people working for both governments, and it was "business as
usual". McCarthy's ravings would have had zero-to-minimal influence on
the actual situation.

"how [sic] many was too many" is a statement with no meaning; there will
always be intelligence agents working under cover, and other intel
agents working to root them out. When I was in Military Intelligence, I
learned that almost *anyone* can be "turned" with trivial ease; you have
no way to resist if they want you. It is up to your superiors, if you're
in a sensitive position, to watch out for this (your life, however,
*will* usually be destroyed in the process. <shrug> One of the possible
costs of high position.) "There are more things in heaven and earth,
Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

> McCarthy may have been wrong in his tactics but not in his goals
>
> A free and safe USA.

You may want to read your history books a bit more closely. McCarthy's
goals had nothing to do with a "free and safe USA"; he was after
political power, and he was trying to "jump past" the standard process
of scaling the ladder. Come to think of it, somewhat reminiscent of how
Saddam came to power, although it was complete destruction of
reputation, ability to work, etc. instead of outright murder.


Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Concordia parvae res crescunt, discordia maximae dilabuntur.
Through unity the small thing grows, through disunity the largest thing
crumbles.
-- Sallust, "Jugurtha"