Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] ooops - Rome in the medieval church (sort of)
From:	Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla <hedeabianchia@unc.edu>
Date:	Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:41:50 -0500

forgot the essay

--On Thursday, March 27, 2003 5:35 PM -0500 Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
<hedeabianchia@unc.edu> wrote:

> I'm attaching an essay I did on the influence ancient Rome had on the
> culture and such stuff of the time period containing charlemagne and
> decretum gratiani
>
> any comments would be most welcome! (I am no good at papers or
> proofreading)
>
> Dryantilla
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Roman Province (?) of Assyria
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:37:21 -0500 (EST)

Master Nerva;

Not much here:

"ASSYRIA: This territory bcame a province under Trajanin 116 but was
abandoned by Hadrian."

A map of the Empire in AD 117 (Fig,3.5) shows Assyria as a province
bounded on the West by the Tigris River and the Province of Mesoptamia.
It is bounded on the North by Armenia Major which stretches between the
Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. Its Eastern boundary appears to be the
mountain chain running NW to SE just inside the present day country of
Iran. A map of the Empire in A D 211 shows Syria Coele as the
Eastern-most province, which now includes Mesopotamia, but which is no
longer listed by name.

"The Empire at Its Peak (Fig, 3.5) --

封謬rajan annexed Dacia and Arabia and took control of the new
provinces of Armenia, Mesopotamia, and Assyria from Parthia. Recurring
problems had risen on the Northern frontiers in Britain and on the Rhine
- Danube, and successive emperors attempted to strengthen these
frontiers. During the early second century, under Trajan, Pannonia was
divided into two provinces, (Upper and Lower Pannonia) , and under
Hadrian, Dacia was divided into two and then into three. The empire
reached it's maximum extent under Trajan, but his successor Hadrian was
concerned with securing the frontiers and abandoned some of the
territory won by Trajan. From the time of Hadrian, the empire ceased to
expand and remained relatively stable."

Legions which were assigned to Syria in AD 74 are listed as III Gallica,
and the IV Scythica. Legions which were assigned to Syria in AD 150 are
listed as III Gallica, IV Scythica and the XVI Flavia Firma. No Legions
are listed as being stationed in Assyria.

Reference:

"Handbook To Life In Ancient Rome," Adkins and Adkins, Oxford University
Press, Oxford / New York, 1998

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] ooops - Rome in the medieval church (sort of)
From:	Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla <hedeabianchia@unc.edu>
Date:	Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:35:26 -0500

I am so sorry for the multiple useless emails. If anone is interested in
my essay, I have uncluded it below rather than in an attachment, since
attachments can't be sent through the list.

Gratias ago propter patientiam vestram.

Dryantilla

----------------------------------------------------

The Via Romana, an ideal carried out in many ways by the Christian church,
was once the epitome of morality and civilization. It included personal
virtues such as clementia (mercy), dignitas (dignity), pietas (piety), and
veritas (truthfulness), as well as public virtues such as aequitas (fair
dealing), iustita (justice), and pudicita (modesty, chastity). The
Burgundian Code, Einhard's Life of Charlemagne, and excerpts from The
Decretum show the continuation of Roman ideals and the Christianization of
these ideals which become part of the Medieval Church.
The Burgundian Code is a law code from the late fifth and early sixth
century compiled by the Burgundians, who ruled much of Gaul. The existence
of the code itself shows the continuation of Roman culture: the Romans set
a precedence with her emphasis on written law as a basis of social order
and sign of authority. The laws expressed in the Code attempt to align
Roman and Germanic culture. Romans are treated similarly to Burgundian
nobility, showing an attempt by the Germanic tribe to make themselves equal
to Romans that contains the idea that Romans had been in some way superior
to the "barbarians." The Code also established a wergeld, or value, for
each person. This also had Roman precedence: table seven of Rome's original
written law, the Law of the Twelve Tables, had a phrase stating that man
who had broken a freeman's bone would have a penalty of 300 pieces, where
if he had broken the bone of a slave, the penalty would be 150 pieces. In
The Burgundian Code, every penalty carried a different price for different
societal classes. Written "for the love of justice, through which God is
pleased and the power of earthly kingdoms acquired," it connected the Roman
customs of written law for the sake of iustita and aequitas with the later
practice of writing canon law for the glory of the Christian God. In
addition to laws coming from roman precedence, the law code resembled the
Old Testament book of Exodus. By dedicating their laws to both justice and
to God, the Burgundians aligned both Roman and Christian ideals.
Charlemagne was considered by many, including Einhard, to be a truly great
ruler. Einhard, a friend and advisor, modeled his Life of Charlemagne after
the biographical writings of Suetonius, a Roman; fitting after Charlemagne
received the title of "Roman Emperor." In book three, Einhard describes not
only the personal appearance and daily habits of Charlemagne, but also his
ideas on education, royalty, and the Church. His personal behavior is
described as both temperate and moderate. In the first century C.E., Livy
wrote of Bacchanalia and the disapproval of Romans for the promiscuity and
debaucheries of the cult's initiates, where it was wondered how men with
such vices in their background could "be champions for the chastity" of
Roman women and children. More of an Apollo than a Dionysius, Charlemagne
practiced this moderation both in drink and food, as well as avoiding
entertainments, studying classical authors such as Augustine, and having an
eloquence in several foreign languages, including Latin. His children he
raised with a liberal education, placing such importance on them that he
never ate a meal at home without them, nor went on a journey except they
where with him. As for his attitude toward the church and his power: he
expressed the sentiment that power should be once again held in Rome
through his wish that he could both restore the "ancient authority" of the
city of Rome and also protect the Church of St Peter through his care and
influence. Charlemagne was shown as having a deep reverence for both
ancient learning, listening to "stories and deeds of olden time" during
dinner, and for Christianity, heaping riches upon the church in Rome.
In 530, Justinian collected the Corpus Iuris Civilis, a text containing a
mixture of the laws, senatorial consults, imperial decrees, cases, and
opinions of jurists that formed Roman law and custom. The codex was
organized according to subject, with laws or opinions taken from various
sources, such as "Ulpianus, On the Julian Law Relating to Adultery, Book
II," and presented as determining factors on that subject. Every decision
is supported by different authorities, from laws such as the "Lex Julia et
Papia" to opinions of Augustus and famous lawyers, to letters from
emperors, such as a letter from Emperor Alexander to Julian, Proconsul of
the Province of Narbonne. The Decretum Gratiani, though canon law, was
modeled after Justinian's law code. Case twenty-seven deals with both the
definition of marriage and with vows of chastity. As sources, various
Synods and Councils are quoted, as are Origen, Jerome, Augustine, and
others. Though it quotes early church fathers, and occasionally the Bible,
The Decretum mirrors not only apostolic ideals, but also the ideals of the
Roman Way, as well as showing an emphasis on written law that persists
today. The Romans were not as debaucherous as assumed today: the legend of
the rape of Lucretia is an example of their idealization of pudicity:
Lucretia, a married woman, is honored because she killed herself out of a
love of virtue after being raped by the Sextus Tarquinas. The greatest
emphasis on chastity in Roman religion is found in the case of the goddess
Vesta and her virgin priestesses. This extreme regard for chastity carried
the penalty of being buried alive if the vow was broken. While The Decretum
did not condone the living inhumation of virgins who had broken their vows,
it did use council decisions and opinions of patristic age authors to
justify forcibly isolating those who would not return to monastery.
The Medieval Church built customs on history. Since it came to power in
Rome, eventually being recognized as the official religion, it would have
been natural for some practices to be adopted. Ideals of the "pagan"
society were adopted and exemplified through the lives of influential
Christians, such as Charlemagne. Ideals of virtue, including justice and
chastity, which had so permeated Roman life became apostolic ideals.
Tertullian, Augustine, Jerome, and others studied classical works, such as
the writings of Cicero. Works from the fall of Rome through the mid-twelfth
century contained not only Roman ideals, but they were modeled after
various works from Rome. Einhard copied the style of a Roman biographer and
The Decretum Gratiani was also called Corpus Iuris Canonici. Roman culture
became embedded in the learned culture of Europe, and therefore the
Medieval Church.

--On Thursday, March 27, 2003 6:41 PM -0500 Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
<hedeabianchia@unc.edu> wrote:

> forgot the essay
>
> --On Thursday, March 27, 2003 5:35 PM -0500 Hedea Bianchia Dryantilla
> <hedeabianchia@unc.edu> wrote:
>
>> I'm attaching an essay I did on the influence ancient Rome had on the
>> culture and such stuff of the time period containing charlemagne and
>> decretum gratiani
>>
>> any comments would be most welcome! (I am no good at papers or
>> proofreading)
>>
>> Dryantilla
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Roman Province (?) of Assyria
From:	John Walzer <jwalzer5@comcast.net>
Date:	Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:05:48 -0500

Salve Marcus:

Thank you for your gracious and informative response.

I was aware of the Emperor Hadrian's abandonment of Assyria, and the other provincial attritions which Hadrian enacted I was not aware that no Legions were adjudicated to Assyria, though I can't say I'm surprised. I would welcome the opinion of any military expert on this issue: are there any military experts in NOVA ROMA? Was Assyria a viable province of the Roman Empire, and what troops were posted to protect it.

Tibi gratias ago!

L. Suetonius Nerva

----- Original Message -----
From: MarcusAudens@webtv.net
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Roman Province (?) of Assyria

Master Nerva;

Not much here:

"ASSYRIA: This territory bcame a province under Trajanin 116 but was
abandoned by Hadrian."

A map of the Empire in AD 117 (Fig,3.5) shows Assyria as a province
bounded on the West by the Tigris River and the Province of Mesoptamia.
It is bounded on the North by Armenia Major which stretches between the
Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. Its Eastern boundary appears to be the
mountain chain running NW to SE just inside the present day country of
Iran. A map of the Empire in A D 211 shows Syria Coele as the
Eastern-most province, which now includes Mesopotamia, but which is no
longer listed by name.

"The Empire at Its Peak (Fig, 3.5) --

...Trajan annexed Dacia and Arabia and took control of the new
provinces of Armenia, Mesopotamia, and Assyria from Parthia. Recurring
problems had risen on the Northern frontiers in Britain and on the Rhine
- Danube, and successive emperors attempted to strengthen these
frontiers. During the early second century, under Trajan, Pannonia was
divided into two provinces, (Upper and Lower Pannonia) , and under
Hadrian, Dacia was divided into two and then into three. The empire
reached it's maximum extent under Trajan, but his successor Hadrian was
concerned with securing the frontiers and abandoned some of the
territory won by Trajan. From the time of Hadrian, the empire ceased to
expand and remained relatively stable."

Legions which were assigned to Syria in AD 74 are listed as III Gallica,
and the IV Scythica. Legions which were assigned to Syria in AD 150 are
listed as III Gallica, IV Scythica and the XVI Flavia Firma. No Legions
are listed as being stationed in Assyria.

Reference:

"Handbook To Life In Ancient Rome," Adkins and Adkins, Oxford University
Press, Oxford / New York, 1998

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Asterix
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:29:47 -0000

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Caesariensis.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, me-in-@d... wrote:
> Despite Roman credentials, I remain a devotee of that Great and
> Noble H駻os de la Premi鑽e R駸istance, Ast駻ix le Gaulois. What
> other strip cartoon invariably includes phrases such as "Alea iacta
> est" and a Greek inscription of insulting both authors? Something I
> have never understood though is that apart from The Great Man
> Himself and his sidekick Ob駘ix, the English names are a
> lot 'punnier' than the originals. Maugr� my francophilia, I do find
> the French sense of humour to be so subtly sophisticated as to be
> nigh on undetectable. Beliefs that the Germans have no sense of
> humour are quite wrong: that will laugh at anything involving
> mothers-in-law, breasts, lavatories or somebody getting hurt. Much
> the same as traditional English Music Hall (gods spare us!), the
> prospect of one's vast-bosomed Schwiegermutter tripping over her
> knickers to brain herself on the toilet is likely to leave not a
> seat dry in the house. The French are not like that. They are more
> likely to look supercilious at any of that while collapsing
> hysterically over some obscure background detail requiring
> a magnifying glass in a depiction of Saddam Hussein. "Ils sont
> fous, ces fran軋is". So I can just see that calling the Chief
> General-Assurance because the sky might fall on his head is rather
> funny. On the other hand, Unhygienix seems an excellent name for a
> dodgy fishmonger in either language and Getafix surely has some
> French equivalent far more suitable to a Druidic purveyor of pills
> potions and alternate realities than Panoramix.
> Emlightenment from citoyen[ne]s de la Continent, peut-黎re?
>
> Caesariensis

I qualify as a citizen of the Continent, although not as a French.
But I have certainly been an "Ast駻ix" fan since early childhood :-).

And you are right; the French name of the characters in "Ast駻ix" are
truly hilarious.

My own personal favourite is Assourancetourix, or "All-Risk
Insurance", the bard of the hamlet. I also enjoy the name Goudurix,
or "Pleasure in Risk"; the name of the chief's nephew that is so
cowardly as to instill fear in the hearts of the Normans (who did not
know fear before). And what to say about Id馥fix ("Fixed Mind"),
Ob駘ix's little dog, who is certainly not known for his lack of
resolution.

If you like Goscinny's sense of humour, you should also look for "Le
Petit Nicholas". Those little books are truly incredible; and they
will change your view of childhood forever. And our American friends
should not miss "Lucky Luke"; besides having fun, they will discover
a few interesting aspects about the history of their nation. And they
will also discover who Ran Tan Plan and Averell Dalton are; that
alone is a reason to learn French :-).

CNｷSALIXｷASTVRｷTｷFｷAｷNEPｷTRIBｷOVF


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Roman Province (?) of Assyria
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:47:12 EST

In a message dated 3/27/03 2:40:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jwalzer5@comcast.net writes:

> This was a province, supposedly created by the Emperor Trajan, but I have
> been unable to uncover any factual evidence of its existence. It
> was,supposedly, a province beyond the Tigris River, and existed sometime
> between 116-117 CE. Was a Roman governor ever appointed to this province?
> Was any acknowledgment of said conquest ever attested by the Roman Senate?
>
>

It was a province, constituted in 116, but came into being by conquest,
during Trajanus' lighting campaign to conquer the Parthians. It was short
lived, the Ascrid dynasty never recognized this province according to Dio.
By 116, Trajanus had taken Ctesiphon and the Ascrid king Osroes fled.
Trajanus then made this into the province Mesopotamia. Both Assyria and
Mesopotamia were to be Imperial provinces as Egypt. They were to be ruled by
Praetorian Prefects appointed by the Emperor.
Trajanus had extended the Roman empire to its greatest limits. He was said
to weep since he was too old to emulate Alexander III. He must have known
his time was running out.
His last campaign was against Hatra in the Mesopotamian Valley. The heat and
sandstorms drove the Romans back and the city was never conquered. He
wintered in Antioch for the last time, and was dead by Aug, 117. When he
died, Armenia was about to be a province,
Assyria was a province in revolt and the client king Abgar VII of Edessa in
Syria had rebelled. Hadrianus wisely saw there was no way to hold on to the
conquests and returned
to the Parthian client kings their provinces, including Assyria, removed the
puppet from Armenia, and returned Mesopotamia to the Parthians in return for
a fifty year peace.

QFABIVSMAXIMVS
Sources
Cassius Dio "Roman History"
Various "Augustan Histories"
Arrianus "Parthica"
Frontous "Principa Historiae"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] The Roman Province (?) of Assyria
From:	John Walzer <jwalzer5@comcast.net>
Date:	Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:56:43 -0500

Thanks to all who have so graciously responded to my query
----- Original Message -----
From: qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Roman Province (?) of Assyria

In a message dated 3/27/03 2:40:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jwalzer5@comcast.net writes:

> This was a province, supposedly created by the Emperor Trajan, but I have
> been unable to uncover any factual evidence of its existence. It
> was,supposedly, a province beyond the Tigris River, and existed sometime
> between 116-117 CE. Was a Roman governor ever appointed to this province?
> Was any acknowledgment of said conquest ever attested by the Roman Senate?
>
>

It was a province, constituted in 116, but came into being by conquest,
during Trajanus' lighting campaign to conquer the Parthians. It was short
lived, the Ascrid dynasty never recognized this province according to Dio.
By 116, Trajanus had taken Ctesiphon and the Ascrid king Osroes fled.
Trajanus then made this into the province Mesopotamia. Both Assyria and
Mesopotamia were to be Imperial provinces as Egypt. They were to be ruled by
Praetorian Prefects appointed by the Emperor.
Trajanus had extended the Roman empire to its greatest limits. He was said
to weep since he was too old to emulate Alexander III. He must have known
his time was running out.
His last campaign was against Hatra in the Mesopotamian Valley. The heat and
sandstorms drove the Romans back and the city was never conquered. He
wintered in Antioch for the last time, and was dead by Aug, 117. When he
died, Armenia was about to be a province,
Assyria was a province in revolt and the client king Abgar VII of Edessa in
Syria had rebelled. Hadrianus wisely saw there was no way to hold on to the
conquests and returned
to the Parthian client kings their provinces, including Assyria, removed the
puppet from Armenia, and returned Mesopotamia to the Parthians in return for
a fifty year peace.

QFABIVSMAXIMVS
Sources
Cassius Dio "Roman History"
Various "Augustan Histories"
Arrianus "Parthica"
Frontous "Principa Historiae"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Invalid Voter Codes Notice
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 02:59:00 -0000

Salvete,

The citizen with the following voter tracking codes
has a malformed or inaccurate voter code:

# 1002 and 1013

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is
given, and if you are unsure of your new code, follow
the instructions posted previously to obtain your
current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Valete,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asterix
From:	caiustarquitius@gmx.de
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 06:05:55 +0100 (MET)

Salve!

I do not think that such generalizations about humour of people in a
specific country make sense. As far as I have learned in my life humour is a rather
personal thing and not a question of what kind of passport one has. Frankly,
I regard such stereotypical statements as the fruit of bad education or,
alternatively, a very low IQ.

Similar statements I heard often enough are:
All americans are fat, eat burgers and wear hawaii-shirts.
All french women do not shave their armpits.
All chinese smell.
All polish steal.
All muslims are terrorists.
All japanese buy pre-worn teenager-girl-panties.
All russians drink a gallon of vodka a day.
We see, where this leads to.

Vale, Caius Tarquitius Saturninus

--
Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.

+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
Bitte l臘heln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] come back
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <fraelov@yahoo.it>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 09:58:29 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

after a couple od harsh days and several problems about my e-mail
box, I'm on line again.
I have open a new Yahoo mail account [fraelov@yahoo.it] burt I'm not
100% because I have to change the membership options of 38 mailing
lists... :-( So I'm able to communicate only in the most important
lists and I'll hope to improve my situation.

I remember you that the preparations for the Ludi Megalesia is
running now, the festival is very close and we need other and
several players.
The deadlines are very close (tomorrow) and you can subscribe teh
following events:

- Ludi Circenses, the famous virtual chariot races
- Munera Gladiatoria, fights between gladiatores in the Arena
- Venationes, defend from the attacks of a beast
- Naumachiae, the virtual naval fights
- Megalesia Cultural Award '56, the little contest of latin epygrams

.. other events wait for you from 4th to 10th April, be ready!

Please visit http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus/ludi/

Valete
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Just something to think about.......
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 03:19:25 -0800 (PST)

.

I have been reading a lot of e-mails here lately from
NR main list and other groups I belong to, and all
have gone the same way.
People start off blaming the US for getting in to
others problems and not minding there own business.
Or I see others bashing the US, fighting with each
other about who may or may not be Anti-American.

I wish to share with you "as I have with the others" a
letter I received from a family member on the front
line there in Iraq.

He says he has seen more death in just a few days than
what we saw on TV as kids in the US.He told of friends
fighting people dressed as civilians but then turned
with an AK-47 and killed them as they flow a white
flag. He held a friend in he's arms as the life left
him, after being hit with an RPG. He watched as Iraq
troops pushed there kids in front of them all that
time firing from behind them.

There has been times when he did get to stop and chat
with some people living there, about what they have
gone through.
What he told me shocked me to the bone. One man told
him of how his wife was killed. He disapproved the way
people in his village was treated "please understand
he did not speak out to everyone, but just a few
people". However just to be opposing the way the
government's toilet smell, would get you killed.
This man experienced more than just death, his wife
was taken to the town center and men begin raping her
in front of all the town. After the men were done
having there fun they just shot her, cut her head and
posted it there. They then grabbed him, and not to
make you all sick they did do really bad things to
him.

There was nothing he could do for the man but tell him
things would be better soon. This is why he is
fighting in Iraq, to help people be able to live a
life free of rape,murder and the gas of their
children.

We have seen the death that has gone on there for far
to long, and yet no one will do anything about it and
what do we get for it protest in the streets,nations
pulling away from the US and others say how bad we
are.

If ever nation will look at what the US has done for
the world and understand that if we had set on are
hands the world would be speaking German right now.
Millions of Jews would be dead, the British empire
would be gone, there would be no French "no loss
there", and all the freedom you so love would be gone.
We have helped out most nation through aid, food and
lots of other things.

So as you go out to block the streets, bash the USA on
this list,and just shame us all together.Try to look
in the mirror and think how pretty you would look with
that German SS uniform, or maybe they would have a
deferent colored star for you.WoW maybe it would be
blue star....How pretty!

Take my family members word for it,these people do
want to be free and not raped and killed.If that is
not a good reason to go to war than please place more
dirt on your head, your starting to come out of you
hole!

If I have offended you, understand It is just my
freedom of speech!!
As so many like to hide behind...

Brutis
Ps. to my friends "I just had to speak out..Sorry..

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] ancient Roman furniture
From:	ames0826@cs.com
Date:	Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:13:04 -0500

Ave:

Try www.romansims.com. It has sections on furniture, clothing, architecture, etc.

Vale,
Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Nauta

lanius117@aol.com wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
>I have been trying, somewhat unsuccessfully, to find images of and information about the types of furniture used in the period 100 BCE to 200 CE.nbsp; Can anyone help me?nbsp; Both Internet and printed references would be appreciated.
>
>Multas gratias
>
>Ganivs Lanivs Falco
>
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: The Roman Province (?) of Assyria
From:	"gfrose2000" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 05:19:04 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Ave, Quirites.

There are a few details which I can, perhaps, add to Q. Fabius
Maximus' explanation of the abandonment of the Roman province of Assyria.

While the newly conquered provinces were largely in revolt by the fall
of 116, this situation was severely exacerbated by a Jewish uprising
in Judea, Cyprus. and Cyrene in the spring of 117 and a serious
upsurge of riots (which had been recurring since 115) in Alexandria in
that same spring that threatened the grain trade. Suppressing the
revolts and reinforcing the garrison in Egypt stretched Roman military
resources in the east to their full capacity, and the transfer of
troops to Egypt from the army facing Parthia is evidence that Trajan
was not confident that the eastern conquests could be maintained in
full while dealing with the Egyptian situation. There is persuasive
evidence that the decision to abandon Assyria and much of Mesopotamia
was inititated by Trajan. The treaty which Lucius Catilius Severus
concluded with Vogoaeses of Armenia early in 117 included cession of
much of the Roman province to Sanatruces' son (despite Lucius Quietus'
crushing defeat of Armenian and Parthian forces in which Sanatruces
was killed). Trajan invested a Parthian noble, Parthamaspates, as
client king of Parthia before moving on Hatra, and epigraphic evidence
indicates that significant portions of the Roman province of
Mesopotamia were granted to him. The claim of a Hadrianic policy of
abandoning Trajan's acquisitions arises principally from the confused
(and often confusing) account of Cassius Dio (e.g., the claim that
Trajan was planning a new campign in Mesopotamia at the time of his
death, LXVIII.33; recall the Mesopotamian campaign of Septimius
Severus in 195 and Cassius Dio's role as a Severan propagandist).
Both epigraphic and archaeological evidence, as well as literary,
suggest that the retrenchment to more readily defensible borders in
the east was initiated by Trajan and was continued by Hadrian, indeed
probably culminating in Hadrian's disposition of the eastern client
kings ca.129. It is worth noting in this context that Hadrian did not
abandon Arabia province, Trajan's other major (and militarily vital)
eastern acquistion.

Vale, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Hellenistic Music
From:	"gfrose2000" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 06:06:25 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Fr. Jan Michael Joncas also has an interesting "Ancient Roman Worship
Music" page (the audio files are also of particular interest):

http://webcampus3.stthomas.edu/jmjoncas/LiturgicalStudiesInternetLinks/RomanNonChristianWorship/RomanWorshipMusic/RWorMusic.html

And there's nice exhibition of musical artifacts from Roman Egypt,
courtesy of the Kelsey Museum of Archaeology:

http://www.umich.edu/~kelseydb/Exhibits/MIRE/MIRE.html

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Hellenistic Music
From:	"gfrose2000" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 05:42:37 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

The following is a link to William A. Johnson's "Ancient Greek Music
on Papyrus:Two New Fragments":

http://classics.uc.edu/music/

Included in this site are "Fragments of Ancient Instrumental Music: P.
Mich. 1205r":
(http://classics.uc.edu/music/michigan/index.html)

and "Fragments of Ancient Greek Songs from the Early Empire: P. Yale
CtYBR inv. 4510":
(http://classics.uc.edu/music/yale/index.html).

Both include audio recreations of the 1st-2nd C.E. notation on the
papyri. Johnson is on the Classics faculty at the Univ. of Cincinnati.

Another wonderful site for evidence of Classical and Hellenistic music
is Fr. Jan Michael Joncas' "Ancient Greek Worship Music" website
(particularly page down for the audio files):

http://webcampus3.stthomas.edu/jmjoncas/LiturgicalStudiesInternetLinks/GreekNonChristianWorship/GreekWorshipMusic/GWorMusic.htm

Joncas teaches at the Univ. of St. Thomas and the Univ. of Notre Dame.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Chariot Races
From:	"Alejandro Carneiro" <piteas@telefonica.net>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:38:42 -0000

Salve, Nerva!

> Many of my sources are eloquent concerning the internal makeup
of the FACTIONS themselves (i.e., conditor, sellarius, tentor,
morator, etc., and of course, the COLORS), and the nature of the
imperial government's intervention in the races, but say little about
the actual officiating.

Because there are very few sources :-)
We know that did not exist umpires, except the editor or magistrate
was giving and presiding at the games. Though there were a few rules
that the drivers had to respect and it was evident for the public
when they were infringing them: The sharp weapons, wheels as in Ben-
Hur, lashes...Though the lashes in NR are legal ;-)
On the sand , Apart from the chariots, there were stretcher-bearers
of every factio and "agitatores" (entertainers astride) riding close
to the wall to encourage the drivers and the public. In some mosaics
they appear with primitive megaphones.

>From "The Roman Games", Roland Auguet, 1970.

Salix Galaicus
Caput officinae ludorum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A Request
From:	"Chantal G. Whittington" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:34:52 -0800 (PST)

If you are an American wishing to express your support
for the troops:

There is a website where you can write to
servicemembers and let them know that you support
their efforts, whether you do or do not agree with the
war.

You can send them a letter--just a brief message (no
longer than 1000 characters)--to say hello and tell
them what's happening at home.

The URL is:
http://anyservicemember.navy.mil

Letters sent by normal postal mail are no longer
accepted, because of the anthrax scare a while back,
so email is the way to go. Any servicemember with
Internet access can read the messages. For those
without Internet access, their CO's can download the
bulk messages so they can be read that way.

Please consider doing this. It's a small bit of your
time, and it might brighten someone's day. :)

=====
Chantal
http://www.theranweyr.org

"Yesterday, it worked.
Today, it is not working.
Windows is like that."


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Apollonia Acta -- Roman News and Archeology
From:	Sextus Apollonius Scipio <scipio_apollonius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:35:32 -0800 (PST)

Salvete,

the latest Roman news at:

http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Archeology/

Come along and enjoy!!

Valete,

Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Propraetor Galliae

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Asterix
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	28 Mar 2003 14:13:29 -0300

Em Qua, 2003-03-26 灣 22:16, jlasalle escreveu:
> Ave Caesariensis
>
> I have to agree with your views concerning the subtle French sense of
> humour. Only the French could appreciate the sublime anitcs of such comedy
> geniuses like Jerry Lewis.
>

This Jerry Lewis thing needs some explanation:

1) In France movies appear translated not subtitled.
2) What french people apreciate so much is : The body acting of J.Lewis
+ the voice and vocal acting of the french "translator" (what is the
real name for that?)

And the combination is really good. J. Lewis subtitled is really bad,
specially because of the awful voice he uses.

This is somehow the same case, as E.A. Poe which made a tremendous
success in France due to the translation by Baudelaire: The french
version is much much better than the original.

Manius Villius Limitanus

--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Asterix
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:22:06 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I have not often seen this comic strip, but what I have seen I have
found to be humorous, at about the same level as Blondie and Dagwood.
There is also the added aspect of a few tidbits of Roman information.

Perhaps Curator Differum Tiberius might consider making arrangements
with those who are in daily contact with "Asterix and Friends" to incude
some of the best of this strip in the "Eagle." I would also appreciate
it very much would it be possible to somehow arrange a few of the strip
items to be a part of the Militarium's "Pilum" (a quarterly
publication).

I am aware that my humor index is, as Master Agricola has hinted, rather
lowbrow however, in my view, a smile a day has the effect of making an
otherwise miserable day, a little more bearable. I do not care for Mr.
J. Lewis' slapstick humor, but I do support his "Jerry's Kids" work with
chldren who have certain handicaps / medical problems.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Assyria
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:41:32 -0500 (EST)

My thanks to Senator Maximus and Citizen G. Iulius Scaurus for thier
additional information which fleshed out my understanding of the
situation in the eastern Empire during Trajan's rule. My particular
thanks to Senator Maximus for his kind inclusion of the Primary
Documentation. I am slowly building my Roman libray and I shall be
pleased to add those titles to my "want list."

I would ask Master Scaurus if he has any specific references for the
archaelogical findings to which he referred. While I honor thee Primary
Sources of our Roman History to thier fullest worth, I find that often.
as in the case of Josephus and others, that the actual archaelogical
findings often modify those Primary Documents, particularly those
authored by personages with an "axe t grind." I find the Archaelogical
Finding Reports very interesting as a result, and am always on the
lookout for available documentation in that area.

That is why I consider Egressus Praefectus Appollonius' period
announcements of modern Roman discoveries and on-going updates to be so
very valuable to both the Sodalitas Egressus and to any Nova Romans who
may be interested in the growing amount of information regarding the
history of the Roman Republic / Empire and the preceeding civilizations
which gave rise to that extraordinary institution.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Asterix
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:42:26 -0600

I love Jerry Lewis

GB AGRICOLA

-----Original Message-----
From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net [mailto:jmath669642reng@webtv.net]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 12:22 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Asterix

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I have not often seen this comic strip, but what I have seen I have
found to be humorous, at about the same level as Blondie and Dagwood.
There is also the added aspect of a few tidbits of Roman information.

Perhaps Curator Differum Tiberius might consider making arrangements
with those who are in daily contact with "Asterix and Friends" to incude
some of the best of this strip in the "Eagle." I would also appreciate
it very much would it be possible to somehow arrange a few of the strip
items to be a part of the Militarium's "Pilum" (a quarterly
publication).

I am aware that my humor index is, as Master Agricola has hinted, rather
lowbrow however, in my view, a smile a day has the effect of making an
otherwise miserable day, a little more bearable. I do not care for Mr.
J. Lewis' slapstick humor, but I do support his "Jerry's Kids" work with
chldren who have certain handicaps / medical problems.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Asterix
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:49:58 -0600

Ave

The national love France holds for Jerry Lewis defies rational analysis. As
stated before, I like Jerry Lewis, but I do not consider myself
sophisticated or the pinnacle of good taste. So therein lies the anomaly of
it all. While French culture is considered to be one of the most refined,
advanced, and imitated in the whole of Human History, how does one square
that with their love of Jerry Lewis?

GB AGRICOLA
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Loos [mailto:loos@qt1.iq.usp.br]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:13 AM
To: NovaRoma
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Asterix

Em Qua, 2003-03-26 灣 22:16, jlasalle escreveu:
> Ave Caesariensis
>
> I have to agree with your views concerning the subtle French sense of
> humour. Only the French could appreciate the sublime anitcs of such
comedy
> geniuses like Jerry Lewis.
>

This Jerry Lewis thing needs some explanation:

1) In France movies appear translated not subtitled.
2) What french people apreciate so much is : The body acting of J.Lewis
+ the voice and vocal acting of the french "translator" (what is the
real name for that?)

And the combination is really good. J. Lewis subtitled is really bad,
specially because of the awful voice he uses.

This is somehow the same case, as E.A. Poe which made a tremendous
success in France due to the translation by Baudelaire: The french
version is much much better than the original.

Manius Villius Limitanus

--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Assyria
From:	John Walzer <jwalzer5@comcast.net>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:12:10 -0500

Salve Marcus:

I also appreciate the contributions of the honorable Senator Maximus and Citizen G. Iluius Scaurus. As you suggest, I would be most interested in additional texts as quoted by Citizen Scaurus. I am fascinated by this facet of Nova Roma and have applied for membership in the Sodalitas Egressus.

Vale

L. Suetonius Nerva

----- Original Message -----
From: jmath669642reng@webtv.net
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Assyria

My thanks to Senator Maximus and Citizen G. Iulius Scaurus for thier
additional information which fleshed out my understanding of the
situation in the eastern Empire during Trajan's rule. My particular
thanks to Senator Maximus for his kind inclusion of the Primary
Documentation. I am slowly building my Roman libray and I shall be
pleased to add those titles to my "want list."

I would ask Master Scaurus if he has any specific references for the
archaelogical findings to which he referred. While I honor thee Primary
Sources of our Roman History to thier fullest worth, I find that often.
as in the case of Josephus and others, that the actual archaelogical
findings often modify those Primary Documents, particularly those
authored by personages with an "axe t grind." I find the Archaelogical
Finding Reports very interesting as a result, and am always on the
lookout for available documentation in that area.

That is why I consider Egressus Praefectus Appollonius' period
announcements of modern Roman discoveries and on-going updates to be so
very valuable to both the Sodalitas Egressus and to any Nova Romans who
may be interested in the growing amount of information regarding the
history of the Roman Republic / Empire and the preceeding civilizations
which gave rise to that extraordinary institution.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] NAUMACHIAE DEADLINE!!!
From:	"L. Didius Geminus Sceptius" <sceptia@yahoo.es>
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:33:57 +0100

NAUMACHIAE DEADLINE!!!!

Carpenters and slaves has almost finished the place for the spectacle. But what about the players?...

Drums and trompets sounds again heavily. All the fierces faces turns into expectation. Most of the citizens has joined Roman Team, but... What about Dido's followers? This is the current list of players:

ROMAN TEAM CARTHAGINEIAN TEAM
=========== ==================
C. Minucius Scaevola Gn. Salix Galaicus
C. Curius Saturninus F. Apulus Caesar
T. Labienus Fortunatus M. Constatinus Serapio
M. Iulius Perusianus C. Argentinus Cicero
G. Vipsanius Agrippa L. Arminius Faustus
T. Annaeus Otho
C. Fabius Quintilianus

Tomorrow will be the last day for joining. Remember to send a mail to sceptia@yahoo.es with this information:

- Ship (Birreme or Trirreme, Name, Equipment)
- Stearsman
- Tactic

** Supreme Captain chosen

By the moment, the Supreme Captain for Rome and Carthage has not been chosen. So all the players are called to choose one between the members of their own teams... but decide soon!!! Deadline for choosing Supreme Captain will be march 31.

vale bene,

LｷDIDIVSｷGEMINVSｷSCEPTIVS

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Asterix
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:04:42 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Salve Gnaius et gratias tibi multe ago!
>
>I qualify as a citizen of the Continent, although not as a French.
>But I have certainly been an 鄭st�rix� fan since early childhood :-).
>
I come from nearly that area myself, at least far too close south-wast of Chernobyl - I mean Flamanville, but I'm not living there any more.

>And you are right; the French name of the characters in 鄭st�rix� are
>truly hilarious.
>
The trouble is that I couldn't see the humour in the original although I am more familar with the translations.

>My own personal favourite is Assourancetourix, or 鄭ll-Risk
>Insurance�, the bard of the hamlet.
>
I was thinking he was the Chief. Maybe they've swapped them round. In English he is Cacophonix.

I also enjoy the name Goudurix,
>or 撤leasure in Risk�; the name of the chief's nephew that is so
>cowardly as to instill fear in the hearts of the Normans (who did not
>know fear before). And what to say about Id�efix (擢ixed Mind�),
>Ob�lix's little dog, who is certainly not known for his lack of
>resolution.
>
Don't know Goudurix but the dog is Dogmatix, so it's not so different after all. I've missed the Norman one. That's a pity since I come from offshore Normandy. My ex-girlfriend had all the Tin-Tin and her brother all the Asterix. Damn! I don't thing much of Tin-Tin.

>If you like Goscinny's sense of humour, you should also look for 鏑e
>Petit Nicholas�. Those little books are truly incredible; and they
>will change your view of childhood forever. And our American friends

I can never remember who was the artist and who the story-line. I do think it important to look really hard because they have little jokes hidden where you wouldn't expect, like a Mural in Asterix at the Olympics with two ugly faces labelled Uderzo Tyrannos Goskinni Despotes *in Greek*. And the way Egyptians talk hieroglyphs and Goths Black letter and so on. One of my favourite little touches (and a very English sense of humour) is the signpost reading on the really filthy side Gallia (Empire romain) and on the immaculately shining clean side Helvitia (Empire romain aussi).

Caesariensis

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Asterix
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:30:54 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
>
>This is somehow the same case, as E.A. Poe which made a tremendous
>success in France due to the translation by Baudelaire: The french
>version is much much better than the original.
>
Poe and Baudelaire! Quelle m駘ange! I must admit to finding Poe disappointing, especially some that are not horror, like 'The Man Who Xd the Paragrab' about replacing the letter E with X in a newspaper room. I think HP Lovecraft was much better at writing Poe than Poe ever was!

Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Asterix
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:37:47 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>
>I have not often seen this comic strip, but what I have seen I have
>found to be humorous, at about the same level as Blondie and Dagwood.
>There is also the added aspect of a few tidbits of Roman information.
>
I remember Blondie from when I was very young but never understood it. I don't think I would now either because it refers to a world different because American and even more different because its 1950s background is so alien. Asterix seems to manage to join quite lowbrow humour with quiet sophisticated stuff and of course is beautifully politically incorrect since it makes a fool of everybody except the French (who, one must admit, can often do a far better job of that for themselves). There are nice observations in "in Britain" where all battles stop for a cup of hot water at 4pm and one man ensures an entire legion in hot pursuit Keeps Off The Grass - and Belgians eat nothing but fried roots.

Somebody familiar with the map might also know whether I am right in thinking that Asterix lives in what will become St. Malo?

Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Asterix
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:46:39 +0000 (GMT)

-----Original Message-----
>From : jlasalle <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>

>it all. While French culture is considered to be one of the most refined,
>advanced, and imitated in the whole of Human History, how does one square
>that with their love of Jerry Lewis?
>
And Benny Hill! Of course French refinement is part of the French genius. In practice they are fast food & coke addicts with Moroccan cous-cous for exotic but they have persuaded the rest of us that while Baked Beans is naf, beans baked with gods-know-what and goose fat into Cassoulet is culinary art. Nobody considers whelks and winkles or cockles and mussels refined food but once it's Fruits de Mer or the whelks are land Escargots you can quadruple the price! (But not for me: I detest marine insects with too many legs or too much armour). There's a lovely story I heard from a man who had Omelet in one of Paris's top hotels, made the proper French way with two raw eggs and boiled yoke grated into it. When he declared it was not really very nice like that, the waiter glared at him and sniffed "It's not supposed to be /nice/; it's supposed to be perfect".

Caesariensis.

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Away
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Fri, 28 Mar 2003 18:56:36 -0500 (EST)

Friends;

I will be away for a few days vacationing in the Berkshire Mtns. with my
wife.

I anticipate that my regular mailbox will fill up while we are gone.

You may use the following addresses to reach me if your message to me is
rejected because of a full mailbox.

Adjutant42@webtv.net

MarcusAudens@webtv.net

MMAudens42NR@webtv.net

TribunesPost@webtv.net

---------and my regular address:

Jmath669642reng@webtv.net

As to List messages, I'll catch up when I return.

Respectfully;

Jim Mathews / Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!