Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman programming for April
From:	lanius117@aol.com
Date:	Wed, 2 Apr 2003 20:13:33 EST

Salvete, omnes

Here are the month's listings for ancient (or not) Roman programs. All times
listed are EDT.

4-17 History Channel The Colosseum 10:00 pm
The Roman Emperors 11:00 pm

4-23 Discovery Channel The Roman Colosseum 8:00 pm and 11:00
pm

4-26 Discovery Channel The Roman Colosseum 1:00 pm

4-27 Discovery Channel Who Killed Julius Caesar? 8:00 pm and 11:00
pm

As usual, if I locate more appropriate programs I shall post them as well.
The Learning Channel website was giving me trouble yesterday, and I want to
try it again.


Vale,

GAIVS LANIVS FALCO
********************************************
Acting Praefectus Sodalitas Egressus Provincia Britannia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Oath of Office for Propraetor Canada Occidentalis
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <nathanguiboche@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 03 Apr 2003 01:44:02 -0000

03 Apr 03

Salve All

OATH OF OFFICE

I, Quintus Sertorius/Nathan Guiboche do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the
honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the
people
and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Quintus Sertorius/Nathan Guiboche
swear to
honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to
pursue
the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Quintus Sertorius/Nathan Guiboche swear to uphold and defend the
Religio
Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in
a
way
that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I Quintus Sertorius/NathanGuiboche swear to protect and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Quintus Sertorius/Nathan Guiboche further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of Propraetor for
Canada
Occidentalis to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the
position of Propraetor for Canada Occidentalis and all the rights,
privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quote of the day:
From:	Pat <pmcl@nctimes.net>
Date:	Tue, 01 Apr 2003 17:39:13 -0800

Ave,

GB Agricola wrote:

>I doubt Africans would have ever developed jazz or rock
>and roll if left to their own devices on the sub-continent.

Sub?

>They didn't have guitars, saxaphones, banjos violins etc etc.

Europe got the guitar when the oud (or ud, pick your transliteration) was
modified into the European lute, which mutated into the guitar. Lacking
the Arabs, thus, we'd never have seen rock and roll.

I seem to recall that the banjo has a less than, um...Aryan... lineage, too.

WGASA?

>Didn't look like they ever
>going to develop them. And I doubt "whitey" would have developed rock or
>jazz if left to their own devices, either. Thats it.

One thing that Rome was well ahead on was not really caring what shade
one's skin was, or whether one's ancestry was "pure" anything. We Novans
might do well to emulate it more.

There is much that modern music has inherited from all over the
world. Didjeridoos are showing up in modern Celtic music, just for
example. The streams of many nations flow together, and what shows up in
the delta of that confluence is pretty complex stuff.

Vale,

Marcus Umbrius


"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false-face for the urge to
rule it."
-- H. L. Mencken --

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman Britain
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Thu, 03 Apr 2003 08:37:06 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the "Roman Britain" website of the historian and
archaeologist Guy de la BŽdoy�re:

http://www.bedoyere.freeserve.co.uk/

The website includes a catalogue of gods and goddesses attested by
inscriptions from Roman Britain, discussions of legionary and auxilia
units (with catalogues of extant evidence from epigraphic and
literary sources), a catalogue of inscriptions in stone from RIB, and
selections from his books and articles.

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Quote of the day:
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:09:31 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus Marco Umbrio salutem dicit.

Salve, Marce Umbri.

Scripsisti:

> One thing that Rome was well ahead on was not really caring what shade
> one's skin was, or whether one's ancestry was "pure" anything. We
Novans
> might do well to emulate it more.

Unfortunately this impression about ancient Rome, largely a result of
the popularity of A.N. Sherwin-White's _Racial Prejudice in Imperial
Rome_ (Cambridge, 1967), the Gray lecture of 1966, a time in which a
more hopeful example of race relations was being eagerly sought by
much of the Anglophone world, has not been supported by more recent
research. There have been a number of studies of racial/colour
attitudes in iconography and in personal and commerical relations
(particularly from analysis of the large collection of papyri from
Roman Egypt) which suggest that a significant portion of the imperial
citizens and subjects who have left artifacts for scholarship to
examine had racial/colour prejudices.

Best wishes,

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Results of the last Senate Vote
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Thu, 03 Apr 2003 09:29:18 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus L. Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit.

Salve, Luci Corneli.

At the risk of being entirely too flipant...

>However, all fundraising and funds collection must retain within the
jurisdictional >authority of the Senate of Nova Roma.

Wasn't that the principle over which Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus was
killed?

Lex de provincia Asia in the concilium plebis and all that :-).

Vale.

G. Iulius Scurra... er... Scaurus

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Quote of the day:
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:42:39 -0600

Ave Umbrius

My point is that no one race can claim birth rights for jazz, or rock, or
whatever. Its all inter-related. That comes from my buddhist and masonic
training. What is a flower, without the earth, water, the sun? It can't
exist. You cannot claim the flower exists independently from, or is better
than, those elements, or that one is more valuable than the other, or
spontaneously sprung up on its own.

What would the Romans be without the Etruscans, Greeks, Sabines etc?
Certainly they took elements from those cultures and made something unique
and distinctly Roman. But I would never say they "stole" it, or that they
were better than the cultures that influenced them.

Agricola

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat [mailto:pmcl@nctimes.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:39 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Quote of the day:



Ave,

GB Agricola wrote:

>I doubt Africans would have ever developed jazz or rock
>and roll if left to their own devices on the sub-continent.

Sub?

>They didn't have guitars, saxaphones, banjos violins etc etc.

Europe got the guitar when the oud (or ud, pick your transliteration) was
modified into the European lute, which mutated into the guitar. Lacking
the Arabs, thus, we'd never have seen rock and roll.

I seem to recall that the banjo has a less than, um...Aryan... lineage,
too.

WGASA?

>Didn't look like they ever
>going to develop them. And I doubt "whitey" would have developed rock or
>jazz if left to their own devices, either. Thats it.

One thing that Rome was well ahead on was not really caring what shade
one's skin was, or whether one's ancestry was "pure" anything. We Novans
might do well to emulate it more.

There is much that modern music has inherited from all over the
world. Didjeridoos are showing up in modern Celtic music, just for
example. The streams of many nations flow together, and what shows up in
the delta of that confluence is pretty complex stuff.

Vale,

Marcus Umbrius


"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false-face for the urge to
rule it."
-- H. L. Mencken --

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Results of the last Senate Vote
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:43:37 -0600

"Wasn't that the principle over which Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus was
killed?"

Yes

Agricola

-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory Rose [mailto:gfr@intcon.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 3:29 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Results of the last Senate Vote


G. Iulius Scaurus L. Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit.

Salve, Luci Corneli.

At the risk of being entirely too flipant...

>However, all fundraising and funds collection must retain within the
jurisdictional >authority of the Senate of Nova Roma.

Wasn't that the principle over which Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus was
killed?

Lex de provincia Asia in the concilium plebis and all that :-).

Vale.

G. Iulius Scurra... er... Scaurus

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Results of the last Senate Vote
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:47:53 -0600

Ave



So if I plan, execute, and collect money on a fundraiser, and deposit that
money in a trust account, and then transfer that money to NR, what happens
then? I have to get approval from the senate to do so? Will they refuse the
money? You have to guard against the Republic from being too top heavy, and
micro-managing. I say business is where you find it.



Agricola

-----Original Message-----
From: L. Cornelius Sulla [mailto:alexious@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:51 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Results of the last Senate Vote


Ave Fr. Apulus et Omnes,

I abstained and I very much leaned for voting against the measure. And,
if presented again to the Senate its likely given the more time I have spent
thinking about the item that I will vote against it if presented again.

I am extremely hesitant about allowing the a fund to be operated outside
of the pervue of the Senate, espeically from the same account. I would like
to know the legal ramificaitons of such a venture not only for Nova Roma
internally, but its ramificaitons as it would affect our articles of
incorporation. The Senate is the supreme policy making body of Nova Roma
(according to Article V of the Constitution) and it is the sole financial
controlling body for the corporation. I believe that at the very least we
should consult a corporate lawyer (if NR would even condone the cost of
consulting an attorney) or at the very lease consult a Certified Public
Accountant about the possible tax consequences and liabilities that we (as a
not for profit corporate entity) could face. Lest I forget to mention the
complicated nature with regards to the reporting of funds according to GAAP
guidelines (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles).

What I think would be a good compromise is to include an expense account
on the general budget for the Aediles. This way they (the Aediles) will
have a small budget and if need be they can petition the Senate for
additional funds but in this way the financial controls continue to reside
with the Senate. However, all fundraising and funds collection must retain
within the jurisdictional authority of the Senate of Nova Roma.

Most Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Senator
----- Original Message -----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:37 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Results of the last Senate Vote


Salvete Omnes,

> Item I
>
> Aedilian Fund [8 in favor - 3 opposing - 2 abstention / Didn't
achieve enough votes for passing.]

Can I know who voted against and why (or didn't vote)?
IMHO I think this is a very important step for our "live" activities
and relations with Public Istitutions, I would like to know what must
to be improved in the item. Please, contact me privately if you
prefer. Thank you very much.

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quote of the day:
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 19:01:03 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Gregory Rose <gfr@intcon.net>
>
>>research. There have been a number of studies of racial/colour
>attitudes in iconography and in personal and commerical relations
>(particularly from analysis of the large collection of papyri from
>Roman Egypt) which suggest that a significant portion of the imperial
>citizens and subjects who have left artifacts for scholarship to
>examine had racial/colour prejudices.
>
Can we be sure these were racial or a general order of increasing cultural contempt? We never hear of Iugurtha or Iuba referred to as other than kings of roughly Hellene type, unlike the various northern Barbarians. I'd be particularly wary if the study was done in England because in my experience, the English do have a tendency to very similar xenophobia that is often mistaken for colour racism. The colour makes it easier to indentify but I think that, like the Romans, there is more of a sense of cultural superiority to anybody, not of a true racism such as might have reluctantly accepted eg Colin Powell in his present position but still refused him access to the same amenities as Pinkskins, that you would have had in the old South Africa and USA. There were certainly sub-saharan civilisations at the time and trade with them, Benin mostly, but how much Rome knew about that and them is a different matter!

Caesariensis.

“The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive
mankind.“ De Sade.



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Results of the last Senate Vote
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 11:11:00 -0800

Ave!

Not exactly, you forget what really got Ti Sempronius Gracchus killed was not only his manipulations of the traditions of the Republic but it was also his quest for Land Reform and breaking up the estates of the Senators and other members of the First Class.

Respectfully,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory Rose
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 1:29 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Results of the last Senate Vote


G. Iulius Scaurus L. Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit.

Salve, Luci Corneli.

At the risk of being entirely too flipant...

>However, all fundraising and funds collection must retain within the
jurisdictional >authority of the Senate of Nova Roma.

Wasn't that the principle over which Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus was
killed?

Lex de provincia Asia in the concilium plebis and all that :-).

Vale.

G. Iulius Scurra... er... Scaurus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Digest N0 526 Re: Re: Quote of the day:
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@starpower.net>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:43:54 -0500

Lucius Equitius Omnibus SPD

I believe this subject was brought forth quite some time ago, years perhaps,
on this list and not necessarily concerning musical development. Anyway, for
a good source on ancient Roman views on race. See:
Before Color Prejudice, the Ancient View of Blacks, by Frank M. Snowden, Jr.
Harvard University Press
ISBN 0-674-06381-3

Valete
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 19:01:03 +0100 (BST)
From: me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Subject: Re: Re: Quote of the day:

-----Original Message-----
>From : Gregory Rose <gfr@intcon.net>
>
>>research. There have been a number of studies of racial/colour
>attitudes in iconography and in personal and commerical relations
>(particularly from analysis of the large collection of papyri from
>Roman Egypt) which suggest that a significant portion of the imperial
>citizens and subjects who have left artifacts for scholarship to
>examine had racial/colour prejudices.
>
Can we be sure these were racial or a general order of increasing cultural
contempt? We never hear of Iugurtha or Iuba referred to as other than kings
of roughly Hellene type, unlike the various northern Barbarians. I'd be
particularly wary if the study was done in England because in my experience,
the English do have a tendency to very similar xenophobia that is often
mistaken for colour racism. The colour makes it easier to indentify but I
think that, like the Romans, there is more of a sense of cultural
superiority to anybody, not of a true racism such as might have reluctantly
accepted eg Colin Powell in his present position but still refused him
access to the same amenities as Pinkskins, that you would have had in the
old South Africa and USA. There were certainly sub-saharan civilisations at
the time and trade with them, Benin mostly, but how much Rome knew about
that and them is a different matter!

Caesariensis.

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive
mankind." De Sade.



--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Plebeians!!! Only 1(one) day left for voting!!!!
From:	"Daniel O. Villanueva" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 16:26:32 -0300

Salvete omnes plebeii

English.

Tomorrow voting ends!. This will be the last run off election if all plebeians vote. Come on cives plebeii!!!. Less than 24 hours left ahead!!. Don't miss your oportunity to cast your vote!!.

Spanish.

Mañana termina la votación!. Esta será la última vuelta si todos los plebeyos votan. Vamos cives plebeii!!!. Quedan menos de 24 horas para votar!!!. No pierdan la oportunidad de emitir sus votos!!

Bene valete
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Tribunus Plebis



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Aedilian Fund
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:14:03 +0200

Salvete Quirites!

The reason that the Aedilian Fund wasn't approved of in the Senate
was not a _few_ Senators voting again the proposal.

I argued against the objections of a few and tried to answer a few
questions. Here I repeat this my aruments.

Item I
Aedilian Fund

Is it Constitutional?

The Constitution IV A.6.

"Quaestor. A number of quaestors shall be elected by the comitia
populi tributa equal to the number of consuls, praetors, and aediles
to serve a term lasting one year. One quaestor shall be assigned to
each of these magistrates by mutual agreement or, if such cannot be
made, by decision of the newly-elected consuls. They shall have the
power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned. Those
quaestors assigned directly to the consuls shall supervise the whole
of the aerarium (treasury), but no funds may be spent without the
prior approval of the Senate."

It seems very clear that this is constitutional: "They shall have the
power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned." This is
exactly what the Aedilian fund is about. It is of course possible for
the Senate to allocate those donations that are meant to go to the
Aedilian projects to the Aedilian fund. It is clearly the intention
of the Constitution to make it possible to "to split up the treasury
into sections each under the control of a magistrate". Even though I
have the impression that this is intended to only concern limited
projects.

Still I also think that the control of the Treasury is fundamental to
the power of the Senate and I am going to propose measures to
strengthen the Senate's grip during the autumn. But to have funds
under different magistrati according to the Constitution should be
_no_ problem. If following the Constitution is a "terrible
precedents", then I don't know where we would be heading. Still I am
sure that most Senatores don't see any problem with this.

As far as I have understood we have since long mixed donations with
tax money in the Treasury. But in this case the Aedilian fund will be
separately accounted for.

The reason to have a special fund within the Treasury for the
Aedilian fund is mostly practical as can be seen in the S.C. PayPal
can be used and we could do some tax deduction.

The project that already has gathered some money is the "Restoring of
the Temple of Magna Mater Project" and the Aediles have the intention
to work with the "Herculaneum Lost Library Fund/Papyrus Villa
Project" too. It is such projects that the Aedilian funds are meant
for. This according to the spirit of Constitution. IV.A.4.b. "...to
see to the maintenance of any real public facilities that the State
should acquire,". To protect and "develop" such "public" places could
easiely be seen as the duty of the Aediles.

I think that there may be enough support in the Senate for the
Aedilian Fund next time I put it forward.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Results of the last Senate Vote
From:	Pat <pmcl@nctimes.net>
Date:	Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:52:00 -0800

>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Wasn't that the principle over which Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus was
>killed?
>
>Lex de provincia Asia in the concilium plebis and all that :-).
>
>Vale.
>
>G. Iulius Scurra... er... Scaurus

Pretty good company to keep, all in all, I suppose.

M. Umbrius

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Quote of the day
From:	Pat <pmcl@nctimes.net>
Date:	Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:50:59 -0800

(apologies, Gaius Scaurus, my command of Latin allows me to glean a fair
bit of what's written--but not to write even a decent salutation. My brain
freezes up with everything conjugating furiously, like something envisioned
by Fellini.... I admire your usage, and hope that one of these days I
understand enough to properly wade in...)

Salve, G. Iulio Scauro

Scripsisti:

(I can be taught)

> > One thing that Rome was well ahead on was not really caring what shade
> > one's skin was, or whether one's ancestry was "pure" anything. We Novans
> > might do well to emulate it more.

<snip>

>There have been a number of studies of racial/colour
>attitudes in iconography and in personal and commerical relations
>(particularly from analysis of the large collection of papyri from
>Roman Egypt) which suggest that a significant portion of the imperial
>citizens and subjects who have left artifacts for scholarship to
>examine had racial/colour prejudices.

Gods forfend that I leave the impression that I suffered the delusion that
the Romans were free of prejudices.

I simply haven't seen anything that suggests that Roman "race"/color
prejudices were as extreme as those which have tainted the modern world.

If you have links (or references that you could cite) that might indicate
how bad this was in Rome, I'd be most interested.

My impression is simply that Romans were not, on average, as
color-conscious and as prejudiced on "racial" grounds.

One would assume, for example, that the darker Italic skin would have made
the simplistic Black-White spectrum a non-starter. After all, the paler
Celts and Teutonic peoples were (no doubt) inferior to Romans, as much as
Greeks, Carthaginians, Nubians and so forth.

(Don't take lack of response to mean anything; I am taking my family and
fleeing the charming news of the day for a week or so in the mountains of
America Austroccidentalis.)

Vale,

M. Umbrius Ursus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Invalid Voter Codes
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Thu, 03 Apr 2003 21:27:51 -0000

Salve,

Invalid Voter Code Message:

The citizen with the following voter tracking codes
has a malformed or inaccurate voter code:

# 1104 and 1106

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is
given, and if you are unsure of your new code, follow
the instructions posted previously to obtain your
current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Racial prejudice in Rome (WAS: Quote of the day)
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:43:15 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I don't know much about this topic, and I'm not as
widely read in Roman matters as many citizens, but I
can think off the top of my head of one example of
fairly clear racial (not cultural) prejudice on the
part of a Roman intellectual: Ammianus Marcellinus
(I'm not at home so I can't look up the reference, I'm
afraid), when he recounts the first appearance of the
Huns in the 370s AD, refers in openly disgusted manner
to their block-like heads and other physical
characteristics.

However, this was a long time after the republican
period, and was the first time Romans had seen any
members of an East Asian ethnic group, so it must have
been genuinely surprising for them - and probably for
the Huns as well. Also, some scholars have suggested
that the Huns may have practised forms of ritual
self-mutilation which would have made them look
alarming by any standards.

I can't think of any examples of Roman bias against
people on account of their actual skin colour. Romans
did pass comment on physical characteristics of
different races, such as the stature and complexions
of the Gauls, but not usually in such a way as to
suggest that different physical characteristics meant
inferiority.

Now, I'll tell you a genuinely remarkable thing, as a
prize for the one or two people who've toiled through
my foregoing waffle: The ancient Chinese very probably
looked physically different from some of their
neighbours, and almost certainly spoke a different
language, yet their literature pays no attention to
these differences at all. When ambassadors went abroad
to talk to foreign peoples, we know from one or two
stray references that they needed interpreters, but
writers represent them as talking directly to the
foreigners, like the wonderful way in Star Wars that
the humans address the aliens in English and the
aliens respond in strange gooey noises with subtitles.
And there's no suggestion from ancient Chinese
literature that non-Chinese people looked odd or
strange - the evidence for different ethnic groups is
all non-literary. See Burton Watson, 'Ssu-ma Ch'ien:
Grand Historian Of China', somewhere in chapter 1.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Congratulations!
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:48:01 +0200

Salve Illustrus Quintus Sertorius!

I warmly congratulate You to your appointment as Propraetor of Canada
Occidentalis Provincia! I am sure that You will develop it to a
strong and flourishing Provincia! Good Luck!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
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Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
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Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
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Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quote of the day:
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:17:10 -0500

On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 07:01:03PM +0100, me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
>
> I'd be particularly wary if the study was done in England
> because in my experience, the English do have a tendency to very
> similar xenophobia that is often mistaken for colour racism. The
> colour makes it easier to indentify but I think that, like the Romans,
> there is more of a sense of cultural superiority to anybody, not of a
> true racism such as might have reluctantly accepted eg Colin Powell in
> his present position but still refused him access to the same
> amenities as Pinkskins

*That* sounds like straight-out racism. Would you care to explain why
you chose to insult a group of people based on the color of their skin,
or would you just prefer to apologize?


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Omnia mutantur, nihil interit.
Everything changes, nothing perishes.
-- Ovid, "Metamorphoses"

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Quote of the day:
From:	"kerunos" <graymouser01@aol.com>
Date:	Thu, 03 Apr 2003 22:38:35 -0000

Ave

>>I'd be particularly wary if the study was done in England because
in my experience, the English do have a tendency to very similar
xenophobia that is often mistaken for colour racism>>

In my experience (as a historian), this is in fact not the case.
However, being English I admit I might have a biased opinion! :)

On another note, I am trying to contact Annia Lucilla Aurelia,
Materfamilias of Gens Lucilla with regards to an application for
citizenship but dont have a valid email address as that given in the
Album Gentium appears out of date....

Respectfully

Mike McMillan
Britannia

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Congratulations!
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:24:36 -0500 (EST)

Congratulations Quintus Sertorius;

May the days of your Praetorship be crowned with success!!!!

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

A wet sheet and a flowing sea, and a wind follows fast, and fills the
white and rustling sail, and bends the gallant mast; and bends the
gallant mast my boys while like the eagle free, our good ship starts and
flies and leaves old England on our lee------Fair Winds and following
Seas!!!