| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:10:00 -0000 |
|
AVE OPTIME LVCI EQVITI CINCINNATE
> The Consules issued a direct statement that Nova Roma is neutral
concerning
> the current conflict. I wonder what anyone would say if I, as Flamen
> Martialis Novae Romae, were to make an offering to Mars requesting
success
> of coalition forces?
>
> I've kept my opinions to myself and I wish others would do the same.
It seems like if it has not been clearly underlined yet.
In the Aedilian Declaration of will nothing is pro or against USA,
nothing is pro or against Iraq.
Probably some of you, while reading "Peace" understood "we are
against the US attack". I repeat: "Peace" means "everybody (including
Bush and Blair) want peace as soon as possible". Someone whishes
peace after a US vistory, someone else whishes peace after an Iraqi
victory, but everyone hope the war ends as soon as possible.
As a consequence, no personal opinion about the war has been
expressed in that declaration.
I remind you all that both our Consules told that the aedilian
declaration does not interfere with the neutrality status of Nova
Roma.
BENE VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:14:35 -0700 |
|
Then why was this declaration not published in the beginning of the year out of seeking peace for the Palestinians...or the Kurds, or the various African countries that have had on and off wars for years, or the states of the Former Soviet Union like Chencya?
Sorry, your statement just does not come off as Kosher.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Manius Constantinus Serapio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments
AVE OPTIME LVCI EQVITI CINCINNATE
> The Consules issued a direct statement that Nova Roma is neutral
concerning
> the current conflict. I wonder what anyone would say if I, as Flamen
> Martialis Novae Romae, were to make an offering to Mars requesting
success
> of coalition forces?
>
> I've kept my opinions to myself and I wish others would do the same.
It seems like if it has not been clearly underlined yet.
In the Aedilian Declaration of will nothing is pro or against USA,
nothing is pro or against Iraq.
Probably some of you, while reading "Peace" understood "we are
against the US attack". I repeat: "Peace" means "everybody (including
Bush and Blair) want peace as soon as possible". Someone whishes
peace after a US vistory, someone else whishes peace after an Iraqi
victory, but everyone hope the war ends as soon as possible.
As a consequence, no personal opinion about the war has been
expressed in that declaration.
I remind you all that both our Consules told that the aedilian
declaration does not interfere with the neutrality status of Nova
Roma.
BENE VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:56:55 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Franciscus Apulus Caesar
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 3:28 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments
Salve Sulla,
> Sulla: Maybe you should consider resigning the Office then,
since you obviously cannot meet a major portion of the
responsibilities of the office.
Why, Iullstrus Sulla?
Sulla: Because your failure to recognize that the institution of the Religio Romana is being corrupted by your interference and the declaration that you and your cohorts published.
Our Costitution says:
"Aediles Curules (Curule Aedile). Two curule aediles shall be elected
by the comitia populi tributa to serve a term lasting one-year. They
shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
To hold Imperium;
To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to see to the conduct of
public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at
public religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public
facilities that the State should acquire, and to administer the law
(such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or plebeian)
or magistrate of lesser authority;
To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and other
tasks, as he shall see fit.
To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester are engaged in
commerce, within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of the
Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equaestor to the
Censors. "
Sulla: Yes, I am very familiar with that, but you are not familiar with Section VI.B.1.b of the Constitution which state,
1.. To have ritual responsibilities within the Religio Romana; and general authority over the institutions, rites, rituals, and priesthoods of the public Religio Romana;.
Sulla: The Ludi, espeically the Megalesian carry Religous connotations and your failure to recognize it, your willingness to corrupt them, forces me, as a Senator of Nova Roma and a person who upholds the Official Religion of Nova Roma, to call for your immediate impeachment.
Do you read detailed words about how I have to organize the Ludi? Is
written I have to offer violent and bloodly games?
Sulla: I have read your "Joint Declaration" and find it runs counter to Section VI of the Constitution, when it states in Section VI.A
The Religio Romana, the worship of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the official religion of Nova Roma. All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required to publically show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that made Rome great. Magistrates, Senators, and citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its practitioners.
And Section 1 and 2 of the Blasphemy Decreta: (http://novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/2003-03-06-i.htm)
1.. The Religio Romana will not come under attack with intent to remove or replace the Religio Romana as the State religion of Nova Roma; and that the Religio Romana shall not be deliberately slandered, defamed, or mocked with intent to undermine its position as the State Religion of Nova Roma.
2.. INo elected official shall use their elected powers or political status as a means of working to undermine, remove, or replace the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma.
I have several events, games, shows, projects offering to the Gods
and to the Nova Romans.
Sulla: I do not dispute that.
I disagree with you, as Curule Aedile I have 5 macro-duties and in
the second point I have 4 detailed goals. What you mean? I think I'm
following what the Costitution ask to do me.
Sulla: I do not think you are. You are only following part of the Constitution that strictly relate to your position, but you fail to realize and follow the entire Constitution in that your position is strictly in violation of Section VI of the Constituton. Two Pontiffs have already stated that, our Augur has stated that, what do you need a Priestly Decreta. If it gets to that point, I will present a motion for your impeachment for violation of your Oath of office to uphold and protect the Religio Romana.
And I'm not able to organize bloodly games in this moment because now
we live in sad time of war. I think you're hoping the war will
continue since the end of the year. I hope the war ends as soon as
possible, before my next Ludi.
Sulla: War or no war, it is your duty to conduct the games in the Religious matter that they need to be carried out. You do not have the authority to tamper with the Contract that we, the People of Nova Roma have with the Gods.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: MEGALESIA LUDI: Joint Declaration |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:29:29 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
Why did you not continue to use your established relationship with
the CP and Augur before you tried to publish this "Joint
Declaration?" This answer has not been forth coming to date.
Before giving you my answer, let me say that there are many other
question which have been posed much before this one and which got no
answer yet from you nor from the person they were directly addressed
to, Senator Maximus. It seems like if you are answering only those
paragraphs you like to answer.
> The issue, of "Peace, and being against the war" and all those good
things are not the issue. [snip]
Had you just made a politcal statement that you are against the war,
is fine.
This shows that you didn't understand yet what has been said many
times. The declaration doesn't tell "we are against the war". I for
one am not against war itself. However, I subscribed the declaration
as I see that many Roman citizen could be fisically or emotionally
involved in the actual conflict (and I am one of them, as I have
several friends fighting there in the US army).
So, please, and hopefully for the last time, exclude the anti-war
accusation from your list.
>Let us not forget that it was these very Aediles who in February
>tried to pass an edict that would have created a Police state and
>the establishment of a secret police!
Let me make clear that Aedilis Marinus is not involved in the current
Aedilian declaration.
They withdrew those edicts as they acknowledged the criticisms they
got were right. Again, eliminate this point from your list.
BENE VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:45:35 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
> I don't know; perhaps he really thought that it was an important
> thing :-). In any case, that does not make him impious.
>
> Sulla: I would believe that the Augur(s) and Pontiffs have a
much more valid interpretation of what is impious or not.
As you rightly told once, certain expressions are too vague and can
be subjectively interpretated. Therefore, I can't believe you
yourself are speaking of a "much more valid interpretation". Before
accusing of impiety, it must be clarly stated, through an official
document, what impiety means and in which cases a citizen is impious.
(At least this would be what you would say if it was Aedilis Apulus
to expose the matter).
BENE VALE
M'Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A short history of NR games |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:53:20 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/7/03 3:04:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fraelov@yahoo.it
writes:
> Maximus, I repeat you my question: Have you organized bloodily and
> violent games as Aedile?
Yes, our Gladiators were maimed, passed out, and sometimes died.
Our charioteers were dragged to death, or trampled, or crushed.
I oversaw a recreation of the Social War. Lots of people died in that.
> In a special way, have you organized Megalesia Ludi? And these Ludi
> have beeen violent?
>
No, because we didn't think to tie our games to religious ceremonies.
Ours were for the entertainment of the populace. There was no special reason
to hold them. They were a recruiting tool and incentive to be or a stay an
NR citizen. That's why I called it a bread and circus show so to speak.
Actually, I would be scared to tie any virtual gaming to a religious
festival, as I would not be sure of the result. What if the God didn't
understand that our intentions were good? What if they dwelled only on the
negative? Why take chances? Pontiff Gryllus did organize a munus to Flora,
but we coming off the constitutional wars and we saw the munus as a good
thing, a unifying event for NR.
Why you think your Ludi were only entertainment and mine are more
> religious? Do you have organized other religious events like public prayers,
>
> restoration of Temples, etc.?
>
Well, you with the good hair, you wanted it that way. I was requested to put
together a religious ceremony for the Great Goddess, by your office for the
festival. I and the PM did so with aid of Her Priestess. That is what made
it a religious event.
And why you think now the Ludi have been tied to the religious more
> than yours? You have been Aedile like me, why your duties were less
> than mine?
>
Well, because you included the Religio as part, it became a religious event.
I would never have done this without the cooperation of the College, nor
would I change tradition. Nor would I have used my office to defy the
Consules.
It sounds to me, Apulus, that you are uncomfortable overseeing death, virtual
and
otherwise. Perhaps you should resign the position, being ill-suited for it.
As for your achievement with the Temple, wonderful, however you are asking
for money. One of the reasons NR was created to give aid to Roman religious
and secular projects. That has always been one of our goals. But to do so
we need money, which we are not getting. So I suggest you engage in a little
fund raising on your own.
> About your "wonderful" little lesson of history, we know well what
> were teh Naumachiae and we have organized them not thinking to
> recreate the original Ludi but offering new excting games to Gods and
> Nova Romans.
>
Yes. Except I'm period specific. So I disagree with your decision since it
sends the wrong historical message. Sorry. If we are to educate the people,
should we not stick to facts as close as possible?
Valete
Q*FABIVS*MAXIMVS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Multiple Runoffs |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:56:48 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/7/03 3:49:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
christer.edling@telia.com writes:
> Friday night she tried to kill herself. I will
> probably be able to do something good about this, but as I also have
> an ordinary job to take care of I will not be on line for a few days.
>
Consul and Kinsman, may the Gods aid you in showing this girl that suicide is
never the answer.
Continue with your good work.
FABIVS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Affair: Own Comments |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:05:59 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/7/03 3:51:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fraelov@yahoo.it
writes:
> No, I disagree with you because I doubt you have lighted real candles.
>
I did. However it was a single votive. The incense was a Frankincense
derivative. While we are speaking, send us the picture of your Lararium.
We'd like to see
it.
FABIVS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:30:32 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
It's nice to see that you even forget to greet people when writing
them. :-)
> Then why was this declaration not published in the beginning of the
year out of seeking peace for the Palestinians...or the Kurds, or the
various African countries that have had on and off wars for years, or
the states of the Former Soviet Union like Chencya?
Do you think this point didn't come to our mind? After taking our
decision of expressing our will through that declaration some of us
posed himself this same question. For many obvious reasons we are
more emotionally connected to those wars where our soldiers/country
or our allied soldiers/countries are involved. Sad to say, but I must
admit I feel much more emotionally involved in the actual conflict
(as I was during the one in Kosovo and the one in Afghanistan) than
in other ones. It is unavoidable: this is the feeling of the vast
majority of what we call the Western world (and, in this moment, the
Arab one, too, even though it is less represented in Nova Roma) As a
consequence it is during these conflicts that many people can feel
hurted by certains behaviours.
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: MEGALESIA LUDI: Joint Declaration |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:32:49 -0700 |
|
Ave Manius Constantius,
My response is below:
----- Original Message -----
From: Manius Constantinus Serapio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:29 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: MEGALESIA LUDI: Joint Declaration
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
Why did you not continue to use your established relationship with
the CP and Augur before you tried to publish this "Joint
Declaration?" This answer has not been forth coming to date.
Before giving you my answer, let me say that there are many other
question which have been posed much before this one and which got no
answer yet from you nor from the person they were directly addressed
to, Senator Maximus. It seems like if you are answering only those
paragraphs you like to answer.
Sulla: As I have stated before Manius Constantinus, during the weekend I am not online 24 hours a day, I have asked Fr. Apulus to point out which posts he has asked questions for me to answer, and I will respond. I do not have the time digging through archieves for posts that have to be answered, I do the best I can with the time that I have online.
> The issue, of "Peace, and being against the war" and all those good
things are not the issue. [snip]
Had you just made a politcal statement that you are against the war,
is fine.
This shows that you didn't understand yet what has been said many
times. The declaration doesn't tell "we are against the war". I for
one am not against war itself. However, I subscribed the declaration
as I see that many Roman citizen could be fisically or emotionally
involved in the actual conflict (and I am one of them, as I have
several friends fighting there in the US army).
So, please, and hopefully for the last time, exclude the anti-war
accusation from your list.
Sulla: Look, I can care less if your for the war or against it, that has not been the point. The point is that you and your cohort does not have the jurisdictional authority to change a religious event to suite your own concerns and feelings. Not only that but, I sense hyprocrisy and I personally believe that you and your cohorts have violated the Constitution of Nova Roma and the neutrality decree and the blasphemy decreta. And, if I must I will follow the suggestion of A. Apollonius and bring charges against the Aedile Fr. Apulus and those citizens who are oath takers and have signed the Joint Declaration are guilty.
>Let us not forget that it was these very Aediles who in February
>tried to pass an edict that would have created a Police state and
>the establishment of a secret police!
Let me make clear that Aedilis Marinus is not involved in the current
Aedilian declaration.
Sulla: I understand that, but that does not take away the fact that it was attempted.
They withdrew those edicts as they acknowledged the criticisms they
got were right. Again, eliminate this point from your list.
Sulla: Of course, I was one of the first to protest it.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
BENE VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:29:35 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 2:12 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments
Salvete Quirites; et salve, senator Sulla.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
<<snipped>>
> Sulla: I would believe that all Religious officials answer to
> the Gods who are a higher authoirty than the People, would you not
> agree Praetor?
There is a Latin phrase that reads: "Vox Populi, vox Deorum" :-).
Sulla: Yes I am familiar with that, but you have not answered the question.
> Sulla: Actually being a Priest is belonging to a selected club,
> in that they have a much more serious role to exercise in Nova
> Roma, by maintaining the Bonds with the Gods. They are above and
> beyond the status of a public servant. Magistrates are public
> servants, Religious officials are public servants in as far as they
> answer the questions and inquires of the public, but serve a much
> more important role in maintaining the contract with the Gods.
Public priests serve the Senate and the People by performing the
rites of the sacra publica. That is their role. They are not
prophets, or messiah, or gurus. They do not set dogma, or dictate
what people should believe. They are the people who perform the
rites, and they do so according to the Mos Maiorum.
Sulla: Interesting that you are trying to imply that I am placing them in the status of prophets or messiahs. Which I am not. I am stating is that they perform their rituals and mantain the contract between us, the People of Nova Roma, and the Gods. With that role carries a responsibility. But also it includes the authority to speak on behalf of the Gods (in the role of determining what days are Dies Fast, Nefasti, or to preform auguries to determine auspices) . This is clearly something that they have authority to do. This goes beyond the role of just being a public servant.
<<snipped>>
> Sulla: I would believe that the Augur(s) and Pontiffs have a
> much more valid interpretation of what is impious or not.
The Religio Romana has some particularities, senator. It is not
dogmatic, every paterfamilias is the high priest of the cultus
privatus of his familia, and public priests are there to perform the
rites of the cultus publicus. They are not there to tell what is
right or wrong; they are there to perform *rites*.
Sulla: They do more than just perform *rites* You as a practioner should be much more aware of their role, espeically since you were going to teach a course on the Religio. (I have quoted the Constitution below for you to see how broad their jurisdictional authority is)
Some bodies (like the Collegium Pontificium, for example) do have a
say in establishing what is the proper way to perform rites, or to
organize priesthoods. But that is all.
Sulla: I would like to hear from members of the College if that is just all that they do, before I would take your word on the matter, because according to the Constitution, they have much more authority than that. According to the Constitution of Nova Roma, the CP has the authority to do the following:
The collegium pontificum (college of pontiffs) shall be the highest of the priestly collegiae. It shall consist of the Pontifex Maximus, fourteen Pontifices, twelve flamines, six Sacerdotes Vestales, and the Rex and Regina Sacrorum. The collegium pontificum shall appoint its own members. The collegium pontificum shall have the following honors, powers, and responsibilities:
1.. To control the calendar, and determine when the festivals and dies fasti and dies nefasti shall occur, and what their effects shall be, within the boundaries of the example of ancient Rome;
2.. To have ritual responsibilities within the Religio Romana; and general authority over the institutions, rites, rituals, and priesthoods of the public Religio Romana;
3.. To issue decreta (decrees) on matters relevant to the Religio Romana and its own internal procedures (such decreta may not be overruled by laws passed in the comitia or Senatus consultum).
According to VI. B. 1 B, they have general authority over the institutions, rites, rituals and priesthoods of the Religio Romana. So, I disagree with your interpretation that their jurisdiction is limited to just *rites.* I quoted the above section from the Constitution so you can read it for yourself.
CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:37:52 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Manius Constantinus Serapio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 6:30 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
It's nice to see that you even forget to greet people when writing
them. :-)
Ave Manius Constantius,
I do not usually forget to greet people but when I am writing some of these posts in brief periods of time at work, sometimes mistakes happen.
> Then why was this declaration not published in the beginning of the
year out of seeking peace for the Palestinians...or the Kurds, or the
various African countries that have had on and off wars for years, or
the states of the Former Soviet Union like Chencya?
Do you think this point didn't come to our mind? After taking our
decision of expressing our will through that declaration some of us
posed himself this same question. For many obvious reasons we are
more emotionally connected to those wars where our soldiers/country
or our allied soldiers/countries are involved. Sad to say, but I must
admit I feel much more emotionally involved in the actual conflict
(as I was during the one in Kosovo and the one in Afghanistan) than
in other ones. It is unavoidable: this is the feeling of the vast
majority of what we call the Western world (and, in this moment, the
Arab one, too, even though it is less represented in Nova Roma) As a
consequence it is during these conflicts that many people can feel
hurted by certains behaviours.
Sulla: I do not know if it came to your guys minds until the very moment I brought it up. The point is, that you guys drafted a political statement pure and simple and altered Nova Roma's Neutrality clause, regardless if your intentions were noble or if they were totally self interest motivated. It is unacceptable to me, and to many citizens in Nova Roma. Not to mention that your action is probably in violation of the laws that are governing Nova Roma and her Religious institutions.
Vale,
Sulla
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Sidenote on Temple of Magna Mater |
| From: |
Jim Lancaster <jlancaster@foxcable.com> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:42:38 -0700 |
|
Ave Caesariensis:
>If he really was thinking along lines of all gods aspects of or subordinate
to the Emyssan sun-god (and isn't it Emyssa still a holy city under the name
of Homs?) then is this a hint that such thinking was current in the East
long before we hear of it as Diocletion's brilliant proposition of One
Empire, One God, Four Emperors? <
Yes, Emesa then is Homs now; there were other temples in the city as well,
including one to Venus, at which I believe the father of the novelist
Heliodorus was a priest in the 4th century. Little Varius Avitus did
believe his god was above all the others; hence the aborted marriage between
his meteorite & the Palladium matched with his own marriage to the vestal
Julia Aquila Severa. He collected various representative cult objects from
each of the major temples for display in his Elagabaleum, which is thought
to have originally been a smallish temple to Orcus on the Palatine.
>And where Ilahu-Gabal? Shades of Elijah (Eliyahu) but I thought the
original was 'El-`Aga-Ba`al, of which the first and last would be God and
Lord and the middle ancestral to the Afga Khan's title maybe?<
As it happens, I've read not one but two German disserations on the Syrians
Imperial family (and, with my creaky High School German I may have
understood exactly the opposite of what the authors intended). Elagabal was
originally, like Horus & Yahweh, a mountain god who later became associated
with the sun (though in Yahweh's case it took the Christians and Sunday to
do it, but I'm getting ahead of myself). Despite being a meteor, he was
often depicted as an eagle on a cliff, and sometimes paired with the actual
sun god (my notes are at home, I forget the Arabic name). Thus, he was God
of the Mountain; Ilahu (with more diacritical marks than my email will
allow) being the Syriac word for "Lord" and "Gabal" the word for mountain
(which, with various vowels, I believe it still does). The Syriac
"Ilahu-Gabal" was Greco-Latinized into Elagabal(us), in the same way Plinius
was Anglized into Pliny: the old nip-and-tuck. It appears as though
Elagabalus took the titles of Sol Invictus sometime in the late Antonine
period.
The linguistic irony is, although Elagabal could be described as the Ba'al
of Emesa, Ba'al is not in fact part of his name. Ba'al is, I believe, a
Punic word, and Emesa was settled by Levantine Bedouin Arabs. Nobody knows
what happened to that meteor either.
Vale!
Cn. Iulius Strabo
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:42:27 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
> Sulla: War or no war, it is your duty to conduct the games in
the Religious matter that they need to be carried out.
Well, as a personal comment, I shall say that to my knowledge nobody
ever told here *how* an Aedile must "conduct games in the Religious
matter that they need to be carried out".
If the Collegium Pontificum could clearly define that, perhaps it
would be better for everyone, also for those citizens which decide to
dedicate their time during a whole year while presenting their
candidacy for this office. We would need something like "You must do
this and this... but if on the contrary you do this other thing, you
will be judged for impeachment"
In this way the potential candidate could even choose if he is
willing to follow that list of rules. If we have no clear rules, we
can't accuse anybody.
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:51:09 -0700 |
|
----- Original Message -----
From: Manius Constantinus Serapio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 6:42 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
> Sulla: War or no war, it is your duty to conduct the games in
the Religious matter that they need to be carried out.
Well, as a personal comment, I shall say that to my knowledge nobody
ever told here *how* an Aedile must "conduct games in the Religious
matter that they need to be carried out".\
Sulla: According to a previous post, it seems that the Aediles have gone to the CP before to ask for advice. Why did you guys fail to seek the advice of the CP before you issued your joint declaration? (I believe I asked this question before)
If the Collegium Pontificum could clearly define that, perhaps it
would be better for everyone, also for those citizens which decide to
dedicate their time during a whole year while presenting their
candidacy for this office. We would need something like "You must do
this and this... but if on the contrary you do this other thing, you
will be judged for impeachment"
Sulla: Why did you guys consult the CP in regards to the requirements for those festivals that have Religious connotations? I know that Pontiff Graecus has been very responsive to all requests, and even helped out with rituals for the Temple and other religious gatherings as well. I think the burden of this falls squarely with the Aediles and your cohort in failing to maintain the relationship that was already established by your superiors.
In this way the potential candidate could even choose if he is
willing to follow that list of rules. If we have no clear rules, we
can't accuse anybody.
Sulla: As Caius Municius posted before, "Ignorance is no excuse." You all knew there were religious ties to the Ludi, in particular this Ludi, you guys chose to ignore it and use your office to set a political statement pure and simple.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: A short history of NR games |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:57:59 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR MAXIME
> Yes. Except I'm period specific. So I disagree with your decision
since it
> sends the wrong historical message. Sorry. If we are to educate
the people,
> should we not stick to facts as close as possible?
I just remind you that last year (Gnaeus Salix Galaicus will remember
it) you clearly stated that the chariot races you organized had six
teams, but only during the Empire they were six, and under one
particular emperor (I'm sorry, actually I can't remember whether he
was Domitianus or Diocletianus and I haven't my sources with me). As
a matter of fact, during hte republic there were only 4 factiones.
This means that your games too sent the wrong historical message,
that you wasn't period specific, and that you, while trying to
educate people, didn't stick to facts as close as possible.
BENE VALE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: MEGALESIA LUDI: Joint Declaration |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 02:18:18 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
> Sulla: As I have stated before Manius Constantinus, during the
weekend I am not online 24 hours a day, I have asked Fr. Apulus to
point out which posts he has asked questions for me to answer, and I
will respond. I do not have the time digging through archieves for
posts that have to be answered, I do the best I can with the time
that I have online.
This justifies you, but I can't say the same as to Senator Maximus,
who on the contrary had the time to answer dozens massages but that
one.
> Sulla: Look, I can care less if your for the war or against it,
that has not been the point.
Of course. In fact I didn't tell you what my standpoint on this war
is.
> The point is that you and your cohort does not have the
jurisdictional authority to change a religious event to suite your
own concerns and feelings.
We didn't "changed": you all are having the Ludi, with winners and
loosers, as always.
> Not only that but, I sense hyprocrisy and I personally believe that
you and your cohorts have violated the Constitution of Nova Roma
The Constitution does not tell the citizens how one must organize the
ludi, how many deaths an Aedile must provide the People with nor
things like that.
> and the neutrality decree
It has been said that the declaration is not against the neutrality
decree. <it appears that Serapio shall still copy and paste this
sentence many times>
> and the blasphemy decreta.
I think we all took care not to be blaspheme, as we definitely do not
want such. Once again: if the Senate or the Collegium Pontificum
issue a document establishing the guidelines for the Ludi it will be
better for everyone.
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
Qvaestor
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 02:26:49 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
> The point is, that you guys drafted a political statement pure and
simple and altered Nova Roma's Neutrality clause,
You see..... now I should copy and past again. But I will not do it.
I hope you will read some of my messages were I already answered to
this point.
> regardless if your intentions were noble or if they were totally
self interest motivated.
Please, explein us how could we take advantage of having ludi were no
bloodshed takes place. Well, nobody will pay me for this! ;-)
> It is unacceptable to me, and to many citizens in Nova Roma. Not
to mention that your action is probably in violation of the laws that
are governing Nova Roma and her Religious institutions.
I don't believe so simply because I see no law nor priestly decretum
preventing me from signing adeclaration where I agree with what I
think is a sensitive purpose. Should such law or decretum exist in
the future, be sure I will follow it.
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:43:25 -0700 |
|
Ave,
Well at this point I think our Consuls must address this issue once and for all. If Neutrality means truly neutral as to not take sides, or if it is appropriate for our magistrates to ignore the neutrality decree and use their positions to influence and grandstand.
And, you should know that when we are not sure of what to do or how to operate as magistrates we follow old Rome in always, per the Constitiution of Nova Roma, it states, "As the spiritual heir to the ancient Roman Republic and Empire, Nova Roma shall endeavor to exist, in all manners practical and acceptable, as the modern restoration of the ancient Roman Republic. The culture, religion, and society of Nova Roma shall be patterned upon those of ancient Rome."
So in the absense of legal precedent we are to be patterned upon ancient Rome.
If you wanted to make a valid neutral statement that would be patterned on ancient Rome, why not sponsor games for ALL those who died in this war!
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Manius Constantinus Serapio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 7:26 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
> The point is, that you guys drafted a political statement pure and
simple and altered Nova Roma's Neutrality clause,
You see..... now I should copy and past again. But I will not do it.
I hope you will read some of my messages were I already answered to
this point.
> regardless if your intentions were noble or if they were totally
self interest motivated.
Please, explein us how could we take advantage of having ludi were no
bloodshed takes place. Well, nobody will pay me for this! ;-)
> It is unacceptable to me, and to many citizens in Nova Roma. Not
to mention that your action is probably in violation of the laws that
are governing Nova Roma and her Religious institutions.
I don't believe so simply because I see no law nor priestly decretum
preventing me from signing adeclaration where I agree with what I
think is a sensitive purpose. Should such law or decretum exist in
the future, be sure I will follow it.
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 02:47:16 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
> Sulla: According to a previous post, it seems that the Aediles
have gone to the CP before to ask for advice. Why did you guys fail
to seek the advice of the CP before you issued your joint
declaration? (I believe I asked this question before)
As to me, while we thought that we had to work with the priests as to
Magna Mater (and in particular we wanted to discuss with Illustris
Vopisca Cocceia, her Priestess), the declaration doesn't concern
religion. That is why we did not go to the CP to ask for advice.
It is sure that after these days each Aedilis will do so before say
anything! ;-)
> Sulla: Why did you guys consult the CP in regards to the
>requirements for those festivals that have Religious connotations?
>I know that Pontiff Graecus has been very responsive to all
>requests, and even helped out with rituals for the Temple and other
>religious gatherings as well.
We did consult religious authorities to organize Ludi dedicated to
the Gods. We did not consult the CP as to the Declaration because in
my opinion it is not connected to the religion. See my comment above.
> I think the burden of this falls squarely with the Aediles and
>your cohort in failing to maintain the relationship that was already
>established by your superiors.
Again, see above. We did so.
> Sulla: As Caius Municius posted before, "Ignorance is no
excuse."
This clause can be accepted if a person breaks an existing law and
this person ignored it. In our case there is nothing written. No law
nor edict nor decretum nor senatus consultum defining guidelines for
the organization of the Ludi. So there is nothing we ignored.
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A short history of NR games |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:09:02 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/7/03 7:12:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mcserapio@yahoo.it writes:
Salvete et Salve Mani Constantine Serapi
> I just remind you that last year (Gnaeus Salix Galaicus will remember
> it) you clearly stated that the chariot races you organized had six
> teams, but only during the Empire they were six, and under one
> particular emperor (I'm sorry, actually I can't remember whether he
> was Domitianus or Diocletianus and I haven't my sources with me).
Good memory. That was organized at the 1999 Sept. Strategicon gaming
festival and it had six teams. Red, Blue, Green, White, Purple, Yellow.
It was run that way, because the race had been organized a year before
and I wasn't an Aedile at the time it was organized. So the slots were
already filled. However I remembered to put a disclaimar, which went
something like this, "welcome from Persia the Volnus Purple team, and from
Scandia the Yellow team of Erik." (This was before Thule was an organized
province)
As > a matter of fact, during the republic there were only 4 factiones.
> This means that your games too sent the wrong historical message,
> that you wasn't period specific, and that you, while trying to
> educate people, didn't stick to facts as close as possible.
>
LOL! What a nit pick! But guilty as charged, although I did have a
disclaimer, and my other races I only had the four factiones
represented.
Valete
FABIVS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 03:29:16 -0000 |
|
G. Iulius Scaurus L. Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit.
Salve, L. Corneli nobilis.
Scripsisti:
> Well at this point I think our Consuls must address this issue once
and for all. If >Neutrality means truly neutral as to not take sides,
or if it is appropriate for our >magistrates to ignore the neutrality
decree and use their positions to influence and >grandstand.
At the risk of fanning the flames, I would like to point out that in
the republic one of the major, de facto purposes of the Aediles was
"to influence and grandstand" so as to win popular support for
advancement up the cursus honorum. I'm not suggesting that this is
what any current magistrates are doing, but that, if it were so, it's
not particularly a departure from the mos maiorum nor a reason for
criticism unless one opposes the career being advanced. And
magistrates ignoring the decrees of other magistrates kept the
advocati busy in the courts and the Tribuni Plebis occupied in the
comitia for much of the republic. This whole "res" is very Roman on
all sides.
Vale.
G. Iulius Scaurus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quote of the day: |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:23:34 -0400 |
|
On Mon, Apr 07, 2003 at 12:03:11PM +0100, me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> >From : Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
>
> If you try hard enough you can of course read anything into anything
> and you are trying enough to find what you know perfectly well is not
> there. See a psychiatristic about your obsessive bigotry.
<laugh> Once you learn the meaning of terms such as "bigotry" (a case of
fish being unaware of water if I ever saw one), learn to spell common
words, and deal with your racism - truth hurts, doesn't it? - you might
once again become worth talking to. Until then, have a nice day.
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Nosce te ipsum.
Know thyself
-- Inscription at the temple of Apollo in Delphi.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:42:33 -0700 |
|
Ave Gaius Iulius,
Yes, I am aware of their traditional function to influence and grandstand, and I am not obtuse enough to proclaim that I have never in my time used the ML to grandstand myself. :) The issue has to deal with the Religio Romana and preventing its corruption, even if it was unintended.
I do not think this type of grandstanding will do the Aediles and their Cohorts any good in their attempt to climb the Cursus Honorum.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory Rose
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 8:29 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments
G. Iulius Scaurus L. Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit.
Salve, L. Corneli nobilis.
Scripsisti:
> Well at this point I think our Consuls must address this issue once
and for all. If >Neutrality means truly neutral as to not take sides,
or if it is appropriate for our >magistrates to ignore the neutrality
decree and use their positions to influence and >grandstand.
At the risk of fanning the flames, I would like to point out that in
the republic one of the major, de facto purposes of the Aediles was
"to influence and grandstand" so as to win popular support for
advancement up the cursus honorum. I'm not suggesting that this is
what any current magistrates are doing, but that, if it were so, it's
not particularly a departure from the mos maiorum nor a reason for
criticism unless one opposes the career being advanced. And
magistrates ignoring the decrees of other magistrates kept the
advocati busy in the courts and the Tribuni Plebis occupied in the
comitia for much of the republic. This whole "res" is very Roman on
all sides.
Vale.
G. Iulius Scaurus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:18:18 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Sulla
I see
Thank you for the help ,but it would be nice.
Brutis
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> wrote:Ave G. Porticus,
Its not that easy, its tied to the Religio. It would be like going to Church and not having Communion on Sunday (for the Xtians) or the Jews, it would be like not needing to go through a bar mitzvah or a bris. You cannot just simply change areas of the Religio that you do not approve.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: G.Porticus Brutis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments
Please don't take this the wrong way.
I know I have not became a part of the conversations about the games but I really think the answer maybe as close as the nose on your faces. Why not just simple find out who may want the bloodily games than e-mail them a copy of the games "with blood" so they will be happy, but on the main list only show the one "without blood."
It's like Beer......"less filling...... tastes great".....Give the people what they want, and you have peace. Take away their right to choose and you have more e-mails about blood. OR JUST A REALLY GOOD CAT FIGHT!!......LOL
I think this could fix everything, unless I'm total of base, head stuck in the clouds, or just plan wrong.
G.Porticus Brutis
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Pressing issues... |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Marius Asiaticus" <gnmariusasia@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 04:26:32 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes,
Unfortunately, due to pressing personal issues, I must once again
downgrade my status to receieving digests, as the message traffic is
more than I am able to handle at the moment.
I will, of course, still be available for private emails at any time.
Valete,
Gnaeus Marius Asiaticus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Hiatus |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 00:40:57 -0400 |
|
Salvete, omnes -
In another two or three days, depending on the weather, I'll be taking
off on a two-week (or so) sailing cruise to the Bahamas; until then, my
time is going to be spent finalizing my preparations and double-checking
that everything aboard my ship is ready. From my previous experience,
Net connections in the Abacos are few and far between and expensive...
and to be honest, I don't see that as a huge detriment. :)
I wish all of you peace and an easy resolution to the current debate.
Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Saepe creat molles aspera spina rosas.
Often the prickly thorn produces tender roses
-- Ovid
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Vacation |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 01:19:24 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Roman Friends;
Just back from an extended vacation period with my wife, and a
reenactment event. I see that I have missed a bit! I am sure that your
have done well without me, and I will try to catch up!!!!
Respctfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Sidenote on Temple of Magna Mater |
| From: |
"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 04:29:59 -0000 |
|
G. Iulius Scaurus Cn. Iulio Straboni salutem dicit.
Salve, Cn. Iuli.
Scripsisti:
> The linguistic irony is, although Elagabal could be described as the
Ba'al
> of Emesa, Ba'al is not in fact part of his name. Ba'al is, I believe, a
> Punic word, and Emesa was settled by Levantine Bedouin Arabs.
Nobody knows
> what happened to that meteor either.
I don't think that analysis of the etymology of ba'al and its
relationship to Elagabal is correct. Excavation has shown Homs to
have been occupied since ca. 2300 B.C.E. and suggests that, while the
city was governed by an Arab dynasty from the first century B.C.E.,
the population included speakers of the North Western Semitic language
group as well as a South Western Semitic-, i.e., Arabic-, speaking
elite. Since ba'al is found in Ugaritic (a North Western Semitic
language) as early as ca. 1400 B.C.E., I don't think you can exclude
ba'al as a possible name element.
Vale.
G. Iulius Scaurus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: A short history of NR games |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:57:07 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR MAXIME
> LOL! What a nit pick! But guilty as charged, although I did have
a
> disclaimer, and my other races I only had the four factiones
> represented.
Don't twist the argument. Last year you used it to criticize the
chariot races organized by another Aedile, as they had only 4 teams,
while the races you organized had 6. Now you say you races had been
organized before you were elected and that the following ones had
only 4 teams, as you know that with 6 teams it would have been
uncorrect.
It is clear that on that or on this occasion you used this argument
for the mere whim of attacking.
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:12:51 -0000 |
|
AVE SENATOR SVLLA
> Well at this point I think our Consuls must address this issue once
>and for all. If Neutrality means truly neutral as to not take
>sides, or if it is appropriate for our magistrates to ignore the
>neutrality decree and use their positions to influence and
grandstand.
We did not take any side. We never told "Against USA". We never
told "Against Iraq".
> And, you should know that when we are not sure of what to do or how
to operate as magistrates we follow old Rome in always, per the
Constitiution of Nova Roma, it states, "As the spiritual heir to the
ancient Roman Republic and Empire, Nova Roma shall endeavor to exist,
in all manners practical and acceptable, as the modern restoration of
the ancient Roman Republic. The culture, religion, and society of
Nova Roma shall be patterned upon those of ancient Rome."
>
> So in the absense of legal precedent we are to be patterned upon
ancient Rome.
The point is that we knew how to operate as magistrates, following
all the laws concerning the matter. Additionally we always contacted
religious officials when organizing Ludi dedicated to the Gods. We
did not do so for a declaration which in our opinion is not connected
to religion. Is it? Ok, I am sure everything can be solved with the
Collegium Pontificum. Still we need to know what we did that was
written not to do.
> If you wanted to make a valid neutral statement that would be
>patterned on ancient Rome, why not sponsor games for ALL those who
>died in this war!
You wrote "all" in capital letters, so I assume you still think we
took one of the two sides. How can I discuss with a person which does
not even read what we are speaking of?
BENE VALE
M'Con.Serapio
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: MEGALESIA LUDI: correction and resignation |
| From: |
"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:46:52 +0200 |
|
Salve Caesar,
< as you know, I have sended several messages in the work list of my
< Cohors asking for the confirmation of the signature. I know your
< absence but you have been active for a short time during the creation
< of the declaration.
I didn't see your emails but I was *positive* that you had indeed discussed
that signature on the FAC list and that I had just missed it. I was using my
delete button like a mad woman for about 3 weeks :-p
< Please, take my wishes for a soon wonderful moment and remember what
< I said you in my list about your Fortuna.
Thank you dear! I am just not going to commit myself to anything more this
year until a few personal things get settled.
Vale,
Diana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] An Imperial Roman Who's Who Link |
| From: |
"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:56:11 -0000 |
|
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.
Avete, Quirites.
I had an email exchange with a citizen today in which he mentioned
that he was researching, among other things, provincial governors in a
particular period. I mentioned the _Prosopographia Imperii Romani_
(PIR) as a valuable resource for this sort of thing. It occurred to
me that others might also find this sort of information useful. The
_Prosopographia Imperii Romani_ has a website at the
Berlin-Brandenburgische Akademie der Wissenschaften which
(unfortunately for those who don't read the language) is in German:
http://www.bbaw.de/forschung/pir/
I have looked at the site with several of the machine-translation
programs for websites and most of them aren't bad, at least for
German-to-English, -French, and -Italian (the site creator writes a
very clear, non-jargon-laden German). The only serious mistranslation
was of the names of the PIR staff: Prof. Dr. Werner Eck became
"Prof. Dr. Werner hit a corner", Dr. Matthaeus Heil became "Dr.
Matthaeus welfare", and Dr. Habil. Klaus Wachtel became "Dr. habil.
Klaus quail." I thought my German was fairly good, but, while I know
that Ecke means "corner," I have no idea where the machine got the
"hit a." But enough of my grousing and on to the good stuff.
Since the site is in German, and many citizens do not read German, I
thought I should provide a lengthier summary of what the PIR is and
how to use the website. The PIR is basically a _Who's Who in the
Roman Empire_. It covers the following sorts of Romans
and non-Romans from 31 BCE (the Battle of Actium) to 305 CE (the end
of Diocletian's reign):
1. Emperors and members of their families;
2. Members of the senatorial class and their families;
3. Members of the equestrian order who held positions in the imperial
administration and their families;
4. Literary figures;
5. Members of the ruling families of Roman client states or of
non-client states which interacted with Rome.
This material has been drawn from from epigraphic, historical,
literary, papyrological, and numismatic sources. Each entry provides
a brief biography, takes note of the individual's family connections,
and lists the specific data on which the information is
based.
The first edition PIR was published in 1897-1898. A second edition
began in 1933 and continues to the present; the fasciule for names
beginning with Q/R was published in 1999, and the fasciule for S
should be available by 2004. The second edition included new
discoveries and updated the first. In addition to the second edition
the PIR maintains a database for new entries and updates from
discoveries since the earlier volumes of the second edition have been
published. This database can be accessed from the URL I gave above.
Most research universities carry the PIR and the web-searchable
database is a brilliant way to include material from new discoveries.
I hope this proves helpful.
Valete, Quirites.
G. Iulius Scaurus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Naumachiae |
| From: |
"L. Didius Geminus Sceptius" <sceptia@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:57:38 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes
As far as arguments against has turned into demagogic calls to
Religion or Politics; as far as this quarrell about the ludi has been
conducted in such a bad manner; and as far as I see that no solution
could be found for tomorrow -day for the story, I must say:
I rennounce to write the Naumachiae for Ludi Megalesia.
This doesn't mean I don't support the Declaration I signed. It means,
however, that a constant pressure and a deviation of the purposes
looked for with this statement (to be Honest with the people, to
engage conscience&ludi...) achieved by those who doesn't support it
but bitterly accused the Aedile and his team of "Impiety, Policies
against the Consuls' statement of neutrality" and some other charges,
can't then help for a quality tale of the Naumachiae.
First responsable for this withdrawing of such an event like this it's
me. I needn't to say who are behind the scene for such a decisition.
They have been heard quite loudly last days in this Main List.
vale bene,
L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Naumachiae |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <fraelov@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:13:39 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes,
as my friends knows, who works with me is free to move, act, say,
write, do what he/she desire. In my opinion the freedom to move andf
think is the best way to have an excellent and fun work group.
If Illustrus Didius Geminus Sceptius isn't able to organize his game
because oppressing by hypocritical and arrogant and not-noble
attacks, I can't stop him. To write histories is a not easy job and
I know it need quiet situation, concentration and freedom to create.
I understand him (but I disagree) and I can only hope Sceptius will
can organize wonderful games in my next Ludi.
This is the results of this not-noble attacks againt me and my
assistants. Not only our ideals are be hurted by political games,
but now events too.
I ask this controversy ends as soon as possible because we can't
conduct the Megalesia Ludi in a quiet a full way. This attacks and
critics are compromising the "normal" running of the games and I ask
according to the Costitution to not interfere them.
Now we accept only the words by the Senate, the higher Magistrates
and the Collegium of Pontiffs (and not the single Pontiffs). Nobody
have to interfere in the Ludi.
If the controversy will continue I ask respectfully to the
authorities to move stopping this people.
By the way the games of Megalesia Ludi continue with wonderful Ludi
Circenses and exciting Munera Gladiatoria and interestin Cultural
Award and a a soon fun announcement...
Enjoy the Ludi!!!
Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Didius Geminus Sceptius"
<sceptia@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes
>
> As far as arguments against has turned into demagogic calls to
> Religion or Politics; as far as this quarrell about the ludi has
been
> conducted in such a bad manner; and as far as I see that no
solution
> could be found for tomorrow -day for the story, I must say:
>
> I rennounce to write the Naumachiae for Ludi Megalesia.
>
> This doesn't mean I don't support the Declaration I signed. It
means,
> however, that a constant pressure and a deviation of the purposes
> looked for with this statement (to be Honest with the people, to
> engage conscience&ludi...) achieved by those who doesn't support
it
> but bitterly accused the Aedile and his team of "Impiety, Policies
> against the Consuls' statement of neutrality" and some other
charges,
> can't then help for a quality tale of the Naumachiae.
>
> First responsable for this withdrawing of such an event like this
it's
> me. I needn't to say who are behind the scene for such a
decisition.
> They have been heard quite loudly last days in this Main List.
>
> vale bene,
>
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] MEGALESIA RACES (Semifinals) |
| From: |
"Alejandro Carneiro" <piteas@telefonica.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:53:18 -0000 |
|
AVETE, QUIRITES!
The Semifinal Races of the Megalesia Ludi are here!!
While several citizens are in the middle of Forum discuting a lively,
rhetoric, ironic... but totally boring controversy on aedilician
declarations our reds, blues, whites and greens want to offer a great
and funny show in honor of the Magna Mater Cybeles.
Gods bless their chariots and horses!
This year the commentator of the races will be the illustrious Gallus
Minucius Iovinus. The Aedilis Curulis and I, as scribe of the ludi,
thank before the citizenship his effort and good work. Gratias tibi
agimus, Iovinus.
Salix Galaicus
Scriba primus ludorum
And now... the races!
----------------------SEMIFINALS--------------------
Race 1
Sextus Apollonius Scipio
Driver: Leonnatus
Chariot: Massilia
Tactic for qua and semis: 3
Tactic for final: 6
Factio: Russata
----------------------
Q. Salix Cantaber Uranicus.
Driver: Argonauta Aquilonius
Chariot: Phobos
Tactics 1/4 y 1/2: 2
Tactics for final: 1
Factio: Veneta
-------------------------
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
Driver Concordius
Thariot: Impactus Infrenatus
Tactic for qua & semis: 5
Tactic for final: 6
Factio Albata
----------------------
Hello folks, and welcome to a new day of thrilling races and
excitement as the first semifinals for the first Ludi circenses of
2756 auc. is about to begin. Today it will be decided which of the
competing chariots that will make it to the upcoming final on 10th
April. The weather for today simply couldn´t be better. The sky above
the crowded circus is clearly blue and filled with those small, oh
yea...fluffy clouds. Flags are sharply banging in the wind and echoes
through the circus as the spectators anticipation rises.
Down at the starting-line the competitors are getting ready. At the
innermost lane stands the chariot Massilia, owned by Illustrus Sextus
Apollonius Scipio, who competes for factio Russata. His driver is the
skilled Leonnatus. Next to him stands the chariot Phobos, owned by
Illustrus Q. Salix Cantaber Uranicus, who competes for factio Veneta.
His driver Equus Magnus waves cheeerfully to the crowd. Next to him
on the outermost lane we find the chariot Impactus Infrenatus, driven
by Concordius and owned by Illustrus Gnaeus Octavius Noricus, who
competes for factio Albata.
As the participators are taking their places along the starting-line
the crowd goes silent and await the start with great anticipation.
When the chariots finally take off the circus completely exploads in
a roaring symphony of voices as the spectators cheers on their
favorites. Phobos gets a nice start and recives a small advantage
over Impactus Infrenatus and Massilia as the chariots enters the
first curve. The gravel spatters under the hoofs of the strained
horses as the drivers are pushing their chariots to the limit. The
spectators are totally ecstatic and their loud cheers are almost
deafening. Phobos are still ingaged in a close struggle with Impactus
Infrenatus and it seems as is Massilia has lost a few yards to the
duo. As the last lap begins Phobos are still in a tiny lead before
Impactus Infrenatus and Massilia has gained some to them both.
Impactus Infrenatus attacks Phobos on the straight line and the
supporters of factio Albata goes crazy on the terraces. Will he make
it passed the strong Phobos? The supporters of factio Veneta surely
hopes not, and they are cheering loud for Phobos as the chariots
comes up towards the finishing line.
Impactus Infrenatus and Phobos are struggling side by side as the
goal comes up closer and closer. Massilia doesn't seem to be able to
challange them, but the fight for the first place and the ticket for
the finals are really tight between Impactus Infrenatus and Phobos.
Who of them will make it? Phobos is going really strong... but I
think.... yes, it's Impactus Infrenatus that takes the first place,
tightly followed by Phobos and Massilia ends up on a third place. On
the terraces we can see Illustrus Gnaeus Octavius Noricus and the
supporters of factio Albata jumping up and down in a delirium of joy
as their chariot Impactus Infrenatus makes it to the final!
Meanwhile, the hatred and the ire of the Praesina on the terraces is
enormous because Octavius Noricus is a famous suspect of trying to
murder a green driver. "It´s Shameful!", said the green Dominus,
Constantinus Serapio, very angered.
Results:
1st Impactus Infrenatus
2nd Phobos
3th Massilia
Classified for the final: Impactus Infrenatus!!!
--------------------------------
Race 2
Tiberius Annaeus Otho (He´s the current Praesina Champion)
driver: Septimius Raurax
chariot: Basilea
Tactics for qua and semis: 6
Tactics for the final: 1
Factio: Praesina
--------------------
Caius Argentinus Cicero
Driver : Gordianus Camelius
Chariot : Australissima Orbis Terrae
Tactics for quartes and semi-finals : 2
Tactics for final : 4
Factio : Albata
----------------------
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix (Dominus Russata)
driver: Marcus Atrox
chariot Eversor
Tactics quarters and semi-finals: 6 5.
Tactics for the final: 1
Factio: Russata
------------------------------
As the second semifinal for the day is being prepared the weather is
still great. The sky above the crowded circus is clearly blue and
filled with those small... forever, o Lord...fluffy clouds we've seen
all week. The flags are sharply banging in the wind and echoes
throughout the circus as the spectators anticipation rises. Down at
the starting-line the competitors are getting ready. At the innermost
lane stands the chariot Basilea, owned by Illustrus Tiberius Annaeus
Otho, who is the current champion of factio Praesina. His driver is
the skilled Septimius Raurax. Next to him stands the chariot
Australissima Orbis Terrae, owned by Illustrus Caius Argentinus
Cicero, who competes for factio Albata. His driver Gordianus Camelius
waves cheeerfully to the crowd. Next to him on the outermost lane we
find the chariot Eversor, driven by Marcus Atrox and owned by
Illustrus Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix, the dominus Russata, who
competes for his loved factio.
As the participators are taking their places along the starting-line
the crowd goes silent and await the start with great anticipation.
When the chariots finally take off the circus completely exploads in
a roaring symphony of voices as the spectators cheers on their
favorites. Basilea gets a nice start and recives a small advantage
over Australissima Orbis Terrae and Eversor as the chariots enters
the first curve. Australissima Orbis Terrae makes a really tight
curve and actually passes Basilea on the inside of the curve. Eversor
takes up the fight on the straight line and struggles to get passed
Basilea and challange Australissima Orbis Terrae. The gravel spatters
under the hoofs of the strained horses as the drivers are pushing
their chariots to the limit. The spectators are totally ecstatic and
their loud cheers are almost deafening. Australissima Orbis Terrae
are still in the lead, but close behind him Eversor and Basilea are
ingaged in a close struggle side by side. Eversor races on the
outside of Basilea, which is tightly pressed against the innerwall of
the circus. Will he be able to handle this strenuous situation?
Eversor is really pressing Basilea hard and
what happens? Ohh, no!!! Basilea's horses suddenly stops. The gravel
spatters and Basilea's driver, Septimius Raurax flies over the front
of his chariot ending up in the gravel of the circus floor. Illustrus
Tiberius Annaeus Otho and the supporters of factio Praesina are of
course really dissapointed and stamps their feets to the ground. As
the two remaining chariots comes up towards the finishing line
Eversor has caught up with Australissima Orbis Terrae and they are
struggling side by side towards the
closing goal. The fight for the first place and the ticket for the
finals are really tight between Eversor and Australissima Orbis
Terrae. But Eversor is going really strong... very strong...and....
yes, it's Eversor that takes the first place, tightly followed by
Australissima Orbis Terrae.
On the terraces we can see Illustrus Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
and the supporters of factio Russata jumping up and down in a
delirium of joy as their chariot Eversor makes it to the final!
Ti. Anneus Otho claims that his chariot has been pushed against the
spina and that the red Marcus Atrox is a (censored) and a (censored)
and a (very censored!). But his claim was not accepted.
The Red Armada has one chariot in the final. The chariot of her
Dominus and total fan, Apollonius Cicatrix.
Results:
1st Eversor
2nd Australissima Orbis Terrae
3th Basilea (accident)
Classified for the final: Eversor
---------------------
Race 3
Julilla Sempronia Magna
Driver: Crescens
Chariot: Delecta Mea
Tactics number for quarters and semi-finals: 6
Tactics number for the final: 1
Factio: Praesina
--------------------------
Titus Arminius Genialis.
driver: Fabius Brasilicus.
chariot: Terrifica.
Tactics for qua and semis: 2.
Tactics for final: 6.
Factio: russata
------------------
G. Iulius Scaurus
Driver: Cethinus Aspis
Chariot: Raptor Cruentus
Tactics for Quarter finals an semis: 4
Tactics for the final: 6
Factio Praesina
------------------------
As the third semifinal for the day is being prepared the weather is
still great. The sky above the crowded circus is clearly blue and
filled with those small, yeees... nice... great... perfct... fluffy
clouds we've seen all week and month. The flags are sharply
banging in the wind and echoes throughout the circus as the
spectators anticipation rises. Down at the starting-line the
competitors are getting ready. At the innermost lane stands the
chariot Delecta Mea, owned by Illustra Julilla Sempronia Magna, who
compete's for factio Praesina. Her driver is the skilled Crescens.
Next to him stands the chariot Terrifica, owned by Illustrus Titus
Arminius Genialis, who compete's for factio Russata. His driver
Fabius Brasilicus waves cheeerfully to the crowd. Next to him on the
outermost lane we find the chariot Raptor Cruentus, driven by
Cethinus Aspis and owned by Illustrus G. Iulius Scaurus, who
compete's for factio Praesina.
The chariot Terrifica has a heavy challange here, racing towards two
great chariots from factio Praesina. Will he be able to stand up for
the challange? We'll soon find out...
As the participators are taking their places along the starting-line
the crowd goes silent and await the start with great anticipation.
When the chariots finally take off the circus completely exploads in
a roaring symphony of voices as the spectators cheers on their
favorites. Delecta Mea gets a great start and recives a small
advantage over Terrifica and Raptor Cruentus as the chariots enters
the first curve. Terrifica makes a really tight curve and strongly
challanges Delecta Mea on the inside of the curve. Raptor Cruentus
takes up the fight on the straight line and struggles to get passed
Terrifica on the inside. Wow!!! Now all three chariots are up side by
side and struggles enormously to take the lead of the race. The
gravel spatters under the hoofs of the strained horses as the drivers
are pushing their chariots to the limit. The spectators are totally
ecstatic and their loud cheers are almost deafening. Terrifica is
tightly pressed between the two chariots from factio Praesina, Raptor
Cruentus and Delecta Mea. This is probably the the most even race
we've seen so far in the Ludi circenses! As the chariots comes up
towards the finishing line all three of them are struggling
tremendously side by side towards the closing goal. The fight for the
first place and the ticket for the finals are really tight, but
Raptor Cruentus seems to get a small advantage over the other two
chariots. Will Terrifica and Delecta Mea be able to answer to Raptor
Cruentus? Terrifica is going really strong towards the end and leaves
Delecta Mea a few feet behind. Will he pass the leading Raptor
Cruentus? I don't think he will.... no, it's Raptor Cruentus that
takes the first place, tightly followed by Terrifica, who takes the
second place and Delecta Mea, who ends up third. On the terraces we
can see Illustrus G. Iulius Scaurus and the supporters of factio
Praesina jumping up and down in a delirium of joy as their chariot
Raptor Cruentus makes it to the final!
Results:
1st Raptor Cruentus
2nd Terrifica
3th Delecta Mea
Classified for the final: Raptor Cruentus
--------------------------
Race 4
Gallus Minucius Iovinus
Driver: Pontius Falx
Chariot: Ossifragus (the sea eagle)
Tactics for qua & semis: 2
Tactics for final: 2
Factio: Veneta
------------------------
Hadrianus Arminius Hyacinthus
driver: Pertinax
Chariot: Volans
tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: 2
tactics for the Finals: 5
Factio. russata
---------------------
Lucius Arminius Faustus (Aedilis Plebeius)
Driver: Tleptolemus
Chariot: Cerealia
tactics: always 3
Factio: Russata
--------------------
As the fourth semifinal for the day is being prepared the weather is
still great. The sky above the crowded circus is clearly blue and
filled with those small, heeey.... fluffy clouds we've seen all week,
month and year... really all the life (sigh). The flags are sharply
banging in the wind and echoes throughout the circus as the
spectators anticipation rises. Down at the starting-line the
competitors are getting ready. At the innermost lane stands the
chariot Ossifragus (the sea eagle), owned by Illustrus Gallus
Minucius Iovinus, who competes for factio Veneta. His driver is the
skilled Pontius Falx. Next to him stands the chariot
Volans, owned by Illustrus Hadrianus Arminius Hyacinthus, who
competes for factio Russata. His driver Pertinax waves cheeerfully to
the crowd. Next to him on the outermost lane we find the chariot
Cerealia, carring lots of advertising banners for the next ludi
saying; - My Ludi! The chariot is driven by Tleptolemus and of
course, it's owned by the Plebeian Aedile Illustrus Lucius Arminius
Faustus, who competes for factio Russata. The chariot Ossifragus has
a tough challange here, racing towards two great chariots from factio
Russata. Will he be able to stand up for the challange? We'll soon
find out...
As the participators are taking their places along the starting-line
the crowd goes silent and await the start with great anticipation.
When the chariots finally take off the circus completely exploads in
a roaring symphony of voices as the spectators cheers on their
favorites. Volans gets a great start and recives a small advantage
over Ossifragus and Cerealia as the chariots enters the first curve.
Volans makes a really tight curve, but is strongly challanged by
Ossifragus. The gravel spatters under the hoofs of the strained
horses as the drivers are pushing their chariots to the limit.
Cerealia ends up a few yards behind the other two chariots as they
struggle on the straight line of the circus. Ossifragus and Volans
has a really breathtaking duel for the lead of the race as the final
lap closes up. The spectators are totally ecstatic and their loud
cheers are almost deafening. Cerealia keeps a good, constant pace,
but he does'nt seem to be able to challange Ossifragus and Volans at
this point. The fight for the first place is we're the action is!
Ossifragus and Volans are struggling tremendously as they come up
towards the finishing line. Ossifragus gets a small advantage
with a few feets as the goal comes up closer and closer. Will he be
able to beat the two chariots from factio Russata? I think he just
might... yes, it is Ossifragus that first crosses the finish, tigthly
followed by Volans who takes the second place and Cerealia who ends
up on a third. On the terraces we can see Illustrus Gallus Minucius
Iovinus and the supporters of factio Veneta jumping up and down in a
total delirium of joy as their chariot Ossifragus makes it to the
great final! Finally a veneta finalist!
Results:
1st Ossifragus
2nd Volans
3rd Cerealia
Classified for the final: Ossifragus
---------------------------
Bad day for the Russata. Only one chariot in the final when they had
five in semifinals. But we will have one chariot of each factio in
the great final.
Yea, emotion, suspense and delirium for all the citizens on the
terraces.
It´s the first time that all the colors will have one chariot in the
last race!
On 10th April The Great Final!!
These are the four finalists:
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
Driver Concordius
Thariot: Impactus Infrenatus
Tactic for qua & semis: 5
Tactic for final: 6
Factio Albata
----------------------
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix (Dominus Russata)
driver: Marcus Atrox
chariot Eversor
Tactics quarters and semi-finals: 6 5.
Tactics for the final: 1
Factio: Russata
------------------------------
G. Iulius Scaurus
Driver: Cethinus Aspis
Chariot: Raptor Cruentus
Tactics for Quarter finals an semis: 4
Tactics for the final: 6
Factio Praesina
------------------------
Gallus Minucius Iovinus
Driver: Pontius Falx
Chariot: Ossifragus
Tactics for qua & semis: 2
Tactics for final: 2
Factio: Veneta
------------------------
GOOD LUCK FOR THEM!!
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Hiatus |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:43:22 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Caius Minucius Scaevola;
Well, a very special "Fair Winds and Following Seas" to you my friend.
I will miss your comments on net, but I will certainly understand your
pleasure in your adventure.
Take care, and return to us safely.
Respectfully, and Wishing you a joyful cruise;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Digest No 537 Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@starpower.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:02:57 -0400 |
|
senator Astur, (since you seem feel that we are on familiar terms)
If you feel the need, sometime in the future, to contact me I request that
you address me as Lucius Equitius and whatever office is pertinent,
otherwise don't bother.
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:42:57 -0000
From: "Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Subject: Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments
Salvete Quirites; et salve, senator Cincinnate.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Equitius" <vergil@s...>
wrote:
<<snipped>>
> To CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
> "And why are our pontifices and our augur (who should have something
> more constructive to do, like preparing the performance of a *real*
> religious ritual) so worried about such an unimportant thing?"
>
> I do my job Augur, I don't answer to you, and watching over the
> State Religio is part of our job as Pontificies.
I am afraid that you do answer to me, senator. You answer to all the
citizens of Nova Roma.
What? Have you been taking notes from the Iraqi Minister of Information?
You've got it ass backwards, I wasn't elected. I don't work for you or any
Civis.
VI. Public Religious Institutions, B. 2. The collegium augurum
The collegium augurum shall have the following honors, powers, and
responsibilities:
To research, practice, and uphold the ars augurium (the art of interpreting
divine signs and omens, solicited or otherwise);
To issue decreta (decrees) on matters of the ars augurium and its own
internal procedures (such decreta may not be overruled by laws passed in the
comitia or Senatus consultum).
Individual augurs shall have the following honors, powers, and
responsibilities:
To define templum (sacred space) and celebrate auguria (the rites of
augury);
To declare nuntiatio (a declaration that unfavorable and unsolicited omens
have been observed that justify a delay of a meeting of one of the comitia
or the Senate).
Nothing in there about 'serving the people'.
Being a priest does not mean belonging to a selected club; it means
being a *public servant*, whose duty is to provide for the cultus
publicus. You have a responsability towards the People of Nova Roma.
WRONG, actually the College is just that, a "select club", since you want to
make the characterization in that fashion. None were elected and we serve
the
Gods, so you can stop with the demagoguery.
> Oh, are the games really "an unimportant thing?" Well then wonder
> why did F Apule made such a to-do with his little "MEGALESIA LUDI:
> Joint Declaration II", must have been important to him.
I don't know; perhaps he really thought that it was an important
thing :-). In any case, that does not make him impious.
CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
Changing religious rites to fit his own purpose certainly does make it
impious.
This is all I have to say on the subject, any reply is solely for
'tumultus'.
Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Pontifex (Flaman Martialis), Augur, Senator Consular,
Patrician Paterfamilias Equiti, Lictor Curiata,
etiam emeritus Censor et Praetor et Proconsul
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Games and the ML |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 15:56:12 -0000 |
|
Hi everyone!
I was looking at the NR mainlist and playing catch up. I am confused
about the argument going on there about games, gods and Iraq. Can
anyone enlighten me as to what this is all about?
Thanks - Q.L.P
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Quote of the day: |
| From: |
me-in-@disguise.co.uk |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 16:45:56 +0100 (BST) |
|
-----Original Message-----
>From : Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
To : nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
there. See a psychiatristic about your obsessive bigotry.> ><laugh> Once you learn the meaning of terms such as “bigotry“ (a case of>fish being unaware of water if I ever saw one), learn to spell common>words, and deal with your racism - truth hurts, doesn't it?
It is obviously hurting you too much to deal with. I think I have made my position clear enough to everybody in possible want of clarification since there has been no concern other than yours to the 'temerity' of defining the question of prejudice based only on appearance by reference to specifying the appearance such prejudice is based upon.
You just might consider that "I don't know what you're on about" actually means I do not know what bee is buzzing round your bonnet and not some pseudo-innocent trickery. You quite deliberately took a passage deploring racism phrased to avoid all racist terms in order to pretend some racist intent in it, presumably to stir up some conflict about nothing which was never there in the first or any other place.
V. Ambrosius Caesariensis.
"Never do today what you can do tomorrow or for yourself what you can get another to do for you" - Henry Fox MP (18th Century)
--
Personalised email by http://another.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [Nova-Roma] Hiatus |
| From: |
"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:38:32 -0500 |
|
Ave Scaevola
Good luck on your ocean voyage. Be sure to offer up something to old king
Neptune
Agricola
-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin A. Okopnik [mailto:ben@callahans.org]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 11:41 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Hiatus
Salvete, omnes -
In another two or three days, depending on the weather, I'll be taking
off on a two-week (or so) sailing cruise to the Bahamas; until then, my
time is going to be spent finalizing my preparations and double-checking
that everything aboard my ship is ready. From my previous experience,
Net connections in the Abacos are few and far between and expensive...
and to be honest, I don't see that as a huge detriment. :)
I wish all of you peace and an easy resolution to the current debate.
Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Saepe creat molles aspera spina rosas.
Often the prickly thorn produces tender roses
-- Ovid
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Games and the ML |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 16:51:03 -0000 |
|
Salve Paulinus,
the controvery is not so easy to explain. I'll try to do it with few
words.
Some days ago I and my Cohors organizing the Megalesia Ludi, sended
a will declaration saying that we organize Ludi without violent or
bloodly scenes in respect of the citizens involved (directly and
indirectly) in the war and respect of the universal idea of peace.
We organize the Ludi in the same way within sevaral Ludi but
with "less blood". i explain you that no one "partial" word was
written about the current war, we are not against US or against
Iraq, we want only the peace and we don't say nothing about the war.
Someone, like Illustris Fabius Maximus, Cornelius Sulla,
Cincinnatus, attacked us about in a chronological order:
- the declaration is an official political statements (it isn't,
it's a will declaration)
- the declaration is against the Declaration of Neutrality (it
isn't, the Consules have said it)
- the not-violent games are ahistorical (they aren't because there
were games withour murders in Ancient Rome)
- we are changing the Ludi offending the Gods (it's not confirmed,
but the Costitution don't say us how the Ludi have to be conducted)
- we cracked the pacts with Gods ricking to be not protected (the
Ludi are virtual and not real and we are engaged in a big project of
restoration of th Temple of Magna Mater)
- I didn't accomplish the duties as Aedile (it isn't because the
Costituion is clear)
- we are impious because we have corrupted the religio with
political statements (but Cincinnatus said "religion is political")
etc etc. [words words words]
Keep attecntion, the words netween parenthesis are my opinions and
defences.
At the end, several Magistrates are disagreeing with this gentlemen
like several Nova Romans. However we're waiting the answer of the
Collegium of Pontiffs.
The results of this bad controversy is corrupted Ludi, not exciting
games for Gods and citizens, the withdraw of Naumachiae, rivers of
harsh words and a request of impeachment of my Office in a not-noble
way.
IMHO this is only a political battle and not noble religious
matters. It is corrupting our Ludi and Dignitas of several of us and
the neutral and universal ideas of peace and respect for everybody.
And IMHO I think the solution is a quiet stop of this controversy
with the promise of a better communication between Aediles and
Collegium of Pontiffs and new Laws about how we have to conduct the
Ludi.
My goals now are to accomplish the Megalesia Ludi honouring the
Magna Mater as best as possible not seeing this attacks and offering
good games to the Citizens. Another goal is recreate a good relation
between Aediles and the Collegium fr a closer collaboration.
But this is only my opinions and my point of view. I think my
opponents are thinking harsh answers and a more drastic and not-
noble solution like my resignment.
I leave to Gods and Nova Romans to understand this controversy and
take an own position.
Paulinus, please, enjoy the Megalesia Ludi and not see this sad
controversy.
Vale
Fr, APulus Ceasar
Senior Curule Aedile
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus"
<mjk@d...> wrote:
> Hi everyone!
>
> I was looking at the NR mainlist and playing catch up. I am
confused
> about the argument going on there about games, gods and Iraq. Can
> anyone enlighten me as to what this is all about?
>
> Thanks - Q.L.P
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A short history of NR games |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 12:51:10 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/8/03 1:57:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mcserapio@yahoo.it writes:
> It is clear that on that or on this occasion you used this argument
> for the mere whim of attacking.
>
And its equally clear that you obsess way too much about me. Get a life....
QFM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Games and the ML |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:03:55 -0700 |
|
Ave,
Its a long story, the Ludi Megalesia are games that have strong religious connotations, and one of our Aediles published an "Joint Declaration" changing the function of the game from depicting bloodsports to not depicting bloodsports (because they are making a political statement about the war in Iraq) and in doing so altered the Religious institution of the Games and in doing so violated the Constitution (Section VI dealing with the Religious institutions), the Blasphemy Decree(Section II), the neutrality declaration of the Consuls of Nova Roma, and his Oath of office as a magistrate of Nova Roma.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 8:56 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Games and the ML
Hi everyone!
I was looking at the NR mainlist and playing catch up. I am confused
about the argument going on there about games, gods and Iraq. Can
anyone enlighten me as to what this is all about?
Thanks - Q.L.P
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Hiatus & Vacation |
| From: |
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 18:16:07 +0100 (BST) |
|
A. Apollonius Cordus to C. Minucius Scaevola, Senator
& Consular M. Minucius Audens and all citizens and
peregines.
Well, it seems we exchange one maritime Minucius for
another! To C. Scaevola I wish a pleasant cruise and
good weather, and waters less turbulent than our Forum
at present. To Senator Audens, welcome back, and I
hope you find this domestic turbulence subsiding with
your return.
Best wishes to both,
Cordus
=====
www.strategikon.org
__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Naumachiae |
| From: |
"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:40:44 -0000 |
|
Salve, Tribune,
Your decision make us a pain so great to describe. But I really
undestand. I´m working on the next Ludi right after the Megalesia and
sometimes feel the same. I´m deeply concerned with the outcoming. I
testimony the good-will of Aedile Apulus Caesar to all citizens on
his endeavours. Let´s stop to bash him, it is really hard to us,
magistrates, work on that way. If there is a real complain, we have
our legal ways.
I hope this truggle generates an ´Aediles Manual´, if it will make
our office easy.
May Cibele and Ceres bless us...
(Like my colleague Curio who shaked a olive bunch, Aedil Faustus
descends of the rostra and put a small daisy on the feet of the
statue of Concordia)
Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile
CERELIA LUDI: 12-19th April
Religious Hymns
Chariot races
Gladiatorial Shows (bloodly, do not stress, don´t sit on the first
chairs with a white toga!)
Literary Contest (subscriptions until 15th april)
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Didius Geminus Sceptius"
<sceptia@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes
>
> As far as arguments against has turned into demagogic calls to
> Religion or Politics; as far as this quarrell about the ludi has
been
> conducted in such a bad manner; and as far as I see that no
solution
> could be found for tomorrow -day for the story, I must say:
>
> I rennounce to write the Naumachiae for Ludi Megalesia.
>
> This doesn't mean I don't support the Declaration I signed. It
means,
> however, that a constant pressure and a deviation of the purposes
> looked for with this statement (to be Honest with the people, to
> engage conscience&ludi...) achieved by those who doesn't support it
> but bitterly accused the Aedile and his team of "Impiety, Policies
> against the Consuls' statement of neutrality" and some other
charges,
> can't then help for a quality tale of the Naumachiae.
>
> First responsable for this withdrawing of such an event like this
it's
> me. I needn't to say who are behind the scene for such a decisition.
> They have been heard quite loudly last days in this Main List.
>
> vale bene,
>
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Naumachiae |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:47:08 -0700 |
|
Ave Lucius Arminius,
I have an issue with your statement to stop bashing Aedile Apulus Caesar. I believe that we as magistrates have a higher duty to protect the Religio Romana which is the State Religion of Nova Roma. If he or anyone wants to try to alter, distort, or corrupt the Religio I will do my part in preventing that as a citizen of Nova Roma, as a Consular, and as a Senator of Nova Roma. The Religio Romana is the very reason Nova Roma was founded and only the College of Pontiffs have jurisdictional authority over the Institutions of the Religio. That includes those Ludi that carry religious significance.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 10:40 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Naumachiae
Salve, Tribune,
Your decision make us a pain so great to describe. But I really
undestand. I´m working on the next Ludi right after the Megalesia and
sometimes feel the same. I´m deeply concerned with the outcoming. I
testimony the good-will of Aedile Apulus Caesar to all citizens on
his endeavours. Let´s stop to bash him, it is really hard to us,
magistrates, work on that way. If there is a real complain, we have
our legal ways.
I hope this truggle generates an ´Aediles Manual´, if it will make
our office easy.
May Cibele and Ceres bless us...
(Like my colleague Curio who shaked a olive bunch, Aedil Faustus
descends of the rostra and put a small daisy on the feet of the
statue of Concordia)
Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile
CERELIA LUDI: 12-19th April
Religious Hymns
Chariot races
Gladiatorial Shows (bloodly, do not stress, don´t sit on the first
chairs with a white toga!)
Literary Contest (subscriptions until 15th april)
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Didius Geminus Sceptius"
<sceptia@y...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes
>
> As far as arguments against has turned into demagogic calls to
> Religion or Politics; as far as this quarrell about the ludi has
been
> conducted in such a bad manner; and as far as I see that no
solution
> could be found for tomorrow -day for the story, I must say:
>
> I rennounce to write the Naumachiae for Ludi Megalesia.
>
> This doesn't mean I don't support the Declaration I signed. It
means,
> however, that a constant pressure and a deviation of the purposes
> looked for with this statement (to be Honest with the people, to
> engage conscience&ludi...) achieved by those who doesn't support it
> but bitterly accused the Aedile and his team of "Impiety, Policies
> against the Consuls' statement of neutrality" and some other
charges,
> can't then help for a quality tale of the Naumachiae.
>
> First responsable for this withdrawing of such an event like this
it's
> me. I needn't to say who are behind the scene for such a decisition.
> They have been heard quite loudly last days in this Main List.
>
> vale bene,
>
> L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Games and the ML |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:56:24 -0000 |
|
Salve Corneli Sulla,
Thanks for the information.
All the best,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Its a long story, the Ludi Megalesia are games that have strong
religious connotations, and one of our Aediles published an "Joint
Declaration" changing the function of the game from depicting
bloodsports to not depicting bloodsports (because they are making a
political statement about the war in Iraq) and in doing so altered
the Religious institution of the Games and in doing so violated the
Constitution (Section VI dealing with the Religious institutions),
the Blasphemy Decree(Section II), the neutrality declaration of the
Consuls of Nova Roma, and his Oath of office as a magistrate of Nova
Roma.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 8:56 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Games and the ML
>
>
> ]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Naumachiae |
| From: |
"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:03:13 -0000 |
|
Salve, Consular,
I undestand your point as well. But my message was just a diplomatic
´Take it easy´. If you can´t forgive the action, forgive the
intentions. The time I know, F. Apulus has never desired anything
more than the enlightening of NR and its gods. I´m just saying the
discussion has become ´unconfortable hot´ for working and playing on
the next games. (And Cerealia comes on the very next! I know the
ludi must be bloodly, but I don´t want the mine the one split!)
Concordia, quirites!
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile
"Our ancestors, O judges, ordained that the sacred rites of Ceres
should be performed with the very strictest religious reverence and
the greatest solemnity;"
M. Tullius Cicero, Pro Flacco
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave Lucius Arminius,
>
> I have an issue with your statement to stop bashing Aedile Apulus
Caesar. I believe that we as magistrates have a higher duty to
protect the Religio Romana which is the State Religion of Nova Roma.
If he or anyone wants to try to alter, distort, or corrupt the
Religio I will do my part in preventing that as a citizen of Nova
Roma, as a Consular, and as a Senator of Nova Roma. The Religio
Romana is the very reason Nova Roma was founded and only the College
of Pontiffs have jurisdictional authority over the Institutions of
the Religio. That includes those Ludi that carry religious
significance.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 10:40 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Naumachiae
>
>
> Salve, Tribune,
>
> Your decision make us a pain so great to describe. But I really
> undestand. I´m working on the next Ludi right after the Megalesia
and
> sometimes feel the same. I´m deeply concerned with the outcoming.
I
> testimony the good-will of Aedile Apulus Caesar to all citizens
on
> his endeavours. Let´s stop to bash him, it is really hard to us,
> magistrates, work on that way. If there is a real complain, we
have
> our legal ways.
>
> I hope this truggle generates an ´Aediles Manual´, if it will
make
> our office easy.
>
> May Cibele and Ceres bless us...
>
> (Like my colleague Curio who shaked a olive bunch, Aedil Faustus
> descends of the rostra and put a small daisy on the feet of the
> statue of Concordia)
>
>
>
> Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus
> Senior Plebeian Aedile
>
>
>
> CERELIA LUDI: 12-19th April
> Religious Hymns
> Chariot races
> Gladiatorial Shows (bloodly, do not stress, don´t sit on the
first
> chairs with a white toga!)
> Literary Contest (subscriptions until 15th april)
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Didius Geminus Sceptius"
> <sceptia@y...> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes
> >
> > As far as arguments against has turned into demagogic calls to
> > Religion or Politics; as far as this quarrell about the ludi
has
> been
> > conducted in such a bad manner; and as far as I see that no
> solution
> > could be found for tomorrow -day for the story, I must say:
> >
> > I rennounce to write the Naumachiae for Ludi Megalesia.
> >
> > This doesn't mean I don't support the Declaration I signed. It
> means,
> > however, that a constant pressure and a deviation of the
purposes
> > looked for with this statement (to be Honest with the people,
to
> > engage conscience&ludi...) achieved by those who doesn't
support it
> > but bitterly accused the Aedile and his team of "Impiety,
Policies
> > against the Consuls' statement of neutrality" and some other
> charges,
> > can't then help for a quality tale of the Naumachiae.
> >
> > First responsable for this withdrawing of such an event like
this
> it's
> > me. I needn't to say who are behind the scene for such a
decisition.
> > They have been heard quite loudly last days in this Main List.
> >
> > vale bene,
> >
> > L·DIDIVS·GEMINVS·SCEPTIVS
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Fw: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:21:05 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Sulla.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
<<snipped>>
> > Sulla: I would believe that all Religious officials answer to
> > the Gods who are a higher authoirty than the People, would you
> > not agree Praetor?
>
> There is a Latin phrase that reads: "Vox Populi, vox Deorum" :-).
> Sulla: Yes I am familiar with that, but you have not answered the
> question.
That phrase means that there is no higher authority than the People;
the will of the People is the will of the Gods.
<<snipped>>
> Sulla: Interesting that you are trying to imply that I am
> placing them in the status of prophets or messiahs. Which I am
> not. I am stating is that they perform their rituals and mantain
> the contract between us, the People of Nova Roma, and the Gods.
> With that role carries a responsibility. But also it includes the
> authority to speak on behalf of the Gods (in the role of
> determining what days are Dies Fast, Nefasti, or to preform
> auguries to determine auspices) . This is clearly something that
> they have authority to do.
They do have authority to decide upon those matters you have
mentioned above (and many more). But that does not mean that they can
decide on *every* matter. It does not mean that their words are
sacred. It does not mean that we can not disagree with what they say.
It does not mean that they are always right. It does not mean that
they are above the law.
> This goes beyond the role of just being a public servant.
It doesn't.
Imagine that your county council hires a civil engineer to handle
road building. According to the law, he is the one to decide where a
bridge can be built, what materials to use, how much it will cost,
and so on. He is an expert, but he is still a public servant.
Our sacerdotes are supposed to be experts in the rites that must be
performed to keep the Gods happy. We "hire" them to perform this job
for us. But that doesn't make them demigods, or prophets who
speak "on behalf of the Gods" (although they can try to offer an
insight on the will of the Gods through auspices).
<<snipped>>
> Sulla: They do more than just perform *rites* You as a
> practioner should be much more aware of their role, espeically
> since you were going to teach a course on the Religio. (I have
> quoted the Constitution below for you to see how broad their
> jurisdictional authority is)
>
> Some bodies (like the Collegium Pontificium, for example) do have
> a say in establishing what is the proper way to perform rites, or
> to organize priesthoods. But that is all.
>
> Sulla: I would like to hear from members of the College if that
> is just all that they do, before I would take your word on the
> matter, because according to the Constitution, they have much more
> authority than that. According to the Constitution of Nova Roma,
> the CP has the authority to do the following:
That's an excellent idea; let's see what are the duties of our
sacerdotes according to the Constitution.
> The collegium pontificum (college of pontiffs) shall be the
> highest of the priestly collegiae. It shall consist of the Pontifex
> Maximus, fourteen Pontifices, twelve flamines, six Sacerdotes
> Vestales, and the Rex and Regina Sacrorum. The collegium pontificum
> shall appoint its own members. The collegium pontificum shall have
> the following honors, powers, and responsibilities:
> 1.. To control the calendar, and determine when the festivals
> and dies fasti and dies nefasti shall occur, and what their effects
> shall be, within the boundaries of the example of ancient Rome;
> 2.. To have ritual responsibilities within the Religio Romana;
> and general authority over the institutions, rites, rituals, and
> priesthoods of the public Religio Romana;
> 3.. To issue decreta (decrees) on matters relevant to the
> Religio Romana and its own internal procedures (such decreta may
> not be overruled by laws passed in the comitia or Senatus
> consultum).
> According to VI. B. 1 B, they have general authority over the
> institutions, rites, rituals and priesthoods of the Religio
> Romana.
>
> So, I disagree with your interpretation that their jurisdiction is
> limited to just *rites.* I quoted the above section from the
> Constitution so you can read it for yourself.
But the section above enables the Collegium Pontificium to decide
upon those aspects that affect *ritual* practices, like the religious
calendar, the priesthoods that will perform those rites, and their
own internal procedures. That seems clear to me.
Let's say then that the sacerdotes of Nova Roma have the duty to
perform some rites and the necessary rights to perform their duties
(and this is the way it should be). I don't see those broad powers
you were talking about. I see no mention of them "speaking on behalf
of the Gods".
CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] RE: Sidenote on Temple of Magna Mater |
| From: |
Jim Lancaster <jlancaster@foxcable.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:35:22 -0700 |
|
Salve, Gai Iuli,
>I don't think that analysis of the etymology of ba'al and its
relationship to Elagabal is correct. Excavation has shown Homs to
have been occupied since ca. 2300 B.C.E. and suggests that, while the
city was governed by an Arab dynasty from the first century B.C.E.,
the population included speakers of the North Western Semitic language
group as well as a South Western Semitic-, i.e., Arabic-, speaking
elite. Since ba'al is found in Ugaritic (a North Western Semitic
language) as early as ca. 1400 B.C.E., I don't think you can exclude
ba'al as a possible name element. <
Thank you very much for this correction. Also, fanciful etymologies were as
popular then as they are now, so I really ought to have qualified my
statement. Part of the problem too is that the religion itself is a bit of
a mystery, and virtually nothing is known about its origins.
I'm having similar difficulties finding the meanings of the names found in
the Emesene dynasty, and modern commentators are loathe to wade into the
fray. For instance, Julia Domna - at the time, many Latin or Greek-speaking
inscribers seemed to believe Domna was a contraction of "Domina". Anthony
Birley et al. state vaguely that Domna is a "diminutive" for "black," and
leave it at that. Well, in modern Arabic, the syllables that could form the
name "domna" mean something substantially different: words for excrement and
bodily decay come from the "dmn" root; black, yes, but not a happy kind of
black, as if the baby were born with black hair or dark skin. There's not a
lot of affection in rotting bodily waste, and the extant ancient source
texts are silent on this issue. I have not had an opportunity to track down
the Lexicon Syriacum to see if I can get a different spin on this.
Another example is Julia Maesa, where Maesa is translated as "to walk with a
swinging gate," which would be an odd name for a baby. In modern Arabic,
the equivalent of the Latin/Anglicized "maes" refers to the lewd behavior of
prostitutes. Now, here the connection is more obvious, with perhaps a
subsequent filter of Islamic moralism applied.
One cryptic footnote by a scholar mentioned that Julia "Mamaea" was derived
from the Arabic word "mama." However, that Arabic word wasn't defined in
the footnote. Turns out, there is no Arabic word "mama." There's two
versions of "ma'ma" one with the diacritical mark curved left, one curving
right, that are entirely different from each other, plus a host of
variations (and, need I add, none of them are in any way maternity-related).
That's a level of frustration entirely unnecessary.
I don't even want to get into "So(h)aemias." Oy.
Vale,
Cn. Iulius Strabo
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] LUDI CERELIA - GLADIATOR GAME SUBSCRIPTIONS OPEN! |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:52:58 -0300 (ART) |
|
LUDI CEREALIA
GLADIATOR GAME
"Our ancestors, O judges, ordained that the sacred rites of Ceres should be performed with the very strictest religious reverence and the greatest solemnity;"
M. Tullius Cicero, Pro Flacco
OVERVIEW: For the greater glory of Nova Roma, enlightening of our people, and satisfaction of Mother Ceres, the Cerealia Ludi this year is granting a great Muneria Gladiatoria opened to all citizens.
DATES
14th april – First round
16th april – ‘Surprise’ round. The Aediles will make a secret preparation for this game.
The Aediles keep the right to add an extra round if necessary until 19th april.
SUBSCRIPTIONS
Until 13th april!!!!!
You must send a email to Aedile L. Arminius Faustus (lafaustus@yahoo.com.br) with the subject: ‘CEREALIA MUNERA’ with the following:
a) Roman Name
b) Province
c) Gladiator Name (please, choose new gladiators for this game! And don´t get so involved with them, he may not survive)
d) Type of Gladiator (Retiarius, Murmillo, Samnite, Thracian, Essedarius) – This will gaive a automatically natural technique to fight.
e) Fighting Chosen Technique (Aggressive, Defensive and Evasive) – the roman player must keep strict secret the way he addressed to its fighter and it will have bonus depending on the adversary. See the rules below.
“This fault appears not only in the matter of buildings, but also in the shows given by magistrates, whether of gladiators in the forum or of plays on the stage. Here neither delay nor postponement is permissible, but the necessities of the case require that everything should be ready at a fixed time,--the seats for the audience, the awning drawn over them, and whatever, in accordance with the customs of the stage, is provided by machinery to please the eye of the people. These matters require careful thought and planning by a well trained intellect; for none of them can be accomplished without machinery, and without hard study skilfully applied in various ways.”
Vitruvius Pollio, The Ten Books on Architecture
WINNERS
The winner will gain a spectacular reward and glory on a virtual monument on the Aediles Site.
GLADIATOR FIGHT - RULES
Many thanks to G. Galerius Peregrinator and P. Tarquitius Rufus for the help.
I - Types of Gladiators
a) Retiarius: fast gladiator, almost naked, armed with a web and a
trident.
b) Murmillo : very common kind of gladiator, wore a helmet with
the form of a fish and a leather hood, galerum. He uses a heavy sword and a shield.
c) Samnite : carried a sword and shield. The samnite is dressed
like the ancient Samnite warriors defeated by Rome.
d) Thracian : very popular gladiator. Carried a round buckler
and a dagger.
e) Essedarius (chariot-fighter) : the essedarius comes in a bigae
and throws spears.
“By far the greatest sight in the procession was the captured armour, and so magnificent were the pieces considered that the gilded shields were distributed amongst the owners of the silversmiths' shops to adorn the Forum. This is said to be the origin of the custom of the aediles decorating the Forum when the symbols of three Capitoline deities are conducted in procession through the City on the occasion of the Great Games. Whilst the Romans made use of this armour to honour the gods, the Campanians, out of contempt and hatred towards the Samnites, made the gladiators who performed at their banquets wear it, and they then called them `Samnites.'”
Livy, History of Rome, BOOK IX: B.C. 321-304: THE SECOND SAMNITE WAR
II - FIGHTING TECHNIQUES:
a) AGRESSIVE FIGHT : this technique relies on heavy and violent
attacks caring little with defence.
b) EVASIVE FIGHT : this technique relies on speed, constant
escaping, and hit and run.
c) DEFENSIVE FIGHT : this technique relies on defence with
shield to block attacks. The fighter is very defensive, cautious, and fights with precision.
“ Aedilis praeter comitium ac forum basilicasque etiam Capitolium ornauit porticibus ad tempus extructis, in quibus abundante rerum copia pars apparatus exponeretur. uenationes autem ludosque et cum collega et separatim edidit, quo factum est, ut communium quoque inpensarum solus gratiam caperet nec dissimularet collega eius Marcus Bibulus, euenisse sibi quod Polluci: ut enim geminis fratribus aedes in foro constituta tantum Castoris uocaretur, ita suam Caesarisque munificentiam unius Caesaris dici. Adiecit insuper Caesar etiam gladiatorium munus, sed aliquanto paucioribus quam destinauerat paribus; nam cum multiplici undique familia conparata inimicos exterruisset, cautum est de numero gladiatorum, quo ne maiorem cuiquam habere Romae liceret “
G. Suetonius Tranquillus, De Vita Caesarum - LIBER I: DIVVS IVLIVS
III - BONUS:
This rule is like the scissor-paper-stone game, and depending on the manner of fighting the fighter gets a bonus.
a) AGRESSIVE has bonus over DEFENSIVE: the defensive fighter cannot stand all the blows from an agressive fighter
b) DEFENSIVE has bonus over EVASIVE: the evasive fighter is less effective than the aggressive and defensive, but his studied attacks can pick the evasive fighter in mid movement.
c) EVASIVE has bonus over AGRESSIVE: the agressive fighter who attacks all the time is open to hits from a fast evasive fighter.
IV - NATURAL TECHNIQUE AND CHOSEN TECHNIQUE:
The Murmillo and The Thracian are AGRESSIVE.
The Retiarius and The Essedarius are EVASIVE.
The Samnite is DEFENSIVE.
A fighter can choose a different technique for fighting to trap the adversary, and he is free to choose and his choice is kept secret. The natural technique and the chosen technique will be added up for bonus score.
V - THE WOUND RULE
A ´round´ of fight would start by throwing a dice for each player, then bonus is added. The higher value corresponds to the size of wound inflicted.
The fighter who is wounded three times falls. If the difference between total wounds is just one, the public gives mercy to the fallen warrior or thumbs down (or up).
Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Senior Plebeian Aedile
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] L:egions of the Nile |
| From: |
"pjane" <pcassia@novaroma.org> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 19:45:57 -0000 |
|
A friend is seeking a copy of the film "Legions of the Nile" directed
by Vittorio Cottafavi, which is about the Caesar-Antony-Cleopatra
confrontation. If you know of someplace that has it - a film library,
probably, since it doesn't seem to be available on video - please e-
mail me off-list.
P. Cassia
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Sidenote on Temple of Magna Mater |
| From: |
me-in-@disguise.co.uk |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:07:41 +0100 (BST) |
|
-----Original Message-----
>From : Jim Lancaster <jlancaster@foxcable.com>
Ave Strabo!
>
>Yes, Emesa then is Homs now; there were other temples in the city as well,
I always find this fascinating, how the holy site of one religion 'just happens' to have excellent reasons for being the holy site of it successor[s], Glastonbury a supreme example! I would be willing to bet too that Medjugorje, which I believe is not so far from Diocletion's retirement palace held a shrine or two to the Great Mother under one name or another. The town of Harran=Carrhae as well has massive links to a stellar-Herakles cult and after him, Abraham.
>(which, with various vowels, I believe it still does). The Syriac
>“Ilahu-Gabal“ was Greco-Latinized into Elagabal(us), in the same way Plinius
>was Anglized into Pliny: the old nip-and-tuck. It appears as though
>Elagabalus took the titles of Sol Invictus sometime in the late Antonine
>period.
>
That is interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if it was also modified to read something in Aramaic as well tough. Ba`al turns up in Hebrew but of course there's no guarantee they didn't get the word from Punic.
Caesariensis
"Never do today what you can do tomorrow or for yourself what you can get another to do for you" - Henry Fox MP (18th Century)
--
Personalised email by http://another.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] RE: Sidenote on Temple of Magna Mater |
| From: |
me-in-@disguise.co.uk |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:21:13 +0100 (BST) |
|
-----Original Message-----
>From : Jim Lancaster <jlancaster@foxcable.com>
>
>name “domna“ mean something substantially different: words for excrement and
>bodily decay come from the “dmn“ root; black, yes, but not a happy kind of
>black, as if the baby were born with black hair or dark skin. There's not a
>
Hard to tell which came first, the Arabic could derive itself from a euphemism. It's easy to see why Romans might have given these women insulting names but not why so in Semitic! Very likely though, they were up to the same sort of tricks at home before they brought them to Rome and so gained names the Romans assumed no more than local names.
>
>One cryptic footnote by a scholar mentioned that Julia “Mamaea“ was derived
In keeping with the others, maybe a reference to breasts?
>I don't even want to get into “So(h)aemias.“ Oy.
>
Too many others did?
Caesariensis.
"Never do today what you can do tomorrow or for yourself what you can get another to do for you" - Henry Fox MP (18th Century)
--
Personalised email by http://another.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Fw: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 535 Re: Megalesia Affair: My Own Comments |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:41:24 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites; et salve, Sulla.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius
> Sulla"
> <alexious@e...> wrote:
>
> <<snipped>>
>
> > > Sulla: I would believe that all Religious
> officials answer to
> > > the Gods who are a higher authoirty than the
> People, would you
> > > not agree Praetor?
> >
> > There is a Latin phrase that reads: "Vox Populi,
> vox Deorum" :-).
> > Sulla: Yes I am familiar with that, but you have
> not answered the
> > question.
>
> That phrase means that there is no higher authority
> than the People;
> the will of the People is the will of the Gods.
>
The original quote is "Vox Populi, Vox Dei" And is
from William of Malmesbury in the Twelfth Century CE.
It's a political viewpoint not a theological
viewpoint. It a view that nothing is higher the will
of the people and a stark contrast to the concept of
Natural Law, a philosphy developed by the Romans.
=====
L. Sicinius Drusus
Roman Citizen
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Honoring Ceres - The Cerealia. |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Hadrianus=20Rutilius=20Bardulus?= <gens_rutilia@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:53:11 +0200 (CEST) |
|
Salvete omnes cives.
======================================================================
MESSAGE IN ENGLISH LANGUAGE
Next april 12th to april 19th, ancient Rome celebrated the "CEREALIA"
or "CERIALIA", the major festival dedicated to Ceres, Goddess of
Agriculture and Protectress of Plebeians. She is also a patron deity of
Provincia Hispania of Nova Roma.
You can read a small essay about Ceres at:
http://www.geocities.com/gens_rutilia/Ceres_english.pdf
Or its original in Castilian-Spanish at:
http://www.geocities.com/gens_rutilia/Ceres_castellano.pdf
Don't forget taking part at the LUDI CERERIS, contacting with the
Plebeian Aedile Lucius Arminius Faustus, at lafaustus@yahoo.com.br
Next days I'll post a Cerealia ritual for Religio Romana practicioners.
======================================================================
MENSAJE EN CASTELLANO
El próximo 12 de abril, hasta el día 19, se celebraba en la antigua
Roma la "CEREALIA" o "CERIALIA", la festividad principal dedicada a
Ceres, Diosa de la Agricultura y Protectora de los Plebeyos. Ceres
forma parte también de la Tríada de Dioses que tutela la Provincia
Hispania de Nova Roma.
Un pequeño ensayo sobre la Diosa Ceres se puede encontrar aquí
(inglés):
http://www.geocities.com/gens_rutilia/Ceres_english.pdf
O su versión en castellano en:
http://www.geocities.com/gens_rutilia/Ceres_castellano.pdf
No olvidéis tomar parte en los LUDI CERERIS, contactando con el Edil de
la Plebe Lucius Arminius Faustus en lafaustus@yahoo.com.br
En los próximos días enviaré un ritual religioso de la Cerealia para
los practicantes de la Religio Romana.
======================================================================
Valete optime,
Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus
Flamen Cerealis Novae Romae
___________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] MEGALESIA LUDI: Megalesia Cultural Award '56 - players |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:02:16 -0000 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
tomorrow my Cohors Aedilis in collaboration with Illustrus Curule
Aedile Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, will announce the winner of the
Megalesia Cultural Award '56, the contest of epygrams during the Ludi
Megalesia.
We received sevaral works and we thank all the authors. They have
written wonderful histories and to judge them is a very hard job.
Congratulations!
The works will be judged by a large Jury composed by the higest
Magistrates and members of our Res Publica and Cultural Sodalitas.
This are the players running in the Megalesia Cultural Award:
-------------------------
by Spurius Postumius Tubertus
Kalendis Martiis, MMDCCLI,
cum Senatus Populusque Romanus conditus iterum,
cum ventus candor Romae iterum,
cum reposita Victoria,
genus inceptum hominum novum,
novimores visi ut cras fuisset meliores omnes sunt simus.
(English Supplement)
On the Kalends of March, 2756 years from the Founding of the City,
when the Senate and the People of Rome were again founded,
when the fire of Rome was seen again,
when Victory was restored,
a new lineage of man was concieved,
and new morals were seen so that tomorrow we may all be better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
One Book-End Nova Roman Cat of a Pair
by Octavia Fabia Scriba
A haughty Nova Roman cat, in double-knit sand, the blue-eyed
Bestet with a Silk Road Steppe slant, one papyrus-wracked puff with
cross-stitched mane, yawned Mary-wide 'neath a rollaway moon.
Imagine a Nova Roma bookstore on the block with its Nova-Roma logo-
collared library cat curling in the window, bringing people in,
mewing to be petted and acting like a catalyst cat.
Who can resist a Nova Roman cat with the Nova Roma logo collar in
the library or bookstore (even used books on Rome and Nova Roma)
going from person to person or napping in the window or in a corner?
And in the Nova Roma bookstores that served a Roman feast with figs,
apples, and grape juice, or a Nova Roma nestle tea with Etruscan
raisin scones, a Nova Roma library cat napped in the sun, and
brought in readers. Everyone petted the cat and learned about Nova
Roma. Think of how many mysteries, histories, and romances have been
written about Rome.
The day a new Nova Roma bookstore or library corner arched
Nova Roman catly, your chord had sparked a peaceful pride, a new
folklore. Again designed your fate in shards of books, a prop to
snare the barbs and taunts of change. Through tides of time your
message pounds against the silence of the dark with frozen gaze. On
guard to moods before a stage of hawks, all Nova Roman cats ascend
the pyramids of chance. There's nothing like a Roman cat to act as a
catalyst for bringing people into a quiet place to read books,
listen to tapes, or view videos and CDs about Nova Roma.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A Poem By A Buddhist Nova Roman
by Octavia Fabia Scriba
Ave Nova Roma
Sea of faces
Roman law is witty.
Placid art Tao Hmong
Whim
And
Placid is the root
Of Thai loom cheeses.
Gong!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Poems for Nova Roma
by Octavia Fabia Scriba
LET ME TAKE ON WALL STREET
Let me take on Nova Roma in a chastity belt,
Should the citizen be awed on her throne.
Let me gulp my Latin like a patty melt,
Should words peak in my throat on the phone.
I love
the idea of Nova Roma "stocks"
Because they keep going down up
Like a salty sea of sanity
To check remiss reality.
And when they go down,
I shall not drown, or sell or frown,
Or upward gush the race to rush
Like lemmings the edge.
Instead, I'll compound my legions
of Nova Romans with cortical maze,
Or dip my 'mouse' in softly fallen metaphors,
To skate cleanly shaven buy waves.
THE BUSINESS OF Nova Roma
There's trading room for Micro Nations on the Web, even for a Nova
Roman bond.
Still it huddles half-afraid, its eyes Wall Street-wide, competing
for less
leisure loaned.
Bring on your stockbrokers, unparagoned.
Drive in the economists, impelled and unowned.
Let rational traders sew togas for the wise
To fit bulbous investors unafraid to upclimb.
Our Roman-cloistered voices peal macabre guise.
Bonds peaking too early snare on the barbed wire of time.
Behold the flowering of Universal Mind spiel.
Investors must play "What's My Conduit?"
Retirement planning seized control of sweeping buzz appeal.
To move stocks as entertainment, sell mutuality chapters.
Bonds sell environmental histories of property risk.
Midlist brokers need super sequels as time captors.
Showbiz, let it be, and forever, temerity. So runs the disc.
TO ALL INVESTORS OVER SIXTY WHO HAVE CONSIDERED LIQUIDATING ASSETS IN
A BEAR
MARKET
Let me take on Nova Roma with insight
In this race for a proper return.
Let me search enough hindsight,
Steeled investors are quick to discern.
Let me pause in a market so bearish,
To buy theme-park surprise.
As the Fed turns rates debonairish,
Foresight-wracked brokers surmise.
Markets spin vintage group theater,
Horizontal expression of the vertical desire to acquire.
Double dominion's wish-creator,
Showbiz, not fear or greed games conspire.
And when the Nova Roma's art and technology merge
To bring out the creator in us all,
I'll take profit in the dirge,
and broadcast micronations in a food-court mall.
Irony controls markets, as figures of speech,
Virtues of technology's plug-and-play fee.
By casting dollars with global reach,
Invest in that safety-net called wait-and-see.
NOVA ROMA AS A VIRTUAL TIME CAPSULE
Nova Roma strolled wonderfully right through the door.
Asking, "Where have we improved?"
Is there creativity on the Forum floor?
Has peristalsis in a time capsule moved?
Panopticons know all, so panopticon-bound,
Push technology became too rough, a midlist
When we all need a best seller, and so we found
Roma on the Web unrisked, unmasked, unmissed.
Search Engines' stock read, "Are We Still Number One?"
While investors traded from their online gazebo.
Dreaming of DVDs skipping crazily on a run,
Webmasters sold their placebo.
Nova Romans streamline senses by masking noise.
At their exits, existence fades.
Ambient hums of Treasury bonds escape as toys.
Joy is social security, entertainment, and shades.
So, join Nova Roma and learn Latin praise.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
by Gaia Flavia Aureliana
The Flame long quenched; no incense burnt upon the altar broken.
No Eagles flew; no trumpets rang; none cried in exultation.
No vows renewed; no Senate met; no classic language spoken.
Or so it seemed - until I found the Nova Roman Nation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
JULIA DOMNA
by Patricia Cassia
What did she feel as she held her son
As he died from the stab of his brother?s knife?
She kept the Empire her husband won
A philosopher queen with a tragic life
She finally faltered, with two sons dead,
And died, refusing her daily bread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, please, wait for tomorrow for the results.
Thank you again to my friend Aedile Gnaeus Equitius Marinus for the
wonderful job!
valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile
|
