Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Mock Elections
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:11:31 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites,

There are several proposal for reforming our election
leges. Many sound good in theory, but so did the
reforms that introduced majority requirements.

I Would like to make a modest proposal. Before we
enact any of these plans into law we should hold a
mock election with historic Romans as the canidates.
If there are any problems with the plan that our
magistrates decide to put before the citizens we can
find them during the mock elections in May or June
instead of discovering them during the real elections
at the end of the year.

I Would like to see a ballot with at least two
historic Romans for each open seat that we will vote
on. That will give the voting a good test and
hopefully keep us from having to discuss needed
elections reforms again this time next year.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] I got it too
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Hirtius=20Helveticus?=" <hirtius75ch@yahoo.de>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:47:02 +0200 (CEST)

Salve Lucie Portice

--- Lucius Porticus Brutus wrote:
> to look through some of the things and vote for my
> choices...put in my
> voter code and there's no ballots? Could I be
> having a malformed code??

The problem is, that the election ended several days
ago and unfortunately, the link on the NR-Mainpage has
not been removed yet.

I suggest, that your code was working, but with no
election going on, you could of course not cast your
vote.

But as a *stressed* rogator myself, I really hope that
you and many other citizens will vote in the next
runoff.

Vale bene,

=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
-------------------------
"Res Romana Dei est, terrenis non eget armis."
(Corippus, In laudem Iustini 3, 328)
-------------------------
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
-------------------------

__________________________________________________________________

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Subject:	Re: FW: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Password Reset
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Hirtius=20Helveticus?=" <hirtius75ch@yahoo.de>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:51:32 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete

> I will be writing to
> their sysadmins
> asking that action be taken against this user who
> copied our entire
> site without permission, and used poorly-crafted
> software to do so.

I know a guy here at my university who thought he
could do that with yahoo.com (for a paper)... *rofl*

After some hours he killed off the whole LAN in one of
our institutes - moron!

Just had to share this off topic story, sorry!

Valete bene,

=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
-------------------------
"Res Romana Dei est, terrenis non eget armis."
(Corippus, In laudem Iustini 3, 328)
-------------------------
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
-------------------------

__________________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Bis zu 100 MB Speicher bei http://premiummail.yahoo.de


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Comitia Plebis tributa results
From:	Pat <pmcl@nctimes.net>
Date:	Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:41:03 -0700

"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Since the canidate with the least support has shown no
>intention to step aside for the good of Nova Roma,
>despite causing repeated runoffs persuing a hopeless
>canidacy, we need an election law that sets minimum
>standards to make the ballot for the runoff so that in
>the future minor canidates with little support won't
>tie up elections for months by forcing repeated
>runoffs.

S. Omnes,

I write from the dubious position of *not* having voted -- having been a
citizen too short a time to have been able to develop an opinion of the
candidates (indeed, with the events of my life these last few days, not
even to read their statements!). Thus, I hope my remarks will be read
generously, understanding that I am utterly unfamiliar with the candidates,
and do not seek to cast any aspersions on any of them.

I must protest your assumption, Lucius Sicinius. While it might be laudable
for a trailing candidate to withdraw, it might equally be noble to doggedly
remain on the ballot. If one were, for example, persuaded that the leading
candidate was a danger to the republic, remaining on the ballot in order to
keep him from achieving office would be a public service. As long as a
trailing candidate continues to draw those votes, despite his or her
supporters being able to see that they are supporting someone with little
chance of winning, it suggests that those voters are rather seriously
dissatisfied with the more popular candidates. To force that candidate to
withdraw suffers somewhat from being the "tyranny of the majority",
depriving that candidate's supporters of any means to vote *for* someone
they approve of. If NR's voting scheme included a "None of the above"
option, one might be able to test this, and protect against truly
unsatisfactory candidates as well. Few schemes do; the assumption being
that the voters *must* accept one of the candidates (which is a rather odd
thing to insist on in a truly republican state).

Elections and voting schemes happen to be a minor hobby of mine, and the
flat truth is that there *is no perfect system*. There are any number of
systems that have been actually used, and many more that have been
designed, seeking to avoid certain problems. Each of them, on close
examination, has its own flaws and weaknesses, and can provide results that
do not seem "proper".

One might argue that any candidate, including the leading candidate, might
just as reasonably withdraw from the race, for the same reason--to serve
the common good. If a candidate feels that there is another candidate who
is a worthy choice, it would indeed be noble to withdraw, and urge one's
supporters to support that candidate, so that the office could be filled.

Barring that, I would hope to see the candidates actually campaign
some. While it might not be reasonable to spam this list with a deluge of
campaign material, a few posts from candidates would allow them to
introduce themselves more aggressively, and argue their cases. Likewise, a
few posts from any who actively support them might also serve to enlighten
and persuade the rest of us to vote.

Had there been some posts from each of the candidates (or at least a couple
of them) in the last days prior to the election, one of them might have
picked up my vote.

Valete,

Marcus Umbrius Ursus

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false-face for the urge to
rule it."
-- H. L. Mencken --


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Mock Elections
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:07:24 -0400

Salve L. Sicinius Drusus

BRILLIANT IDEA!!!!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
To: <comitiaplebistributa@yahoogroups.com>; "Nova Roma"
<Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 8:11 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mock Elections

> Salvete Quirites,
>
> There are several proposal for reforming our election
> leges. Many sound good in theory, but so did the
> reforms that introduced majority requirements.
>
> I Would like to make a modest proposal. Before we
> enact any of these plans into law we should hold a
> mock election with historic Romans as the canidates.
> If there are any problems with the plan that our
> magistrates decide to put before the citizens we can
> find them during the mock elections in May or June
> instead of discovering them during the real elections
> at the end of the year.
>
> I Would like to see a ballot with at least two
> historic Romans for each open seat that we will vote
> on. That will give the voting a good test and
> hopefully keep us from having to discuss needed
> elections reforms again this time next year.
>
>
> =====
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Roman Citizen
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] POSTED IN THE FORUM: FINAL MEGALESIA MVNVS
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:45:29 EDT

FINAL MEGALESIA MVNVS
WHEN: 5 PM PST (17:00) First fight starts at 5:10 (17:10)

WHERE: novaroma.org/bin/chat/chat
You will have to use your citizen ID to log in.

I PROGRAM
TYROS CRIXOS AND CRASSVS
BOTH SECVTORS
NO RECORD

II PROGRAM
ATTIKVS SECVTOR XXXXII WINS X MITTE II DRAW

HERAKLES THRAX XXXIX WINS VI DRAWS

BOTH HAVE RECEIVED THE RUDIS, YET FIGHT FOR THE GLORY OF
THE GREAT GODDESS AND FOR HER PLEASVRE.

EDITOR Q FABIVS MAXIMVS

PLEASE ATTEND.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Augustus: Images of Power
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:40:12 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the "Augustus: Images of Power" website:

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/users/morford/augimage.html

This site, created by Mark Morford (Classics Department, University of
Virginia), has thumbnails (which can be expanded into lovely,
detailed pictures) of various aspects of the Mausoleum of Augustus,
the Ara Pacis (the Altar of Peace), the statue of Augustus at Prima
Porta, and the Gemma Augusta, as well as a discussion of how Augustus
used the iconography of power.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus


Subject:	RE: [SPAMSCORE] (hoog): [Nova-Roma] I got it too
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:53:02 +0200

Salve Lucius Porticus Brutus ,

<put in my voter code and there's no ballots? Could I be having a malformed
code??

The reason that you couldn't vote is because right now their aren't any
elections going on :-)
But just hold on to that voting enthusiasm ! There will be another election
very very soon!

Valete,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribune

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [SPAMSCORE] (hoog): Re: [Nova-Roma] POSTED IN THE FORUM: FINAL MEGALESIA MVNVS
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:02:15 +0200

Salve Q Fabius,

< FINAL MEGALESIA MVNVS
< WHEN: 5 PM PST (17:00) First fight starts at 5:10 (17:10)

I seem to have missed something here... But ok, is the time :
TODAY Saturday April 12 at 17:10 PST which would be April 13 at 02:10 Roman
time? If so then I'll try to pop in, and sacrifice some of my much needed
beauty sleep :-)

Vale,
Diana Moravia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The Cerealia Ritual.
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Hadrianus=20Rutilius=20Bardulus?= <gens_rutilia@yahoo.es>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 12:39:13 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete omnes cives.

This is a ritual approved by the Collegium Pontificium for the
Cerealia. It's intended to be used the last day of celebrations (april
19th), but you can perform it during all the Cerealia.

As Flamen Cerealis, I'll do this ritual on behalf of the Senate and the
People of Nova Roma.

=========================

START OF CERIALIA RITUAL

You will need the following:

1. Your home lararium with:
- A "lucerna" or sacred lamp (must be lit during the ritual).
- A "patera" or small dish for offerings.
- A "turibulum" or incense burner, with coal.
- An "accera" or recipent for incense.
- A "salinum" or recipent for salt.
- A "gutus" or recipent for liquid offerings (wine, milk, and so).
- A small bowl of clean water with cloth to wash your hands.

2. The offerings that will be used during the ritual:
- Two white candles.
- Incense (in the "accera").
- Grain or salt (in the "salinum").
- Red wine (in the "gutus").

Start of Cerialia ritual

-------------------------
(Cover your head with your toga and begin ritual)

LATINE: "Iane pater auctor deusque omnium principiorum, accipe turum
sacrum allatum atque aspice familiam meam favens sacra facientem."

ENGLISH: "Father Ianus, creator and God of all beginnings, accept this
offering of incense and look favourably down upon my family during this
time of celebration."

(Place incense on the coals of the turibulum)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iuppiter caelorum dominus omniumque deorum dearumque pater,
accipe turum sacra allatum atque aspice familiam meam favens sacra
facientem."

ENGLISH: "Iuppiter, lord of the sky and all deities, accept this
offering of incense and look favourably down upon my family during this
time of celebration."

(Place incense on the coals of the turibulum)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iuno mater uxor Iovis, accipe turum sacra allatum atque aspice
familiam meam favens sacra facientem."

ENGLISH: "Mother Iuno, wife of Iuppiter, accept this offering of
incense and look favourably down upon my family during this time of
celebration."

(Place incense on the coals of the turibulum)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iane pater, turis sacro sancte allato venereris me vinum
libante."

ENGLISH: "Father Ianus, in addition to my virtuous offering of incense,
be honoured by this offering of wine in libation."

(Pour wine into patera)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iuppiter, turis sacro sancte allato venereris me vinum
libante."

ENGLISH: "Iuppiter, in addition to my virtuous offering of incense, be
honoured by this offering of wine in libation."

(Pour wine into patera)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iuno mater, turis sacro sancte allato venereris me vinum
libante."

ENGLISH: "Mother Iuno, in addition to my virtuous offering of incense,
be honoured by this offering of wine in libation."

(Pour wine into patera)

-------------------------

(Wash hands with water in small bowl and dry)

LATINE: "Ceres, venio ad te, dum feriis tibi sanctis aguntur, ad
afferendum grana/sal(em). Accipe grana/sal(em) allata/tum et fave
familiam civitatemque bonis tuis. Gaude Cerialiis feriis pro te
veneranda actis et fave Novam Romam omnem."

ENGLISH: "Ceres, I come before you today during your sacred festival to
offer a sacrifice of grain/salt. Accept this offering of grain/salt and
bless my family and community with your bounty. May you be pleased by
the Cerealia festival being held in your honour and bless Nova Roma as
a whole."

(At this time you may enter your own personal prayers)

(After all prayers are complete offer the grain/salt to Ceres in the
patera)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Ceres, memor sum te ad inferos pervenientis duos arbores
incendisti ad viam illuminandam. Gaudeo te redeunte ad nos iterum. Pro
itinere tuo gratitudineque mea accendo has candelas duas, quibus
coleris."

ENGLISH: "Ceres, during this time I also remember your journey into the
underworld and how you lit two trees to guide you. I am glad for your
return to us and welcome you once again. As a symbol of your journey
and my thanks for your return I light two candles. May you be honoured
by this tradition."

(Light two candles)

(At this time leave the offering to Ceres a few minutes. Then bury the
offering outside your home.)

END OF CERIALIA RITUAL

==============================

COMIENZO DEL RITUAL DE LA CEREALIA

Se necesitan los siguientes elementos:

1. El lararium dom�stico, con:
- Una "lucerna" o l�mpara sagrada (debe estar encendida durante el
ritual).
- Una "patera" o bandeja de ofrendas.
- Un "turibulum" o quemador de incienso, con carbones encendidos.
- Una "accera" o recipiente para guardar el incienso.
- Un "salinum" o recipiente para la sal.
- Un "gutus" para guardar ofrendas l�quidas (vino, leche, etc.).
- Una palangana con agua limpia y una toalla para lavarse las manos.

2. Las ofrendas que se usar�n en el ritual:
- Dos velas de cera blanca.
- Incienso en polvo o en granos (en la "accera").
- Granos de trigo (o harina de trigo ya molida) o sal (en el
"salinum").
- Vino tinto (en el "gutus").

Comienzo del Ritual de la Cerealia

-------------------------
(C�brete la cabeza con un pliegue de la toga)

LATINE: "Iane pater auctor deusque omnium principiorum, accipe turum
sacrum allatum atque aspice familiam meam favens sacra facientem."

CASTELLANO: "Padre Ianus, Creador y Dios de todos los principios,
acepta esta ofrenda de incienso y mira con benevolencia a mi familia en
este tiempo de celebraci�n."

(Pon un poco de incienso sobre los carbones del turibulum)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iuppiter caelorum dominus omniumque deorum dearumque pater,
accipe turum sacra allatum atque aspice familiam meam favens sacra
facientem."

CASTELLANO: "Iuppiter, Se�or del Cielo y de todos los Dioses, acepta
esta ofrenda de incienso y mira con benevolencia a mi familia durante
este tiempo de celebraci�n."

(Pon un poco de incienso sobre los carbones del turibulum)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iuno mater uxor Iovis, accipe turum sacra allatum atque aspice
familiam meam favens sacra facientem."

CASTELLANO: "Madre Iuno, esposa de Iuppiter, acepta esta ofrenda de
incienso y mira con benevolencia a mi familia durante este tiempo de
celebraci�n."

(Pon un poco de incienso sobre los carbones del turibulum)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iane pater, turis sacro sancte allato venereris me vinum
libante."

CASTELLANO: "Padre Ianus, adem�s de mi buena ofrenda de incienso, s�
enaltecido con esta libaci�n de vino."

(Vierte un poco de vino en la patera)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iuppiter, turis sacro sancte allato venereris me vinum
libante."

CASTELLANO: "Iuppiter, adem�s de mi buena ofrenda de incienso, s�
enaltecido con esta libaci�n de vino."

(Vierte un poco de vino en la patera)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Iuno mater, turis sacro sancte allato venereris me vinum
libante."

CASTELLANO: "Madre Iuno, adem�s de mi buena ofrenda de incienso, s�
enaltecida con esta libaci�n de vino."

(Vierte un poco de vino en la patera)

-------------------------

(L�vate las manos con agua de la palangana y s�calas con la toalla)

LATINE: "Ceres, venio ad te, dum feriis tibi sanctis aguntur, ad
afferendum grana/sal(em). Accipe grana/sal(em) allata/tum et fave
familiam civitatemque bonis tuis. Gaude Cerialiis feriis pro te
veneranda actis et fave Novam Romam omnem."

CASTELLANO: "Ceres, vengo ante ti en tu sagrado festival, a ofrecerte
un sacrificio de trigo/sal. Acepta esta ofrenda de trigo/sal y bendice
a mi familia y a mi comunidad con tu bondad. Que te sea agradable la
fiesta de la Cerealia, celebrada en tu honor, y por ella bendice a toda
Nova Roma."

(Despu�s de esto, cada cual puede a�adir sus propias oraciones)

(Terminadas las oraciones, se coloca el trigo o la sal en la patera)

-------------------------

LATINE: "Ceres, memor sum te ad inferos pervenientis duos arbores
incendisti ad viam illuminandam. Gaudeo te redeunte ad nos iterum. Pro
itinere tuo gratitudineque mea accendo has candelas duas, quibus
coleris."

CASTELLANO: "Ceres, durante este tiempo tambi�n recuerdo tu b�squeda en
el Inframundo y c�mo encendiste dos �rboles para iluminarte. Me
regocijo por tu regreso a nosotros y te doy la bienvenida de nuevo.
Como s�mbolo de tu viaje y en agradecimiento por tu feliz vuelta,
enciendo estas dos velas. S� enaltecida con ello."

(Enciende las dos velas con el fuego sagrado de la lucerna)

(Deja las ofrendas en el lararium unos minutos. Despu�s, ret�ralas,
limpia la patera y dem�s �tiles y apaga la lucerna)

FIN DEL RITUAL DE LA CEREALIA

=========================

Valete optime,

Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus
Flamen Cerealis Novae Romae

___________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versi�n GRATIS
Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y m�s...
http://messenger.yahoo.es


Subject:	Re: [SPAMSCORE] (hoog): Re: [Nova-Roma] POSTED IN THE FORUM: FINAL MEGALESIA...
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:20:33 EDT

In a message dated 4/12/03 1:59:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, diana@pandora.be
writes:

> TODAY Saturday April 12 at 17:10 PST which would be April 13 at 02:10 Roman
> time? If so then I'll try to pop in, and sacrifice some of my much needed
> beauty sleep :-)
>

Yes that is correct. 17:10 PST SAT the 12th

Fabivs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] MEGALESIA CHARIOT RACES (Great Final)
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 14:45:29 +0200

Salvete Romani,

I, as dominus factionis of Albata, am more than overjoyed to see our great factio win!!!!

Congratulations to frater Gnaeus for his magnificent victory. As I have said oft times before, factio Albata is small but brave... We are not shy to use offensive, agressive tactics in order to safeguard our victory. After all, spectacle is what the public wants, and spectacle is what we deliver. I hope that this victory will be the first of many.

I would also like to thank Magna Mater for granting factio Albata its victory. Maximas gratias tibi ago, Magna Mater!

Valete bene,
M. Octavius Solaris

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] LUDI CIRCENSES: the place-lists
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:17:44 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

the Megalesia Ludi are accomplished and the first Ludi Circenses too.
The place-lists of players and factiones have been reseted in the
official website http://aediles.novaroma.org/ludicircenses.htm

The website of each Factio have been updated with the latest news and
new players and new team standings.
Visit the following websites:
RUSSATA: http://aediles.novaroma.org/russata/
ALBATA: http://aediles.novaroma.org/albata/
VENETA: http://aediles.novaroma.org/veneta/
PRAESINA: http://aediles.novaroma.org/praesina/

I thank my wonderful Cohors for the good job, specially Illustrus
Iovinus for histories and Gnaeus Salix Galaicus for the organization.
Now Crerealia Ludi are started, enjoy the new virtual chariot races
by the Plebeian Aediles.

The Place-list are following:

..................................
FACTIONES PLACE-LIST '56
..................................
1) Russata ... 18 points
2) Albata ... 14 p.
3) Veneta ... 9 p.
4) Praesina ... 8 p.

..................................
AURIGAE PLACE-LIST '56
..................................
1) Gn. Octavius Noricus [Impactus Infrenatus] ... 10 p.
2) T. Apollonius Cicatrix [Eversor] ... 6 p.
3) Ga. Minucius Iovinus [Ossifragus] ... 5 p.
4) G. Iulius Scaurus [Raptor Cruentus] ... 5 p.

Enjoy Cerealia Ludi!

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Veneta Flag!!
From:	"Alejandro Carneiro" <piteas@telefonica.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:27:37 -0000

Avete, citizens!

The members of the Factio Veneta have already elected their flag-
logo-banner. The symbol of their factio.

It was made by the honorable Gaius Linius Falco.

You can see in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta/files/veneta-copy.jpg

Valete et Bona Fortuna!

Salix Galaicus
Scriba Primus Ludorum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Albata Flag!!
From:	"Alejandro Carneiro" <piteas@telefonica.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:02:15 -0000

Avete, citizens!

The members of the Factio Albata have already elected their flag-
logo-banner. The symbol of their factio.
Well... It�s a famous statue. A bit heavy flag :-)

You can see in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factio_albata/files/albata.gif

Valete et Bona Fortuna!

Salix Galaicus
Scriba Primus Ludorum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:03:48 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sinicius Drusus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

Testing the various proposed systems sounds like a
good idea. I wonder, however, whether we really need
to put our citizens and especially our already
overworked Rogators through what would amount to at
least three mock elections.

Since real magistracies are not at stake here, would
it not be better simply to knock together a computer
programme which could run simulations of the various
different systems? We could then run as many
variations as we liked, checking every eventuality,
without causing disruption.

Sadly I don't have the expertise to volunteer to
create such a programme, but I know that they can be
and have been made, and my (limited) understanding is
that it would not be difficult for someone who knew
what to do.

Have we any citizens who are qualified to say whether
this would be practical?

Cordus

=====

www.strategikon.org

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Please email me when the Roman Times is published next. Thanks.
From:	"biojournalism" <biojournalism@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:25:50 -0000

Would someone be kind enough to email me a notice when the Roman
Times is published next? I'd like to read your wonderful
publication, but don't know the Web site to click on. Or anyone can
email me the Web site if it's up there already. Thanks.
Octavia
biojournalism@hotmail.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:48:28 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:

> Testing the various proposed systems sounds like a
> good idea. I wonder, however, whether we really need
> to put our citizens and especially our already
> overworked Rogators through what would amount to at
> least three mock elections.

Salve Cordus,

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't say as Rogator I'm
exactly overworked. If it weren't for the Tribucian run-offs as
Rogator I'd have had nothing to do for the past 3-1/2 months as no
legislation had been brought forth before any Comitia for
consideration. I'd say rather than overworked, I'd say just a little
bored with seeing the same old faces every month. <G>

While computer simulations are nice and have a purpose their ability
to simulate real human behavior is limited as humans do things
outside the parameters of pure logic. On the otherhand it would be
real hard to get up the voter gusto for a mock election when its hard
enough to get only a handful of Nova Roman's to vote in real
elections.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 12:41:25 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,

A Computer Simulation would require data on historic
voting patterns in Nova Roma. Obtaining that data
would violate the privacy of our citizens. Once the
program was written there is no way to insure it's
accurate without comparing the data to a series of
actual elections.

--- "A. Apollonius Cordus" <cordus@strategikon.org>
wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator L. Sinicius Drusus
> and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> Testing the various proposed systems sounds like a
> good idea. I wonder, however, whether we really need
> to put our citizens and especially our already
> overworked Rogators through what would amount to at
> least three mock elections.
>
> Since real magistracies are not at stake here, would
> it not be better simply to knock together a computer
> programme which could run simulations of the various
> different systems? We could then run as many
> variations as we liked, checking every eventuality,
> without causing disruption.
>
> Sadly I don't have the expertise to volunteer to
> create such a programme, but I know that they can be
> and have been made, and my (limited) understanding
> is
> that it would not be difficult for someone who knew
> what to do.
>
> Have we any citizens who are qualified to say
> whether
> this would be practical?
>
> Cordus
>
> =====
>
>
> www.strategikon.org
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Plus
> For a better Internet experience
> http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:40:57 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Aule Apolloni,

> Testing the various proposed systems sounds like a
> good idea. I wonder, however, whether we really need
> to put our citizens and especially our already
> overworked Rogators through what would amount to at
> least three mock elections.
>
> Since real magistracies are not at stake here, would
> it not be better simply to knock together a computer
> programme which could run simulations of the various
> different systems? We could then run as many
> variations as we liked, checking every eventuality,
> without causing disruption.

Not a problem; all I have to do is make a copy of the regular
voting program and remove the line that strips out the voter codes.
The Rogatores usually check these for validity and eliminate
duplicates, but for a fake election I can do this programmatically.

I could set up a fake election, if needed, very quickly.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folks!)
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:36:56 -0000

Gentlemen and Ladies,

I, Publius Tarquitius Rufus, member of the gens Tarquitii, hereby
officially request the proper procedures to submit the following Lex
for approval:
=================================================================

Lex Tarquitius Colonie

I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova Romans to be active
as a group and as individuals, the following is proposed:

1. Within a given Providence as geographical boundaries, A group of
THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to create a colony.

2. Applications for all Colonies must be submitted to the Senate
AFTER it is approved by the Governor.
2a. ALL applications are required to be submitted to the
Senate by the Governor if the application is received 10 days prior
to the next Senate meeting. If the Governor disapproves the
application, the Governor must forward the application and the
reasons for disapproval to the Senate for their review, and possible
acceptance.
2b. All Colonies awaiting approval are
considered "Provisional Colonies" until Gubernatorial, and Senate
Approval is Granted to the colony.

3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on Colony Council
(***NOTE: 1/2 of the Colony members MUST have paid dues to Nova Roma)
Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders

4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts ANNUALLY, in March.

5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in order to be
eligible for election. (NO wavers on this item permitted)

6. There must be a website created within 15 days of approval of the
Colony by the Providence's Governor.
6a. All documents related to the colony shall by typed and
saved on the site website. The originals shall be maintained at the
home/office of the Head Magistrate or colony scribe.

7. Recommended Approval Process: 1 -Governor of Providence (if no
reply, send to the Consuls for approval, with notification of Senate
required). This will give the colony a "provisional" (or "Latin
Rights") status. 2-The application must be approved by the Senate at
its next scheduled meeting. Once approved by the Senate, it becomes
a "Roman Rights Colony".

8. After initial opening of Colony, if a person has paid their dues
or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the colony is
automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership council will
approve or disapprove the application. If dues are then paid to
council, acceptance is automatic.

9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings, and Leadership
council must meet monthly.

10. Colony Dues - Set by colony, but must be reported to Governor and
Consuls quarterly.

11. Appointed positions within Colony:
a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose. but here are some
recommendations:

1. Webmaster
2. Quaestor
3. Scribe (P/R man)
4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and Governor
approval)

================================================================

I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the Tribunes of the
Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate. Please feel free to
post on this, as I am here to learn!

Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Nova Roman Assudii 2003

*****And to see who is still reading....m\next, I plan to author a
Gens reform bill, to submit in June....time to lose some "closed"
gens!


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folks!)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Brett=20Murphy?= <aussiegent@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:06:19 +1000 (EST)

Is that on the subject of colonies or am I mistaken?

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folks!)
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:36:52 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Publius Tarquitius,

First I would like to make some points about your
proposal.

When the Tax Lex was proposed I sugested that the
Consul change the Phrase "Prolatariat" to "Capti
Censi" because the phrase "Prolatariat" had picked up
some modern political baggage that could cause
misunderstandings. Unfortunally the same holds for the
phrase "colony". It has too many modern undertones of
explotation by an Impearlist power. I Think we would
be better served if we used the Phrase Municipia
instead of Colony for our local groups.

Next is the geographic size of a Municipia. I would
like a provision that limited any Municipia to a size
that would make face to face meetings convinent,
perhaps a requirement that a Municipia can't include
citizens who live more than 100 KM, (62 miles) from a
central meeting point. For example if a Municipia of
Atlanta was organized members would have to reside
within 100 KM (62 Miles) of Atlanta. I would also like
a requirement that Municipiae hold at least quaterly
face to face meetings.

Also before we start recognizing Municipiae we need a
standard charter that is similar to Nova Roma's
Constitution that each Municipia would operate under.

To get this measure placed before one of the Comitiae
you will have to get one of the Consuls or one of the
tribunes to promulgate it.

--- William Rogers <wlr107@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen and Ladies,
>
> I, Publius Tarquitius Rufus, member of the gens
> Tarquitii, hereby
> officially request the proper procedures to submit
> the following Lex
> for approval:
>
=================================================================
>
> Lex Tarquitius Colonie
>
> I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova
> Romans to be active
> as a group and as individuals, the following is
> proposed:
>
> 1. Within a given Providence as geographical
> boundaries, A group of
> THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to
> create a colony.
>
> 2. Applications for all Colonies must be submitted
> to the Senate
> AFTER it is approved by the Governor.
> 2a. ALL applications are required to be submitted
> to the
> Senate by the Governor if the application is
> received 10 days prior
> to the next Senate meeting. If the Governor
> disapproves the
> application, the Governor must forward the
> application and the
> reasons for disapproval to the Senate for their
> review, and possible
> acceptance.
> 2b. All Colonies awaiting approval are
> considered "Provisional Colonies" until
> Gubernatorial, and Senate
> Approval is Granted to the colony.
>
> 3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on
> Colony Council
> (***NOTE: 1/2 of the Colony members MUST have paid
> dues to Nova Roma)
> Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
> Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
> Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
> Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders
>
> 4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts
> ANNUALLY, in March.
>
> 5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in
> order to be
> eligible for election. (NO wavers on this item
> permitted)
>
> 6. There must be a website created within 15 days of
> approval of the
> Colony by the Providence's Governor.
> 6a. All documents related to the colony shall by
> typed and
> saved on the site website. The originals shall be
> maintained at the
> home/office of the Head Magistrate or colony scribe.
>
> 7. Recommended Approval Process: 1 -Governor of
> Providence (if no
> reply, send to the Consuls for approval, with
> notification of Senate
> required). This will give the colony a "provisional"
> (or "Latin
> Rights") status. 2-The application must be approved
> by the Senate at
> its next scheduled meeting. Once approved by the
> Senate, it becomes
> a "Roman Rights Colony".
>
> 8. After initial opening of Colony, if a person has
> paid their dues
> or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the
> colony is
> automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership
> council will
> approve or disapprove the application. If dues are
> then paid to
> council, acceptance is automatic.
>
> 9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings,
> and Leadership
> council must meet monthly.
>
> 10. Colony Dues - Set by colony, but must be
> reported to Governor and
> Consuls quarterly.
>
> 11. Appointed positions within Colony:
> a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose.
> but here are some
> recommendations:
>
> 1. Webmaster
> 2. Quaestor
> 3. Scribe (P/R man)
> 4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and
> Governor
> approval)
>
>
================================================================
>
> I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the
> Tribunes of the
> Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate.
> Please feel free to
> post on this, as I am here to learn!
>
> Publius Tarquitius Rufus
> Nova Roman Assudii 2003
>
>
> *****And to see who is still reading....m\next, I
> plan to author a
> Gens reform bill, to submit in June....time to lose
> some "closed"
> gens!
>
>
>
>
>
>

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Munis is starting
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:57:38 -0700

Avete Omnes,

In the Nova Roma chatroom, the Munus is just now starting.

Please feel free to join us!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]