Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:35:51 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:

> Both the Rogator and Senator Sinicius Drusus expressed
> doubts about the usefulness of simulated elections as
> opposed to 'real fakes'

> I can't help feeling that if both the Rogator and the
> Senator have a similar assumption which I don't have,
> it is probably my fault rather than theirs, so I'd be
> grateful if they would point out the fourth goal of a
> simulation which would require voters to actually vote
> in a realistic way.

Salve,

I can't speak for Senator Drusus, but my concern about computer
simulations is their usefulness in dealing with humans. Computer
simulations work great in cases where there are physical laws that
are not mutable. Humans on the other hand are unpredictable and the
myraid of premutations to be considered makes for extreme difficulty
to write a program to consider all possibilities. Any given
simulation no matter how well thought out and complex the programming
will only respond to the input data in the way the program is written
to respond. I'm not against using computer simulation, but the only
way to test any system that deals with human interactions is to have
real human interactions with the system before being put into place.

A real live case of this that pops into my mind was the Three-Mile
Island accident back in the 70's. The whole accident could have been
averted quickly and easily except the control system layout that made
perfect sense to the design engineers made absolutely no sense to the
operators when faced with an emergency situation. The controls lay
out was designed with ease of assembly and maintnance in mind not
with panicked controllers in mind so the right switches and valves
were placed in an intuitive order.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Iraqi National Museum
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:25:52 -0700 (PDT)

My friend Drusus
At many a times we have seen eye to eye,however I must
disagree with you here. I feel that there was nothing
that could be done to stop such actions from
occurring. The city is in chaos and there may have
been no way to stop such things. The soldiers had
there hands full with trying to restore order and
dodging bullets.

However your request of us in NR to write and ask for
help in recovering the lost artifacts are right on the
button. They should cut off the roads and avenues,
that would allow the loss of such great finds.

My hope is that we shall recover them and be allowed
to send in archaeologist later to make finds of things
not yet seen.
Thank you Drusus for the e-mail address I shall take
up your battle cry.
Your friend
Brutis

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I Have just sent the following message to President
> Bush.
>
> Mr. President,
>
> I'm shocked and saddened that US Forces took no
> action
> to protect the Iraqi National Museum in Baghdad.
> Relics that represent the common hieratage of all
> Western nations have been looted in the greatest
> cultural loss since the Library of Alexanderia was
> lost in Ancient times. Our Failure to protect our
> common history has placed an indelible stain on the
> liberation of the Iraqi peoples.
>
> I'm begging you to order that the strictest possible
> export restrictions be placed on Iraq to prevent
> these
> priceless relics from being smuggled out of Iraq,
> and
> that you order our forces to lend all possible
> assistance to the directors of the Iraqi National
> Museum in recovering as much of the collection as
> possible.
>
> John Dobbins
>
> Quirites,
>
> I Urge each of you, espically those of you who hold
> American Citizenship, to contact the Whitehouse on
> behalf of the Iraqi National Museum before it's too
> late to recover at least part of the collection.
>
> President Bush's email address is
> president@whitehouse.gov
>
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Senator
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> and more
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>

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The Vindolanda Tablets Again
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:51:36 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the collection of Vindolanda tablets in the British
Museum:

http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/compass/index.html

Unfortunately it isn't directly to the tablets. Once you reach the
index.html click on "Continue to COMPASS"; then on the main Compass
page and enter "Vindolanda tablets" in Quick Search, then click on "Find".

You will find photographs (with a very nice enlargement option) and
translations of seven tablets, as well as short essays on related
topics and brief bibliographies; there are also links to related
artifacts in the BM's collection.

Sorry about the extended instructions, but the BM's computer didn't
like reproduction of the direct link to the search results.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 03:01:00 -0700 (PDT)

Just a simple question

Do you think we can find the items on that
black-market, or do we have to be there.
By the way where is this black-market,is there a
black-market on line or is it off-line.....and where
is this line???
I'm still looking all over the place for this line.
I was on a line yesterday,but it didn't do anything.

So if we try to find the black-market but I'm color
blind, so what if I run into the market but it's
really red, then what happens.
Just a simple question.

Tiberius Porticus Rex
The Greater

--- ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent
> looting at the national Museum of Iraq, which
> appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
> disasters of its type in history. The following
> points apply:
>
> * Some of the looting was certainly done by
> desperate people looking for objects to sell for
> food, etc. And some of it was certainly done by
> people with underworld connections hoping to sell
> the works on the black market.
>
> * While it is unfortunate that the museum was not
> properly guarded at the time, as a former military
> man I can somewhat imagine the turmoil in Baghdad at
> the time, the limited resources available to deal
> with it, and the simple probability that protection
> for the museum simply "fell through the cracks." It
> is spilled milk that no recriminations can unspill.
>
> * However, a museum is a vital part of any
> culture's collective memory, particularly a culture
> as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq. This destruction
> therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
>
> * Since our military is currently responsible for
> what happens in Bachdad, we have a certain moral
> obligation to minimize the damage. Two ways we can
> do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export
> of museum artifacts, and by making the recognition
> and confiscation of such artifacts a priority. We
> did much the same thing at the close of World War
> Two, whan looted art objects were found all over
> Germany.
>

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Chariot Races First Round!
From:	TiAnO <tiberius_ann@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 05:16:52 -0700 (PDT)

Salvet omnes quirites, First let me please tell all the nation, that I very much enjoy the wellwritten stories of the races! However, I find it infuriating that this is allready the second time in the last 12 months, that my chariot was sabotaged and the culprit not found!!!!!!! This looks like a well organized crime against the factio praesina and its champion!! I am sure that our dominus factionis and my personal security service will not tolerate that my chariot and its driver are pulled into the dirt like that!! I am positive, that we will find the culprit and take him to the praetors before the next races begin! Valete bene, Tiberius Annaeus Otho (PS. This is a virtual reaction of a very angry owner of a twice sabotaged chariot and not the real feelings of myself!!!)

Tiberius Annaeus Otho (TiAnO) Factio Praesina
Lictor curiatus
Translator linguae Germanicae
Paterfamilias gentis Annaearum
Praefectus scribarum regionis Germaniae Superioris
Tribunus laticlavius militum legionis XI CPF
Homepage: http://www.tiano.ch.tt

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:07:34 -0700

Ave,

According to CNN, at least a report I heard this morning, some of the looters are delivering the items they looted to their local Mosque.

Respectfully,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: G.Porticus Brutis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 3:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq

Just a simple question

Do you think we can find the items on that
black-market, or do we have to be there.
By the way where is this black-market,is there a
black-market on line or is it off-line.....and where
is this line???
I'm still looking all over the place for this line.
I was on a line yesterday,but it didn't do anything.

So if we try to find the black-market but I'm color
blind, so what if I run into the market but it's
really red, then what happens.
Just a simple question.

Tiberius Porticus Rex
The Greater

--- ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent
> looting at the national Museum of Iraq, which
> appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
> disasters of its type in history. The following
> points apply:
>
> * Some of the looting was certainly done by
> desperate people looking for objects to sell for
> food, etc. And some of it was certainly done by
> people with underworld connections hoping to sell
> the works on the black market.
>
> * While it is unfortunate that the museum was not
> properly guarded at the time, as a former military
> man I can somewhat imagine the turmoil in Baghdad at
> the time, the limited resources available to deal
> with it, and the simple probability that protection
> for the museum simply "fell through the cracks." It
> is spilled milk that no recriminations can unspill.
>
> * However, a museum is a vital part of any
> culture's collective memory, particularly a culture
> as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq. This destruction
> therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
>
> * Since our military is currently responsible for
> what happens in Bachdad, we have a certain moral
> obligation to minimize the damage. Two ways we can
> do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export
> of museum artifacts, and by making the recognition
> and confiscation of such artifacts a priority. We
> did much the same thing at the close of World War
> Two, whan looted art objects were found all over
> Germany.
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Fw: ToC for Greece and Rome 50-1
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:08:17 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: <oup@OUP.CO.UK>
To: <GROMEJ-L@webber.oup.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 2:44 AM
Subject: ToC for Greece and Rome 50-1

> Greece and Rome -- Table of Contents Alert
>
> A new issue of Greece and Rome
> has been made available:
>
> April 2003; Vol. 50, No. 1
>
> URL: http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Alcestis: Euripides to Ted Hughes
> L. P. E. Parker, pp. 1-30
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500001.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Economic Rationalism in Fourth-Century Bce Athens
> Paul Christesen, pp. 31-56
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500031.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why Socrates was not a Farmer: Xenophon's Oeconomicus as a Philosophical
Dialogue
> Gabriel Danzig, pp. 57-76
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500057.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Wine, Women, and the Polis: Gender and the Formation of the City-State in
Archaic Rome
> Brigette Ford Russell, pp. 77-84
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500077.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Notes on Contributors p. 84
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Cornelius Nepos and the Biographical Tradition
> Frances Titchener, pp. 85-99
>
> http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/500085.sgm.abs.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> C. E. W. Steel: Cicero, Rhetoric, and Empire. Oxford Classical Monographs
> Reviewed by Liv Mariah Yarrow, pp. 100-101
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Greek Literature
> Stephen Halliwell, pp. 102-107
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Latin Literature
> D. E. Hill, pp. 107-113
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Greek History
> Hans Van Wees, pp. 113-117
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Roman History
> Barbara Levick, pp. 117-120
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Art and Archaeology
> Nigel Spivey, pp. 121-123
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: Philosophy
> George Boys-Stones, pp. 123-132
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject Reviews: General
> Christopher Burnand and Katherine Clarke, pp. 133-138
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Books Received pp. 139-146
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Index of Reviews pp. 147-149
>
> You are registered for the Oxford University Press journals' email
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	14 Apr 2003 11:19:16 -0300

Salvete,

in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
punished as due.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus

On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the national Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst disasters of its type in history. The following points apply:
>
> * Some of the looting was certainly done by desperate people looking for objects to sell for food, etc. And some of it was certainly done by people with underworld connections hoping to sell the works on the black market.
>
> * While it is unfortunate that the museum was not properly guarded at the time, as a former military man I can somewhat imagine the turmoil in Baghdad at the time, the limited resources available to deal with it, and the simple probability that protection for the museum simply "fell through the cracks." It is spilled milk that no recriminations can unspill.
>
> * However, a museum is a vital part of any culture's collective memory, particularly a culture as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq. This destruction therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
>
> * Since our military is currently responsible for what happens in Bachdad, we have a certain moral obligation to minimize the damage. Two ways we can do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export of museum artifacts, and by making the recognition and confiscation of such artifacts a priority. We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted art objects were found all over Germany.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] CEREALIA MUNERA - FIRST DAY OF FIGHTS!
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:53:06 -0300 (ART)

THE MOST EXPECTED MOMENT OF APRIL!

On the first day before the ides of april, the public gathered on the Circus built for the games (called on mockery �the amphitheatre Fauste�). There was lots of expectation between the crowd specially after the controversy on the forum days before. The sun was gloriously on the sky, the temperature was high, sure 35�C on shadows. It seems that Ceres and the Sun had a deal and the coming of Proserpina has brought lots of heat to the world.

On the honour tribune, the two plebeain aediles, Faustus and Scribonius, and the flaminen Cerealis Bardulus, who seated after ending the religious cerimonies. Next, the seats of the Senators and others Magistrates. The circus was specially filled with plebeians, as they worshipped on Cerealia to make vows to the plebeian goddess.

As called by the horns, the sixteen fighters rounded the arena and cried �Te morituri salutant!�. The Aedile Faustus retributes the greeting crying:

- We, Plebeain Aediles, hereby open the gladiatorial combats on honour of Ceres, and may the Goddess find pleasure on them and bless the Res Publica! We salute the Magistrates, Priests and Tribunes of Nova Roma, and invite all fellow patricians to join the plebeians on joy and ledice.

But the public was smart to note: There was no rudus on the Aedile�s hand or on his servants...

COMBAT 1

MURMILLO X SAMNITE

The horn announces the first fight. What a surprise. These gladiators were sent by two giants, magistrates many times. Aeternus, a samnite of the former aedile T. Appolonius against Claw, the tiger of the east, a murmillo from Senator Audens.

They come from separate doors and stand one in front of another breathing courage and respect.

The horns announce the fight to start. Claw do as a murmillo, expected attack, on aggressive mode. Aeternus tries to block with the shield... IN VANE! Blood splits on the sands for the first time! Aeternus falls, a big rip on the brass cuirass on the chest.

- Come on! Come on! � Claw says like a tiger. � The novo romans desire blood to pacify the gods.

- Then the blood shall be the yours! � says slowly Aeternus coming up.

- Ah, dog, thou shalt fell... � the cunning of Aeternus has showed itself. He does a studied attack on Claw�s army. But the galerum wards it off. The defensive fighter Aeternus had no lucky at all.

Claw laughs. The sword descends. The shield of Aeternus is broken! Again, Aeternus tries a reaction, again he fells with dizziness.

Another strike of the Murmillo and Aeternus is on the sands spitting dark blood. Claw track on his neck and raise the hand to the public. Since Aeternus was not much successful on neither blow, the public has not mercy of the samnite.

- Blood, blood, blood! � cries the crowd! Thumbs down!

The murmillo has no doubt and pierced him with his heavy sword besides the nevil; so all Aeternus� bowels gushed forth-open ground, and darkness clouded his eyes.

The public got frenzy acclaiming between shock and delight.

The caronte-masked servants pick up Aeternus remains and the ferrous Clay tiger-like exit the arena.

The Aedile Faustus upon the honour Tribune just smiles on seeing the faces of the assembly.

- This is just the first round. The winner covered with glory will be assigned to a next day to a new fight.

VICTORIA CLAW, the MURMILLO

COMBAT 2

THRACIAN X RETIARIUS

The next fight the Fates decided the sadness of G. Iulius Scaurus. Two of his fighters matched together. Borysthenes a thracian against Felicianus a Retirarius. They were supposed to be friends, but the arena claimed the blood of one.

The first strike was from Felicianus, fast movement and his trident made three holes on Borystenes right arm. But the thracian didn�t give up. The dagger shined cutting the face of Felicianus, hurting him merciless.

- Damn you! � cried the retiarius

- Ah, ah, ah! Now taste these! � The dagger attacked the naked Felicianus Belly.

- Oh! � the crowd stands up of the chairs! The daggers flies! Got on the holes of Felicianus web, with a strong pull the retiarius took the blade meters away. But he hasn�t stop! Fast moving, the web instant after was around all the thracian body. A strong pull and Borysthenes was on the sands defenseless. The crowd divided itself. Some thumbs up, some thumbs down.

Felicianus decided for taking out the rival out of Scaurus� favors, the trident went on Borysthenes chest, which life vanished to the shadows of deep Hades.

- FELICIANUS ATROX! � cried the crowd.

VICTORIA FELICIANUS, the retiarius

COMBAT 3

THRACIAN X ESSEDARIUS

Another two warriors come onto the arena. A thracian Leo Aquilonis, from G. Vipsanius Agrippa. And what a surprise, a veight and the unconfusing sound of a chariot. There is the first essedarius, Flavius Cheruscus, from Senator M. Arminius Maior.

Flavius rounds the thracian like a shark overseeing the victim. And he doesn�t wait the signal, he hurled his far shadowing spear; and on Leo�s left shoulder the spear point passed, and smote not his body; Leo had a pretty good evasion. The thracian caught the spear from the ground. The javelin sped not from his hand in vain, but smote the breast between the nipples, and thrust him from the chariot. The horse, confused, runs away.

Against all wounds, Flavius stand up, even almost trespassed, a miracle having survived. A small pillum was attached on his belt, and he throws it. Weak, the javelin has blocked by Leo�s shield. Again Cheruscus searched the belt for something, but his lungs were compromised. Blood on abundance was exiting the spear sited on his chest, he falls under the knees and fells prone, and his armor clanged upon him.

There was no time for mercy, death caught Flavius before.

VICTORIA LEO ACHILONIS, a THRACIAN

COMBAT 4

MURMILLO X SAMNITE

On the Arena now enter the murmillo Marcus Claudius Seneca. Some doubts arose upon the crowd, is he a roman citizen? A gladiator having the name of a philosopher? What a dishonor for the stoic school!

Another side, the saminte Marius the Libyan. His dark skin on the sun resembles the warriors of kings Jugurta and Juba, the ally Massinissa, the might of the sand warriors.

They approach themselves.

The first strike comes from the murmillo, very aggressive. The Libyan tries to block on the shield, but failed. But he doesn�t fail on the ground, cautiously studying the adversary, a blow from his campanian sword clangs against the helm of his adversary. Unfortunately, the long time studied attack was weak, and has not knocked the enemy

On the counterstrike, the murmillo make the Libyan blood split. The Libyan vacillates and again a weak movement was evaded by Seneca which sword again doesn�t return in vain. A most violent stroke he delivered at the Libyan�s helm, and all his head was broken in twain within the strong helm, and prone on the dead he fell, and round him was poured death that slayeth the spirit.

There was no time for the grace stroke. Seneca mocked:

- Carpe diem!

Pretty stoic this Seneca!

VICTORIA SENECA, a MURMILLO

COMBAT 5

ESSEDARIUS X RETIARIUS

What a surprise and delight for all men. A WOMAN on the games! Inscribed by Senator Patricia Cassia, most blessed by Queen Minerva, comes on the red sands Zenobia, a retiarius.

But... wait... The retiarius �uniform� is almost naked! Zenobia is shameless to show her breasts on the arena to the crowd. There is some murmur upon the public:

- Oh tempora, oh mores! Where is the pudicitia publica? The aediles don�t see it?

- No, it is not a question of pudicitia. It is a secret weapon. While the adversary is diverted seeing her breasts, she strikes! Very intelligent...

- Humm... why complaining? From this distance of this low cost chairs, I can�t see even the swords, much less the breasts!

- On the Seneca�s play THE TROJANS the captive women used to show their breasts when mourning.

- And the Amazons fighted on with a breast naked as well.

- One, not THE two.

- Oh, come on! This is not a tribunal to disqualify the precedents!

- But the breast means the nurture and sacred functions of...

- Shut up and stop complaining! The horn is calling the other fighter!

Another from Iulus Scaurus�s army: Zosimus, an essedarius, comes on a black biga, which golden hairness. Like the a God, Zozimus was not afraid to cry:

- This is the chariot of Pluto Chrysenios, who kidnapped Proserpina. And I come as the Lord of the Underground to take a virgin soul with me!

- So come on, daring god! � shouted Zenobia. � If I would be the swift daughter of Queen Ceres, your theatric play, essedarius, could frighten me. But I�m from the same substance of Atalanta, Pentessileia and Hypolita! Many men have discovered that a delicate woman hand brings faster Mors!

- So shall it be, bitch! � and Zosimus throws a brass spear. Zenobia was unlucky, having not evaded on time, the spear ripped up her beautiful belly. But the mortal point just ripped, not picking some organ, a ugly wound, but not mortal.

Zenobia cried a loud war cry and attacked with the trident. Zozimus make the horse run, but almost too late. The three sharp points passed one inch far his ear. The biga evaded the essedarius away, to another strike.

Zenobia waits on the middle of the arena breathing courage. Zozimus comes on his biga fast, another spear on hand. The retiaria throws the web!

Luck essedarius. The web enovelated the spear, being shunt on its path. Zozimus throw away the now useless spear and picked another on the car. Zenobia without her web again prepared to face him with the might trident.

The biga comes again. The retiaria lost again the strike, while swiftly he cast upon Zenobia with his shinning spear.

Not avoiding the black fate, Zenobia received the spear, for the gods had willed her death. Her the spear struck at the meeting of the head and neck, on the last joint of the spine, and cut in twain both the tendons. And her head, and mouth and nose, as she fell, reached the earth long before his legs and knees.

Zozimus stopped the run of his horses, descended on foot and came to spoil the dead:

- The beauty, so fugacious!

And on the public, between the mournings lastimating the courage of the dead woman, all charged as cruel the Fate that forbade them to give her thumbs up on retribution.

A citizen cried direct to the Honour Tribune.

- Come on, Aedile! Spare us of so great bloodlust! Haven�t you, so wise on these arts, foreknown this carnage?

Aedile Faustus arose angry form his honour seat of presiding magistrate.

- Was I the trainer? Am I the one who delivers mortal spears on the necks? Am I on the loom of the Destiny? Am I that decide what technique the warriors uses one against the other? Do you think I�m not shocked? Forsooth, this Ludi are being too bloody. But the rules are correct. Forebondings had I? May they so please the needs of our religio! What should I guess about, now? For me, all the thumbs should be up. But you see now what Fate desired. I�m as amazed as you. But I assure you, no warrior felt today without courage. Call the next two! Maybe now there will be a use for our merciful thumbs!

VICTORIA ZOZIMUS, a ESSEDARIUS

COMBAT 6

ESSEDARIUS X RETIARIUS

The next couple was exactly the same as before, a retirarius, Robur from the illustrious interpreter Tiberius Anneus Otho against a essedarius, Polidaocertes, from M. Tullius Philippicae.

But if the previous combat was violent, this combat was much more! Seems that Robur has learned much with the death of Zenobia. As Polidaocertes attacked running the biga against him, he threw the web againts the horse! The animal entrained its legs on the web and felt, turning down and crashing the biga!

Polidaocertes, little bit dizzy, crawled on the ground trying to pick the spears spreaded on the fall. Robur pierced the trident against the thigh of the enemy. Polidaocertes cried loud on pain, but blindly turned the arm with a spear and wounded Robur on the shoulder.

>From the tribune, aedile Scribonius commented with his colleague:

- Hum... the retiarius could have killed him now... he wants to give our thumbs some use.

- At least one was hearing what I said! � said Faustus smiling.

The next movements was predictable. Polidaocertes in pain tried to stand up, while Robur just little pierced like the cooker moves the meat on a barbecue.

The essedarius finally felt on his on blood, claiming for the life.

- Exercise your mercy now, novo romans! � Cried the aedile.

The entire crowd gives thumbs down.

Robur gave a so strong strike that was difficult take out the trident from the dead chest.

VICTORIA ROMBUR, a RETIARIUS

COMBAT 7

ESSEDARIUS X MURMILLO

The eighth fight of the day was a essedarius, Ursus from P. Domitianus Artorius, against a murmillo, Vitulus, the last of Iulius Scaurus army.

Ursus came on the middle of the arena and left the chariot.

- I don�t need chariots! Just my spears are sufficient. I don�t want to seem unjust by having a biga and my courage to butcher this tiny murmillo. Let the biga out.

Vitullus ignored the boast. Instead, he preferred attacking.

The fight was body to body. Hard to narrate. The sword and the spear were very fast, attacking and defending, from the two sides, the blood was split on abundance. Two aggressive fighters desiring the eternal glory of the arena.

But finally there was a winner. Vitullus felt on the ground. Wounded as well, Ursus like a angry bear smited the brass point on his neck. The moment of the thumbs.

The public is very hard to satisfy, but not impossible.

THUMBS UP!

Vitullus blood dressed stand up and painly walked to the exit. Ursus left the arena under greetings

VICTORIA URSUS, a ESSEDARIUS

COMBAT 8

THRACIAN X ESSEDARIUS

The twilight was coming. The public on the chairs was tired. The carnage delights on the first moment, next started to be boring. The sands of the arena were already a blood red mud.

The final fight was between Maximinos, a Thracian (name of an Emperor!) sent on the arena by god-like Appius Arminius Claudianus, honor of Provincia Brasilia, apparitor of the Pax on the Provincial Temple of Concordia, and Carnifex Peritus, an essedarius sent by Quintus Salix Cantabricus, member of a gens that gives yearly so many good magistrates to the Res Publica.

The fight was hard; the two warriors have chosen the aggressive technique. The thracian sliced the flesh of the essedarius many times, and the charioter smited the thracian as well. Maximinus felt the spears of Carnifex, and Carnifex tasted the blade of the thracian. They bleed all body, from holes and rips.

But the gods has already chosen a winner. Thus Carnifex hurled his far-shadowing spear, and smote upon the circle of the shield of Maximinus, beneath the edge of the rim, where the bonze and iron ran thinnest round, and the bull-hide was thinnest thereon; and right through sped the essedarius ashen spear, and the shield cracked under it. But the spear didn�t stop, the point stopped just on Maximinos� bowels.

The thracian felt on the knees, bleeding a lot. The essedarius jumped from the biga, and the turned the enemy on the ground. He was starting to raise the hand asking for the public decision when Maximino�s eyes gazed immobile the sky and his life was gone.

VICTORIA CARNIFEX, a ESSEDARIUS

The night has fallen upon the Amphitheater. The public stands up and goes to the exit, talking a lot about the results, the deploring cowardice and greeting the courage.

Vale bene in pacem deorum,

L. Arminius Faustus

Senior Plebeian Aedile

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:26:30 -0000

Salvete C. Sulla et omnes,

Once order is restored there should be severe penalties for anyone
trying to ship out or buy these artifacts. Word gets around quickly
when examples are made of these people.

Eg: Last year a Canadian tourist in Mexico picked up a few small
pieces of tile that had been lying on the ground, obviously weathered
off one of the Pre- Columbian structures. He tried taking them for a
souvineer but he was caught one way or another. He lingered in jail
for about 6 months there before our Consulate got wind of the
situation. They finally released him after his family paid a fine of
3500.00 US and they gave him the boot saying never to return. Try and
imagine what life would have been like for him had the objects had
been a few valuable statues! This incident hit many newspapers across
Canada. Now we know and I would avoid handling an ancient Mexican
artifact as much as I would a kilo of cocaine!

Hopefully similar laws and penalties will be implemented in Iraq when
order is restored. In my opinion the US and Britain could have done
little in stopping the looting of the Museum. As Brutis Porticus
said, the soldiers are still occupied in combat with pockets of
resistance.Also they are on very thin ice politically at the moment
in the eyes of the world and the onus is on them to continually prove
that the invasion was for the liberation. If they were to have fired
into a crowd of looters as they would in their own country after a
natural disaster the world press and opinion would have had a field
day denouncing their intentions.

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> According to CNN, at least a report I heard this morning, some of
the looters are delivering the items they looted to their local
Mosque.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: G.Porticus Brutis
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 3:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
>
been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Chariot Races First Round!
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:32:18 +0200

Salvete omnes,

Way to go Albata! Four chariots in the semis!! Although of course I must admit that luck plays a vital role in these games, it seems that the Reds, despite of the amount of muscle they've tried to flex, have been given a good thrashing. And what is left of Praesina's former glory? Alas, not much, so it seems.

Anyhow, I'm really pleased to see Albata advance so well this year. Let's hope this trend continues.

Valete bene!
M. Octavius Solaris
DF Albata

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:11:15 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
> occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
> punished as due.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus

Salve,

You are correct. According to the 1954 Hague Convention Chapter 1,
Article 4, the failure to protect cultural treasures is a war
crime. However there is a catch.

The catch is that the 1954 Hague Convention only applies to those
nations who have ratified it and its subsequent protocols. Neither
Great Britain nor the United States are ratifiers to the 1954 Hague
Convention ( http://www.icomos.org/hague/hague.rat.html ) thusly its
provisions can not be enforced upon either nation.

However Australia is a ratifying nation of the 1954 Hague Convention
so Australian military personnel could in theory be charged under
that Conventions' articles.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Mock Elections
From:	politicog <politicog@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:42:01 -0700 (PDT)

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> > I Would like to make a modest proposal. Before we
> enact any of these plans into law we should hold a
> mock election with historic Romans as the canidates.
> If there are any problems with the plan that our
> magistrates decide to put before the citizens we can
> find them during the mock elections in May or June
> instead of discovering them during the real
> elections
> at the end of the year.
>
> I Would like to see a ballot with at least two
> historic Romans for each open seat that we will vote
> on. That will give the voting a good test and
> hopefully keep us from having to discuss needed
> elections reforms again this time next year.
>

This sounds like a reasonable proposal to me. I
hope the magistrates will act on it and submit it to
the appropriate comitia if it requires their approval.

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:18:12 -0700

Ave Q. Lanius,
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:26 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq

Salvete C. Sulla et omnes,

Once order is restored there should be severe penalties for anyone
trying to ship out or buy these artifacts. Word gets around quickly
when examples are made of these people.

Sulla: I agree entirely. Very severe penalites should be imposed once a reasonable amount of order is restored in Baghdad. At this point I wonder how much of the city we actually do control. The last I heard was about 60-70%.
Eg: Last year a Canadian tourist in Mexico picked up a few small
pieces of tile that had been lying on the ground, obviously weathered
off one of the Pre- Columbian structures. He tried taking them for a
souvineer but he was caught one way or another. He lingered in jail
for about 6 months there before our Consulate got wind of the
situation. They finally released him after his family paid a fine of
3500.00 US and they gave him the boot saying never to return. Try and
imagine what life would have been like for him had the objects had
been a few valuable statues! This incident hit many newspapers across
Canada. Now we know and I would avoid handling an ancient Mexican
artifact as much as I would a kilo of cocaine!

Sulla: Very interesting, though I am not surprised. Clearly the market of antiquities is a very risky venture and one that, when found out, carries stiff penalities. I hope that the same penalties will apply to those Iraqi's who attempt to sell what they have looted.
Hopefully similar laws and penalties will be implemented in Iraq when
order is restored. In my opinion the US and Britain could have done
little in stopping the looting of the Museum. As Brutis Porticus
said, the soldiers are still occupied in combat with pockets of
resistance.

Sulla: I agree, there must be a judgement call in these situations...protecting themselves, trying to protect the civilians, preventing the looting of the hospital and other medical facilities probably carried more weight than a museum, but as more order is imposed our military can then protect other buildings and national treasures.

Also they are on very thin ice politically at the moment
in the eyes of the world and the onus is on them to continually prove
that the invasion was for the liberation.

Sulla: Yep, exactly.

If they were to have fired
into a crowd of looters as they would in their own country after a
natural disaster the world press and opinion would have had a field
day denouncing their intentions.

Sulla: I agree, it was a lose/lose situation no matter what they did in this respect.
Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> According to CNN, at least a report I heard this morning, some of
the looters are delivering the items they looted to their local
Mosque.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: G.Porticus Brutis
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 3:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
>
been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	ames0826@cs.com
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:31:37 -0400

Try blackmarket.com.

Seriously, though, I'd be willling to bet that some of the treasures looted from the museum are, even as we speak, being offered clandestinely to some wealthy connesseurs (sp?) by people who are organized for this kind of covert and illegal activity. And that's the best definition of "black market" that I can come up with.

"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Just a simple question
>
>Do you think we can find the items on that
>black-market, or do we have to be there.
>By the way where is this black-market,is there a
>black-market on line or is it off-line.....and where
>is this line???nbsp;
>I'm still looking all over the place for this line.
>I was on a line yesterday,but it didn't do anything.
>
>So if we try to find the black-market but I'm color
>blind, so what if I run into the market but it's
>really red, then what happens.
>Just a simple question.
>
>Tiberius Porticus Rex
>The Greater
>
>
>--- ames0826@cs.com wrote:
>gt; I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent
>gt; looting at the national Museum of Iraq, which
>gt; appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
>gt; disasters of its type in history.nbsp; The following
>gt; points apply:
>gt;
>gt; *nbsp; Some of the looting was certainly done by
>gt; desperate people looking for objects to sell for
>gt; food, etc.nbsp; And some of it was certainly done by
>gt; people with underworld connections hoping to sell
>gt; the works on the black market.
>gt;
>gt; *nbsp; While it is unfortunate that the museum was not
>gt; properly guarded at the time, as a former military
>gt; man I can somewhat imagine the turmoil in Baghdad at
>gt; the time, the limited resources available to deal
>gt; with it, and the simple probability that protection
>gt; for the museum simply quot;fell through the cracks.quot;nbsp; It
>gt; is spilled milk that no recriminations can unspill.
>gt;
>gt; *nbsp; However, a museum is a vital part of any
>gt; culture's collective memory, particularly a culture
>gt; as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq.nbsp; This destruction
>gt; therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
>gt;
>gt; *nbsp; Since our military is currently responsible for
>gt; what happens in Bachdad, we have a certain moral
>gt; obligation to minimize the damage.nbsp; Two ways we can
>gt; do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export
>gt; of museum artifacts, and by making the recognition
>gt; and confiscation of such artifacts a priority.nbsp; We
>gt; did much the same thing at the close of World War
>gt; Two, whan looted art objects were found all over
>gt; Germany.
>gt;
>
>
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] CEREALIA CULTURAL CONTRIBUTION - THE TEMPLE OF CERES ON THE AVENTINE
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:51:19 -0300 (ART)

CERES LIBER LIBERAQUE, AEDES
A temple on the slope of the Aventine hill, near the west end of the circus Maximus. According to tradition there was a famine in Rome in 496 B.C., and the dictator L. Postumius, after consulting the Sibylline books, vowed a temple to Demeter, Dionysus, and Kore if they would bring abundance again to the city. The temple was built, and dedicated in 493 B.C. by the consul Sp. Cassius (Dionys. vi. 17, 94) to Ceres, Liber, and Libera, with whom the Greek deities were identified. Beloch (Rom. Gesch. 329) assigns it to the fourth century B.C.It was araeostyle, with columns of the Tuscan order, and the fastigium [p. 110] was decorated with statues of gilded bronze or terracotta of Etruscan workmanship (Vitr. iii. 3. 5). The walls of the cella were decorated with frescoes and reliefs by two Greek artists, Gorgasus and Damophilus,1 and there was a Greek inscription stating how much had been done by each (Plin. NH xxxv. 154; see Merlin 153-155). This temple, called by Cicero (Verr. iv. 108) pulcherrimum et Magnificentissimum, was enriched by many works of art, such as golden bowls and statues, from the fines levied by plebeian magistrates (Liv. x. 23. 13; xxvii. 6. 19, 36. 9; xxxiii. 25. 3). It contained a bronze statue of Ceres, said to have been the first made in Rome, which was paid for out of the confiscated property of Sp. Cassius (Liv. ii. 41. 10; Plin. NH xxxiv. 15); and a painting of Bacchus (and Ariadne ?) that was brought from Corinth by Mummius (Plin. NH xxxv. 24, 99; Strabo viii. 381; cf. Merlin 162). Twice it was struck by lightning (Liv. xxviii. 11. 4; App. BC i. 78), and twice it is mentioned in connection with prodigies (Liv. xl. 2. 2; xli. 28. 2). It was burned down in 31 B.C., restored by Augustus, and dedicated by Tiberius in 17 A.D. (Cass. Dio 1. 10; Tac. Ann. ii. 49; Merlin, 366- 367; CIL vi. 9969), and was standing in the fourth century (Not. Reg. XI). The site of the temple was near the west end of the circus on the Aventine side, but how far up the slope is not certain-perhaps near the junction of the modern Vicolo di S. Sabina and Via S. Maria in Cosmedin (Dionys. vi. 94; Liv. xl. 2. 1; DAP 2. vi. 238-239; Merlin 93-95, and literature cited there; BC 1914, 115), but no traces of it have been found.The worship of Ceres was essentially plebeian, and the political importance of this temple was very great. It was the headquarters of the plebeian aediles, the repository of their archives, and the treasury in which was placed the property of those who had been found guilty of assaulting plebeian magistrates (Dionys. vi. 89; x. 42 ; Liv. iii. 55. 7). Copies of senatus consulta were also deposited here after 449 B.C. (Liv. iii. 55. 13; Mommsen, Staatsr. ii. 476-477, 490). The temple possessed the right of asylum (Varr. ap. Non. 44: asylum Cereris), and was a centre of distribution of food to the poor. It was regularly called aedes, but delubrum once by Pliny (NH xxxv. 24), and in Greek D�m�treion (Strabo viii. 381), D�m�trion (Cass. Dio 1. 10), and D�m�tros hieron (App. BC i. 78). In ordinary usage the official title was abbreviated to aedes Cereris (see Merlin, passim; HJ 115-117; RE iii. 1974-1975; xiii. 70-73; Gilb. ii. 242-250). For a sacerdos Cereris publica p.r.q. (i.e. a slave), see CIL i�. 974=vi. 2182 =ILS 3347 (cf. vi. 2181 =32443=ILS 3343). Samuel Ball Platner, Thomas Ashby, A Topographical Dictionary of Ancient Rome
Vale bene in pacem deorum,L. Arminius FaustusPlebeian Aedile

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	Octavius Giraldo-Vay <octavius@octavius-jewelrydesign.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:20:50 -0700

Salvete omnes

I wonder if the Christian religious beliefs of the new "barbarian
invader" contributed to the lack of protection of the cultural
treasures of humankind stored in the museums of the country being
invaded?...after all isn't the vast majority of the art in the museums
depictions of opposing religions to that of the invader, perhaps
unworthy of protection?. It seems the only protection was given to the
oil resources.

Valete omnes. Cum aestimatio. Lucius Calpurnius Piso
On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 07:19 AM, Michel Loos wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
> occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
> punished as due.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> > I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the
> national Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the
> worst disasters of its type in history.� The following points apply:
> >
> > *� Some of the looting was certainly done by desperate people
> looking for objects to sell for food, etc.� And some of it was
> certainly done by people with underworld connections hoping to sell
> the works on the black market.
> >
> > *� While it is unfortunate that the museum was not properly guarded
> at the time, as a former military man I can somewhat imagine the
> turmoil in Baghdad at the time, the limited resources available to
> deal with it, and the simple probability that protection for the
> museum simply "fell through the cracks."� It is spilled milk that no
> recriminations can unspill.
> >
> > *� However, a museum is a vital part of any culture's collective
> memory, particularly a culture as ancient as Mesopotamia/Iraq.� This
> destruction therefore qualifies as a form of murder, or suicide.
> >
> > *� Since our military is currently responsible for what happens in
> Bachdad, we have a certain moral obligation to minimize the damage.�
> Two ways we can do this are by closing Iraq's borders to the export of
> museum artifacts, and by making the recognition and confiscation of
> such artifacts a priority.� We did much the same thing at the close of
> World War Two, whan looted art objects were found all over Germany.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >�
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vergil@starpower.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:20:31 -0400

Salvete, Michel Loos et Omnibus SPD

Please, Michel, do provide us with the relevant law ('in fact' is not really
a very useful source citation). Also, exactly when does an "occupying
forces" become so? Would this happen when there is a formal surrender? Or
when the aren't opposing forces shooting at our forces? Or when the
"occupying forces" have raised their nations flag, something the United
States hasn't done aside from an enthusiastic young Marine who PROMPTLY
removed the US flag and replaced it with the Iraqi flag.

Michel, You've about reached the bottom in your sources of criticism of the
US. Would you care to speculate on who the looters might be?
Perhaps you ought to turn your efforts to question the French and their
duplicitous actions in regard to their association with Saddam and his
'regime', not to mention the Russians, who were in country training Saddam's
forces in advanced technology during early conflict all in direct opposition
to UN sanctions. So much for their argument about the 'importance of the
UN'.

Valete, Lucius Equitius
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
Date: 14 Apr 2003 11:19:16 -0300
From: Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq

Salvete,

in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
punished as due.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus

On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the national
Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst disasters
of its type in history.
<SNIP>
We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted art
objects were found all over Germany.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Chariot Races First Round!
From:	politicog <politicog@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:36:52 -0700 (PDT)

--- curiobritannicus
<Marcusaemiliusscaurus@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> The first round is over, quirites! We have nine
> qualifiers:
> Orionis Draco, (Veneta)
> B.S.D. Liber, (Albata)
> Fulminatora, (Russata)
> Damnator, (Albata)
> Velox, (Russata)
> Polycrates, (Praesina)
> Alea Iacta Est, (Albata)
> Pugio, (Praesina)
> Imperator Invictus. (Albata)
>
> Of these, there are 4 Albata, 2 Russata, 2 Praesina,
> and 1 Veneta.
> On the 15th, these nine drivers will race to find
> the four
> finalists! Don't miss it!
>
>
>

Congratulations to all the other finalists in the
races, especially to my Praesina teammate Marcus
Minucius Audens and his driver Pugio. I want to
express my appeciation to the narrator as well (sorry
I don't know what Roman name you use).
Also, please note that my Roman name has been
officially changed by the censors. I am no longer
Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Constantius. I am now called
Lucius Quintius Constantius. My gens is now Quintia,
instead of of Aenea Apollonia.
I regret that I did not notify the Aediles of the
name of my chariot. I have decided to call it
"Confluat".

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Election Procedures
From:	"Roger" <politicog@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:14:16 -0000

I see that the censors have now officially approved of my change of
gens and name. But I don't have a button to get my voter code yet. :(

How long is it until the next run-off for Tribune of the Plebs?
Can I expect to be able to access my voter code before that time?

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni
Nova Roman


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:44:26 -0500

Ave Loos et al.

This anti-American rhetoric does get boring. I wonder how Mr. Loos would
have fared under Saddam's regime? A giant industrial plastic shredding
machine comes to mind.

How long must we suffer your pathetic grasping at anti-American straws?
America is the new power now. All the other countries represented in Nova
Roma had an empire at some point and time, and they participated in nothing
short of mass rape, plunder, and genocide.

At the end of WWII, we could have owned this planet, but we didn't. We gave
it back. We picked our enemies and friends alike off the ground and built
them back up. Some of them are our most fiercest competitors now. We're not
perfect, but we're dang close. And compared to how other modern countries
have acted in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries, we're clearly morally
superior. So, if citizens of a country we are liberating want to,
essentially, steal from themselves, I say have a great time.

Gaius Basilicatus Agricola

Salvete, Michel Loos et Omnibus SPD

Please, Michel, do provide us with the relevant law ('in fact' is not
really
a very useful source citation). Also, exactly when does an "occupying
forces" become so? Would this happen when there is a formal surrender? Or
when the aren't opposing forces shooting at our forces? Or when the
"occupying forces" have raised their nations flag, something the United
States hasn't done aside from an enthusiastic young Marine who PROMPTLY
removed the US flag and replaced it with the Iraqi flag.

Michel, You've about reached the bottom in your sources of criticism of
the
US. Would you care to speculate on who the looters might be?
Perhaps you ought to turn your efforts to question the French and their
duplicitous actions in regard to their association with Saddam and his
'regime', not to mention the Russians, who were in country training
Saddam's
forces in advanced technology during early conflict all in direct
opposition
to UN sanctions. So much for their argument about the 'importance of the
UN'.

Valete, Lucius Equitius
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
Date: 14 Apr 2003 11:19:16 -0300
From: Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq

Salvete,

in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
punished as due.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus

On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the national
Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
disasters
of its type in history.
<SNIP>
We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted art
objects were found all over Germany.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Officers of the Sodalitas Latinitas
From:	"Roger" <politicog@yahoo.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:07:55 -0000

[Note: I posted the original of this to the Latinitas group. I
decided to post it here also, if anyone here has any insight into the
answers to these questions. I would especially like the Senate to be
aware of the situation if the officers of the Sodalitas are not
functioning. If that is the case, I would be willing to assist in
reorganizing the leadership in any way that I may be of assistance.]

Three questions:

1. Is the emended lex fundamentalis contained in message 155,
posted on May 13, 2000 the organizing document for this Sodalis?

2. Have the tresviri passed any bylaws or procedures for the
accession of new members into the Sodalitas?

3. Are there currently any tresviri or are all the current
offices of the tresviri vacant?

I would appreciate answers to these questions and have decided to
transmit these questions to the Senate as well.

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Canada Orientalis Taxes
From:	"a_cato2002" <a.cato@sympatico.ca>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:45:28 -0000

Salvete: The below message is for citizens of Canada Orientalis
only, in case some only subscribe to the main list. My apologies to
everyone else.

Bene valete, A. T. Cato

Slavete Omnes: It is getting somewhat late in the tax season for
Nova Roma, and I apologize for not getting to this sooner.
However, I would like to ask that Our provincial citizens
please attend to paying the fees according to the schedule set out
below by our Consul, T. Labienus Fortunatus.
Our dues for the year come to $14.00 Canadian, or $9.44 U.S.
This is a remarkably low membership fee, (taxation) in
comparison to most clubs, oraganizations, or societys.
With money that Nova Roma earns, we have done such things as
sponser a Classics student who entered national competition in the
U.S., set up a free online Academy to study Nova Roma, Latin etc.,
help pay for gatherings and printed material for distribution etc.
We sent money to a Roman archeological site in Britain that was
starved for funds as a result of cutbacks in the English governments
support of archealogical digs. We will be supporting further
archeological sites in the future, and one that looks promising for
support from Nova Roma is restoration work at the Temple of Magna
Mater on the Palatine Hill in Rome itself. And 50% of the dues
collected is earmarked for use in the Province that it was collected
in.
Our membership fees are doing some good work. And also, those
who keep up their tax payments ensure that their ability to vote in
our election is not compromised.
So please, you can either send certified cheques or money
orders to me, or to Nova Roma itself. Either way....
Make sure that you include your full Nova Roma name to enure
that you receive credit for paying.

Send payment to Nova Roma at...

Nova Roma
P.O. Box 1897
Wells, ME 04090
U.S.A.

Or send it to me at.... 67 Woodland Ave.
St. Catharines,
Ontario
L2R 5A4

Remember to include you full Nova Roman name. If this
could be taken care of this week, then I owe you all my thanks.

Bene valete, Appius Tulliu Cato
Senator
Propraetor, Provincia Canada
Orientalis
Paterfamilias, Gens Tullia

Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 15:22:29 -0600
From: Fortunatus <labienus@novaroma.org>
Subject: Edictum: Taxation

T Labienus Fortunatus Consul Quiritibus SPD

Pursuant to the senatusconsultum passed in November of last year, I
hereby establish the tax rates for MMDCCLVI according to the table
at
the end of this edictum.

I also request each provincial governor to copy this announcement to
their provincial lists, and each of Nova Roma's official Interpretes
to
translate this message into the language(s) for which they are
responsible.

Cives remitting their taxes in US dollars may send a check, money
order,
or equivalent form of payment made out to Nova Roma directly to:

Nova Roma
PO Box 1897
Wells, ME 04090

Other cives will need to purchase an international money order in US
dollars for the full amount of their taxes and send it to the
address
above. Note that individual checks in local currencies sent
directly to
the Nova Roma address will likely cost more to cash than they are
worth.

Hopefully, some provincial governors will choose to arrange a
central
point in their provinciae to which cives may remit their taxes so
that
the provincia will only need to make a single payment to the central
treasury. Cives are encouraged to contact their provincial
governor, if
any, to find out whether their province will be doing this.

Cives in Europe whose provincial governor has chosen not to act as a
collection point may contact my quaestor, Cn Octavius Noricus
(cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at), in order to arrange payment if they
wish.

All cives capable of doing so may pay their taxes through the PayPal
service. There is a link on the Nova Roma Web site's main page for
this. It is the purple image alternately displaying "DONO DARE" and
"give to Nova Roma via PayPal" located beneath the main menu.

All cives should be sure to include the full Roman name of all cives
they are paying for with their remittance! PayPal provides a
comments
field when you use it, and you can provide the name(s) there. This
will
ensure that each civis who pays taxes will be properly enrolled in
the
Assidui.

Questions may be adressed to myself (labienus@novaroma.org) or my
quaestor, Cn Octavius (cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at). If you post
your
question to the main list, please Cc my address to ensure that I see
the
message.

The tax deadline is the last day of Aprilis. Taxes may be remitted
after that date, with a penalty of an extra 50%. Exempli gratia, a
civis who owes $12 would need to pay $18 after the deadline.

In the following table, countries within existing provinciae are
listed
first in order of provincia, followed by countries without
provinciae in
alphabetical order.

Tax Amount in Tax Amount
Country_________Provincia____________Local Currency____in USD
United States America Austrocc. 12.00 USD 12.00
United States America Austror. 12.00 USD 12.00
United States America Boreocc. 12.00 USD 12.00
United States America Mediocc. Sup. 12.00 USD 12.00
Argentina Argentina 12.00 ARS 3.81
Israel Asia Occidentalis 35.00 ILS 7.28
Turkey Asia Occidentalis 3700000.00 TRL 2.31
Japan Asia Orientalis 1100.00 JPY 9.31
Korea Asia Orientalis 7060.00 KRW 5.95
Malaysia Asia Orientalis 11.00 MYR 2.90
Philippines Asia Orientalis 72.00 PHP 1.32
Singapore Asia Orientalis 14.00 SGD 8.05
Australia Australia 14.00 AUD 8.48
Czech Republic Bohemia 140.00 CZK 4.75
Brazil Brasilia 9.00 BRL 2.51
United Kingdom Britannia 5.00 GBP 7.87
United States California 12.00 USD 12.00
Canada Canada Occidentalis 14.00 CAD 9.44
Canada Canada Orientalis 14.00 CAD 9.44
Belgium Gallia 8.00 EUR 8.62
France Gallia 8.00 EUR 8.62
Netherlands Gallia 8.00 EUR 8.62
Austria Germania 8.50 EUR 9.16
Germany Germania 8.50 EUR 9.16
Switzerland Germania 12.50 CHF 9.22
Spain Hispania 6.00 EUR 6.46
Italy Italia 7.50 EUR 8.08
United States Lacus Magni 12.00 USD 12.00
Portugal Lusitania 5.50 EUR 5.93
United States Mediatlantica 12.00 USD 12.00
Mexico Mexico 35.00 MXN 3.17
United States Nova Britannia 12.00 USD 12.00
Hungary Pannonia 920.00 HUF 4.08
Slovakia Pannonia 150.00 SKK 3.87
Russia Sarmatia 90.00 RUR 2.85
Ukraine Sarmatia 7.50 UAH 1.41
Denmark Thule 65.00 DKK 9.43
Finland Thule 8.00 EUR 8.62
Iceland Thule 630.00 ISK 8.12
Norway Thule 70.00 NOK 9.77
Sweden Thule 70.00 SEK 8.26
Poland Venedia 12.00 PLN 3.07

Albania 180.00 ALL 1.40
Andorra 6.00 EUR 6.46
Armenia 630.00 AMD 1.17
Bosnia-Herzegovina 1.00 BAM 0.55
Bulgaria 4.00 BGL 2.21
Chile 2500.00 CLP 3.32
China 14.00 CNY 1.69
Colombia 4800.00 COP 1.62
Costa Rica 970.00 CRC 2.52
Croatia 23.50 HRK 3.32
Greece 5.50 EUR 5.92
Honduras 14.00 HNL 0.82
Ireland 8.50 EUR 9.16
Macedonia 95.00 MKD 1.70
Morocco 15.00 MAD 1.51
New Zealand 12.00 NZD 6.70
Nicaragua 11.50 NIO 0.78
Nigeria 32.00 NGN 0.25
Romania 75000.00 ROL 2.27
South Africa 27.00 ZAR 3.32
Uruguay 44.00 UYU 1.56
Venezuela 3900.00 VEB 2.44
Vietnam 10798.20 VND 0.70
Yugoslavia 50.00 YUM 0.87

Valete


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:37:53 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregines, greetings.

> Computer
> simulations work great in cases where there are
> physical laws that
> are not mutable. Humans on the other hand are
> unpredictable and the
> myraid of premutations to be considered makes for
> extreme difficulty
> to write a program to consider all possibilities.

I can appreciate this line of thinking, and I agree.
However, I should like to point that in this case the
unpredictability of human action is not very relevant.
In an elections, there are a limited number of
variables; in fact, for any given election there are,
apart from the actual procedure by which the results
are calculated, only three. One is number of people
who vote; the second is the number of candidates; the
third is the order of each voter's preference for each
candidate.

To put it another way round, for every human being
there are three questions: does he stand; does he
vote; how does he vote?

The first two can only be answered yes or no. A
computer can model either. There's nothing a human
being can do that wouldn't be either voting or not
voting; either running or not running. No room for
unpredictable behaviour there.

Then, each person who does vote will have a limited
number of ways in which they can vote. The precise
options will vary depending on the number of
candidates and how many he or she is allowed to vote
for. But again, there's nothing that he or she can do
which is completely unexpected. Voting for none of
them can be modelled; voting for all can be modelled,
voting for some and not others can be modelled.

A ballot-paper can only be filled out so many ways:
the number of possible combinations can be calculated.
If you have candidate A and candidate B you can only
choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
irrational, unmodellable behaviour.

So while I agree with your concern in general, I
cannot imagine anything that even the most irrational
person could do in an election other than vote or not
vote, stand or not stand, and fill in the ballot paper
in one or another of the ways which is possible. If I
have missed any opportunity for human unpredictability
to get in, I urge anyone who has spotted it to say so
before I make myself look even more absurd than I
already will!

Cordus

=====

www.strategikon.org

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:45:35 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus Lucio Equitio Cincinnato Auguri salutem dicit.

Salve, Luci Equiti Augur.

The National Museum of Iraq is located on the border between the
relatively upscale Karkh neighborhood and the slums of Saddam City.
There is no question that the overwhelming majority of the looters
were impoverished Shi'is from Saddam City (although there is some
evidence now appearing that professionals in the employ of foreign art
collectors may have had a role in some of the thefts and took care to
destroy museum records to impede any future legal action taken against
recipients of stolen antiquities on the black market). Some of the
sheer nihilistic destruction, e.g., the smashing of pottery shards
used for typological dating in the museum workshops and the defacing
of monumental sculptures too large and heavy to be removed easily from
the building, suggests that some were simply striking out at anything
that might have been a symbol of the Ba'athist regime. After all,
Iraq's internal propaganda has for years portrayed Saddam as the
embodiment of Mesopotamia's former glory in Sargon I, Hammurabi,
Nebuchadnezzar, etc. (that units of the Republican Guard bore those
names is not accidental).

The sense in which the United States bears responsibility is the fact
that the U.S. government assured American and international scholars,
whose expertise it sought to map sites of archaeological and cultural
importance before the war, that the National Museum of Iraq would be
protected against the looting which experts predicted would follow the
fall of Saddam and his government. Specifically, I know for a fact
(by virtue of knowing some of scholars involved) that Donald Rumsfeld
gave his personal assurance to a delegation of American scholars that
guards would be dispatched to the National Museum of Iraq the moment
coalition forces reached Baghdad. U.S. forces were in the vicinity of
the museum as early as last Monday (we know this from journalists who
were embedded with those forces). The museum was looted on Wednesday
and Thursday.

The U.S. is not a signatory to the 1954 Hague Convention and,
therefore, is not obligated to observe it. However, I do not think it
unreasonable to expect the responsible cabinet officer, speaking on
behalf of the U.S. government, to keep his word given to American
citizens that the museum would be protected. From the nonchalant
response of Rumsfeld to news of the looting I conclude that he is a
man without honour whose conduct has brought disgrace on the nation
whose armed forces he directs. As a Vietnam veteran I am personally
acquainted with officials of my government lying to the American
people (e.g., at a time when the government was assuring Americans and
the rest of the world that no U.S. troops were in Laos, I knew damned
well that we had troops in Laos because I helped draft their
operations orders in country). I had hoped things had changed, but
Secretary Rumsfeld has proven me wrong.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus