Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:41:53 -0400

Salve Gaius Basilicatus Agricola et al

WELL SAID!


Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


----- Original Message -----
From: "jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of
Iraq


> Ave Loos et al.
>
> This anti-American rhetoric does get boring. I wonder how Mr. Loos would
> have fared under Saddam's regime? A giant industrial plastic shredding
> machine comes to mind.
>
> How long must we suffer your pathetic grasping at anti-American straws?
> America is the new power now. All the other countries represented in Nova
> Roma had an empire at some point and time, and they participated in
nothing
> short of mass rape, plunder, and genocide.
>
> At the end of WWII, we could have owned this planet, but we didn't. We
gave
> it back. We picked our enemies and friends alike off the ground and built
> them back up. Some of them are our most fiercest competitors now. We're
not
> perfect, but we're dang close. And compared to how other modern countries
> have acted in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries, we're clearly morally
> superior. So, if citizens of a country we are liberating want to,
> essentially, steal from themselves, I say have a great time.
>
>
> Gaius Basilicatus Agricola
>
>
> Salvete, Michel Loos et Omnibus SPD
>
> Please, Michel, do provide us with the relevant law ('in fact' is not
> really
> a very useful source citation). Also, exactly when does an "occupying
> forces" become so? Would this happen when there is a formal surrender?
Or
> when the aren't opposing forces shooting at our forces? Or when the
> "occupying forces" have raised their nations flag, something the United
> States hasn't done aside from an enthusiastic young Marine who PROMPTLY
> removed the US flag and replaced it with the Iraqi flag.
>
> Michel, You've about reached the bottom in your sources of criticism of
> the
> US. Would you care to speculate on who the looters might be?
> Perhaps you ought to turn your efforts to question the French and their
> duplicitous actions in regard to their association with Saddam and his
> 'regime', not to mention the Russians, who were in country training
> Saddam's
> forces in advanced technology during early conflict all in direct
> opposition
> to UN sanctions. So much for their argument about the 'importance of the
> UN'.
>
> Valete, Lucius Equitius
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: 14 Apr 2003 11:19:16 -0300
> From: Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
> Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
> Salvete,
>
> in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
> occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
> punished as due.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> > I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the
national
> Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst
> disasters
> of its type in history.
> <SNIP>
> We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted
art
> objects were found all over Germany.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	14 Apr 2003 21:54:42 -0300

Em Seg, 2003-04-14 às 15:20, Lucius Equitius escreveu:
> Salvete, Michel Loos et Omnibus SPD
>
> Please, Michel, do provide us with the relevant law ('in fact' is not really
> a very useful source citation). Also, exactly when does an "occupying
> forces" become so? Would this happen when there is a formal surrender? Or
> when the aren't opposing forces shooting at our forces? Or when the
> "occupying forces" have raised their nations flag, something the United
> States hasn't done aside from an enthusiastic young Marine who PROMPTLY
> removed the US flag and replaced it with the Iraqi flag.
>

The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.

Manius Villius Limitanus


> Michel, You've about reached the bottom in your sources of criticism of the
> US. Would you care to speculate on who the looters might be?
> Perhaps you ought to turn your efforts to question the French and their
> duplicitous actions in regard to their association with Saddam and his
> 'regime', not to mention the Russians, who were in country training Saddam's
> forces in advanced technology during early conflict all in direct opposition
> to UN sanctions. So much for their argument about the 'importance of the
> UN'.
>
> Valete, Lucius Equitius
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: 14 Apr 2003 11:19:16 -0300
> From: Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
> Subject: Re: Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
> Salvete,
>
> in fact the non-protection of cultural treasures of humankind by
> occupying forces is a war crime. I hope the responsibles will be
> punished as due.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 16:43, ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> > I am e-mailing you in connection with the recent looting at the national
> Museum of Iraq, which appears to be shaping up as one of the worst disasters
> of its type in history.
> <SNIP>
> We did much the same thing at the close of World War Two, whan looted art
> objects were found all over Germany.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:20:19 -0000

Salve Cordus,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A ballot-paper can only be filled out so many ways:
> the number of possible combinations can be calculated.
> If you have candidate A and candidate B you can only
> choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
> irrational, unmodellable behaviour.

You've never served as Rogator have you? <GRIN>

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:35:52 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:

> The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
> It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus

Salve,

Again, the United States and Great Britain are not signatuary nations
to the 1954 Hague Convention or its Protocols and are under no
International legal obligation to prevent the looting of the Iraqi
museum. It only legally obligates those nations who are signatuaries
to the Hague Convention of 1954. I posted earlier a list of the
signatuary nations which includes amongst others Iraq. So if there
was a war crime committed it was committed by the Iraqi looters in a
form of civil insurrection.

Does the United States and Britain have a moral obligation to do
something about the looting? Yes, they certainly do. The best thing
to do is to work to retrieve as much of the looted antiquities as
possible. Given that currently the troops of Great Britain and the
United States are equiped for combat, not crowd control (except in
China where tank treads are considered an acceptable form of crowd
control) any intervention by coalition forces would have made matters
even worse. Instead of bitching about the looting (I don't condone
the looting) there would be screams to high heaven about the
slaughter of Iraqi civilians. Antiquities can be recovered with time
and effort, human lives can not. The failure to inverene in the
looting was, in my opinion, the lesser of two evils.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] NR website
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:38:15 -0700

Ave,

Whats up with the NR website...No page is coming up. Can someone please fix this?

Vale,

Sulla

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Bienvenida Drusilla Quinta Galla
From:	"Daniel O. Villanueva" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:38:15 -0300

Salve optime novissima civis argentina Drusilla Quinta Galla .

Maximo Gaudio te accipio. Cum te nunc viginti sex civis argentini in provincia Argentina sumus. Vivant Novam Romam et provinciam Argentinam!.
Have my warmest welcome. With you now we are now 26 citizens in provincia Argentina. Long live Nova Roma and provincia Argentina!!.
Quiero darte la más cálida bienvenida!. Contigo ya somos 26 ciudadanos en la provincia Argentina. Vivan Nova Roma y la provincia Argentina.

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

Propraetor provinciæ Argentinæ
Sitio web provincia Argentina : http://argentina.novaroma.org
Provincial web site : http://argentina.novaroma.org
Lista provincial oficial : http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina
Official provincial website : http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museum
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	14 Apr 2003 23:56:27 -0300

Em Seg, 2003-04-14 às 22:35, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
>
> > The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
> > It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.
> >
> > Manius Villius Limitanus
>
> Salve,
>
> Again, the United States and Great Britain are not signatuary nations
> to the 1954 Hague Convention or its Protocols and are under no
> International legal obligation to prevent the looting of the Iraqi
> museum. It only legally obligates those nations who are signatuaries
> to the Hague Convention of 1954. I posted earlier a list of the
> signatuary nations which includes amongst others Iraq. So if there
> was a war crime committed it was committed by the Iraqi looters in a
> form of civil insurrection.
>

I read it, and agree legally. This was in answer to somebody that asked
for references.

Unfortunately, international laws are still nation based instead of
humankind based.

> Does the United States and Britain have a moral obligation to do
> something about the looting? Yes, they certainly do. The best thing
> to do is to work to retrieve as much of the looted antiquities as
> possible. Given that currently the troops of Great Britain and the
> United States are equiped for combat, not crowd control (except in
> China where tank treads are considered an acceptable form of crowd
> control) any intervention by coalition forces would have made matters
> even worse. Instead of bitching about the looting (I don't condone
> the looting) there would be screams to high heaven about the
> slaughter of Iraqi civilians. Antiquities can be recovered with time
> and effort, human lives can not. The failure to inverene in the
> looting was, in my opinion, the lesser of two evils.
>

Many antiquities were simply destroyed, no way to recover them.
The best way to protect cultural treasures is not to make war, specially
imperialistic and religious wars.

For the people that think that this is an anti-US position, check the
archives about the Budas destroyed by the Taleban.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus


--
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:22:55 -0400

Salve

The Iraqis may have been provided the opportunity to looting by the US
destruction of the regime ,but the Iraqis and only the Iraqis are
responsible for the looting. God willing some of the artifacts can be
recovered.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Loos" <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof
Iraq


> Em Seg, 2003-04-14 às 22:35, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
> >
> > > The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
> > > It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.
> > >
> > > Manius Villius Limitanus
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Again, the United States and Great Britain are not signatuary nations
> > to the 1954 Hague Convention or its Protocols and are under no
> > International legal obligation to prevent the looting of the Iraqi
> > museum. It only legally obligates those nations who are signatuaries
> > to the Hague Convention of 1954. I posted earlier a list of the
> > signatuary nations which includes amongst others Iraq. So if there
> > was a war crime committed it was committed by the Iraqi looters in a
> > form of civil insurrection.
> >
>
> I read it, and agree legally. This was in answer to somebody that asked
> for references.
>
> Unfortunately, international laws are still nation based instead of
> humankind based.
>
> > Does the United States and Britain have a moral obligation to do
> > something about the looting? Yes, they certainly do. The best thing
> > to do is to work to retrieve as much of the looted antiquities as
> > possible. Given that currently the troops of Great Britain and the
> > United States are equiped for combat, not crowd control (except in
> > China where tank treads are considered an acceptable form of crowd
> > control) any intervention by coalition forces would have made matters
> > even worse. Instead of bitching about the looting (I don't condone
> > the looting) there would be screams to high heaven about the
> > slaughter of Iraqi civilians. Antiquities can be recovered with time
> > and effort, human lives can not. The failure to inverene in the
> > looting was, in my opinion, the lesser of two evils.
> >
>
> Many antiquities were simply destroyed, no way to recover them.
> The best way to protect cultural treasures is not to make war, specially
> imperialistic and religious wars.
>
> For the people that think that this is an anti-US position, check the
> archives about the Budas destroyed by the Taleban.
>
> Vale
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> --
> Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma]
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:15:31 -0400

Salve

Has anybody read Cicero by Anthony Everitt I have read a couple of reviews and wanted to get a few more before I buy it.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Fortuna Favet Fortibus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR website
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:59:02 -0500 (CDT)

Denial of service attack by an angry spammer.

I'm trying to arrange for a router block now.

More details later.


> Ave,
>
> Whats up with the NR website...No page is coming up. Can someone please fix this?
>

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:00:11 -0700

Ave!
----- Original Message -----
From: Michel Loos
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq


Em Seg, 2003-04-14 às 22:35, quintuscassiuscalvus escreveu:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
>
> > The Hague Protocol 1954, especially chapter 4 Article 15.
> > It concerns all parties in War, including Civil Wars.
> >
> > Manius Villius Limitanus
>
> Salve,
>
> Again, the United States and Great Britain are not signatuary nations
> to the 1954 Hague Convention or its Protocols and are under no
> International legal obligation to prevent the looting of the Iraqi
> museum. It only legally obligates those nations who are signatuaries
> to the Hague Convention of 1954. I posted earlier a list of the
> signatuary nations which includes amongst others Iraq. So if there
> was a war crime committed it was committed by the Iraqi looters in a
> form of civil insurrection.
>

I read it, and agree legally. This was in answer to somebody that asked
for references.

Unfortunately, international laws are still nation based instead of
humankind based.
Sulla: All laws are nation-based when it comes to International law. There is no such thing as "Human Kind Law."


> Does the United States and Britain have a moral obligation to do
> something about the looting? Yes, they certainly do. The best thing
> to do is to work to retrieve as much of the looted antiquities as
> possible. Given that currently the troops of Great Britain and the
> United States are equiped for combat, not crowd control (except in
> China where tank treads are considered an acceptable form of crowd
> control) any intervention by coalition forces would have made matters
> even worse. Instead of bitching about the looting (I don't condone
> the looting) there would be screams to high heaven about the
> slaughter of Iraqi civilians. Antiquities can be recovered with time
> and effort, human lives can not. The failure to inverene in the
> looting was, in my opinion, the lesser of two evils.
>

Many antiquities were simply destroyed, no way to recover them.
The best way to protect cultural treasures is not to make war, specially
imperialistic and religious wars.

Sulla: Well this war does not fall into any of those categories.

For the people that think that this is an anti-US position, check the
archives about the Budas destroyed by the Taleban.

Sulla: Of course your comment was not an anti-US position because this war is not a war of imperalism nor a religious war. I

Vale,

Sulla

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:58:47 -0700

Ave Crys et Omnes,

Before I begin, I really wanted to hold off answering these questions as our current Consuls should be the individuals who respond. However, Crys and I spoke on AIM and she wanted me to publish my comments in this email. So, I have tried to answer these questions to the best of my ability. With that, any corrections will be appreciated:
----- Original Message -----
From: CAS
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 2:44 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Taxes


Salvete,

I am ready to pay my taxes, but have a couple of questions.

1. May I pay for more than one year at a time (say 2 or 3 years)?

Sulla: I do not see why not, however, if there is a change in the tax rate in the coming year(s) this might get very ugly. And, so far every year we have tweaked the tax law, so at this juncture I would advise not to pay multiple years in advance.

2. Will I be informed by email when time to pay comes again?

Sulla: Yes, the Consuls usually send a mass email to each citizen individually as well as an email message to the NR list and the annouce list as well.

3. Do I pay the same for my children as for myself (They are 4 and 6
years now)?

Sulla: You could. However, IMHO, minors really do not need to pay taxes because they do not get any tangible benefit (they cannot vote nor run and hold office). And it is primarily for these reasons we pay our taxes, this of course does not discount the motivation to pay for taxes simply to help NR achieve her goals.

4. Do I pay the same rate for the minors as for myself?

Sulla: There is no reduction for the taxes of minors. The only "reduction" would be where you lived, ie. adjusting for international currencies.

I only found out that taxes were owed by wandering onto the NR
website.

Sulla: Thats because you signed back up on the ML late, Crys! <g>

I also need to have my email address officially changed.

Sulla: Email the Censors your new info, they can update it. Or you can go to the Album Gentium, sign in and change your own info.

Hope this helps,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Pax,
SSAtia

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Taxes
From:	"CAS" <cas_the_author@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 05:05:46 -0000

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

- --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Ave Crys et Omnes,
>
> Before I begin, I really wanted to hold off answering these
questions as
> our current Consuls should be the individuals who respond.

SSA/Crys;

I should live so long LOL!!

> Sulla: I do not see why not, however, if there is a change in
the tax
> rate in the coming year(s) this might get very ugly. And, so far
every
> year we have tweaked the tax law, so at this juncture I would
advise not
> to pay multiple years in advance.
>

hehehehehehehe .. Shut up Atia <G>.


> 2. Will I be informed by email when time to pay comes again?
>
> Sulla: Yes, the Consuls usually send a mass email to each citizen
> individually as well as an email message to the NR list and the
annouce
> list as well.
>

Mental note : Read NR Digest occassionally ......

>
> Sulla: You could. However, IMHO, minors really do not need to
pay
> taxes because they do not get any tangible benefit (they cannot
vote nor
> run and hold office). And it is primarily for these reasons we pay
our
> taxes, this of course does not discount the motivation to pay for
taxes
> simply to help NR achieve her goals.
>

The Chicagoain in me replies; I could vote for the children <G> And
those
of you who have met my daughter know she'd love nothing more than to
be
Dictator For Life!!!!!!!


>
> I only found out that taxes were owed by wandering onto the NR
> website.
>
> Sulla: Thats because you signed back up on the ML late, Crys! <g>
>


You know what the ML does to my nerves, Sulla darling!! <VBG>


> I also need to have my email address officially changed.
>
> Sulla: Email the Censors your new info, they can update it. Or
you
> can go to the Album Gentium, sign in and change your own info.
>

If I change it int he album will it be changed everywhere? Like the
Priesthoods page???? Never mind. I'll do both and hope for the best.


Pax,
SSA

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:00:22 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit.

Salve, Tiberi Galeri.

I read it and found it very superficial, with more errors than I would
have expected from someone with a D.Phil. from Cambridge (but Everitt
was trained mainly as an art historian and has spent most of his
professional life as an "art consultant"). The breathless "Romans are
so much like we moderns are" tone of the book was probably dictated by
the marketing people (the picture of the _Flavian_ colosseum on the
dust cover surely was a marketer's touch), but Everitt sees Cicero as
the Roman analogue of a Tory parliamentarian, which obscures rather
more than it illuminates. T. Corey Brennan's review in the NYT (Aug.
25, 2002) is absolutely correrct to point out that there is nothing
new in Everitt's book, and rather more charitable about the rate of
error than I would have been. A much better introduction to Cicero
can be had in Neal Wood's _Cicero's Social and Political Thought_
(Berkeley 1988), although Wood, too, shortchanges Cicero's
philosophical work. The authoritative biography of Cicero in English
is Tom Mitchell's two volumes: _Cicero, the Ascending the Years_
(Yale, 1979) and _Cicero, the Senior Stateman_ (Yale, 1991). I
confess I wonder whether posterity would have thought so highly of
Cicero if it hadn't been for the accidental survival of so many of his
works and letters, often in unique manuscripts. The writings of most
of his contemporaries did not survive and, where they do, tend to
reflect rather less favourably on him than his own do.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:46:01 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Gaius Iulius,
I Don't think the survival of so many works by Cicero
was an accident. He was a master of the Latin
Language, and his style became the model for composing
Latin Texts and Latin Rhetoric. His works were
preserved not for thier content, but because his use
of the Latin Language was used as a teaching aid for
centuries.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Roman Citizen

--- Gregory Rose <gfr@intcon.net> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem
> dicit.
>
> Salve, Tiberi Galeri.
>
> I read it and found it very superficial, with more
> errors than I would
> have expected from someone with a D.Phil. from
> Cambridge (but Everitt
> was trained mainly as an art historian and has spent
> most of his
> professional life as an "art consultant"). The
> breathless "Romans are
> so much like we moderns are" tone of the book was
> probably dictated by
> the marketing people (the picture of the _Flavian_
> colosseum on the
> dust cover surely was a marketer's touch), but
> Everitt sees Cicero as
> the Roman analogue of a Tory parliamentarian, which
> obscures rather
> more than it illuminates. T. Corey Brennan's review
> in the NYT (Aug.
> 25, 2002) is absolutely correrct to point out that
> there is nothing
> new in Everitt's book, and rather more charitable
> about the rate of
> error than I would have been. A much better
> introduction to Cicero
> can be had in Neal Wood's _Cicero's Social and
> Political Thought_
> (Berkeley 1988), although Wood, too, shortchanges
> Cicero's
> philosophical work. The authoritative biography of
> Cicero in English
> is Tom Mitchell's two volumes: _Cicero, the
> Ascending the Years_
> (Yale, 1979) and _Cicero, the Senior Stateman_
> (Yale, 1991). I
> confess I wonder whether posterity would have
> thought so highly of
> Cicero if it hadn't been for the accidental survival
> of so many of his
> works and letters, often in unique manuscripts. The
> writings of most
> of his contemporaries did not survive and, where
> they do, tend to
> reflect rather less favourably on him than his own
> do.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>
>


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Chariot Races First Round!
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:52:41 -0000

Salvete Aediles,

congratulations for your Ludi Circenses, very exciting histories.
However I sended you the subscription of my chariot and I don't see
it in the results. Are there problems? Have you received my mail?

Chariot: Italica
driver: myself
factio: russata

Thank you again for your Ludi and good luck!

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "curiobritannicus"
<Marcusaemiliusscaurus@h...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> The first round of the chariot races are here! 21 Chariots are
> preparing to compete for the honour and glory of their factions
and
> patrons! However, not all the factions are out in equal force.
The
> Reds have massed many chariots, while the Blues, perhaps
disheartened
> with previous performances, have entered only two! Without
further
> ado.... The races!
>
> *******************Race 1************
>
> Name: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
> factio: Albata
> driver: Carolus Daemonicus
> chariot: B.S.D. Liber
> q/s tactic: hurry in last laps
> fin tactic: pass closely the spina
>
> Name: Titus Licinius Crassus
> Factio: Veneta
> Chariot: Orionis Draco
> Driver: Equus Magnus
> Quarters and Semi Strategy: (6)
> Finals Strategy: (2)
>
> Name: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Factio: Russata
> Chariot: Proeliator
> Driver: Gustavus Barbarus
> Tactics for quarters and semi-finals: 2) To pass the curves
closely
> the "spina" of the circus
> Tactics for the final: 6) To hurry in the straight lines
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Cethinus Aspis
> Chariot: Raptor Cruentus
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To lash the rivals
> Tactics for the final: To hurry in the last laps
>
> Quite a lineup for this first race, with one chariot from each
factio
> competing. We have the veteran Carolus Daemonus, driving the
chariot
> B.S.D. Liber for his patron Marcus Octavius Germanicus and for the
> honour of factio Albata. Titus Licinius Crassus has hired the
fiery
> Equus Magnus to drive his chariot Orionis Draco, for Veneta.
Another
> chariot that we've seen before, Proeliator, and its illustrous
patron
> Caeso Favius Quintilianus. And finally, driving for the greens of
> Praesina, Raptor Cruentus, bought by Iulius Scaurus. But wait!
The
> Aedile, Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, has shaken the white
> flag allowing the competitors to go! And so they do! Proeliator
> immediately takes the first corner as sharply as possible - By
Ceres,
> that was close! Proeliator's career nearly came to a halt there.
> However, the risk has paid off - Proeliator is slightly ahead of
the
> others. Just behind, Raptor Cruentus is catching up on the
> straights, while Orionis Draco and B.S.D. Liber are keeping a
steady
> pace behind. This pace is kept for another lap, but then Raptor
> Cruentus makes its move! Only a small distance behind Proeliator,
> Cethenus Aspinus uses his whip to lash the poor horses of
> Proeliator! Distracted, they rear up, and Cethinus Aspinus is too
> busy watching Proeliator to noticed he's about to crash!
Proeliator
> and Raptor Cruentis are hopelessly entangled, and B.S.D. Liber and
> Orionis Draco cruise smoothly past them. Not wanting to take any
> risks, they both take it fairly easy - no point taking risks with
> only two left in the race!
>
> 1st: Accident!
> 2nd: Accident!
> 3rd: Orionis Draco
> 4th B.S.D. Liber
>
> Qualify for the semi-finals: Orionis Draco and B.S.D. Liber.
>
> **************************Race 2*********************
>
> Name: Sextus Arminius Remus
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Remus
> Chariot: Fulminatora
> Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To support a constant pace
> Tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals
>
> Name: Tiberius Annaeus Otho
> Factio: Praesina
> Chariot: Basilea
> Driver: Septimus Raurax
> Tactics for the quarters/semis: 6 (Hurry in straight lines)
> Tactics for the finals: 1 (Hurry in the last laps)
>
> Name: Marcus Octavius Solaris
> Factio: Albata
> Driver: Damnator
> Tactics in Quarters/Semis: lash the rivals (4)
> Tactics in Final: push the rivals to the wall of the circus (5)
>
> Name:Gallus Minucius Iovinus
> Factio: Veneta
> Driver: Pontius Falx
> Chariot: Ossifragus (the sea eagle)
> Tactics for qual and semi: 2
> Tactics for final:6
>
> As the last of the wreckage from the previous race's crash is
cleared
> away, I can see that we once again have several veterans taking
the
> field. For Veneta, we have the renowned Ossifragus. For Albata,
we
> have Damnator, the chariot of Marcus Octavius Solaris. And
bearing
> the honour of Praesina is Basilea, the chariot of Tiberius Anneus
> Otho. Also racing is Fulminatora, hoping to carry a red into the
> semi-finals. The Aedile gives the signal for the race to start,
and
> quickly the chariots race off. As they do, a flag springs up from
> the audience, saying, "Come on Veneta! We've got the organiser on
> our side this time!" Yes, I can see Curio is definitely grinning
at
> that - he is indeed a supporter of Veneta. However, his face
turns
> to dismay as he gazes at the race track. Ossifragus has been
trying
> the same trick that Proeliator used to good advantage, but the
> chariot is skidding slightly, meaning that he's lost time on the
> others, rather than gained it. Meanwhile, Damnator has been
trying
> to catch up with the leading pair, Basilea, and Fulminatora, but
> they're both staying clear of the famous Damnator and his cruel
> whip. Basilea and Fulminatora are engaged in a deadly battle for
> 1st, but neither can gain an advantage. Meanwhile, Ossifragus
> finally gets the hang of passing close to the spina of the circus,
> and draws up beside Damnator. However, the infuriated Damnator
whips
> the horses drawing Ossifragus. They manage to stay on track, but
the
> shock causes them to fall behind once more. This done, Damnator
> concentrates on trying to catch up with the others. It looks like
> there is too little time, but then, catching everyone unawares,
> Basilea's wheel shakes a bit, causing the chariot to go awry, and
> then the wheel falls off completely! The enraged Praesina fans
> shout "Sabotage! Sabotaaaaaaaage!!" And indeed this is what it
looks
> like, since Basilea is a well-made chariot. But no one know which
of
> the three others committed the crime! With Basilea out of the
race,
> Fulminatora easily takes first place, and Damnator takes second.
>
> 1st: Fulminatora
> 2nd: Sabotage!
> 3rd: Damnator
> 4th: Ossifragus
>
> Qualify for semi-final: Fulminatora and Damnator
>
> *******************************Race 3*************************
>
> Name: Lucius Arminius Metellus
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Aegeus
> Chariot: Metella Maxima
> Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To hurry in the straight
lines
> Tactics for the Finals: hurry in the last laps
>
> Name: Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
> Factio: Albata
> Chariot: Impactus Infrenatus
> Driver: Concordius
> Tactics in Quarters/Semis: 5
> Tactics in Finals: 6
>
> Name:Lucius Aeneas Apollonius Constantius
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Polycrates.
> Tactics for quarter/semi finals: To support a
> constant pace.
> Tactics for finals: Push rivals to wall of the
> circus.
>
> Name:Titus Arminius Volusius
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Lepidus
> Chariot: Velox
> Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To lash the rivals
> His/her tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals
>
> The last of the Venetas has raced, and now there are two Russatas
> alongside the Praesina and Albata! The Albata fans will be glad
to
> see that the experienced Impactus Infrenatus is taking the field,
but
> Polycrates of the greens, and Velox and Metella Maxima of Russata
> will be trying to stop him winning. There goes the signal, and
there
> go the chariots! Metella Maxima and Velox both get an early
> advantage, and vie with each other for position. Polycrates keeps
a
> fairly constant speed, waiting for the best time to overtake the
> others. Meanwhile, Impactus Infrenatus is hoping to push one of
his
> rivals out of the way. However, the driver, Concordius, is so
busy
> looking for such opportunities that he falls behind the other
> chariots. Velox, noticing Metella Maxima pull ahead, whips one of
> its horses. However, the tough creature takes no notice, and
> continues racing. Metella Maxima moves over to the side a little,
> hoping to avoid the whip of Velox. Meanwhile, Impactus Infrenatus
> pulls up beside Polycrates, who, surprisingly, voluntarily pulls
back
> rather than be pushes into the sides of the circus! Polycrates
> continues to look for his opportunity, but is now in fourth.
> Impactus Infrenatus, continuing this wild dash, accelerates
between
> Metella Maxima and Velox. However, it is now that Concordius
makes
> his mistake, while wedged between two other chariots. He realises
> that being between two Russatas is not good, so he moves the
chariot
> right, pushing into Metella Maxima. The horses, not used to this
new
> kind of tactic, are unable to stop the inevitable collision with
the
> wall. With Metella Maxima out, Velox uses Impactus Infrenatus'
> instability to pull ahead, and Polycrates also sees his chance.
> After having kept a constant pace throughout, he pushes forward,
> passing Impactus Infrenatus at the last moment!
>
> 1st: Velox
> 2nd: Accident!
> 3rd: Polycrates
> 4th: Impactus Infrenatus
>
> Qualify for Semi-final: Velox and Polycrates
>
> *****************************Race 4**********************
>
> Name: Titus Labienus Fortunatus
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Pelops Celer
> Chariot: Volatilis
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: Hurry in the straight lines.
> Tactics for the finals: Hurry in the straight lines.
>
> Name: M.Tullius Philippicae
> Factio: Albata
> Chariot name: Alea Iacta Est
> The name of your driver: Aurelius
> Tactics for the quarter-finals: To hurry in the straight lines
> Tactics for the semi-finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the
> circus
> Tactics for the finals: To hurry in the straight lines
>
> Name: Spurius Arminius Carus
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Carinus
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To support a constant pace
> Tactics for the finals: To support a constant pace
>
> In this the fourth race, there is one of every factio except
Veneta
> taking part. For Russata, Carinus is racing. For Albata, the
> symbolic Alea Iacta Est. And for Praesina, the veteran Volatilis,
> under the patronship of Titus Labienus Fortunatus. Perhaps
> Fortunatus is hoping that his name will apply to his chariot, yes?
> And it looks like it might. Volatilis gets a good start, with
Alea
> Iacta Est just behind. Tailing them is Carinus, hoping for a good
> opportunity to overtake. This race all seems to be about
position,
> and each chariot is doing their best to gain every valuable second
> over the opponent. Alea Iacta Est gains a little ground on
> Volatilis, with Carinus continuing to dog the tracks of Alea Iacta
> Est. But now Aurelius, driver of Alea Iacta Est, manages a
brilliant
> manoeuvre. He whips the horses into a frenzy, making them push
past
> Volatilis, and then swings his chariot into Volatilis' path,
forcing
> Pelops Celer to stop. This done, he accelerates once more.
Although
> Pelops Celer gets the horses moving again expertly, the delay is
too
> much, and Carinus also overtakes. Alea Iacta Est, however, is
> unbeatable, and takes first place comfortably.
>
> 1st: Alea Iacta Est
> 2nd: Carinus
> 3rd: Volatilis
>
> Qualifies for Semi-final: Alea Iacta Est
>
> ************************Race 5
>
> Name: Marcus Minucius Audens
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Pugio
> Name of Chariot:Green Flash
> Tactics: Hurry in last laps
>
> Name: L. Arminius Cotta
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Oros Cottiae
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To push the rivals to the
wall
> of the circus,
> Tactics for the finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the
circus,
>
> Name: Kaeso Arminius Cato
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Drausius
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To lash the rivals
> Tactics for the finals: To hurry in the straight lines
>
> There are two Russatas in this race, leaving the Praesina, Pugio,
> feeling distinctly uneasy. Even worse, he starts between Oros
> Cottiae and Drausius - what's the phrase? A rock and... Oh!
There
> they go! None of them seems able to get an advantage, and they're
> racing in a uniform line. Perhaps the drivers were once
> legionaries. Drausius, frustrated with his lack of immediate
> success, starts to bring his whip to bear in Pugio, who controls
his
> team of horses, and stops the whip from having any large effect.
> They continue racing, with Oros Cottiae simply awaiting the right
> moment to strike. Halfway through the race, he decides that
moment
> is now. He moves inward, hoping to knock Pugio into Drausius.
> However, Pugio, with amazing reflexes, professionally accelerates
> away, letting Oros Cottiae crash into Drausius. Amazing! The two
> Russatas have crashed and brought each other out of the race!
Pugio
> raises his hand, acknowledging the applause, and easily glides
into
> first place.
>
> 1st: Pugio
> 2nd: Accident!
> 3rd: Accident!
>
> Qualifies for Semi-final: Pugio
>
> **************************Race 6************************
>
> Name: Philippus Arminius Remus
> Factio: Russata
> Driver: Remus Viliamus
> Chariot: Unarmed and dangerous
> Tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To push the rivals to the
wall
> of the circus
> Tactics for the finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the
circus
>
> Name: Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
> Factio: Praesina
> Driver: Italicus
> Chariot name: Essedum
> Your tactics for the quarter/semi-finals: To lash the rivals,
> Your tactics for the finals: To hurry in the last laps,
>
> Name: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
> Factio: Albata
> Driver: Draco Borealis
> Chariot: Imperator Invictus
> Tactics: To push the rivals to the wall of the circus (all rounds)
>
> This last race should have a Russata, Unarmed and Dangerous, a
> Praesina, Essedum, and an Albata, Imperator Invictus, driving.
> However, earlier today, a man was found trying to damage Essedum.
> After being told that he would be free to go if he told us of his
> employer, it turned out that he was working for Philippus Arminius
> Remus, the patron of Unarmed and Dangerous. Sir, we have decided
to
> take no further action, but you have been disqualified from this
> race! Please do not consider using such dishonourable tactics in
the
> future! Consequently, this race is between only two chariots, a
> green and white. And there they go! Immediately, Essedum starts
to
> lash the horses of Imperator Invictus. Angered, Draco Borealis,
> driver of Imperator Invictus, responds by forcing his way closer
to
> Essedum, trying to push Essedum against the walls of the circus.
> However, Essedum refuses to give ground, and they continue to make
> their way round the track, both of them continuing to violently
> attempt to put their opponent out of the race! At one point,
> Italicus, Essedum's driver, lashes Draco Borealis on the hip!
> However, the endurant Draco Borealis just ignores the pain, and
slams
> swiftly into Essedum. Caught unawares, Italicus falls sideways,
out
> of the chariot! Luckily, apart from some minor bruises, Italicus
> seems to be fine. Without control, Essedum soon falls behind
> Imperator Invictus, who takes first place!
>
> 1st: Imperator Invictus
> 2nd: Accident!
> 3rd: Convicted of sabotage
>
> Qualifies for semi-final: Imperator Invictus.
>
> The first round is over, quirites! We have nine qualifiers:
> Orionis Draco, (Veneta)
> B.S.D. Liber, (Albata)
> Fulminatora, (Russata)
> Damnator, (Albata)
> Velox, (Russata)
> Polycrates, (Praesina)
> Alea Iacta Est, (Albata)
> Pugio, (Praesina)
> Imperator Invictus. (Albata)
>
> Of these, there are 4 Albata, 2 Russata, 2 Praesina, and 1 Veneta.
> On the 15th, these nine drivers will race to find the four
> finalists! Don't miss it!

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Election Procedures
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:38:52 +0200

SAlve Lucius Quintius Constantius!
> How long is it until the next run-off for Tribune of the Plebs?
The voting won't begin for about another 2 weeks. don't worry, we'll remind
you when it's time to vote :-)

Vale,
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribune






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:23:37 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus L. Sicinio Druso salutem dicit.

Salve, L. Sicini.

I think the transmission history of Cicero's works suggests that
Cicero was not the kind of exemplar/paradigm in antiquity that some
see him as today. Cicero's writings were not the paradigm of Latin
composition they have become in Western Europe and America in the 18th
and 19th centuries. That fact that so many of Cicero works exist only
in unique (or a bare handful of) manuscripts means that late classical
antiquity and medieval Europe were often only cursorily familiar with
him and is powerful evidence that Cicero was not widely read among or
use as a paradigm of prose composition (indeed, the principal way in
which Cicero's speeches and letters spread across Europe was in
florilegia, epitomes with brief quotes from several authors on the
same general subject -- the medievals mainly knew Cicero in bits and
pieces) ; Quintillian was rather more extensively copied than Cicero
and was the rhetorical example put before late antique and medieval
students. This is not to say that Cicero was without serious
influence in the Middle Ages, but ratherto put him in a context which
less resonates
as the master of literary style and m ore as _a_ master of rhetoirc
among others (those passages in Cicero which appeared to give comfort
to the Christian world-view were also widely circulated as a claasical
endorsement of the Christian world-view). During the Italian
renaissance Cicero increased in popularity and the principal
attraction to Renaissance Latinists was not his style, but his ability
to safely swim the potentially fatal
waters of Roman politics for most of his life. However, the real
emphasis on Cicero as a literary-stylistic, rhetorical, and
political-philosophic aradigm began only in the 18th and 19th
Centuries. He was a particular favourite of Whigs who saw in his
political philosophy an adumbration of the "separation of powers" and
"balanced government" which gave them an intellectual weapon against
those who insisted on the primacy of the King and his confidants.
Cicero's personal and political philosophy also found
resonances among the founding fathers of the American revolution.
Frankly that view of Cicero completely ignores Cicero's frantic
efforts to win acceptance by the Boni and the smary means to which he
sometimes stooped to advance his career. It was out of these changing
attitudes toward that Cicero was introduced in great measure to the
public school (in the British sense) curriculum. It was in the
nineteenth century in Europe and America that Cicero became the
standard against which to judge Latin composition. Mind you, I've
read a great deal of Cicero, and there are times when his prose is
among the most beautiful ever written, but there are also times when
it plodes under the weight of an entirely unncessary,
self-aggrandizing pedantry. But the idea of Cicero as the principal
paradigm of Latin prose composition is entirely of 18th- and
19th-century educatorrs and their political prejudices.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Away
From:	Spurius Postumius Tubertus <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:28:34 +0200 (MEST)

Sp. Postumius Quiritibus Sal.

Salvete,

As a small note, I, Sp. Postumius, will be away on vacation for the duration
of the month. I'll still be able to be contacted, but my replies may not
come immedeately.

Valete,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

--
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Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] CEREALIA HOMERIC HOUR
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:07:31 -0300 (ART)

Homeric Hymns (ed. Hugh G. Evelyn-White)
To Ceres
I begin to sing of rich-haired Ceres, awful goddess --of her and her trim-ankled daughter whom Pluto Aidoneus rapt away, given to him by all-seeing Jupiter the loud-thunderer.
Apart from Ceres, lady of the golden sword and glorious fruits, she was playing with the deep-bosomed daughters of Oceanus and gathering flowers over a soft meadow, roses and crocuses and beautiful violets, irises also and hyacinths and the narcissus, which Earth made to grow at the will of Jupiter and to please the Host of Many, to be a snare for the bloom-like girl -- a marvellous, radiant flower. It was a thing of awe whether for deathless gods or mortal men to see: from its root grew a hundred blooms and it smelled most sweetly, so that all wide heaven above and the whole earth and the sea's salt swell laughed for joy. And the girl was amazed and reached out with both hands to take the lovely toy; but the wide-pathed earth yawned there in the plain of Nysa, and the lord, Host of Many, with his immortal horses sprang out upon her --the Son of Saturno, He who has many names.
He caught her up reluctant on his golden car and bare her away lamenting. Then she cried out shrilly with her voice, calling upon her father, the Son of Saturno, who is most high and excellent. But no one, either of the deathless gods or of mortal men, heard her voice, nor yet the olive-trees bearing rich fruit: only tender-hearted Hecate, bright-coiffed, the daughter of Persaeus, heard the girl from her cave, and the lord Helios, Hyperion's bright son, as she cried to her father, the Son of Saturno. But he was sitting aloof, apart from the gods, in his temple where many pray, and receiving sweet offerings from mortal men. So he, that son of Saturno, of many names, who is Ruler of Many and Host of Many, was bearing her away by leave of Jupiter on his immortal chariot --his own brother's child and all unwilling.
And so long as she, the goddess, yet beheld earth and starry heaven and the strong-flowing sea where fishes shoal, and the rays of the sun, and still hoped to see her dear mother and the tribes of the eternal gods, so long hope calmed her great heart for all her trouble ... and the heights of the mountains and the depths of the sea rang with her immortal voice: and her queenly mother heard her.
Bitter pain seized her heart, and she rent the covering upon her divine hair with her dear hands: her dark cloak she cast down from both her shoulders and sped, like a wild-bird, over the firm land and yielding sea, seeking her child. But no one would tell her the truth, neither god nor mortal man; and of the birds of omen none came with true news for her. Then for nine days queenly Deo wandered over the earth with flaming torches in her hands, so grieved that she never tasted ambrosia and the sweet draught of nectar, nor sprinkled her body with water. But when the tenth enlightening dawn had come, Hecate, with a torch in her hands, met her, and spoke to her and told her news:
“Queenly Ceres, bringer of seasons and giver of good gifts, what god of heaven or what mortal man has rapt away Proserpina and pierced with sorrow your dear heart? For I heard her voice, yet saw not with my eyes who it was. But I tell you truly and shortly all I know.”
So, then, said Hecate. And the daughter of rich-haired Cibele answered her not, but sped swiftly with her, holding flaming torches in her hands. So they came to Helios, who is watchman of both gods and men, and stood in front of his horses: and the bright goddess enquired of him: “Helios, do you at least regard me, goddess as I am, if ever by word or deed of mine I have cheered your heart and spirit. Through the fruitless air I heard the thrilling cry of my daughter whom I bare, sweet scion of my body and lovely in form, as of one seized violently; though with my eyes I saw nothing. But you --for with your beams you look down from the bright upper air over all the earth and sea --tell me truly of my dear child, if you have seen her anywhere, what god or mortal man has violently seized her against her will and mine, and so made off.”
So said she. And the Son of Hyperion answered her: “Queen Ceres, daughter of rich-haired Cibele, I will tell you the truth; for I greatly reverence and pity you in your grief for your trim-ankled daughter. None other of the deathless gods is to blame, but only cloud-gathering Jupiter who gave her to Pluto, her father's brother, to be called his buxom wife. And Pluto seized her and took her loudly crying in his chariot down to his realm of mist and gloom. Yet, goddess, cease your loud lament and keep not vain anger unrelentingly: Aidoneus, the Ruler of Many, is no unfitting husband among the deathless gods for your child, being your own brother and born of the same stock: also, for honor, he has that third share which he received when division was made at the first, and is appointed lord of those among whom he dwells.”
So he spake, and called to his horses: and at his chiding they quickly whirled the swift chariot along, like long-winged birds.
But grief yet more terrible and savage came into the heart of Ceres, and thereafter she was so angered with the dark-clouded Son of Saturno that she avoided the gathering of the gods and high Olympus, and went to the towns and rich fields of men, disfiguring her form a long while. And no one of men or deep-bosomed women knew her when they saw her, until she came to the house of wise Celeus who then was lord of fragrant Eleusis. Vexed in her dear heart, she sat near the wayside by the Maiden Well, from which the women of the place were used to draw water, in a shady place over which grew an olive shrub. And she was like an ancient woman who is cut off from childbearing and the gifts of garland-loving Venus, like the nurses of kings' children who deal justice, or like the house-keepers in their echoing halls. There the daughters of Celeus, son of Eleusis, saw her, as they were coming for easy-drawn water, to carry it in pitchers of bronze to their dear father's house: four were they and like goddesses in the flower of their girlhood, Callidice and Cleisidice and lovely Demo and Callithoe who was the eldest of them all. They knew her not, --for the gods are not easily discerned by mortals --, but standing near by her spoke winged words:
“Old mother, whence and who are you of folk born long ago? Why are you gone away from the city and do not draw near the houses? For there in the shady halls are women of just such age as you, and others younger; and they would welcome you both by word and by deed.”
Thus they said. And she, that queen among goddesses answered them saying: “Hail, dear children, whosoever you are of woman-kind. I will tell you my story; for it is not unseemly that I should tell you truly what you ask. Doso is my name, for my stately mother gave it me. And now I am come from Crete over the sea's wide back, --not willingly; but against my liking, by force of strength, pirates brought me thence. Afterwards they put in with their swift craft to Thoricus, and there the women landed on the shore in full throng and the men likewise, and they began to make ready a meal by the stern-cables of the ship. But my heart craved not pleasant food, and I fled secretly across the dark country and escaped my masters, that they should not take me unpurchased across the sea, there to win a price for me. And so I wandered and am come here: and I know not at all what land this is or what people are in it. But may all those who dwell on Olympus give you husbands and birth of children as parents desire, so you take pity on me, maidens, a and show me this clearly that I may learn, dear children, to the house of what man and woman I may go, to work for them cheerfully at such tasks as belong to a woman of my age. Well could I nurse a new born child, holding him in my arms, or keep house, or spread my masters' bed in a recess of the well-built chamber, or teach the women their work.”
So said the goddess. And straightway the unwed maiden Callidice, goodliest in form of the daughters of Celeus, answered her and said:
“Mother, what the gods send us, we mortals bear perforce, although we suffer; for they are much stronger than we. But now I will teach you clearly, telling you the names of men who have great power and honor here and are chief among the people, guarding our city's coif of towers by their wisdom and true judgements: there is wise Triptolemus and Dioclus and Polyxeinus and blameless Eumolpus and Dolichus and our own brave father. All these have wives who manage in the house, and no one of them, so soon as she had seen you, would dishonor you and turn you from the house, but they will welcome you; for indeed you are godlike. But if you will, stay here; and we will go to our father's house and tell Metaneira, our deep-bosomed mother, all this matter fully, that she may bid you rather come to our home than search after the houses of others. She has an only son, late-born, who is being nursed in our well-built house, a child of many prayers and welcome: if you could bring him up until he reached the full measure of youth, any one of womankind who should see you would straightway envy you, such gifts would our mother give for his upbringing.”
So she spake: and the goddess bowed her head in assent. And they filled their shining vessels with water and carried them off rejoicing. Quickly they came to their father's great house and straightway told their mother according as they had heard and seen. Then she bade them go with all speed and invite the stranger to come for a measureless hire. As hinds or heifers in spring time, when sated with pasture, bound about a meadow, so they, holding up the folds of their lovely garments, darted down the hollow path, and their hair like a crocus flower streamed about their shoulders. And they found the good goddess near the wayside where they had left her before, and led her to the house of their dear father. And she walked behind, distressed in her dear heart, with her head veiled and wearing a dark cloak which waved about the slender feet of the goddess.
Soon they came to the house of heaven-nurtured Celeus and went through the portico to where their queenly mother sat by a pillar of the close-fitted roof, holding her son, a tender scion, in her bosom. And the girls ran to her. But the goddess walked to the threshold: and her head reached the roof and she filled the doorway with a heavenly radiance. Then awe and reverence and pale fear took hold of Metaneira, and she rose up from her couch before Ceres, and bade her be seated. But Ceres, bringer of seasons and giver of perfect gifts, would not sit upon the bright couch, but stayed silent with lovely eyes cast down until careful Iambe placed a jointed seat for her and threw over it a silvery fleece. Then she sat down and held her veil in her hands before her face. A long time she sat upon the stool without speaking because of her sorrow, and greeted no one by word or by sign, but rested, never smiling, and tasting neither food nor drink, because she pined with longing for her deep-bosomed daughter, until careful Iambe --who pleased her moods in aftertime also --moved the holy lady with many a quip and jest to smile and laugh and cheer her heart. Then Metaneira filled a cup with sweet wine and offered it to her; but she refused it, for she said it was not lawful for her to drink red wine, but bade them mix meal and water with soft mint and give her to drink. And Metaneira mixed the draught and gave it to the goddess as she bade. So the great queen Deo received it to observe the sacrament ...
And of them all, well-girded Metaneira first began to speak:
“Hail, lady! For I think you are not meanly but nobly born; truly dignity and grace are conspicuous upon your eyes as in the eyes of kings that deal justice. Yet we mortals bear perforce what the gods send us, though we be grieved; for a yoke is set upon our necks. But now, since you are come here, you shall have what I can bestow: and nurse me this child whom the gods gave me in my old age and beyond my hope, a son much prayed for. If you should bring him up until he reach the full measure of youth, any one of woman-kind that sees you will straightway envy you, so great reward would I give for his upbringing.”
Then rich-haired Ceres answered her: “And to you, also, lady, all hail, and may the gods give you good! Gladly will I take the boy to my breast, as you bid me, and will nurse him. Never, I ween, through any heedlessness of his nurse shall witchcraft hurt him nor yet the Undercutter: for I know a charm far stronger than the Woodcutter, and I know an excellent safeguard against woeful witchcraft.”
When she had so spoken, she took the child in her fragrant bosom with her divine hands: and his mother was glad in her heart. So the goddess nursed in the palace Demophoon, wise Celeus' goodly son whom well-girded Metaneira bare. And the child grew like some immortal being, not fed with food nor nourished at the breast: for by day a rich-crowned Ceres would anoint him with ambrosia as if he were the offspring of a god and breathe sweetly upon him as she held him in her bosom. But at night she would hide him like a brand in the heart of the fire, unknown to his dear parents. And it wrought great wonder in these that he grew beyond his age; for he was like the gods face to face. And she would have made him deathless and unageing, had not well-girded Metaneira in her heedlessness kept watch by night from her sweet-smelling chamber and spied. But she wailed and smote her two hips, because she feared for her son and was greatly distraught in her heart; so she lamented and uttered winged words:
“Demophoon, my son, the strange woman buries you deep in fire and works grief and bitter sorrow for me.”
Thus she spoke, mourning. And the bright goddess, lovely-crowned Ceres, heard her, and was wroth with her. So with her divine hands she snatched from the fire the dear son whom Metaneira had born unhoped-for in the palace, and cast him from her to the ground; for she was terribly angry in her heart. Forthwith she said to well-girded Metaneira:
“Witless are you mortals and dull to foresee your lot, whether of good or evil, that comes upon you. For now in your heedlessness you have wrought folly past healing; for --be witness the oath of the gods, the relentless water of Styx -- I would have made your dear son deathless and unaging all his days and would have bestowed on him everlasting honor, but now he can in no way escape death and the fates. Yet shall unfailing honor always rest upon him, because he lay upon my knees and slept in my arms. But, as the years move round and when he is in his prime, the sons of the Eleusinians shall ever wage war and dread strife with one another continually. Lo! I am that Ceres who has share of honor and is the greatest help and cause of joy to the undying gods and mortal men. But now, let all the people build me a great temple and an altar below it and beneath the city and its sheer wall upon a rising hillock above Callichorus. And I myself will teach my rites, that hereafter you may reverently perform them and so win the favour of my heart.”
When she had so said, the goddess changed her stature and her looks, thrusting old age away from her: beauty spread round about her and a lovely fragrance was wafted from her sweet-smelling robes, and from the divine body of the goddess a light shone afar, while golden tresses spread down over her shoulders, so that the strong house was filled with brightness as with lightning. And so she went out from the palace.
And straightway Metaneira's knees were loosed and she remained speechless for a long while and did not remember to take up her late-born son from the ground. But his sisters heard his pitiful wailing and sprang down from their well-spread beds: one of them took up the child in her arms and laid him in her bosom, while another revived the fire, and a third rushed with soft feet to bring their mother from her fragrant chamber. And they gathered about the struggling child and washed him, embracing him lovingly; but he was not comforted, because nurses and handmaids much less skilful were holding him now.
All night long they sought to appease the glorious goddess, quaking with fear. But, as soon as dawn began to show, they told powerful Celeus all things without fail, as the lovely-crowned goddess Ceres charged them. So Celeus called the countless people to an assembly and bade them make a goodly temple for rich-haired Ceres and an altar upon the rising hillock. And they obeyed him right speedily and harkened to his voice, doing as he commanded. As for the child, he grew like an immortal being.
Now when they had finished building and had drawn back from their toil, they went every man to his house. But golden-haired Ceres sat there apart from all the blessed gods and stayed, wasting with yearning for her deep-bosomed daughter. Then she caused a most dreadful and cruel year for mankind over the all-nourishing earth: the ground would not make the seed sprout, for rich-crowned Ceres kept it hid. In the fields the oxen drew many a curved plough in vain, and much white barley was cast upon the land without avail. So she would have destroyed the whole race of man with cruel famine and have robbed them who dwell on Olympus of their glorious right of gifts and sacrifices, had not Jupiter perceived and marked this in his heart. First he sent golden-winged Iris to call rich-haired Ceres, lovely in form. So he commanded. And she obeyed the dark-clouded Son of Saturno, and sped with swift feet across the space between. She came to the stronghold of fragrant Eleusis, and there finding dark-cloaked Ceres in her temple, spake to her and uttered winged words:
“Ceres, father Jupiter, whose wisdom is everlasting, calls you to come join the tribes of the eternal gods: come therefore, and let not the message I bring from Jupiter pass unobeyed.”
Thus said Iris imploring her. But Ceres's heart was not moved. Then again the father sent forth all the blessed and eternal gods besides: and they came, one after the other, and kept calling her and offering many very beautiful gifts and whatever rights she might be pleased to choose among the deathless gods. Yet no one was able to persuade her mind and will, so wroth was she in her heart; but she stubbornly rejected all their words: for she vowed that she would never set foot on fragrant Olympus nor let fruit spring out of the ground, until she beheld with her eyes her own fair-faced daughter.
Now when all-seeing Jupiter the loud-thunderer heard this, he sent the Slayer of Argus whose wand is of gold to Erebus, so that having won over Pluto with soft words, he might lead forth chaste Proserpina to the light from the misty gloom to join the gods, and that her mother might see her with her eyes and cease from her anger. And Mercurio obeyed, and leaving the house of Olympus, straightway sprang down with speed to the hidden places of the earth. And he found the lord Pluto in his house seated upon a couch, and his shy mate with him, much reluctant, because she yearned for her mother. But she was afar off, brooding on her fell design because of the deeds of the blessed gods. And the strong Slayer of Argus drew near and said:
“Dark-haired Pluto, ruler over the departed, father Jupiter bids me bring noble Proserpina forth from Erebus unto the gods, that her mother may see her with her eyes and cease from her dread anger with the immortals; for now she plans an awful deed, to destroy the weakly tribes of earth-born men by keeping seed hidden beneath the earth, and so she makes an end of the honors of the undying gods. For she keeps fearful anger and does not consort with the gods, but sits aloof in her fragrant temple, dwelling in the rocky hold of Eleusis.”
So he said. And Aidoneus, ruler over the dead, smiled grimly and obeyed the behest of Jupiter the king. For he straightway urged wise Proserpina, saying:
“Go now, Proserpina, to your dark-robed mother, go, and feel kindly in your heart towards me: be not so exceedingly cast down; for I shall be no unfitting husband for you among the deathless gods, that am own brother to father Jupiter. And while you are here, you shall rule all that lives and moves and shall have the greatest rights among the deathless gods: those who defraud you and do not appease your power with offerings, reverently performing rites and paying fit gifts, shall be punished for evermore.”
When he said this, wise Proserpina was filled with joy and hastily sprang up for gladness. But he on his part secretly gave her sweet pomegranate seed to eat, taking care for himself that she might not remain continually with grave, dark-robed Ceres. Then Aidoneus the Ruler of Many openly got ready his deathless horses beneath the golden chariot. And she mounted on the chariot, and the strong Slayer of Argus took reins and whip in his dear hands and drove forth from the hall, the horses speeding readily. Swiftly they traversed their long course, and neither the sea nor river-waters nor grassy glens nor mountain-peaks checked the career of the immortal horses, but they clave the deep air above them as they went. And Mercurio brought them to the place where rich-crowned Ceres was staying and checked them before her fragrant temple.
And when Ceres saw them, she rushed forth as does a Maenad down some thick-wooded mountain, while Proserpina on the other side, when she saw her mother's sweet eyes, left the chariot and horses, and leaped down to run to her, and falling upon her neck, embraced her. But while Ceres was still holding her dear child in her arms, her heart suddenly misgave her for some snare, so that she feared greatly and ceased fondling her daughter and asked of her at once: “My child, tell me, surely you have not tasted any food while you were below? Speak out and hide nothing, but let us both know. For if you have not, you shall come back from loathly Pluto and live with me and your father, the dark-clouded Son of Saturno and be honored by all the deathless gods; but if you have tasted food, you must go back again beneath the secret places of the earth, there to dwell a third part of the seasons every year: yet for the two parts you shall be with me and the other deathless gods. But when the earth shall bloom with the fragrant flowers of spring in every kind, then from the realm of darkness and gloom thou shalt come up once more to be a wonder for gods and mortal men. a And now tell me how he rapt you away to the realm of darkness and gloom, and by what trick did the strong Host of Many beguile you?”
Then beautiful Proserpina answered her thus: “Mother, I will tell you all without error. When luck-bringing Mercurio came, swift messenger from my father the Son of Saturno and the other Sons of Heaven, bidding me come back from Erebus that you might see me with your eyes and so cease from your anger and fearful wrath against the gods, I sprang up at once for joy; but he secretly put in my mouth sweet food, a pomegranate seed, and forced me to taste against my will. Also I will tell how he rapt me away by the deep plan of my father the Son of Saturno and carried me off beneath the depths of the earth, and will relate the whole matter as you ask. All we were playing in a lovely meadow, Leucippe and Phaeno and Electra and Ianthe, Melita also and Iache with Rhodea and Callirhoe and Melobosis and Tyche and Ocyrhoe, fair as a flower, Chryseis, Ianeira, Acaste and Admete and Rhodope and Pluto and charming Calypso; Styx too was there and Urania and lovely Galaxaura with Pallas who rouses battles and Diana delighting in arrows: we were playing and gathering sweet flowers in our hands, soft crocuses mingled with irises and hyacinths, and rose-blooms and lilies, marvellous to see, and the narcissus which the wide earth caused to grow yellow as a crocus. That I plucked in my joy; but the earth parted beneath, and there the strong lord, the Host of Many, sprang forth and in his golden chariot he bore me away, all unwilling, beneath the earth: then I cried with a shrill cry. All this is true, sore though it grieves me to tell the tale.”
So did they then, with hearts at one, greatly cheer each the other's soul and spirit with many an embrace: their hearts had relief from their griefs while each took and gave back joyousness.
Then bright-coiffed Hecate came near to them, and often did she embrace the daughter of holy Ceres: and from that time the lady Hecate was minister and companion to Proserpina.
And all-seeing Jupiter sent a messenger to them, rich-haired Cibele, to bring dark-cloaked Ceres to join the families of the gods: and he promised to give her what rights she should choose among the deathless gods and agreed that her daughter should go down for the third part of the circling year to darkness and gloom, but for the two parts should live with her mother and the other deathless gods. Thus he commanded. And the goddess did not disobey the message of Jupiter; swiftly she rushed down from the peaks of Olympus and came to the plain of Rharus, rich, fertile corn-land once, but then in nowise fruitful, for it lay idle and utterly leafless, because the white grain was hidden by design of trim-ankled Ceres. But afterwards, as spring-time waxed, it was soon to be waving with long ears of corn, and its rich furrows to be loaded with grain upon the ground, while others would already be bound in sheaves. There first she landed from the fruitless upper air: and glad were the goddesses to see each other and cheered in heart. Then bright-coiffed Cibele said to Ceres:
“Come, my daughter; for far-seeing Jupiter the loud-thunderer calls you to join the families of the gods, and has promised to give you what rights you please among the deathless gods, and has agreed that for a third part of the circling year your daughter shall go down to darkness and gloom, but for the two parts shall be with you and the other deathless gods: so has he declared it shall be and has bowed his head in token. But come, my child, obey, and be not too angry unrelentingly with the dark-clouded Son of Saturno; but rather increase forthwith for men the fruit that gives them life.”
So spake Cibele. And rich-crowned Ceres did not refuse but straightway made fruit to spring up from the rich lands, so that the whole wide earth was laden with leaves and flowers. Then she went, and to the kings who deal justice, Triptolemus and Diocles, the horse-driver, and to doughty Eumolpus and Celeus, leader of the people, she showed the conduct of her rites and taught them all her mysteries, to Triptolemus and Polyxeinus and Diocles also, --awful mysteries which no one may in any way transgress or pry into or utter, for deep awe of the gods checks the voice. Happy is he among men upon earth who has seen these mysteries; but he who is uninitiate and who has no part in them, never has lot of like good things once he is dead, down in the darkness and gloom.
But when the bright goddess had taught them all, they went to Olympus to the gathering of the other gods. And there they dwell beside Jupiter who delights in thunder, awful and reverend goddesses. Right blessed is he among men on earth whom they freely love: soon they do send Plutus as guest to his great house, Plutus who gives wealth to mortal men.
And now, queen of the land of sweet Eleusis and sea-girt Paros and rocky Antron, lady, giver of good gifts, bringer of seasons, queen Deo, be gracious, you and your daughter all beauteous Proserpina, and for my song grant me heart-cheering substance. And now I will remember you and another song also.________ And may the goddess, on honor of her happiness having her daughter back, bless our Res Publica on this Cerealia! L. Arminius FaustusSenior Plebeian Aedile


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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:12:59 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> > If you have candidate A and candidate B you can
> only
> > choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
> > irrational, unmodellable behaviour.
>
> You've never served as Rogator have you? <GRIN>

I haven't, though I'd like to have a go some day. :)

But seriously, please do explain what a voter can do
in filling out a ballot paper which a computer
couldn't cope with, because I'm intrigued.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folks!)
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:37:53 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Brett Murphy <aussiegent@y...>
wrote:
> Is that on the subject of colonies or am I mistaken?

*****You are correct, it IS on forming colonies. :-)
Publius Tarquitius Rufus

>
> http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
> - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone
mobile.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folks!)
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:50:07 -0000

Salve Senator Drusus!

Thanks for your good points, and they have been added! :-) Here is
what I would like a member of the Senate or the Plebs to pass on
please:

Lex Tarquitius Municipiae

I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova Romans to be active
as a group and as individuals, the following is proposed:

1. Within a given Providence as geographical boundaries, A group of
THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to create a
Municipia.

1a. Recommend that the geographical boundary NOT cross provincial
boundaries, and be within a 150KM from the central city of
record/city of application.

2. Applications for all Municipiae must be submitted to the Senate
AFTER it is approved by the Governor.

2a. ALL applications are required to be submitted to the
Senate by the Governor if the application is received 10 days prior
to the next Senate meeting. If the Governor disapproves the
application, the Governor must forward the application and the
reasons for disapproval to the Senate for their review, and possible
acceptance.

2b. All Municipiae awaiting approval are considered "Provisional
Colonies" until Gubernatorial, and Senate Approval is granted to the
colony.

3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on Municipiae Council
(***NOTE: 1/2 of the Colony members MUST have paid dues to Nova Roma)
Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders

4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts ANNUALLY, in March.

5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in order to be
eligible for election. (NO wavers on this item permitted)

6. There must be a website created within 15 days of approval of the
Municipiae by the Providence's Governor.

6a. All documents related to the colony shall by typed and
saved on the site website. The originals shall be maintained at the
home/office of the Head Magistrate or colony scribe.

7. Recommended Approval Process: 1 -Governor of Providence (if no
reply, send to the Consuls for approval, with notification of Senate
required). This will give the colony a "provisional" (or "Latin
Rights") status. 2-The application must be approved by the Senate at
its next scheduled meeting. Once approved by the Senate, it becomes
a "Roman Rights Municipia".

8. After initial opening of Municipiae, if a person has paid their
dues
or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the colony is
automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership council will
approve or disapprove the application. If dues are then paid to
council, acceptance is automatic.

9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings, and Leadership
council must meet monthly.

10. Municipiae Dues - Set by colony, but must be reported to Governor
and Consuls quarterly.

11. Appointed positions within Municipiae:
a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose. but here are some
recommendations:

1. Webmaster
2. Quaestor
3. Scribe (P/R man)
4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and Governor
approval)

================================================================

I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the Tribunes of the
Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate. Please feel free to
post on this, as I am here to learn!

Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Nova Roman Assudii 2003


Thanks, L. Sicinius Drusus!!!

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folks!)
From:	"William Rogers" <wlr107@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:50:21 -0000

Salve Senator Drusus!

Thanks for your good points, and they have been added! :-) Here is
what I would like a member of the Senate or the Plebs to pass on
please:

Lex Tarquitius Municipiae

I. Whereas there is a strong need for more Nova Romans to be active
as a group and as individuals, the following is proposed:

1. Within a given Providence as geographical boundaries, A group of
THREE (or more) DUES PAYING members may petition to create a
Municipia.

1a. Recommend that the geographical boundary NOT cross provincial
boundaries, and be within a 150KM from the central city of
record/city of application.

2. Applications for all Municipiae must be submitted to the Senate
AFTER it is approved by the Governor.

2a. ALL applications are required to be submitted to the
Senate by the Governor if the application is received 10 days prior
to the next Senate meeting. If the Governor disapproves the
application, the Governor must forward the application and the
reasons for disapproval to the Senate for their review, and possible
acceptance.

2b. All Municipiae awaiting approval are considered "Provisional
Colonies" until Gubernatorial, and Senate Approval is granted to the
colony.

3. Colony Levels: Elected Leader(s) Required on Municipiae Council
(***NOTE: 1/2 of the Colony members MUST have paid dues to Nova Roma)
Level 1. 3 to 9 members 2 Leaders
Level 2. 10 to 20 members 3 Leaders
Level 3. 20 to 30 members 3 Leaders
Level 4. 30 PLUS members 3 Leaders

4. Elections shall occur for all leadership posts ANNUALLY, in March.

5. Leaders must have paid their dues by March 1st in order to be
eligible for election. (NO wavers on this item permitted)

6. There must be a website created within 15 days of approval of the
Municipiae by the Providence's Governor.

6a. All documents related to the colony shall by typed and
saved on the site website. The originals shall be maintained at the
home/office of the Head Magistrate or colony scribe.

7. Recommended Approval Process: 1 -Governor of Providence (if no
reply, send to the Consuls for approval, with notification of Senate
required). This will give the colony a "provisional" (or "Latin
Rights") status. 2-The application must be approved by the Senate at
its next scheduled meeting. Once approved by the Senate, it becomes
a "Roman Rights Municipia".

8. After initial opening of Municipiae, if a person has paid their
dues
or just joined Nova Roma, their application to the colony is
automatic. If they have NOT paid dues, Leadership council will
approve or disapprove the application. If dues are then paid to
council, acceptance is automatic.

9. Members are required at all quarterly meetings, and Leadership
council must meet monthly.

10. Municipiae Dues - Set by colony, but must be reported to Governor
and Consuls quarterly.

11. Appointed positions within Municipiae:
a. Leadership may appoint the offices they choose. but here are some
recommendations:

1. Webmaster
2. Quaestor
3. Scribe (P/R man)
4. Priest (with approval from Religio leadership and Governor
approval)

================================================================

I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the Tribunes of the
Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate. Please feel free to
post on this, as I am here to learn!

Publius Tarquitius Rufus
Nova Roman Assudii 2003


Thanks, L. Sicinius Drusus!!!

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: CEREALIA HOMERIC HOUR
From:	"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:02:55 -0000

The poor formating and merging of all line breaks done by the hateful
Yahoo mail on such beatufil text gives me a bitter sadness.

L. Arminius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Arminius Faustus
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Homeric Hymns (ed. Hugh G. Evelyn-White)
> To Ceres
> I begin to sing of rich-haired Ceres, awful goddess --of her and
her trim-ankled daughter whom Pluto Aidoneus rapt away, given to him
by all-seeing Jupiter the loud-thunderer.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Curse Tablets (Defixiones)
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:07:46 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the discussion of curse-tablets in "A Corpus of
Writing-Tablets from Roman Britain:

http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/RIB/RIBIV/jp4.htm

It's a British Academy research project under the auspices of the
Center for the Study of
Ancient Documents at Oxford University.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:53:50 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Octavius Giraldo-Vay <octavius@octavius-jewelrydesign.com>
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
>
>depictions of opposing religions to that of the invader, perhaps
>unworthy of protection?. It seems the only protection was given to the
>oil resources.
>

It is also even more opposed to the religious beliefs of the native extremists, as was evidenced by the Taliban's response to Buddhist art. As it happens, Baghdad is a developed city and the only fundamentalists are likely to be found among people like the Kurds who we favour. The National Archive of course probably contained as well as Ottoman writings, a lot of material incriminating to personnel associated with Saddam. No doubt he had his secret police and their informants and the all know what happened to the Staasi's Berlin archives. For the more ignorant, his self-association with equally horrendous personages of the past such as NebuChadrezzar may have backfired by tainting their works. We could always make a start looking for the original Ishtar Gate ofBabylon said to have been carted off to Germany long ago.


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:59:30 -0700

Ave A. Apollonius et Omnes,

They have a section where they can put the name of a non-running candidiate...which granted we can do in macronational elections too..but with our small numbers that can mean the difference with winning a Tribe or a Century.

Then there is also the section about abstaining all together as well.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


----- Original Message -----
From: A. Apollonius Cordus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?


A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> > If you have candidate A and candidate B you can
> only
> > choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
> > irrational, unmodellable behaviour.
>
> You've never served as Rogator have you? <GRIN>

I haven't, though I'd like to have a go some day. :)

But seriously, please do explain what a voter can do
in filling out a ballot paper which a computer
couldn't cope with, because I'm intrigued.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:13:34 -0400

Salve G. Iulius Scaurus


Thanks that is what most of the other reviews I read said. In general not a
very good book. So I will buy something else

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 2:00 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Anthony Everitt's _Cicero_


> G. Iulius Scaurus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, Tiberi Galeri.
>
> I read it and found it very superficial, with more errors than I would
> have expected from someone with a D.Phil. from Cambridge (but Everitt
> was trained mainly as an art historian and has spent most of his
> professional life as an "art consultant"). The breathless "Romans are
> so much like we moderns are" tone of the book was probably dictated by
> the marketing people (the picture of the _Flavian_ colosseum on the
> dust cover surely was a marketer's touch), but Everitt sees Cicero as
> the Roman analogue of a Tory parliamentarian, which obscures rather
> more than it illuminates. T. Corey Brennan's review in the NYT (Aug.
> 25, 2002) is absolutely correrct to point out that there is nothing
> new in Everitt's book, and rather more charitable about the rate of
> error than I would have been. A much better introduction to Cicero
> can be had in Neal Wood's _Cicero's Social and Political Thought_
> (Berkeley 1988), although Wood, too, shortchanges Cicero's
> philosophical work. The authoritative biography of Cicero in English
> is Tom Mitchell's two volumes: _Cicero, the Ascending the Years_
> (Yale, 1979) and _Cicero, the Senior Stateman_ (Yale, 1991). I
> confess I wonder whether posterity would have thought so highly of
> Cicero if it hadn't been for the accidental survival of so many of his
> works and letters, often in unique manuscripts. The writings of most
> of his contemporaries did not survive and, where they do, tend to
> reflect rather less favourably on him than his own do.
>
> Vale.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes
From:	labienus@novaroma.org
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:42:17 US/Central

Salvete Atia omnesque

> 1. May I pay for more than one year at a time (say 2 or 3 years)?

Yes. If the tax rate changes in subsequent years, whatever balance you have
will be credited to you. However, be advised that this is somewhat risky.
Each year, everyone involved in taxation changes because all of the positions
involved are elected. Therefore, it's possible that your advance payment might
get lost in the shuffle, causing you some headaches down the road.

> 2. Will I be informed by email when time to pay comes again?

Yes, so long as you are subscribed to the main list or the announcements list,
and/or have a valid email address on record with the censores.

> 3. Do I pay the same for my children as for myself (They are 4 and 6
> years now)?

No. Minores are exempt from taxation.

> 4. Do I pay the same rate for the minors as for myself?

Only if you want to. As I said, they're exempt.

> I only found out that taxes were owed by wandering onto the NR
> website.

This is probably because you were signed up to neither the main list nor the
announcements list and had an old email address on record with the censores.

> I also need to have my email address officially changed.

You can change your address from the Nova Roma site (though I can't seem to
reach it this morning), or you can send the censores your new address directly
at censors@novaroma.org.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:43:36 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Loos ing at the National Museumof Iraq
>
>Unfortunately, international laws are still nation based instead of
>humankind based.
>
It is very similar to law in the days of a free republic of equals (and dependents) a thousand years ago in Iceland or 200 as T. Jefferson probably wished it (or Anne MacCaffrey fantasises it). Yes there is law, no there is no way to enforce it if nobody wants to enforce it. Unfortunately, such a Gentleman's Agreement only works between perfect gentlemen. Once anyone is in a position to say " 'Outlawed, not to shelter or succour' but my fifty followers think different from your twenty, what you going to do about it?" it's on a par with the old days of declaring Nuclear Free Zones.
Vib. Ambrosius Caesariensis


--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:49:31 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> > > If you have candidate A and candidate B you can
> > only
> > > choose A, B, both or neither. There is no room for
> > > irrational, unmodellable behaviour.
> >
> > You've never served as Rogator have you? <GRIN>
>
> I haven't, though I'd like to have a go some day. :)
>
> But seriously, please do explain what a voter can do
> in filling out a ballot paper which a computer
> couldn't cope with, because I'm intrigued.
>
> Cordus

Salve,

There is the write-in line of the ballot which can throw things in
two ways.

Any voter can write in the name of a person not on the ballot. With
such small numbers in our tribes and centuries a write in can easily
take a tribe/century.

Also there is the phenomena of the voter putting a candidate who's
name is already on the ballot into the write in spot. Let's say
Lucius Diddlipus is on the ballot. Voter XYZ123 writes in Lucuis
Diddlipus. You and I would know that they are one and the same just
misspelled. A computer on the other hand thinks that Lucius
Diddlipus and Lucuis Diddlipus are two totally seperate people.
The "real" Lucius Diddlipus loses a vote. In the case of such small
tribes and centuries quite possibly the tribe/century and thusly the
election all because computers are not very good at understanding
intent.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] NR website
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:57:16 -0500 (CDT)

The server that houses novaroma.org was unreachable, or nearly unreachable,
from about 7pm to 3am CDT last night as the result of a denial of service
attack (also known as a "flood" or "SYN flood") against another host
on the same network.

Some criminal miscreant chose to attack my nameserver with a sustained
load of 4.5 Mb/s (4.5 million bits per second) of bogus requests to
connect. These made the network my servers are plugged into completely
unuseable (so much so that we could not even connect in order to diagnose
the problem from outside; I and another owner of servers there had to
drive to the location of the equipment and attach a monitor to
see what was happening).

The reason for this is that my secondary nameserver - the victim of
the attack - is a nameserver for a major anti-spam activity, the
SpamHaus project. Thousands of mail servers worldwide connect to our
nameservers each time they receive mail, in order to perform a database
lookup and determine whether the sender is a known spammer.

Apparently an angry spammer has decided to make spamhaus unuseable by
taking down the nameservers with a spoofed DOS attack - meaning the
addresses they use are forged and randomized to make blocking difficult.
I received confirmation this morning that at least one other spamhaus
nameserver had also been attacked.

At its high point there were about 8000 of these bogus requests coming
in per second, using an amount of bandwidth equivalent to three T1
lines (72 regular phone lines).

Finally, after three hours of repeatedly calling their help desk and
waiting for them to escalate to the next group of engineers, they
(the ISP) were able to block all traffic to the afflicted server,
thereby allowing the rest of the network to regain the ability to use
that connection.

Given the difficulty involved in getting filters put into a router
that I don't control, I'll likely be withdrawing as a spamhaus
nameserver; I can't afford to let this happen again.

[below is what I sent to an antispam mailing list habituated by
sysadmins and activists: ]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:19:37 -0500
From: Matt Haase <haase@KONOKO.COM>
To: SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Subject: denial of service attack against spamhaus.org nameserver

I run one of the nameservers for spamhaus.org - ns2.konoko.net.

For about 4 hours now it has been the target of an apparent DDOS
attack; 4.5 MB/sec of DNS requests coming from a multitude of
spoofed source addresses of the form xxx.yyy.0.0:

22:07:46.226460 196.101.0.0.1003 > hastur.konoko.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 478281728:478281728(0) win 16384 (ttl 106, id 256, len 40)

22:07:46.226632 196.99.0.0.bridgecontrol > hastur.konoko.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 1677000704:1677000704(0) win 16384 (ttl 108, id 256, len 40)

22:07:46.227184 244.184.0.0.isis-am > hastur.konoko.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 413794304:413794304(0) win 16384 (ttl 107, id 256, len 40)

22:07:46.227251 196.32.0.0.jacobus-lm > hastur.konoko.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 691732480:691732480(0) win 16384 (ttl 103, id 256, len 40)

22:07:46.227427 44.109.0.0.qubes > hastur.konoko.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 1017249792:1017249792(0) win 16384 (ttl 109, id 256, len 40)

[ notice these 5 examples all happened within the same
two thousandthds of a second ]

This server does nothing but name service, and the bulk of its traffic
is for spamhaus.org. I don't know of any other reason why it would
be a target. Due to the spoofed source addresses, I'll likely never
know who the originator was.

I have asked Qwest (the colocation space provider) to put in a router
block for all traffic to 66.77.28.200. I cannot afford to pay for
this bandwidth, or to have the network this server is connected to
be completely saturated. Unless the perpetrator is found, I may have
to abandon my participation in the SpamHaus project.



--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Regarding website
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:45:46 EDT

In a message dated 4/15/03 8:58:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, haase@konoko.net
writes:


> hastur.konoko.net.domain:

I have to ask. Is this hastur Lovecraft's unspeakable one "The one that
shall not be named?"

QFM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Regarding website
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:24:03 -0500 (CDT)

Salave Senator Fabi,

> > hastur.konoko.net.domain:
>
> I have to ask. Is this hastur Lovecraft's unspeakable one "The one that
> shall not be named?"

Of course! When it comes to hostnames, I steal only from the great.

My servers (all names end in konoko.net):

nyarlathotep (FreeBSD) - mail, web, dns
hastur (Linux (SuSE)) - dns, experimental web sites

...and my home machines:

yog-sothoth (Linux (RH)) - router & backup repository
azathoth (Linux (RH)) - my primary desktop machine
shub-niggurath (windows xp)
dagon (windows 2000) - rarely used

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Tax Thanks
From:	The Author <cas_the_author@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:38:27 -0700 (PDT)

>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:42:17 US/Central
> From: labienus@novaroma.org
> Subject: Re: Taxes
>
> Salvete Atia omnesque
>
> > 1. May I pay for more than one year at a time
> (say 2 or 3 years)?
>
> Yes. If the tax rate changes in subsequent years,
> whatever balance you have
> will be credited to you. However, be advised that
> this is somewhat risky.
> Each year, everyone involved in taxation changes
> because all of the positions
> involved are elected. Therefore, it's possible that
> your advance payment might
> get lost in the shuffle, causing you some headaches
> down the road.
>

OK, good to know. One year at a time it is <G>.



>
> > I also need to have my email address officially
> changed.
>
> You can change your address from the Nova Roma site
> (though I can't seem to
> reach it this morning), or you can send the censores
> your new address directly
> at censors@novaroma.org.
>
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus
>
>
>

I changed my addy from the website AND informed the
censores AND webmaster last night. However there are
problems with the accounts of Maia Equitia Atia and
Titus Equitius Lapis. I cannot access them to change
the email addresses. I need the email addresses and
passwords to be the same as my own, so I can access
their accounts for them.

Thanks,
Pax,
SAA

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Regarding website
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:41:42 +0200

Salve Octavius,

While we are on the subject of your non-NR interests :-)

I was looking at your ghost website yesterday and scared the crap out of
myself. I kept getting cold chills and looking out of the corner of my eye
to see if anything was moving that wasn't supposed to. Of course, I kept
reading....

I'll tell you offlist about my family's ghost offlist if you'd like. Every
Sicilian family has one I think...

Vale!
Diana Moravia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Tax Thanks
From:	"julilla" <curatrix@villaivlilla.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:44:38 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, The Author <cas_the_author@y...>
scripsit:
>

>
> I changed my addy from the website AND informed the
> censores AND webmaster last night. However there are
> problems with the accounts of Maia Equitia Atia and
> Titus Equitius Lapis. I cannot access them to change
> the email addresses. I need the email addresses and
> passwords to be the same as my own, so I can access
> their accounts for them.
>
> Thanks,
> Pax,
> SAA

I updated your e-mail address in the "Priests and Priesthoods" page
just now. I can also update your children's records when I recieve
directions from the censors.

Bene vale!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna, scriba Curator Araneum et scriba
Censorem
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Factio Praesina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Anti-U.S.
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:38:18 -0400 (EDT)

Unfortunately I must disagree that Master Loos "has reched the bottom"
of his anti-U.S. tirade.

In very similar fashion to the arab news agencies around the the
Mid-East, anything that the U.S. does it will be seen, by him, in a
negative light:

--Freeing Iraq from the grip of a dictator -- Colonizing the Country /
stealing it's oil;

--Bringing food, water and medicine to one time enemies -- didn't happen
soon enough;

--Helping wounded enemy soldiers -- staging a untrue scene;

As in the above examples no matter what the U.S. does, there will be
those who will see and attack that part of the action which can be
questioned or in any way be suspect or criticized.

Master Loos is one NR Citizen whose messages I delete first as his
anti-U.S. feelings come through in nearly every one of his posts (Bagdad
Bob comes to mind). Since his views are often in error, (Much like
B.B.) I see no value in reading them.

In regard to some others on this list, who have provided detailed and
interesting infrmation for consideration, I am willing to listen to
thier comments even though they may not be flattering, but in the former
case, I anticipate no diminishing of the anti-U.S. word flow, and since
no information worthy of the name accompanies such feeling from Master
Loos, his comments for my part constitute a waste of my valuable time.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	RES: [Nova-Roma] NR website / CEREALIA
From:	"Titus Arminius Genialis" <tagenialis@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:03:49 -0300

Salvete quirites!

Despite this (amazing) bug with Nova Roma server, Cerealia website is still
running!!
And now it is finally up-to-date!
It has been updated everyday, so that it can follow what happens on the
mailing lists.
You will find at the site everything you need to know about goddess Ceres
and her festival, rules and results of Gladiator Combats (Munera), Chariot
Races and Literary Contest and the Event Texts, which are also being
published at Main List, as well as Prosepine Saga when it is finished.

So, visit it and enjoy Cerealia!
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/ludicerealia/

Valete bene.
May Ceres keep blessing us all.
________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@yahoo.com.br
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________
“CONCORDIA PARVÆ RES CRESCVNT,
DISCORDIA MAXIMÆ DILABVNTVR.”
— C. Salustius
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯





> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:haase@konoko.net]
> Enviada em: terça-feira, 15 de abril de 2003 12:57
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR website
>
>
>
> The server that houses novaroma.org was unreachable, or nearly
> unreachable,
> from about 7pm to 3am CDT last night as the result of a denial of service
> attack (also known as a "flood" or "SYN flood") against another host
> on the same network.
>
> Some criminal miscreant chose to attack my nameserver with a sustained
> load of 4.5 Mb/s (4.5 million bits per second) of bogus requests to
> connect. These made the network my servers are plugged into completely
> unuseable (so much so that we could not even connect in order to diagnose
> the problem from outside; I and another owner of servers there had to
> drive to the location of the equipment and attach a monitor to
> see what was happening).
>
> The reason for this is that my secondary nameserver - the victim of
> the attack - is a nameserver for a major anti-spam activity, the
> SpamHaus project. Thousands of mail servers worldwide connect to our
> nameservers each time they receive mail, in order to perform a database
> lookup and determine whether the sender is a known spammer.
>
> Apparently an angry spammer has decided to make spamhaus unuseable by
> taking down the nameservers with a spoofed DOS attack - meaning the
> addresses they use are forged and randomized to make blocking difficult.
> I received confirmation this morning that at least one other spamhaus
> nameserver had also been attacked.
>
> At its high point there were about 8000 of these bogus requests coming
> in per second, using an amount of bandwidth equivalent to three T1
> lines (72 regular phone lines).
>
> Finally, after three hours of repeatedly calling their help desk and
> waiting for them to escalate to the next group of engineers, they
> (the ISP) were able to block all traffic to the afflicted server,
> thereby allowing the rest of the network to regain the ability to use
> that connection.
>
> Given the difficulty involved in getting filters put into a router
> that I don't control, I'll likely be withdrawing as a spamhaus
> nameserver; I can't afford to let this happen again.
>
> [below is what I sent to an antispam mailing list habituated by
> sysadmins and activists: ]
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:19:37 -0500
> From: Matt Haase <haase@KONOKO.COM>
> To: SPAM-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Subject: denial of service attack against spamhaus.org nameserver
>
> I run one of the nameservers for spamhaus.org - ns2.konoko.net.
>
> For about 4 hours now it has been the target of an apparent DDOS
> attack; 4.5 MB/sec of DNS requests coming from a multitude of
> spoofed source addresses of the form xxx.yyy.0.0:
>
> 22:07:46.226460 196.101.0.0.1003 > hastur.konoko.net.domain: S
> [tcp sum ok] 478281728:478281728(0) win 16384 (ttl 106, id 256, len 40)
>
> 22:07:46.226632 196.99.0.0.bridgecontrol >
> hastur.konoko.net.domain: S [tcp sum ok] 1677000704:1677000704(0)
> win 16384 (ttl 108, id 256, len 40)
>
> 22:07:46.227184 244.184.0.0.isis-am > hastur.konoko.net.domain: S
> [tcp sum ok] 413794304:413794304(0) win 16384 (ttl 107, id 256, len 40)
>
> 22:07:46.227251 196.32.0.0.jacobus-lm > hastur.konoko.net.domain:
> S [tcp sum ok] 691732480:691732480(0) win 16384 (ttl 103, id 256, len 40)
>
> 22:07:46.227427 44.109.0.0.qubes > hastur.konoko.net.domain: S
> [tcp sum ok] 1017249792:1017249792(0) win 16384 (ttl 109, id 256, len 40)
>
> [ notice these 5 examples all happened within the same
> two thousandthds of a second ]
>
> This server does nothing but name service, and the bulk of its traffic
> is for spamhaus.org. I don't know of any other reason why it would
> be a target. Due to the spoofed source addresses, I'll likely never
> know who the originator was.
>
> I have asked Qwest (the colocation space provider) to put in a router
> block for all traffic to 66.77.28.200. I cannot afford to pay for
> this bandwidth, or to have the network this server is connected to
> be completely saturated. Unless the perpetrator is found, I may have
> to abandon my participation in the SpamHaus project.
>
>
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
> Censor, Consular, Citizen.
> http://konoko.net/~haase/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Mensagem recebida está livre de vírus.
> Recebida por GNBS através do MSO2K.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 17/3/2003
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Mensagem enviada está livre de vírus.
Enviada por GNBS através do MSO2K.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 17/3/2003

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Chariot Races Semi-final!
From:	"curiobritannicus" <Marcusaemiliusscaurus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:49:00 -0000

Salvete omnes,

The Semi-finals are here! After some excellent racing, we have nine
drivers left, all desperate for a place in the final! Some of these
drivers are almost heroes, well-known by the people. For others,
this is their first Ludi. But enough talk. On with the races!

******************************Race 1***********************

Name: Marcus Octavius Germanicus
factio: Albata
driver: Carolus Daemonicus
chariot: B.S.D. Liber
q/s tactic: hurry in last laps
fin tactic: pass closely the spina

Name: Titus Licinius Crassus
Factio: Veneta
Chariot: Orionis Draco
Driver: Equus Magnus
Quarters and Semi Strategy: (6)
Finals Strategy: (2)

Name: Sextus Arminius Remus
Factio: Russata
Driver: Remus
Chariot: Fulminatora
Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To support a constant pace
Tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals

Name:Lucius Quintius Constantius
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Polycrates.
Chariot: Confluat
Tactics for quarter/semi finals: To support a
constant pace.
Tactics for finals: Push rivals to wall of the
circus.

Once again we have one of every colour racing to defend the honour of
their factio. Each of the drivers experiences a moment of fear,
knowing that the many accidents littering the first round could
happen to them this time round. But there is no time to let the fear
increase, because the signal goes! Orionis Draco and B.S.D. Liber
race off, while Confluat and Fulminatora are content to keep a
constant speed behind them, waiting for their moment. And that
moment comes quickly. Orionis Draco makes a small miscalculation on
the second corner, and skids slightly. B.S.D. Liber has to swerve to
avoid hitting him, and Fulminatora and Confluat immediately lash
their horses, zooming past the blue and the white. B.S.D. Liber,
infuriated with Orionis Draco, moves past, and, with a burst of
speed, also passes Fulminatora and Confluat. Carolus Daemonicus, an
experienced driver, swerves just in front of Confluat, so that
Confluat has to drive round him. Unfortunately, Polycrates, the
driver of Confluat, doesn't see that Fulminatora is trying to pass
B.S.D. Liber, and so Confluat collides with Fulminatora. The two
unlucky chariots then crash into the walls of the circus, and look on
dejectedly as B.S.D. Liber and Orionis Draco take the qualifying
places.

1st: Accident!
2nd: Accident!
3rd: B.S.D. Liber
4th: Orionis Draco

Qualify for final: B.S.D. Liber and Orionis Draco.

**************************Race 2*******************

Name: Marcus Octavius Solaris
Factio: Albata
Driver: Damnator
Tactics in Quarters/Semis: lash the rivals (4)
Tactics in Final: push the rivals to the wall of the circus (5)

Name:Titus Arminius Volusius
Factio: Russata
Driver: Lepidus
Chariot: Velox
Tactics for the Quarter and Semifinals: To lash the rivals
His/her tactics for the Finals: To lash the rivals

Name: M.Tullius Philippicae
Factio: Albata
Chariot name: Alea Iacta Est
The name of your driver: Aurelius
Tactics for the quarter-finals: To hurry in the straight lines
Tactics for the semi-finals: To push the rivals to the wall of the
circus
Tactics for the finals: To hurry in the straight lines

Name: Marcus Minucius Audens
Factio: Praesina
Driver: Pugio
Name of Chariot:Green Flash
Tactics: Hurry in last laps

Name: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Factio: Albata
Driver: Draco Borealis
Chariot: Imperator Invictus
Tactics: To push the rivals to the wall of the circus (all rounds)

There are five chariots in this race, just to accommodate the army of
Albatas who qualified from the first round. Ranged against the three
whites are a Praesina and a Russata - will the Albatas force a
largely-Albata final, or will the Praesina and Russata stop them in
the semis? Alea Iacta Est and Velox take an early lead, with both
looking for the right chance to take the other out of the race.
Meanwhile, Damnator and Imperator Invictus are engaged in a similar
battle. Pugio, the only chariot not engaged in what some might
consider foul play, is in the middle, hoping that he'll be able to
pass the two in the lead. Suddenly, after just half a lap, Velox
succeeds in pushing Alea Iacta Est against the walls of the circus,
where the driver is thrown onto the sands. Is he alright? No, he
may have some nasty bruises tomorrow. However, he seems to have
escaped the path of the chariots. Meanwhile, Damnator, angered at
the loss of one of his white teammates, forcibly pushes a way past
Pugio and lashes Velox. The tough Lepidus, driver of Velox, endures
this, but falls a little behind Damnator. Maliciously, Damnator
whips the the horse on the right that's pulling Velox. Consequently,
this horse goes faster, turning Velox to the left, where the chariot
is soon thrown against the same walls that destroyed Alea Iacta Est.
Truly, we have a bloodthirsty set of drivers today, quirites!
However, with Damnator's attention focussed on finishing off the
unfortunate Velox, he soon falls behind the other two. Pugio, who
has been waiting for this opportunity, cruises ahead with little
trouble, and Imperator Invictus, slightly hurt at the way that
Damnator broke off their battle to join another melee, passes
Damnator also. And there! Pugio has driven across the finish line,
closely followed by Imperator Invictus.

1st: Accident!
2nd: Accident!
3rd: Pugio
4th: Imperator Invictus
5th: Damnator

Qualify for final: Pugio and Imperator Invictus.

We have our four finalists!
B.S.D. Liber (Albata)
Orionis Draco (Veneta)
Pugio (Praesina)
Imperator Invictus (Albata)

We have a final with two Albatas, a Veneta and a Praesina. Nothing
is left of the mighty Russata horde that entered the Ludi - better
luck next time! But for the other three colours, thousands of fans
will be cheering. Will the Albatas maintain their new-found
strength? Will the Praesinas regain the glory of last year? Will
the Venetas manage to stop either of them from winning? Watch the
final race of the Ludi on the 17th to find out!

Subject:	Re: RES: [Nova-Roma] NR website / CEREALIA
From:	"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:52:27 -0000

Salvete,

I want to public praise T. Arminius Genialis on the name of the
Aedilship by the WONDERFUL work he is doing making the Cerealia´s
website. You, Genialis, really is worthy of a CORONA RETIARIA by your
deeds.

I want also to praise the participants of the Literary Contest, ended
today subscriptions. Really, the judges will have some ´reading´ days
ahead! The works had an average of quality hard to see. It is a
honour and responsability handle them.



L. Arminius Faustus
Plebeian Aedile




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Arminius Genialis"
<tagenialis@y...> wrote:
> Salvete quirites!
>
> Despite this (amazing) bug with Nova Roma server, Cerealia website
is still
> running!!
> And now it is finally up-to-date!
> It has been updated everyday, so that it can follow what happens on
the
> mailing lists.
> You will find at the site everything you need to know about goddess
Ceres
> and her festival, rules and results of Gladiator Combats (Munera),
Chariot
> Races and Literary Contest and the Event Texts, which are also being
> published at Main List, as well as Prosepine Saga when it is
finished.
>
> So, visit it and enjoy Cerealia!
> http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/ludicerealia/
>
> Valete bene.
> May Ceres keep blessing us all.
> ________________________________________
> Titus Arminius Genialis
> Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
> Scriba Curatoris Differum
> Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
> Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae
>
> tagenialis@y...
> http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
> ICQ UIN: 75873373
> ________________________________________
> "CONCORDIA PARVÆ RES CRESCVNT,
> DISCORDIA MAXIMÆ DILABVNTVR."
> — C. Salustius
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Mock Elections: Computer simulation?
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:20:10 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular L.
Cornelius Sulla Felix, Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

My thanks to both of you for pointing out the write-in
option on the ballot, which I'd forgotten.

I have to admit I had been rather assuming that any
overhaul of the voting-system would remove this, since
it's unhistorical. At any rate I know that at least
one of the proposed systems (the one which I
personally prefer) does not contain a write-in option,
and would therefore be immune to this drawback.

So while it might not be possible, as I had hoped, to
avoid altogether having to mobilize the voting
populace in order to test the proposed systems, it
would be possible at least to reduce the number of
'live' tests required by computer-testing those which
have no write-in option.

>From this point of view it would be useful to hear
from Senator Sinicius Drusus whether in his proposed
system the write-in option would be removed for the
second vote (in which all but two candidates have been
eliminated) - I would assume this to be the case, or
it would rather reduce the usefulness of striking
candidates off the ballot.

Thanks again for your correction.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Tax Thanks
From:	"CAS" <cas_the_author@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:26:46 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "julilla" <curatrix@v...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, The Author <cas_the_author@y...>

>
> I updated your e-mail address in the "Priests and Priesthoods" page
> just now. I can also update your children's records when I recieve
> directions from the censors.
>
> Bene vale!
>
>Thanks a mil!!

Pax,
Atia

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Tarquitius Colonie (Formal Request for direction here folks!)
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:36:43 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to P. Tarquitius Rufus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.

> I wish to know if this Lex needs to go through the
> Tribunes of the
> Plebs and the Public vote, or through the Senate.
> Please feel free to
> post on this, as I am here to learn!

I'm sure one of our magistrates will answer you more
authoritatively than I can, but until then I'll try to
explain what I know.

The Senate can pass senatus consulta, which are a
fairly weak form of law and (in my view) not really
suitable for this sort of permanent and structural
measure. It is also true, however, that proposals
destined eventually to become leges are first put to
the Senate and passed as senatus consulta before being
put to one of the Comitia (Assemblies).

Only Consuls and Tribunes can propose items to the
Senate (although the Praetors can do so if the Consuls
are out of action), so in order to have anything
passed as a senatus consultum you would have to find a
Consul or Tribune willing to propose it to the Senate.
I would suggest that the best way to proceed would be
to e-mail them directly at tribunes @ novaroma . org
and consuls @ novaroma . org.

Proposals can also be made directly into leges by
putting them before either the Comitia Populi Tributa
or the Comitia Centuriata. Again, the only people who
can propose legislation to these are the Consuls and
the Tribunes, so these are the people you would need
to contact.

Since the people you need to contact are the same
whether the proposal goes through the Senate or not,
there is really no need for you to decide.

Finally, I would warn you that you might have to wait
a while before either the Consuls or the Tribunes are
able to deal with your proposal. I may be wrong - I'm
just guessing from what I've heard, which is that the
Tribunes are currently busy working on a solution to
the election problem, and the Consuls are (I think)
getting ready to put forward several important laws.
You have been very patient so far, and you may need to
be patient a bit longer. :)

I hope this is of some help.

Cordus

=====


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