Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"Decimus Marius Octavian .." <dansquiers@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:43:19 -0400

time and time again history has proved that force is the only way to make
progress . I challenge you to name one instance in which no force or threat
of force was used to achieve a real and lasting political goal. You claim to
love rome but rome loved her legions and it was a huge part of her culture.
You event have fake legions so if you have any hope of really achieving
statehood the only way is to fight for it.
" Please give us a country" won't cut it as much as i hate the PLO their
methods have brought the US and Israel to the Table. How do you think that
M. Collins achieved a free southern Ireland not by playing dress up and
having fake meetings with nothing to talk about but make-believe. Now i am
not saying start a revolution but if you did manage to become a state
peacefully(that is a BIG if)how would you defend your selves when the UN
fails so miserably. My friends Force and violence( or the threat of) are the
only authority which most of the world understands and the romans knew this
so how can you now ignore this when you say that you are a rebirth of rome.
I am not a violent man but i am not naive either and i know the world and
you seem to be a bunch of peace loving liberals who have no concept of what
it takes to keep a nation free. You will no doubt come up with all kinds of
clever remarks to help you discount my words but the truth lies within
yourselves and i can only hope and pray that you are right(as you would be
in a perfect world)but i unfortunately know that the truth is darker and is
rampant with evil that only force can turn back. Yes there are diplomatic
solutions and they should be used whenever possible but what happen when the
fox is in the hen house and he laughs at your diplomacy. Please do not fall
in to that trap because it is already to late once he is in the door.

DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA

>From: "M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
>
>Salvete!
>
>I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova Roma (in fact I'm also listed
>along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)), but this gentleman beats it
>all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally blew me off my socks! Sorry
>pal, but I think you need to go back to class... you have a wrong name.
>"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
>
>Valete...
>Solaris
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Sat, 19 Apr 2003 17:49:11 -0700

Avete Omnes,

Please do not feed the trolls.

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Decimus Marius Octavian ..
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend

time and time again history has proved that force is the only way to make
progress . I challenge you to name one instance in which no force or threat
of force was used to achieve a real and lasting political goal. You claim to
love rome but rome loved her legions and it was a huge part of her culture.
You event have fake legions so if you have any hope of really achieving
statehood the only way is to fight for it.
" Please give us a country" won't cut it as much as i hate the PLO their
methods have brought the US and Israel to the Table. How do you think that
M. Collins achieved a free southern Ireland not by playing dress up and
having fake meetings with nothing to talk about but make-believe. Now i am
not saying start a revolution but if you did manage to become a state
peacefully(that is a BIG if)how would you defend your selves when the UN
fails so miserably. My friends Force and violence( or the threat of) are the
only authority which most of the world understands and the romans knew this
so how can you now ignore this when you say that you are a rebirth of rome.
I am not a violent man but i am not naive either and i know the world and
you seem to be a bunch of peace loving liberals who have no concept of what
it takes to keep a nation free. You will no doubt come up with all kinds of
clever remarks to help you discount my words but the truth lies within
yourselves and i can only hope and pray that you are right(as you would be
in a perfect world)but i unfortunately know that the truth is darker and is
rampant with evil that only force can turn back. Yes there are diplomatic
solutions and they should be used whenever possible but what happen when the
fox is in the hen house and he laughs at your diplomacy. Please do not fall
in to that trap because it is already to late once he is in the door.

DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA

>From: "M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
>
>Salvete!
>
>I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova Roma (in fact I'm also listed
>along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)), but this gentleman beats it
>all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally blew me off my socks! Sorry
>pal, but I think you need to go back to class... you have a wrong name.
>"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
>
>Valete...
>Solaris
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:12:12 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites,

On the twentith of September 1870 CE, Roma became part
of the Kingdom of Italy. The Pope's temporal power was
thought to have come to an end. For the Next 59 years
no Pope left the Vatican, considering themselves
prisoners. This non violent display won them the state
of Vatican City, when the Laterian treaty was signed
in 1929 CE.

The Men who were Popes between 1870 and 1929 achived
what we are attempting to do without firing a single
shot, without drawing a single sword.

Ten Years ago this very day the violent path the
Branch Davidian sect embarked on came to a firey end
in Waco Texas, as fire engulfed thier compound killing
every man, woman, and child inside.

I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
Popes or David Koresh.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator

--- "Decimus Marius Octavian .."
<dansquiers@hotmail.com> wrote:
> time and time again history has proved that force is
> the only way to make
> progress . I challenge you to name one instance in
> which no force or threat
> of force was used to achieve a real and lasting
> political goal. You claim to
> love rome but rome loved her legions and it was a
> huge part of her culture.
> You event have fake legions so if you have any hope
> of really achieving
> statehood the only way is to fight for it.
> " Please give us a country" won't cut it as much as
> i hate the PLO their
> methods have brought the US and Israel to the Table.
> How do you think that
> M. Collins achieved a free southern Ireland not by
> playing dress up and
> having fake meetings with nothing to talk about but
> make-believe. Now i am
> not saying start a revolution but if you did manage
> to become a state
> peacefully(that is a BIG if)how would you defend
> your selves when the UN
> fails so miserably. My friends Force and violence(
> or the threat of) are the
> only authority which most of the world understands
> and the romans knew this
> so how can you now ignore this when you say that you
> are a rebirth of rome.
> I am not a violent man but i am not naive either and
> i know the world and
> you seem to be a bunch of peace loving liberals who
> have no concept of what
> it takes to keep a nation free. You will no doubt
> come up with all kinds of
> clever remarks to help you discount my words but the
> truth lies within
> yourselves and i can only hope and pray that you are
> right(as you would be
> in a perfect world)but i unfortunately know that the
> truth is darker and is
> rampant with evil that only force can turn back. Yes
> there are diplomatic
> solutions and they should be used whenever possible
> but what happen when the
> fox is in the hen house and he laughs at your
> diplomacy. Please do not fall
> in to that trap because it is already to late once
> he is in the door.
>
>
>
> DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
> PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "M. Octavius Solaris"
> <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
> >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
> >
> >Salvete!
> >
> >I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova Roma
> (in fact I'm also listed
> >along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)), but
> this gentleman beats it
> >all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally blew
> me off my socks! Sorry
> >pal, but I think you need to go back to class...
> you have a wrong name.
> >"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
> >
> >Valete...
> >Solaris
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months
> FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest No 548 Looting at the National Museum of Iraq
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:52:43 -0700 (PDT)

DrususI will ask my friend on monday and let you know. He has told me that the raid was botched because it was leaked to the press, namely the New York Times.It cost the lifes of a few of his friends and nearly his,but I'll get back to you later.Brutis

"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> wrote:Salve,

There is one thing I have wondered about the failed
effort to to rescue POWs in Viet Nam for some time.
The POWs were moved shortly before the raid. When John
Walker was arrested for selling Cryptological codes to
the USSR about a dozen years later it came out that
the USSR had these codes at the time of the raid. It's
possible that the KGB warned Hanoi about the raid and
that was the reason that the rescuers arrived at an
empty camp. I would love to find out if Walker was the
reason that raid failed.

--- "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus
> Thank you
> I just thought you might have been speaking about
> the
> POW snatch and grab OP. into Vietnam, that failed
> because of the News.
> A good friend of mine was almost killed trying to
> retrieve them.
> You have enlightened me to this Operation.
> G.P.Brutis
>
>
> --- Gregory Rose <gfr@intcon.net> wrote:
> > G. Iulius Scaurus G. Portico Bruti salutem dicit.
> >
> > Salve, G. Portice.
> >
> > I was not referring to POW's or MIA's. I was
> > referring to Special
> > Forces operators leading indigenous tribal
> militias
> > in Laos. I was an
> > staff intelligence officer who helped choose
> targets
> > and draft
> > portions of the operations orders for U.S. Army
> > personnel operating in
> > Laos. At the time it was interesting to note that
> > Nixon or Laird were
> > blarring on Armed Forces Radio the denials that we
> > had any personnel
> > in Laos while I typed ops orders directing the
> > officially non-existent
> > American troops to conduct operations in Laos
> > (where, of course, there
> > were no American forces). If they weren't in Laos
> > they wouldn't need
> > the detailed map coordinates on their orders (and
> I
> > vividly remember
> > the SPC-4 who went back to PVT when he mistyped
> > coordinates in an op
> > order that put a team four grid squares away from
> > their planned
> > insertion and onto an entirely different
> mapsheet).
> > And I've yet to
> > meet a Hmong who could speak American Black
> Dialect
> > English with a
> > deep Alabama drawl, peppered with obscenities
> > referring to members of
> > his local draft board -- so when I heard the call
> > over the radio at
> > the ops shack about "contact" and the "need to get
> a
> > mutterfuking
> > dustoff" with coordinates over the border about
> six
> > kilometers,
> > followed by comments about the sex lives,
> > preferences in dogs to
> > sodomize, etc., of leading citizens of Birmingham,
> I
> > assumed it was
> > SGT Ford, not one of his Hmong associates :-).
> >
> > Vale in pace Deorum.
> >
> > G. Iulius Scaurus
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:53:33 -0500 (CDT)

> I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
> Popes or David Koresh.

Well, the Popes certainly had better hats.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@usa.net>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 01:00:47 -0400

The popes had a hell of a lot more money than David Koresh, and the
support of millions of Catholics as well. Money and popularity
never hurt a cause.

-----Original Message-----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, 19 April, 2003 22:12
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend

Salvete Quirites,

On the twentith of September 1870 CE, Roma became part
of the Kingdom of Italy. The Pope's temporal power was
thought to have come to an end. For the Next 59 years
no Pope left the Vatican, considering themselves
prisoners. This non violent display won them the state
of Vatican City, when the Laterian treaty was signed
in 1929 CE.

The Men who were Popes between 1870 and 1929 achived
what we are attempting to do without firing a single
shot, without drawing a single sword.

Ten Years ago this very day the violent path the
Branch Davidian sect embarked on came to a firey end
in Waco Texas, as fire engulfed thier compound killing
every man, woman, and child inside.

I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
Popes or David Koresh.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Senator


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] End of the Cerealia 2756.
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Hadrianus=20Rutilius=20Bardulus?= <gens_rutilia@yahoo.es>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:56:27 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete omnes cives,

The Cerealia of this year has ended, citizens.

I wish to thank the efforts and excellent work of our Plebeian Aediles,
Lucius Arminius Faustus and Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, for
their superb organization of the sacred Ludi Cereris.

I also want to thank the support of the honorable Senator and Praetor
Gnaeus Salix Astur.

And, of course, many thanks to all the participants in the games and
the cultural contests.

May Ceres, Goddess of Plebeians, and Her daughter Proserpina, bless our
Res Publica for long years of welfare!

May also Concordia, Goddess of both Patricians and Plebeians, bless our
Res Publica for long years of peace!

Valete optime,

Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus
Flamen Cerealis Novae Romae

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Question re: Emperors and the Circus factions
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:48:50 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus L. Suetonio Nervae salutem dicit.

Salve, L. Suetoni.

There was a discussion of this issue on the BYZANS-L list several
years ago (1995-96?) the upshot of which was the conclusion that
Malalas' mention of Anastasius I's fondness for the reds is the only
literary reference of Byzantine imperial identification with circus
factions other than blue and green. I suspect that no one has ever
checked the Byzantine epigraphy to determine whether there are any
inscriptions which might be relevant (and that would be a massive
task, since to my knowledge there is no electronic database of
Byzantine inscriptions, and so much of Byzantine epigraphy has been
published in difficult-to-find Russian and eastern European journals),
since all the comments in the BYZANS-L discussion focused on literary
sources and I don't recall either of Cameron's books using
inscriptions much. The passage in Malalas is ambiguous in that the
phrase he used to describe the relationship was something like "took
pleasure in" or "played out around with" (I'm reasonably certain of
the translation, but can't remember the exact Greek and I don't have
the text of Malalas right at hand). I am not a Byzantinist, but I'd
hazard the guess that Malalas' language doesn't preclude Norwich from
being correct, either in the sense that he adopted the greens after an
involvement with the reds or that he enjoyed the reds but "officially"
patroned the greens. I would also be skeptical of Procopius'
treatment of imperial dealings with the greens and blues as he has a
very particular political agenda and it's difficult to trust him fully
as a source when he has his political axe out. I am also a bit
skeptical of Cameron's suggestion that the banning of the theatres led
to the drift of theatre factions to the hippodrome (it seems very much
a post hoc, ergo propter hoc argument to me). I wish I could give you
a better answer but this question stumped even the Byzantinists on the
BYZANS-L list.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Crucifixion in the Roman World
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:22:14 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Given the liturgical season for our Christian citizens, and given my
interest in Roman law and provincial administration, I thought it
might prove interesting to post a link to Joe Zias' essay on
"Crucifixion in Antiquity":

http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/crucifixion.html

Zias was curator of archaeology and anthropology at the Israel
Antiquities Authority for twenty-five years.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus


Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:24:57 +0200

Salve,

DMO:> I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
> Popes or David Koresh.

MOG:<< Well, the Popes certainly had better hats.

Jeez Octavius, I think I woke up the neighbors laughing over that !!

Speaking of Popes with better hats, I've just finished watching the Pope's
Easter service on Rai-Uno (Italian TV) just now. It was nice to see people
of so many different nationalities and skin colors standing next to
eachother in peace. As most people know, I am not a Christian, but I
couldn't help but feel the real spirit of good will today. If it is possible
for a million or so people to get along today at the Vatican, then it should
be possible for the entire world to do the same. And that would be without
force.

DMO: <you cannot achive anything without force and thats is why youall will
fail with Nova Roma.

Don't mistake kindness for weakness.

Vale,
Diana Moravia


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Concrete
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 05:10:21 -0700 (PDT)

Caesariensis
I'm sorry to bother you with that,I found the answer
for a guy at a archaeology site.
If you want to know the web site is....
http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeo1a.html

Prof. Joseph Davidovits is the one whom I was looking
for.
{ He's proposing that the pyramids and temples of Old
Kingdom Egypt were constructed using agglomerated
limestone,rather than quarried and hoisted blocks of
natural limestone. This type of fossil-shell limestone
concrete would have been cast or packed into molds.
Egyptian workmen went to outcrops of relatively soft
limestone,desaggregated it with water, then mixed the
muddy limestone (including the fossil-shells) with
lime and tecto-alumino-silicate-forming materials
(geosynthesis) such as kaolin clay, silt, and the
Egyptian salt natron (sodium carbonate). The limestone
mud was carried up by the bucketful and then poured,
packed or rammed into molds (made of wood, stone, clay
or brick) placed on the pyramid sides. This
re-agglomerated limestone, bonded by geochemical
reaction (called geopolymer cement), thus hardened
into resistant blocks. In 1979, at the second
International Congress of Egyptologists, Grenoble,
France, he presented two conferences. One set forth
the hypothesis that the pyramid blocks were cast as
concrete, instead of carved. Such a theory was greatly
disruptive to the orthodox theory with its hundreds of
thousand of workers taking part in this gigantic
endeavor. The second conference stressed that ancient
stone vases manufactured 5000 years ago by Egyptians
artists were
made of cast synthetic (man made) hard stone.

Just thought it was sometime we may want to check out.
Not that I'm into the Egyptian world but it is strange
to think that they could have been man made. I wonder
if Roma knew of this?

G.P.Brutis

--- me-in-@disguise.co.uk wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From : �G.Porticus Brutis� <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
> Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman Concrete
>
> >Thank you for the help in this.
> >I heard of a woman Egyptian archaeology who
> believes
> >that the Great Pyramids was built out of a formed
> >concrete.She said that it was lost to the
> world.Could
> >
> Of all the mysteries surrounding the GP (and what
> has happened about the Gantenbrink Hatch?) its
> material is not one: the GP is built mainly of
> granite, some of it bending under the strain, and
> Cairo is built mainly of the GP, at least its
> limestone casing which would have made it a beacon
> at midday.
> Vibius Ambrosius Caesariensis
>
>
> --
> Personalised email by http://another.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Crucifixion in the Roman World
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 05:32:08 -0700 (PDT)

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.
First I wish to tell you congratulations on your
position. You have brought to us some wonderful topics
to bicker and fight about...Really they have been very
thought provoking.
This one is right up there.The site has a nice photo
and states facts that I found most interesting...
Thanks and please keep it up.
G.P.Brutis

--- Gregory Rose <gfr@intcon.net> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.
>
> Avete, Quirites.
>
> Given the liturgical season for our Christian
> citizens, and given my
> interest in Roman law and provincial administration,
> I thought it
> might prove interesting to post a link to Joe Zias'
> essay on
> "Crucifixion in Antiquity":
>
> http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/crucifixion.html
>
> Zias was curator of archaeology and anthropology at
> the Israel
> Antiquities Authority for twenty-five years.
>
> Valete, Quirites.
>
> G. Iulius Scaurus
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend to trolls and weirdos
From:	"G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 06:16:38 -0700 (PDT)

Sulla
I tried to hold back,I tried to hold my tounge but
really you know me I just can't!......

Decimus Marius Octavian
Ok first off in this day and time popping up in some
country that your are not already in, will get you
nothing.
This is laughable!!!

What are we to rise up here in the US?
PLEASE Half of us NRoman's can't even agree on where
to place are land even if we had it, but you are
asking us to take over what???
France?Iraq? or HEY MAYBE WE"LL TAKE OVER MEXICO.....
YES!!!! THAT'S IT WE'LL TAKE OLD MEXICO,they should be
a push over.....

Do you see how dumb that is????
I agree with you that a strong army would be a good
Idea, however where are you going to get the people???
Most NRoman's are happy where they live and would
never move just to get smashed by the UN OR even the
US.

I'm not trying to brake you dreams here but you are
going about it the wrong way.....

I've got to say this crazy idea sounds more like
something I'd say....
PLEASE don't be like me, half the people here seethat
an e-mail is from me and run to the DELETE BUTTON.....
"HAHA go ahead laugh at the clown, At least I know
what I am"...LOL
JUST JOKING!!!

Really it would help if you where all together like
Ireland, than I could see it.
You have to take baby steps with NR and not push
people, that's the way people get burned out fast.

Remember ROMA was not built in a day!!!!

I thank you for a good try and getting us up on our
feet.Please feel free to stick around and find those
who would see your way, and by all means try to make
some friends. This is what some of us are here for,
and you get more fish with a worm, not a beer can "I
have tried".

G.Porticus Brutis

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] For Palatua (Pales) on the Parilia (21 April)
From:	Iulia Vopisca <iulia_uopisca@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 07:14:10 -0700 (PDT)

http://www.aztriad.com/palatua.html Linked above is a page with offering prayer and somewhat speculative text in honor of the Goddess Palatua, tutelary spirit of the Palatine Hill at Rome's ancient heart. If I am correct in identifying Her with Pales, then 21 April is indeed Her primary festival, known as the Parilia or Palilia.

PACEM VENIAMQVE DEORVM TIBI EXOPTET IVLIA VOPISCA

http://www.aztriad.com/cybeleix.html

* MATRIS DEVM MAGNAE IDEAEAE SACERDOS FILIAQVE *

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Modern Day Verres
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 08:59:45 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites,

Marcus Tullius Cicero wrote the following as part of
his prosecution of Gaius Verres,

"I COME now to what Verres himself calls his passion;
what his friends call his disease, his madness; what
the Sicilians call his rapine; what I am to call it, I
know not. I will state the whole affair to you, and do
you consider it according to its own importance and
not by the importance of its name. First of all, O
judges, suffer me to make you acquainted with the
description of this conduct of his; and then, perhaps,
you will not be very much puzzled to know by what name
to call it. I say that in all Sicily, in all that
wealthy and ancient province, that in that number of
town and families of such exceeding riches, there was
no silver vessel, no Corinthian or Delian plate, no
jewel or pearl, nothing made of gold or ivory, no
statue of marble or brass or ivory, no picture whether
painted or embroidered, that he did not seek out, that
he did not inspect, that, if he liked it, he did not
take away. I seem to be making a very extensive
charge; listen now to the manner in which I make it.
For I am not embracing everything in one charge for
the sake of making an impression, or of exaggerating
his guilt. When I say that he left nothing whatever of
the sort in the whole province, know that I am
speaking according to the strict meaning of the words,
and not in the spirit of an accuser. I will speak even
more plainly; I will say that he has left nothing in
anyone's house, nothing even in the towns, nothing in
public places, not even in the temples, nothing in the
possession of any Sicilian, nothing in the possession
of any Roman citizen; that he has left nothing, in
short, which either came before his eyes or was
suggested to his mind, whether private property or
public, or profane or sacred, in all Sicily."

The Spirit of Gaius Verres lives today among some
private collectors of antiquities, men who are only
intent on having some bauble to enhance thier
collection and who don't care how it was obtained.
Some of these "collectors" are very wealthy and can
afford to pay high prices to augment thier
collections.

As Time goes by it is becomming more apparent that
these collectors are the cause of the worst of the
thefts at the Museums in Iraq. That the common looters
were more intent on grabbing modern items like office
furniture and computers while a gang of organized
criminals were using the chaos to make off with the
cream of the collection at the Iraqi National Museum
in Baghdad and the Museum in Mosul.

This does not absolve US authorities for failing to
protect the Museums, but clearly guilt also has to
assigned to the Twenty First Century Verres who are
willing to purchase the antiquities and who may have
contracted the art thieves to steal from a shopping
list of the antiquities of Mesopotania.

The list of suspects can't be verry large. There can't
be more than a few dozen men in the world who have
both the wealth and the taste for an illegal
collection like this. These people need to suffer the
prosecutions that awaited Verres on his return from
Sicily, but without the chance to flee with any part
of thier ill gotten gains.

The Relics of antiquity don't belong to any one
person, or for that matter to any one nation. They are
the common heiratage of our civilazation, and the
theft of these items by any indiviual is stealing from
all of us. The "collectors" who are behind the looting
of the antiquities in Iraq, and the looting of sites
all over the world before they can be excuvated have
to be stopped. Hopefully the diaster in Baghdad will
serve as a wake up call that will end the world wide
theft of cultural relics that has been going on for
far too long.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Restoration of Ancient Rome
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:55:28 -0000

Salvete omnes,

In my opinion it would be possible to get the Roman Empire
resurected. It is significant and was an important start that Nova
Roma got going out of the US but think that once we have several
thousand citizens and supporters it would be a good idea to begin
building a new Rome out of the Eternal City of Rome.

It would be necessary to get Nova Roman people into municpal,
provincial and Federal politics and positions throughout Italy, then
Europe and America. We would need to recruit highly educated
political leaders, wealthy business people, economists etc from the
likes of "The Club Of Rome" who would have the same passion and
yearning for Ancient Rome as many of us do. As many of you know the
return of the Roman Empire has been predicted as a tool of an anti-
Christ etc. so it would be very important to dispell this myth or we
would have many enemies before we got to first base. The building of
such an empire could be gradually achieved through peaceful
revolution over time though people's interests, passions, interest in
politics and economics. It may even look like the car commerial on
TV last year showing a modern day Rome with a fun loving leader in
Laurels praising 2000 years of achievments. In a way Mussolini had
some insight starting a Roman restoration and may have been
successful if he had concentrated on modeling the society like
Ancient Rome, restoring her architecture splendor etc. rather than
taking on a conquistador approach and going to bed politcally with
the Nazis. His failure is a classic example of how taking things by
force does not work.

Now the idea of buying land somewhere for NR is a noble thought but I
fear that Nova Roma would never evolve and become more of a resort
set up like Club Atlantis in the Carribean, Disneyland or a Club Med
type set up.

No, for the above reasons a new Roman Empire should eventually evolve
and expand from the Eternal City, expand through Italy, Europe and
America as I illustrated.

Valete Bene,

Quintus Lanius


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Fw: [Explorator] Explorator 5.51
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:19:06 -0700

----- Original Message -----
From: David Meadows
To: explorator
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 6:58 AM
Subject: [Explorator] Explorator 5.51
================================================================
explorator 5.51 April 20, 2003
================================================================
Editor's note: Depending on your mail software, some urls may
wrap (especially those from the Telegraph) which will require
you to rebuild the url at your end; if you get a 'file not
found', check to see if the url wrapped on you. Most urls should
be active for at least eight hours from the time of publication.

For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
arrives otherwise!!!
================================================================
================================================================

Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Bill Kennedy, Hernan Astudillo, Mike Ruggeri,
Louis A. Okin, Steve Rankin, Yonatan Nadelman, 'fireflye', Leanne
Archer, W. Richard Frahm, Dave Sowdon, Mark Morgan, Joan Pasch, John
Hill, John McMahon, Michael Oberndorf, RM Howe, Donna Hurst, Joseph
Nicholas and John McChesney-Young for headses upses this week
(a.a.h.i.h.l.n.o.o.)

N.B.: Explorator passed a milestone some time list week when it
had it's 3,000th subscriber sign up! Thanks to all you subscribers
(new and old) for your support!

N.B. 2: I believe this is the largest Explorator ever sent out ...
it was certainly the one which took the longest to put together!

Happy Easter and/or Passover and/or any other cultural celebration
you may be celebrating this week!

================================================================
================================================================
AFRICA, EUROPE, AND ASIA
================================================================
As most folks know, the news from Iraq has been coming fast and
furious all week; it has also made it to a zillion newsgroups
and mailing lists already, so I'm sure most of you have seen much
of it. As such, to save you from wading through it all again -- it
is rather overwhelming -- I've put it all at the end of this week's
issue (not to be construed as a comment on its importance!).

The dating of the paintings in Chauvet Cave is being questioned:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993631

More on that dagger found in a lake in Germany:

http://portale.web.de/Wissenschaft/Archaeologie/?msg_id=2865561 (photo; German text)

A Bronze Age burial has been found in northern Portugal:

http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1349296,00.html

John Noble Wilford has penned a lengthy piece on the Etruscan thing
at UPenn:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/15/science/15ETRU.html

"Tests" suggest that, if nothing else, the James Ossuary is from
the right period:

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_771726.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0418_030418_jesusrelic.html
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F18%2Fwbox18.xml
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/page.cfm?objectid=12866174&method=full&siteid=89488&headline=DID%20BOX%20CONTAIN%20CHRIST'S%20BROTHER%3F

National Geographic has a piece on recent controversial finds from
Israel (guess!):

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0418_030418_bibleartifact.html

Archaeologists working near the Dead Sea have found some coins
dating to the Bar Kochba revolt:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2959289.stm
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/archives/2003/apr/18/041807795.html

The House of the Perfume Maker has reopened in Pompeii:

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=2570718
http://www.agi.it/english/news.pl?doc=200304121717-0168-RT1-CRO-0-NF11&page=0&id=agionline-eng.oggitalia

One of the Avebury stones is *realllllllllly* huge, it turns out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,939115,00.html
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=6001054

Wall paintings from the 13th century (?) have been painstakingly restored
in a church in London:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F17%2Fnmural17.xml
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,938247,00.html

Construction of a car dealership in Lincolnshire has revealed an
850 b.p. dragon head:

http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=57711&command=displayContent&sourceNode=57238&contentPK=5199872

The Newport Ship (now almost completely excavated) is causing
controversy:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F19%2Fnexca19.xml

Signs scratched on 8600 b.p. tortoise shells from China may be the
oldest writing ever found:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2956925.stm
http://web.latercera.cl/lt/Articulo/0,4293,3255_5726_29233964,00.html (Spanish)

They've (re)excavated some Shang Dynasty oracle bones in China:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200304/09/eng20030409_114849.shtml

China's 'top ten discoveries for 2002' list:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2003-04/13/content_829510.htm

The latest on the Ayodhya dig:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_232924,000900010004.htm

Excavations at Sanjan (India) are providing some insight into one of
the first Parsi settlements:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=43207293

A 300 b.p. lavatory in North York is at the center of a dispute:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,938281,00.html

================================================================
THE AMERICAS
================================================================
A Peruvian gourd is (for now) the oldest religious icon ever found in
the Americas:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993625
http://www.msnbc.com/news/899081.asp
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0417/p02s02-woam.html
http://web.latercera.cl/lt/Articulo/0,4293,3255_5726_29233929,00.html (Spanish)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=570&ncid=753&e=3&u=/nm/20030414/sc_nm/science_deity_dc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2947039.stm
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030414-024215-4448r
http://www.nature.com/nsu/030414/030414-4.html
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_16-4-2003_pg9_3

A recent survey in Chile has identified more than 50 potential sites:

http://web.latercera.cl/lt/Articulo/0,4293,3255_5666_29241941,00.html (Spanish)

The Telegraph has a piece on the Franklin Expedition:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F19%2Fnarc19.xml

A Hohokam site has been found in downtown (sort of) Phoenix:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=7746122&BRD=1817&PAG=461&dept_id=222077&rfi=6
================================================================
ALSO OF INTEREST
================================================================
On the DNA front, a certain type of cancer has been traced to
Viking genes:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,937480,00.html

There's a new dating technique for metal artifacts:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030415-120247-7512r

There must be several levels of irony in the fact that Britain's
Arts Ministrix has placed an export ban on the diaries of Claudius
Rich:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2955547.stm

Another side of the political side of archaeology in Israel (perhaps):

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=84192

All about the stuff they've done to make Hadrian's Wall into a
major tourist attraction:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,936299,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cumbria/2948843.stm

Patras (Greece) is getting a new museum:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/news/civ__3829488KathiLev&xml/&aspKath/civ.asp?fdate=16/04/2003

A nice piece on how the Venus de Milo was protected during WWI:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,938806,00.html

A new cancer centre in Cambridge will incorporate a cast of an Iron
Age pottery kiln in its construction:

http://w3.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/story.asp?StoryID=12920

The Met has acquired a pile of medieval ivories for the Cloisters:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/18/arts/design/18INSI.html

As might be expected in a postmodern world, Spinoza seems to be
gaining ground on Descartes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/19/arts/19EMOT.html

The New York Times has a touristy thing on St. Petersburg to mark
its tricentennial:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/20/travel/20stpete.html

Mersey is about to erect a giant statue of Neptune as a reflection
of its maritime heritage (very difficult to resist an editorial
comment on this one):

http://iccheshireonline.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/dailypost/page.cfm?objectid=12853663&method=full&siteid=50020&headline=Neptune%20rising

In a semi-related story, they've recreated the famous "Amber Room"
(another item still missing from WWII):

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F19%2Fwamber19.xml

Robert Ballard has received a huge grant to fund broadcasting of
sites from the Black Sea this summer:

http://www.newsday.com/technology/ats-ap_technology11apr19,0,5766259.story?coll=sns-technology-headlines
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030419_617.html
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/5672373.htm
================================================================
MAGAZINES AND JOURNALS
================================================================
There's a new issue of Archaeology out:

http://www.archaeology.org/magazine.php?page=curiss/index

[check out esp. http://www.archaeology.org/magazine.php?page=0305/etc/web which
is a nice piece on the Hall of Maat webboard, run by some friends
of Explorator]

.. and Archaeology Odyssey:

http://www.bib-arch.org/bswb_AO/indexAO.html

A new issue of Internet Archaeology:

http://intarch.ac.uk/journal/issue13/index.html

American Journal of Philology 124.1 (abstracts; full text for Muse)

http://www.press.jhu.edu/journals/american_journal_of_philology/toc/ajp124.1.html

Classical Journal 98.3 (TOCS only):

http://www4.infotrieve.com/journals/toc_email.asp?sid=677808&custID=95692&year=2003&volume=98&issue=3&date

Classical Quarterly 52.2 (TOCS only; full text for subscribers):

http://www3.oup.co.uk/clquaj/current/

Greece and Rome 50.1 (ditto):

http://www3.oup.co.uk/gromej/hdb/Volume_50/Issue_01/

Wired has a piece on Steve Booras and his efforts to make manuscripts
from Herculaneum more readable:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.05/vesuvius.html
================================================================
ON THE WEB
================================================================
The Survey and Excavation Projects in Egypt site has recently
gone up:

http://www.deltasinai.com/sepe-00.htm

Discovery.com has some nice biographies on some currently-digging
archaeologist types:

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/quest/projects/empereur.html (Jean-Yves Empereur)
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/quest/projects/fletcher.html (Joann Fletcher)
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/quest/projects/dobrev.html (Vassil Dobrev)
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/quest/projects/anderson.html (Julie Anderson)
================================================================
NEW ONLINE BOOKS
================================================================
Nikola Moushmov, *Ancient Coins of the Balkan Peninsula*:

http://www.ancientcoinart.com/moushmov.html

Mark Munn, *The Defense of Attica: The Dema Wall and the
Boiotian War of 378-375 B.C*:

http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft0q2n99ng/

Leslie MacCoull, *Dioscorus of Aphrodito: His Work and His World*

http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft0m3nb0cs/

Woodhouse's English-Greek Dictionary:

http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/efts/Woodhouse/
================================================================
CRIME BEAT
================================================================
An illegally-excavated hoard of Greek coins has been recovered:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/news/content.asp?aid=28772

Russian authorities are trying to curb the activities of the 'black
diggers', who are plundering Adriatica:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,936954,00.html
================================================================
AT ABOUT.COM
================================================================
Ancient History Guide N.S. Gill provides the background to that
whole Helen of Troy thing:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa011800a.htm
================================================================
BOOK REVIEWS
================================================================
Niall Ferguson, *Empire*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/18/books/18BOOK.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/20/books/review/20MACMILLT.html

David Liss, *The Coffee Trader* (Fiction):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/books/review/13MALLONT.html

Glyn Williams, *Voyages of Delusion: The Quest for the Northwest
Passage*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/books/review/13DORELT.html

Jon Kukla, *A Wilderness So Immense*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/books/review/13DUNNLT.html

Barry Unsworth, *The Songs of the Kings* (Fiction):

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2003/04/15/unsworth/index_np.html

Jai Sen, *The Golden Vine* ("alternate history" of Alexander the Great):

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2003/April/13/style/stories/05style.htm
================================================================
PERFORMANCES
================================================================
Heliogabalus:

http://tinyurl.com/9wjd

Iphigeneia at Aulis:

http://keystoneonline.com/story.asp?Art_id=595

Les Boreades:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/15/arts/music/15RAME.html
================================================================
EXHIBITIONS
================================================================
Transmitting the Forms of Divinity: Early Buddhist Art From
Korea and Japan (New York):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/18/arts/design/18SMIT.html
================================================================
CLASSICIST'S CORNER
================================================================
I'm not quite sure how to categorize this review of "Olympias,
Mother of Alexander the Great" (which may be a book or a drama
or both):

http://www.postnewspapers.com.au/20030419/impressions/books.shtml

As you're no doubt aware, a miniseries on Helen of Troy begins on
the USA Network tonight ... here's some reviews (personally I'm
not sure that face could launch a thousand ships ... a few, maybe,
but she appears a rather unHel(l)enic Helen to me!):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/19/arts/television/19MART.html
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2003-04-17-helen_x.htm
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~78~1321630,00.html

.. good quote from the actress herself in this one:

http://www.nynewsday.com/entertainment/nyc-helen17,0,3955184.story?coll=nyc-ent-short-navigation

Meanwhile, an actress has been chosen to play Helen in the upcoming
movie based on the Iliad (so ... was Helen blond?):

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=filmNews&storyID=2549041
http://www.zap2it.com/movies/news/story/0,1259,---16449,00.html
http://www.estoeshollywood.com/images/Noticias%20de%20portada/Diane%20Kruger.htm (with photo)

An interview with Christopher Logue (author of *All Day Permanent Red*):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/magazine/13QUESTIONS.html

A classics student is a murder suspect:

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1333312,00.html

An attempt to see parallels between Iraq and Alexander (this one's
difficult to read):

http://www.nynews.com/newsroom/042003/e01w20greeks.html

On 'trying to be relevant':

http://www.yaleherald.com/article.php?Article=2082

A summary of the upcoming sword and sandal flicks:

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~78~1321618,00.html

ClassCon in a piece on pulling down statues:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110003359

Nice coverage of a school's culminating activity for their Greek
unit (with a nice (old) pun in the headline):

http://www.townonline.com/amesbury/news/local_regional/an_feaanfeingold04172003.htm

An item on Ovid, with a (passing) tie-in to Iraq:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172713688.html

A virtual reconstruction of the Odeon of Pericles suggests it had
really bad sight lines:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2950661.stm
http://www.newsandevents.warwick.ac.uk/index.cfm?page=pressrelease&id=1003
http://www.nature.com/nsu/030414/030414-6.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,938396,00.html

Perfess'r Harris:

http://www.realchangenews.org/issue/current/classics/classics_corner.html

Peter Jones in the Spectator:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-04-19&id=3020

Akropolis News in Classical Greek:
http://www.akwn.net/

Radio Finland's Nuntii Latini
http://www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/trans.html

Radio Bremen's Der Monatsr�ckblick - auf Latein
http://www.radiobremen.de/online/latein/

U.S. Weather in Latin:
http://latin.wunderground.com/

================================================================
REPEATS
================================================================
Israel in David and Solomon's Time:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/04/11/MN24970.DTL

Oldest Mummification:

http://www.cp.org/english/online/full/science/030407/g040710A.html

Plato Languishing in the Basement:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/04/13/BA248482.DTL
================================================================
PLUNDERING IN IRAQ
================================================================
It begins with 'general' stuff -- plundering of museum and burning of
the Islamic library:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=396743
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,937094,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/international/worldspecial/13ARTI.html (John Noble Wilford)
http://wcbs880.com/siteSearch/terror_story_105213143.html
http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1232029 (audio)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47963-2003Apr17.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2942449.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-War-Plundered-Treasures-Glance.html
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-War-Plundered-Treasures.html
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-iraq-baghdad-museum.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/15/otsc.irq.clancy/
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/international/worldspecial/16BAGH.html
http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/local_regional/ap_museumlooting04132003.htm

.. then we hear that the "House of Wisdom", which housed much
of Ottoman interest (among other things) was also a
victim:

http://hnn.us/articles/1397.html

.. and the possible loss of the 'Sippar Library' (cuneiform texts):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48178-2003Apr17.html

The Museum at Mosul received comparatively scant coverage:

http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationworld/bal-te.north18apr18,0,3172404.story?coll=bal-news-nation

The Art Newspaper has put up a database of sorts with images of some
300 items which were lost:

http://81.112.115.148/allemandi/TAN/news/article.asp?idart=10986

There's plenty of "scholars told you so" type coverage:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/lastword/story/0,13228,937963,00.html (by McGuire Gibson)
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/04/17/build/war/32-robbed.inc
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/899932.asp
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/international/worldspecial/16MUSE.html
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/634/sc11.htm
http://www.fox23news.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=DDD45E02-E91C-4C24-BE43-904F50141BCD
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/5650160.htm
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2568306

.. and more doubts/suspicions being raised about the AACP:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-04-19&id=3011

There are suggestions that some looters 'knew what they were looking
for' and/or 'were hired' and/or were part of an 'inside job':

http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1236055 (audio)
http://www.msnbc.com/news/902234.asp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47721-2003Apr17.html
http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_MUSEUMS?SITE=NYNYP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/content/news/ap/ap_story.html/Intl/AP.V7380.AP-Iraq-Museums.html
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1050623363348_5/?hub=SpecialEvent3
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-8/1050579323193090.xml

A number of cultural policy advisors have resigned to protest
the lack of immediate reponse to the looting of the museum:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42416-2003Apr16.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2958533.stm
http://wcbs880.com/siteSearch/terror_story_107220146.html

.. and, of course, there were a spate of opinion pieces:

http://wcbs880.com/siteSearch/osgood_story_108100249.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/19/opinion/L19MUSE.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/opinion/16DOWD.html
http://slate.msn.com/id/2081647/ (good photos)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,936216,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/opinion/17FOST.html (written by an Assyriologist)
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/opinion/17LOWE.html
http://www.haveeru.com.mv/english/news_show.phtml?id=1291&search=&find=
http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110003368

The U.S. has promised to help recover stolen objects:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2947251.stm

Universities and other organizations are offering help in identifying
what was taken:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq-Museums-Penn.html (UPenn)
http://www.msnbc.com/news/900550.asp (BM)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-647085,00.html (BM)
http://www.chicagomaroon.com/news/421200.html?mkey=242404 (OI)
http://www-news.uchicago.edu/citations/03/030415.gibson-ct.html (OI)
http://www.uk.sis.gov.eg/online/html9/o190423m.htm (SCA)
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/arts/16ARTS.html (UNESCO)
http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=17567 (various)

There are also hints that some items were actually hidden away
prior to the fall of Baghdad (and so not stolen?):

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB105053292455773900.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/international/worldspecial/17MUSE.html

There were further calls late in the week for more protection of
cultural monuments in Iraq:

http://tinyurl.com/9wj0
http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=17621

And pleas for museums not to purchase any:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/16/international/worldspecial/16ANTI.html

Some items are being recovered already:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq-Paintings.html
http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/N2724.carpoint/B1146712.23;sz=300x250;ord=22057?

.. while others appear to have already appeared up for sale (am I
reading that correctly?):

http://irak.figaro.net/enjeux/20030418.FIG0822.html (French)
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=1765645

Photos (from a message I sent to the ANE list):

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030414/241/3t0a6.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030414/241/3t0a5.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030414/241/3t0a7.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030413/241/3sl7q.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030413/170/3sh2s.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030412/168/3s32g.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030412/168/3s2ss.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030412/168/3s2tm.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030410/168/3reai.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030409/241/3qxd0.html (tikrit)

The Washington Post has a nice flash slideshow, but it's kind of difficult to get to ... go to:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/world/

then, in the 'War in Iraq' section, click on "in depth" ... a new window
will open; click on the 'Enter' after "Museum and Offices Plundered" ...
the first five or six are appropriate and rather nice pieces of photojournalism ...

Other items:

http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1231007 (NPR interview with McGuire Gibson)
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/article.asp?idart=10985 (Q and A)

Francis Deblauwe's Iraq War and Archaeology site:

http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/fdeblauwe/iraq.html

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	John Walzer <jwalzer5@comcast.net>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:27:26 -0400

The problem with the Vatican is that it assumes it has all the answers. Can anyone reconcile the Vatican's claim to be God's spokesman with the criminal antics of cretinous popes, such as Alexander VI, Paul IV, John XII, or Pius V (a former grand insquisitor)? Where was God when these representatives of Holy Mother Church were mocking the institution they claimed to represent? Papal history is a pretty miserable indicator of merit. People who cavalierly quote papal history should read more books on the subject.
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 7:24 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend

Salve,

DMO:> I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
> Popes or David Koresh.

MOG:<< Well, the Popes certainly had better hats.

Jeez Octavius, I think I woke up the neighbors laughing over that !!

Speaking of Popes with better hats, I've just finished watching the Pope's
Easter service on Rai-Uno (Italian TV) just now. It was nice to see people
of so many different nationalities and skin colors standing next to
eachother in peace. As most people know, I am not a Christian, but I
couldn't help but feel the real spirit of good will today. If it is possible
for a million or so people to get along today at the Vatican, then it should
be possible for the entire world to do the same. And that would be without
force.

DMO: <you cannot achive anything without force and thats is why youall will
fail with Nova Roma.

Don't mistake kindness for weakness.

Vale,
Diana Moravia


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] I wish to be removed as a member of Nova Roma
From:	"biojournalism" <biojournalism@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:46:44 -0000

I wish to be removed as a member of Nova Roma. I've paid taxes for
this year, so please use it as my donation/contribution to your
wonderful group. Please take me off as a member. I need to have this
message forwarded to the correct person. The reason is I am nearly
blind and use a screen reader (audio). It is too difficult for me to
surf the Web for all the clubs I belong to. At the moment I can't
find the correct email address to send this to in order to be
removed from the group.

I am cutting down on various organizations as I won't be able to
participate online and am going offline most of the time, except for
email. I really love your group and what it's doing in the field of
education as I'm a devout ancient history buff. My favorite ancient
history fiction author is Steven Saylor and I listen to his audio
books frequently and enjoy the authentic detailed historical
research and great metaphors. So I want to say bye bye to you all
from Octavia in San Francisco.

You can browse my historical novel about ancient Rome by clicking on
my Web site: http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com

Bye Bye

Octavia Fabia Scriba


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Concrete
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 21:40:25 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : �G.Porticus Brutis� <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
Subject : Re: [Nova-Roma] Concrete
Caesariensis
>I'm sorry to bother you with that,I found the answer
>for a guy at a archaeology site.
>If you want to know the web site is....
>http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeo1a.html
>
Interesting isn't it? From the way they describe it, the casing could well be manufactured then because it's a case of taking the stone apart and putting it back together again with no substantial change to ingredients. It would certainly help to get the casing regular.

Caesariensis

--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] CEREALIA LITERARY CONTEST
From:	"Titus Arminius Genialis" <tagenialis@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 17:51:11 -0300

Salvete quirites!

Cerealia week has finished. However, as you already know, the Ludi hasn't
yet.
You can still read the 9 great competitor texts of Literary Contest at
Cerealia website, as well as much information about Ceres.
If you are an official judge of the event, go to Cerealia website to read
the texts, and don't forget that you must sent the results to
lafaustus@yahoo.com.br by April 22nd!!
If you are not a judge, you can read the texts and discuss about them at
Main List.
Anyway, visit Cerealia website and have a lot of fun!

Either visit Cerealia website: http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/ludicerealia
and see everything

or go directly to the texts at
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/ludicerealia/contest/texts.html.

Valete bene.
________________________________________
Titus Arminius Genialis
Accensus Junior Petitor Cohortis Consulis CFQ
Scriba Retiarius Ludorum Cerealiae 2756
Scriba Curatoris Differum
Scriba Retiarius Provinciae Brasiliae
Apparitor Salutis Publicae Templi Concordiae

tagenialis@yahoo.com.br
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/tagenialis
ICQ UIN: 75873373
________________________________________
�CONCORDIA PARV� RES CRESCVNT,
DISCORDIA MAXIM� DILABVNTVR.�
� C. Salustius
��

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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	ames0826@cs.com
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 02:26:49 EDT

I think that comparing David Koreish to any post-renaissance pope is like
comparing a reasonably sound orange to a very rotton apple. The recent popes
have certainly not been perfect, but they didn't use sex and drugs to
maintain a hypnotic hold over their followers (well, unless you count
communion wine as a drug). Anyway, my point is that there doesn't seem to be
any rational basis for comparison.


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: I wish to be removed as a member of Nova Roma
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 22:23:05 -0000

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Octavia.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "biojournalism"
<biojournalism@h...> wrote:
> I wish to be removed as a member of Nova Roma. I've paid taxes for
> this year, so please use it as my donation/contribution to your
> wonderful group. Please take me off as a member. I need to have
> this message forwarded to the correct person. The reason is I am
> nearly blind and use a screen reader (audio). It is too difficult
> for me to surf the Web for all the clubs I belong to. At the moment
> I can't find the correct email address to send this to in order to
> be removed from the group.
>
> I am cutting down on various organizations as I won't be able to
> participate online and am going offline most of the time, except
> for email. I really love your group and what it's doing in the
> field of education as I'm a devout ancient history buff. My
> favorite ancient history fiction author is Steven Saylor and I
> listen to his audio books frequently and enjoy the authentic
> detailed historical research and great metaphors. So I want to say
> bye bye to you all from Octavia in San Francisco.
>
> You can browse my historical novel about ancient Rome by clicking
> on my Web site: http://reminiscencemedia.tripod.com
>
> Bye Bye
>
> Octavia Fabia Scriba

I don't know if this message will get to you, but I just wanted to
say that I am really, really sorry to see you go. In the last few
months you have shared your great enthusiasm with us, and it has been
a wonderful experience.

I hope that either your vision will improve in the future or, should
that be impossible, you will have access to better technology to
overcome that terrible ailment. Please be strong and do not give up;
you have much to give to the world.

I will pray to Aesculapius in your name. May He, who has done such
things in the past, cure you. I will offer Him wheat and honey if He
does.

CN�SALIX�ASTVR�T�F�A�NEP�TRIB�OVF


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Palilia
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 22:28:38 -0000

Salvete Quirites.

Perhaps it is still a little early for most of you, but in my side of
the world we already are on April the 21st. So let me be the first
one to wish you all a merry Palilia.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEAR ROME!

:-).

CN�SALIX�ASTVR�T�F�A�NEP�TRIB�OVF


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend to trolls and weirdos
From:	"Decimus Marius Octavian .." <dansquiers@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 12:09:40 -0400

you have no vision

DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA

>From: "G.Porticus Brutis" <celtic4usa@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend to trolls and weirdos
>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 06:16:38 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Sulla
>I tried to hold back,I tried to hold my tounge but
>really you know me I just can't!......
>
>
>Decimus Marius Octavian
>Ok first off in this day and time popping up in some
>country that your are not already in, will get you
>nothing.
>This is laughable!!!
>
>What are we to rise up here in the US?
>PLEASE Half of us NRoman's can't even agree on where
>to place are land even if we had it, but you are
>asking us to take over what???
>France?Iraq? or HEY MAYBE WE"LL TAKE OVER MEXICO.....
>YES!!!! THAT'S IT WE'LL TAKE OLD MEXICO,they should be
>a push over.....
>
>Do you see how dumb that is????
>I agree with you that a strong army would be a good
>Idea, however where are you going to get the people???
>Most NRoman's are happy where they live and would
>never move just to get smashed by the UN OR even the
>US.
>
>I'm not trying to brake you dreams here but you are
>going about it the wrong way.....
>
>I've got to say this crazy idea sounds more like
>something I'd say....
>PLEASE don't be like me, half the people here seethat
>an e-mail is from me and run to the DELETE BUTTON.....
>"HAHA go ahead laugh at the clown, At least I know
>what I am"...LOL
>JUST JOKING!!!
>
>Really it would help if you where all together like
>Ireland, than I could see it.
>You have to take baby steps with NR and not push
>people, that's the way people get burned out fast.
>
>Remember ROMA was not built in a day!!!!
>
>I thank you for a good try and getting us up on our
>feet.Please feel free to stick around and find those
>who would see your way, and by all means try to make
>some friends. This is what some of us are here for,
>and you get more fish with a worm, not a beer can "I
>have tried".
>
>G.Porticus Brutis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
>http://search.yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"Decimus Marius Octavian .." <dansquiers@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 12:16:30 -0400

i am not some wack job who wants to buitl a compound and stupidly fight the
US. i am a realist and you are not the pope nor are you the roman church. If
what you want is the vatican then i am sorry i would want nothing to do with
this because i see rome as a world power again anything less would be an
insult to the romans and their culture.

DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA

>From: "Christopher L. Wood" <xwood@usa.net>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 01:00:47 -0400
>
>The popes had a hell of a lot more money than David Koresh, and the
>support of millions of Catholics as well. Money and popularity
>never hurt a cause.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: L. Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@yahoo.com]
>Sent: Saturday, 19 April, 2003 22:12
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>
>
>Salvete Quirites,
>
>On the twentith of September 1870 CE, Roma became part
>of the Kingdom of Italy. The Pope's temporal power was
>thought to have come to an end. For the Next 59 years
>no Pope left the Vatican, considering themselves
>prisoners. This non violent display won them the state
>of Vatican City, when the Laterian treaty was signed
>in 1929 CE.
>
>The Men who were Popes between 1870 and 1929 achived
>what we are attempting to do without firing a single
>shot, without drawing a single sword.
>
>Ten Years ago this very day the violent path the
>Branch Davidian sect embarked on came to a firey end
>in Waco Texas, as fire engulfed thier compound killing
>every man, woman, and child inside.
>
>I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
>Popes or David Koresh.
>
>L. Sicinius Drusus
>Senator
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"Decimus Marius Octavian .." <dansquiers@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 12:24:03 -0400

the vatican is built around a religion and the religion and respect for the
pope is what lead to the vatican. I think the neither is smarter the pope is
living a dream where he is the only infalable human on matters of falth and
thinks that he is the vicor of christ on earth , no where in the bible is
this written. David Koresh was a mad man who thought he was christ. I am
christian but i find nothing worth copying about either.

DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA

>From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Salvete Quirites,
>
>On the twentith of September 1870 CE, Roma became part
>of the Kingdom of Italy. The Pope's temporal power was
>thought to have come to an end. For the Next 59 years
>no Pope left the Vatican, considering themselves
>prisoners. This non violent display won them the state
>of Vatican City, when the Laterian treaty was signed
>in 1929 CE.
>
>The Men who were Popes between 1870 and 1929 achived
>what we are attempting to do without firing a single
>shot, without drawing a single sword.
>
>Ten Years ago this very day the violent path the
>Branch Davidian sect embarked on came to a firey end
>in Waco Texas, as fire engulfed thier compound killing
>every man, woman, and child inside.
>
>I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
>Popes or David Koresh.
>
>L. Sicinius Drusus
>Senator
>
>
>--- "Decimus Marius Octavian .."
><dansquiers@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > time and time again history has proved that force is
> > the only way to make
> > progress . I challenge you to name one instance in
> > which no force or threat
> > of force was used to achieve a real and lasting
> > political goal. You claim to
> > love rome but rome loved her legions and it was a
> > huge part of her culture.
> > You event have fake legions so if you have any hope
> > of really achieving
> > statehood the only way is to fight for it.
> > " Please give us a country" won't cut it as much as
> > i hate the PLO their
> > methods have brought the US and Israel to the Table.
> > How do you think that
> > M. Collins achieved a free southern Ireland not by
> > playing dress up and
> > having fake meetings with nothing to talk about but
> > make-believe. Now i am
> > not saying start a revolution but if you did manage
> > to become a state
> > peacefully(that is a BIG if)how would you defend
> > your selves when the UN
> > fails so miserably. My friends Force and violence(
> > or the threat of) are the
> > only authority which most of the world understands
> > and the romans knew this
> > so how can you now ignore this when you say that you
> > are a rebirth of rome.
> > I am not a violent man but i am not naive either and
> > i know the world and
> > you seem to be a bunch of peace loving liberals who
> > have no concept of what
> > it takes to keep a nation free. You will no doubt
> > come up with all kinds of
> > clever remarks to help you discount my words but the
> > truth lies within
> > yourselves and i can only hope and pray that you are
> > right(as you would be
> > in a perfect world)but i unfortunately know that the
> > truth is darker and is
> > rampant with evil that only force can turn back. Yes
> > there are diplomatic
> > solutions and they should be used whenever possible
> > but what happen when the
> > fox is in the hen house and he laughs at your
> > diplomacy. Please do not fall
> > in to that trap because it is already to late once
> > he is in the door.
> >
> >
> >
> > DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
> > PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "M. Octavius Solaris"
> > <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
> > >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
> > >
> > >Salvete!
> > >
> > >I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova Roma
> > (in fact I'm also listed
> > >along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)), but
> > this gentleman beats it
> > >all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally blew
> > me off my socks! Sorry
> > >pal, but I think you need to go back to class...
> > you have a wrong name.
> > >"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
> > >
> > >Valete...
> > >Solaris
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Restoration of Ancient Rome
From:	"Decimus Marius Octavian .." <dansquiers@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:49:44 -0400

That sounds like the National Socialist Party of the 1930s.

DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA

>From: "Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Restoration of Ancient Rome
>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:55:28 -0000
>
>Salvete omnes,
>
>In my opinion it would be possible to get the Roman Empire
>resurected. It is significant and was an important start that Nova
>Roma got going out of the US but think that once we have several
>thousand citizens and supporters it would be a good idea to begin
>building a new Rome out of the Eternal City of Rome.
>
>It would be necessary to get Nova Roman people into municpal,
>provincial and Federal politics and positions throughout Italy, then
>Europe and America. We would need to recruit highly educated
>political leaders, wealthy business people, economists etc from the
>likes of "The Club Of Rome" who would have the same passion and
>yearning for Ancient Rome as many of us do. As many of you know the
>return of the Roman Empire has been predicted as a tool of an anti-
>Christ etc. so it would be very important to dispell this myth or we
>would have many enemies before we got to first base. The building of
>such an empire could be gradually achieved through peaceful
>revolution over time though people's interests, passions, interest in
>politics and economics. It may even look like the car commerial on
>TV last year showing a modern day Rome with a fun loving leader in
>Laurels praising 2000 years of achievments. In a way Mussolini had
>some insight starting a Roman restoration and may have been
>successful if he had concentrated on modeling the society like
>Ancient Rome, restoring her architecture splendor etc. rather than
>taking on a conquistador approach and going to bed politcally with
>the Nazis. His failure is a classic example of how taking things by
>force does not work.
>
>Now the idea of buying land somewhere for NR is a noble thought but I
>fear that Nova Roma would never evolve and become more of a resort
>set up like Club Atlantis in the Carribean, Disneyland or a Club Med
>type set up.
>
>No, for the above reasons a new Roman Empire should eventually evolve
>and expand from the Eternal City, expand through Italy, Europe and
>America as I illustrated.
>
>Valete Bene,
>
>Quintus Lanius
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"Decimus Marius Octavian .." <dansquiers@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:07:13 -0400

i agree

DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA

>From: John Walzer <jwalzer5@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:27:26 -0400
>
>The problem with the Vatican is that it assumes it has all the answers.
>Can anyone reconcile the Vatican's claim to be God's spokesman with the
>criminal antics of cretinous popes, such as Alexander VI, Paul IV, John
>XII, or Pius V (a former grand insquisitor)? Where was God when these
>representatives of Holy Mother Church were mocking the institution they
>claimed to represent? Papal history is a pretty miserable indicator of
>merit. People who cavalierly quote papal history should read more books on
>the subject.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diana Moravia Aventina
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 7:24 AM
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
>
>
> Salve,
>
> DMO:> I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
> > Popes or David Koresh.
>
> MOG:<< Well, the Popes certainly had better hats.
>
> Jeez Octavius, I think I woke up the neighbors laughing over that !!
>
> Speaking of Popes with better hats, I've just finished watching the
>Pope's
> Easter service on Rai-Uno (Italian TV) just now. It was nice to see
>people
> of so many different nationalities and skin colors standing next to
> eachother in peace. As most people know, I am not a Christian, but I
> couldn't help but feel the real spirit of good will today. If it is
>possible
> for a million or so people to get along today at the Vatican, then it
>should
> be possible for the entire world to do the same. And that would be
>without
> force.
>
> DMO: <you cannot achive anything without force and thats is why youall
>will
> fail with Nova Roma.
>
> Don't mistake kindness for weakness.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Moravia
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:49:10 EDT

In a message dated 4/20/2003 6:40:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dansquiers@hotmail.com writes:

> the vatican is built around a religion and the religion and respect for the
> pope is what lead to the vatican. I think the neither is smarter the pope
> is
> living a dream where he is the only infalable human on matters of falth and
>
> thinks that he is the vicor of christ on earth , no where in the bible is
> this written. David Koresh was a mad man who thought he was christ. I am
> christian but i find nothing worth copying about either.

I know this will sound rude, but your posts make absolutely no sense to me.

G. Modius Athanasius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Concrete
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 22:55:39 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus G. Portico Bruti salutem dicit.

Salve, G. Portice.

The Davidovits-Morris theory that the Giza pyramids were constructed
from cast-in-place concrete blocks, _The Pyramids - An Engima Solved_
(NY, 1988), rather than quarried blocks of natural limestone has been
thoroughly discredited by both geologists and Egyptologists; for
details see: R.L. Folk and D.H. Campbell, "Are the pyramids built of
poured concrete blocks?," _Journal of Geological Education_ 40 (1992),
25-34; and J.A. Harrell and B.E. Penrod, "The great pyramid debate -
evidence from the Lauer sample," _Journal of Geological Education_ 41
(1993), 358-363.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:22:24 -0700 (PDT)

--- ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> I think that comparing David Koreish to any
> post-renaissance pope is like
> comparing a reasonably sound orange to a very rotton
> apple. The recent popes
> have certainly not been perfect, but they didn't use
> sex and drugs to
> maintain a hypnotic hold over their followers (well,
> unless you count
> communion wine as a drug). Anyway, my point is that
> there doesn't seem to be
> any rational basis for comparison.
>

I Made ZERO Comparisions between the theology of the
two, a subject that dosen't concern me in the least. I
Compared the way they attempted to meet thier
political goals. The Popes were realistic, The
Davidians were fools. The Popes achived a political
goal that is similar to Nova Roma's goal of aquiring a
forum as the focal point of Roman Culture and the
Religio. The Davidians resorted to force to achive
thier goals, even though they were hopelessly
outgunned and they died for thier foolishness.

Today's political climate is not forgiving to small
groups that advocate achiving thier goals by force. It
is a suicidal path that leads to death or prison. Even
Prior to the Terrorist attacks of 2001 Nova Roma was
investigated by the FBI. Todays reality is far harsher
than it was when some comments in the back alley led
to the FBI checking out Nova Roma.

=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New file uploaded to Nova-Roma
From:	Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date:	20 Apr 2003 23:24:40 -0000

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Nova-Roma
group.

File : /ROMANEMPIRE.ZIP
Uploaded by : Iclovis <cloviscathmor@earthlink.net>
Description : Roman Empire Theme for Windows 98

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/ROMANEMPIRE.ZIP

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

Iclovis <cloviscathmor@earthlink.net>


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Moderation Notice
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 23:47:59 -0000

Salvete Quirites.

This is to announce that I have decided to moderate a message
from "Decimus Marius Octavian" ( dansquiers@hotmail.com ) because of
its explicitly insulting content.

I am forwarding the original message to the tribuni plebis so they
can issue an intercessio against this decision if that is their wish.
Should that happen, I will post the original message to this forum.

Should anyone feel mistreated by this decision, he is invited to
contact the tribuni plebis at tribunes@novaroma.org to express his
petition.

CN�SALIX�ASTVR�T�F�A�NEP�TRIB�OVF
PRAETOR


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 20 Apr 2003 16:51:13 -0700 (PDT)

Nova Roma is also built around a religion, the Religio
of Antiquita.

--- "Decimus Marius Octavian .."
<dansquiers@hotmail.com> wrote:
> the vatican is built around a religion and the
> religion and respect for the
> pope is what lead to the vatican. I think the
> neither is smarter the pope is
> living a dream where he is the only infalable human
> on matters of falth and
> thinks that he is the vicor of christ on earth , no
> where in the bible is
> this written. David Koresh was a mad man who thought
> he was christ. I am
> christian but i find nothing worth copying about
> either.
>
>
>
> DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
> PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to: i am a friend
> >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Salvete Quirites,
> >
> >On the twentith of September 1870 CE, Roma became
> part
> >of the Kingdom of Italy. The Pope's temporal power
> was
> >thought to have come to an end. For the Next 59
> years
> >no Pope left the Vatican, considering themselves
> >prisoners. This non violent display won them the
> state
> >of Vatican City, when the Laterian treaty was
> signed
> >in 1929 CE.
> >
> >The Men who were Popes between 1870 and 1929
> achived
> >what we are attempting to do without firing a
> single
> >shot, without drawing a single sword.
> >
> >Ten Years ago this very day the violent path the
> >Branch Davidian sect embarked on came to a firey
> end
> >in Waco Texas, as fire engulfed thier compound
> killing
> >every man, woman, and child inside.
> >
> >I Leave it up to you to decide who was wiser, the
> >Popes or David Koresh.
> >
> >L. Sicinius Drusus
> >Senator
> >
> >
> >--- "Decimus Marius Octavian .."
> ><dansquiers@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > time and time again history has proved that
> force is
> > > the only way to make
> > > progress . I challenge you to name one instance
> in
> > > which no force or threat
> > > of force was used to achieve a real and lasting
> > > political goal. You claim to
> > > love rome but rome loved her legions and it was
> a
> > > huge part of her culture.
> > > You event have fake legions so if you have any
> hope
> > > of really achieving
> > > statehood the only way is to fight for it.
> > > " Please give us a country" won't cut it as much
> as
> > > i hate the PLO their
> > > methods have brought the US and Israel to the
> Table.
> > > How do you think that
> > > M. Collins achieved a free southern Ireland not
> by
> > > playing dress up and
> > > having fake meetings with nothing to talk about
> but
> > > make-believe. Now i am
> > > not saying start a revolution but if you did
> manage
> > > to become a state
> > > peacefully(that is a BIG if)how would you defend
> > > your selves when the UN
> > > fails so miserably. My friends Force and
> violence(
> > > or the threat of) are the
> > > only authority which most of the world
> understands
> > > and the romans knew this
> > > so how can you now ignore this when you say that
> you
> > > are a rebirth of rome.
> > > I am not a violent man but i am not naive either
> and
> > > i know the world and
> > > you seem to be a bunch of peace loving liberals
> who
> > > have no concept of what
> > > it takes to keep a nation free. You will no
> doubt
> > > come up with all kinds of
> > > clever remarks to help you discount my words but
> the
> > > truth lies within
> > > yourselves and i can only hope and pray that you
> are
> > > right(as you would be
> > > in a perfect world)but i unfortunately know that
> the
> > > truth is darker and is
> > > rampant with evil that only force can turn back.
> Yes
> > > there are diplomatic
> > > solutions and they should be used whenever
> possible
> > > but what happen when the
> > > fox is in the hen house and he laughs at your
> > > diplomacy. Please do not fall
> > > in to that trap because it is already to late
> once
> > > he is in the door.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > DECIMUS MARIUS OCTAVIAN
> > > PRIMUS PILUS,LEGIO IVLIANA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "M. Octavius Solaris"
> > > <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com>
> > > >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] go to:
> > > >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:50:35 +0200
> > > >
> > > >Salvete!
> > > >
> > > >I'm not widely known for my idolatry for Nova
> Roma
> > > (in fact I'm also listed
> > > >along the nutcases on the spinoff page ;-)),
> but
> > > this gentleman beats it
> > > >all. What an intelligent opinion! It totally
> blew
> > > me off my socks! Sorry
> > > >pal, but I think you need to go back to
> class...
> > > you have a wrong name.
> > > >"Octavian" is not Latin but English.
> > > >
> > > >Valete...
> > > >Solaris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>
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=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

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