Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Tunic and Toga
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Thu, 8 May 2003 20:13:44 -0400

On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 06:57 PM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Can anyone tell me about the LaWren's Nest Wool Tunic and Toga?

They are quite sturdy and warm, very suitable for fall, winter and
spring events. A lighter fabric may be more desirable for high summer.
E-mail Varia Cassia and Laurentius Cassius (that's Julie and Lawrence
Brooks, the Wren's Nest proprietors) at lbrroks@sbcglobal.net. Allow
them a little time to get back to you, as they are frequently away
vending at weekend festivals. They may be selling somewhere near you,
and you could go see their wares in person! In any case, I recommend
them highly.


-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Stories about peace
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Thu, 8 May 2003 20:19:06 -0400

I've been asked to make an appearance at the annual meeting of a group
called Interfaith Maine, and to "tell a story about peace." Presumably
they're in favor of it.

I'd like very much to use something out of ancient history or
mythology, but a cursory glance at the available books tells me that
people often don't tell stories about peace. It's kinda like writing a
news headline that says "Thousands of people drive on highways without
hitting other cars." The absence of peace is much more likely to become
story material.

So, OK. I'm going to broaden the assignment to include stories that
might have to do with harmony in a community, or inner peace.

With that said, can any of the fine minds of Nova Roma suggest any
possible stories I might be able to use, or sources that might yield
fruit?

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] ...who's that?
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Thu, 8 May 2003 20:15:28 -0400

Is that Flavia Minervina Iucundia peeking in? Welcome! Is it true
you're thinking of joining us at Roman Days in June?

Anyone who missed my earlier post about a block of NR rooms at the Days
Inn, feel free to e-mail me for the info.

And Happy Birthday Lucius Cornelius!


-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Stories about peace
From:	ames0826@cs.com
Date:	Thu, 08 May 2003 20:42:35 -0400

You could give a talk about the "Pax Romana." I always kinda thought that the "peace" the imperial Romans maintained was the kind that discouraged innovation and creative thinking of any kind, that they traded a vibrant civilization for a few centuries of sterile quiet, and that they eventually paid dearly for this faulty definition of "peace." If you agree with that perspective at all it might make a decent topic.

Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org> wrote:

> I've been asked to make an appearance at the annual meeting of a group
>called Interfaith Maine, and to quot;tell a story about peace.quot; Presumably
>they're in favor of it.
>
>I'd like very much to use something out of ancient history or
>mythology, but a cursory glance at the available books tells me that
>people often don't tell stories about peace. It's kinda like writing a
>news headline that says quot;Thousands of people drive on highways without
>hitting other cars.quot; The absence of peace is much more likely to become
>story material.
>
>So, OK. I'm going to broaden the assignment to include stories that
>might have to do with harmony in a community, or inner peace.
>
>With that said, can any of the fine minds of Nova Roma suggest any
>possible stories I might be able to use, or sources that might yield
>fruit?
>
>-----
>Patricia Cassia
>Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
>Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org
>
>
>
>    *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Happy Birthday to Lucius Cornelius
From:	"a_cato2002" <a.cato@sympatico.ca>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 01:29:47 -0000

Happy Birthday to a Great Nova Roma:

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, I hope that you have had the best of
birthdays, I drink a toast to you with a glass of good wine, (I like
it chilled out of the fridge, although it is not proper) :-)

Wishing you all the best, and many, many more fine
birthdays.

Best wishes, et Pax Deorum, Appius Tullius Cato

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Happy Birthday Sulla!
From:	"deciusiunius" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 01:44:16 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Beth Clemons"
<flaviaspqr@s...> wrote:
> FELIX DIES NATALIS, SVLLAE! Just for you, I will sing my famous
birthday song:
>
> THIS IS YOUR BIRTHDAY SONG, IT ISN'T VERY LONG
>
> There, now, what more could you ask for? Oh? Me to come back to
Nova Roma? Well, since it's your birthday wish, I shall.


Welcome back Minervina Iucundia Flavia!! It is great to see you back
in NR! :-)

Decius Iunius Palladius,

Praetor, Senator

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Happy Birthday Sulla!
From:	"deciusiunius" <bcatfd@together.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 01:49:10 -0000

Ave Sulla Felix!

Happy Birthday to you amice mi!! The end is a year nearer! ;-)


Vale,

Palladius

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Stories about peace
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 8 May 2003 20:19:46 -0700 (PDT)

I Really don't think the Pax Romana had as much to do
with the colapse of the Roman state. A growing Statism
was a far greater factor, and the real cause of the
destruction of inovation. Most likely the Pax Romana
postponed the increasing despotism that was choking
Roma. Don't forget that state powers are most likely
to increase during times of war, and it was after the
collapse of the Pax Romana in the third century CE
that saw the greatest increase in the powers of the
Roman state.

--- ames0826@cs.com wrote:
> You could give a talk about the "Pax Romana." I
> always kinda thought that the "peace" the imperial
> Romans maintained was the kind that discouraged
> innovation and creative thinking of any kind, that
> they traded a vibrant civilization for a few
> centuries of sterile quiet, and that they eventually
> paid dearly for this faulty definition of "peace."
> If you agree with that perspective at all it might
> make a decent topic.
>
> Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org> wrote:
>
> > I've been asked to make an appearance at the
> annual meeting of a group
> >called Interfaith Maine, and to quot;tell a story
> about peace.quot; Presumably
> >they're in favor of it.
> >
> >I'd like very much to use something out of ancient
> history or
> >mythology, but a cursory glance at the available
> books tells me that
> >people often don't tell stories about peace. It's
> kinda like writing a
> >news headline that says quot;Thousands of people
> drive on highways without
> >hitting other cars.quot; The absence of peace is
> much more likely to become
> >story material.
> >
> >So, OK. I'm going to broaden the assignment to
> include stories that
> >might have to do with harmony in a community, or
> inner peace.
> >
> >With that said, can any of the fine minds of Nova
> Roma suggest any
> >possible stories I might be able to use, or sources
> that might yield
> >fruit?
> >
> >-----
> >Patricia Cassia
> >Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
> >Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org
> >
> >
> >
> > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> >
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
> >
>


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

Roman Citizen

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Eagle Birthday list
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 00:16:54 -0400

Salve sorry , June too

Tiberius


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 7:01 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Eagle Birthday list


> Salve
>
> As most citizens know the Eagle wishes everybody (who has paid their
taxes) a Happy Birthday in each months issues of the Eagle.
>
> For those of you who have a birthday coming in July and the following
months and you joined after January 1st, you need to send me an e-mail with
the Month and only the Month you were born and you NR name. I will add it to
the list I have form the Censors .
>
> Vale
>
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Curator Differum
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Fw: Eagle subscription?
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 00:25:22 -0400

Salve Gnaeus Octavius Noricus

Your E-mail will still not accepts from MSN so I posted this to the Main
List

Vale

Tiberius


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
To: "Gnaeus Octavius Noricus" <cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at>
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: Eagle subscription?


> Salve Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
>
>
> Yes just send a check or money order in US funds $20..00
> to
>
> Nova Roma Eagle
> 5496 Ross Court
> New Market, Maryland 21774
> USA
>
> It is not recommended but you can send cash.
>
> I can send all back issues but January. I have to order more January and
> send that latter. Send me you Macro name and postal address and I will
send
> Feb, March April and May before I get your payment. ( it does cost more to
> send outside of the US and if you would like you can send a few extra
> dollars to help with postage but this is NOT REQUIRED)
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Curator Differum
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gnaeus Octavius Noricus" <cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at>
> To: <spqr753@msn.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 7:10 PM
> Subject: Eagle subscription?
>
>
> Cn Octavius Noricus T Galerio Paulino SPD
>
> I'm interested in the NR Eagle.
>
> How much is it and how do I subscribe?
> (I live in Austria, Europe: I suppose the shipping costs are higher
> for me then. Plus I won't pay via credit card or paypal - is it
> possible to send cash?)
>
> And is it possible to get older issues of the Eagle (starting from
> this January)?
>
> Thank you in advance and good night - night for me at least ;-) !
>
> --
> Optime vale!
>
> Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
> cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at
> 09.05.2003 01:05:39
>
>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Something Silly
From:	Pipar - Steven <catamount_grange@inwave.com>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 00:03:17 -0500

Salus et Fortuna,

crunniuc wrote:
>
> I found this "what kind of pagan are you" quiz on selectsmart and got
> Anglo Saxon Heathenry. There is Roman Paganism represented, but I got
> it very far down on my list.
>

I got:
# 1 Asatru (Though, I am a good friend of Troth members [which is the link used], I am to "the
right" of them in certain ideas.)
# 2 Anglo Saxon Heathenry
# 3 Celtic
# 4 Druidry
# 5 Romuva
# 6 Slavic Paganism
# 7 Finnish Paganism
# 8 Hellenic
# 9 Shamanism
#10 Mesopotamian Paganism
#11 Roman Paganism
#12 Traditional Witchcraft
#13 Egyptian
#14 Stregha
#15 Satanism
#16 Christo-Paganism
#17 Discordianism
#18 Celtic Wicca
#19 Norse Wicca
#20 Seax Wicca
#21 Traditional Wicca
#22 Ecclectic Wicca
#23 Thelema
#24 Christian Wicca
#25 Dianic Wicca

Hmmm, seems a good question and answer session to me!

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Civis Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Flamen Privatus Ullerus

Nam risu inepto res ineptior nulla est."
- Catullus

alias

- Piparskeggr skjaldberi Ullar
Supporter: Asatru Folk Assembly
Asatru Alliance
Vinland Tribal Alliance

Builder for the Future and Traveler within the Northern Folkway.
Willing to work with those who advance Our Faith and Folkways,
including those with whom I can be in Frithful disagreement.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Happy Birthday Sulla!
From:	Pipar - Steven <catamount_grange@inwave.com>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 00:09:30 -0500

Salus, Fortuna et Shalom!

My fellow Romans, though I have not always agreed with every idea put forth by L. Cornelius Sulla, I
do like him greatly!

Sulla, I hope you are around for many, many years! My thanks for thought provoking words, and thank
you for words of friendship you have sent my way this past little while.

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Civis Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Legatus Occidentalis pro Magna Lacus

Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html

Dominus Sodalis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

Quis fuit ille personatus?
(Who was that masked man?)

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] The Herakles Project
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 05:57:09 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to Eric Kondratieff's "Herakles Project":

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~ekondrat/heraklesmain.html

The site includes a very thorough index of ancient references to
Herakles with links to those sources available in electronic texts
online where possible and an extensive bibliography of the secondary
literature. Kondratieff is a Ph.D. candidate at the Univ. of Penn.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roma: Palatinus Mons in danger !
From:	"Lucius Rutilius Minervalis" <pjtuloup@yahoo.fr>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 07:54:41 -0000

Salvete omnes !

According to information I received this morning from french news
service AFP, the hill is likely to break down and archaeological
research was stopped.
Here is the text of the message; sorry for not translating it, but
I'm at my office and I don't have time for that. I hope somebody here
will be able to translate it quickly for you.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
GLGL FRS0808 4 A Italie-architecture Mobilisation pour sauver le
Palatin, la colline qui a vu naître Rome ROME, 8 mai (AFP) -
Archéologues et écologistes italiens se mobilisent pour sauver de
l'effondrement le Palatin, la colline qui a vu naître Rome, et
réclament aux autorités régionales un budget annuel de 25 millions
d'euros pour l'entretenir.

La colline située entre le Tibre et le Forum domine la capitale et
les vestiges du Circus Massimus. Elle est célèbre pour les ruines de
nombreuses résidences impériales, des temples de Venus et de la Magna
mater et des colonnes consacrées aux victoires des armées romaines.

Mais elle s'est fragilisée au fil des siècles et la menace
d'effondrement est telle que toutes les fouilles archéologiques ont
dû être arrêtées.

"La région Lazio (latium) doit intervenir", a affirmé jeudi le chef
du groupe des Verts, Angelo Bonelli, dans un communiqué.

"Nous sommes en train d'élaborer un projet de loi régionale pour
protéger immédiatement le Palatin et la zone archéologique centrale,
dans lequel sera prévu un financement annuel de 25 millions d'euros",
a-t-il précisé.

M. Bonnelli a par ailleurs annoncé son intention de saisir le
Parlement européen afin que soient alloués des financements pour les
plus importants projets de restauration et de fouilles sur la colline.

Valete
Lucius Rutilius Minervalis

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Something Silly
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 10:10:35 +0200

Salvete, Diana Moravia Aventina et Gnaeus Salix Astur.

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
> You probably should have not clicked 'I agree'
> when asked these two questions: "Humor and
> Chaos should be the primary focus of your
> path." "Confronting, embracing, and possibly
> utilizing darkness and death are primary
> elements in your path. "

I didn't! Well, at least I didn't give either of those answers very high
priority...and I'm quite sure I answered no to the first one.

Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
> I scored:
> 1) Finish Paganism (where is Finland? ;-)
> 2) Stregheria (must be in the blood... )
> 3) Asatru (Ok, Thor is cool!)
> 17) Roma Paganism (oops!)

*tsk* *tsk* Thor's the barroom brawler to attract the loud masses of
beerswilling simpletons. And his name's spelled Tor. Oden's the 'cool
dude'. :)

> Somehow, I suspected this since the very day
> I first met you, my dear Tite Octavi :-).

Why does nobody seem surprised? I don't get it! ;)

> By the way, I have been sooooo boring and
> predictible as to get the following results
> (just my top ten):
> 1.- Roman Paganism

Ya, ya...why aren't you part of our clergy already? Here, sign the
dotted line, and never mind the fine print.

> My poorest result was Christian Wicca (#25),
> with oddities like Thelema (#23), Satanism
> (#18) and Discordianism (#16) in pretty low
> positions...

's not my fault that strange test seemed not to like me. Or maybe like
me too much. Christian Wicca was my #4, BTW.

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Something Silly
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 10:15:57 +0200

Kristoffer From wrote:
> Salvete, Diana Moravia Aventina et Gnaeus Salix Astur.

Salvete, omnes.

Me ineptus! I forgot to add "Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:" before the last
two quotes in my last e-mail...just in case you were wondering who was
accusing me of being the sort to go for those "oddities". ;)

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 582
From:	Caius Curius Saturninus <c.curius@welho.com>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 11:53:02 +0300

> > Regarding the test...I don't THINK I'm this bad, but...
>>
>> 1. Satanism
>> 2. Discordianism
>> 3. Thelema
>>
>> ... my top three seems to disagree.
>>
>> Ah well, that's life. All hail Eris!
>
>Somehow, I suspected this since the very day I first met you, my dear
>Tite Octavi :-).

Funnily no-one seems surprised... ;-)

>By the way, I have been sooooo boring and predictible as to get the
>following results (just my top ten):
>
>1.- Roman Paganism
>2.- Anglo-Saxon Heathenry (now *this* was a surprise...)
>3.- Druidry
>4.- Asatru
>5.- Hellenic (I would have expected this to be higher on the list.)
>6.- Romuva
>7.- Slavic Paganism (always loved vodka :-) .)
>8.- Celtic
>9.- Mesopotamian Paganism
>10.- Finnish Paganism (Saturnine: have you checked this out? ;-) .)
>
>My poorest result was Christian Wicca (#25), with oddities like
>Thelema (#23), Satanism (#18) and Discordianism (#16) in pretty low
>positions...
>
>A very entertaining questionnaire :-).

Almost the same as mine:
1. Roman Paganism
2. Romuva
3. Slavic Paganism
4. Mesopotamian Paganism
5. Hellenic
6. Druiry
7. Celtic
8. Asatru
9. Anglo Saxon Heathenry
10. Finnish Paganism
25. Christian Wicca

About the Finnish Paganism, it is a bit difficult to know how exact
the survived traditional information bits are. There sure has been
very strong pagan era religion as in the 16-18th century the church
still actively tried to root out pagan traditions. In the woodlands
of Eastern Finland there was some local "shamans" (I don't know
better word, and I'm not referring to shamanism) who consulted the
spirits and healed people.

There has been survived quite amount of knowledge about pagan
medicine, but their religious practises are not known well as there
is no reliable written records about them.

There are some mentions of the old Finnish gods, spirits and demons
even in the works of first Finnish author Mikael Agricola (16th
century, first one to written in Finnish). There are also some other
scattered literary remarks of the tradition, but how reliable they
are cannot be said as they are written by mostly christian priests
with motivation to promote christianity.

The Kalevala is more difficult work of literature as it is not
accurate collection of Finnish tradition but instead it is an
independent story that relies heavily on the collected old tradition.
The trouble is that we don't know which parts are purely from authors
imagination, which are from survived tradition and which are just
altered to fit into the epic story. Even if we would know which of
the songs are formed in which way, we still would not know how each
part had survived and altered through the countless storytellers
during the many generations. This is of course universally the
problem with non-literary tradition.

Vale,
--

Caius Curius Saturninus

Accensus Superior Primus (Ductor Cohortis) Cohors Consulis CFQ
Legatus Regionis Finnicae
Procurator Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
Praeses et Triumvir Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@welho.com
www.insulaumbra.com/regiofinnica
www.insulaumbra.com/academiathules
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Roma: Palatinus Mons in danger !
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 09:08:11 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Salvete, omnes.

Here is a translation of the French article which Lucius Rutilius
Minervalis forwarded. It's quick and rough (French is not my best
European language :-), but, I think, reasonably accurate.
--------------------------------------
GLGL FRS0808 4 HAS Italy Architecture Mobilisation to save the
Palatine, the hill that saw the birth of Rome.

ROME, May 8 (AFP) - Italian archaeologists and ecologists mobilise to
halt the collapse of the Palatine, the hill that saw the birth of Rome
and requires an annual budget of 25 million Euros to maintain it.

The hill, located between the Tiber and the Forum, dominates the
capital and the remnants of the Circus Maximus. It is reknown for the
ruins of many imperial residences, temples to Venus and Magna Mater,
and columns consecrated to the victories of Roman arms.

However, it has weakened with the passing of the centuries and the
threat of collapse is such that all archaeologists' excavations have
been deferred.

"The Region Lazio [Latium] must intervene," Angelo Bonnelli, head of
the group of Greens [head of the parliamentary Green fraction?],
asserted Thursday in a communique.

"We are in the process of elaborating a regional legal project to
immediately protect the Palatine and the central archaeological zone,
for which an annual funding of 25 million Euros is earmarked," he
detailed.

Mr. Bonnelli has also announced his intention to lay a bill before the
European Parliament in order to allocate funds for the most important
restoration projects and excavations on the hill.
--------------------------------------
Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Something Silly
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 09:50:33 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Salvete, omnes.

This survey has some strange algorithms. It suggested for me:

#1 Roman Paganism (That will disappoint all those who thought I was
here for the politics and the toga parties)
#2 Romuva (Very odd. I don't often think about Lithuania, actually)
#3 Slavic Paganism (Ice-cold vodka can be pleasant, as Gn. Salix
reminds us)
#4 Druidry (On the whole I prefer C. Iulius Caesar and Aulus Plautius,
thank you very much)
#5 Mesopotamian Paganism (I did once have a student on a
fill-in-the-definition question tell me that "Pazuzu was the demon of
breaking wind")
....

#21 Traditional Wicca
#22 Thelema (The site looks rather like Thelemarketing to me)
#23 Ecclectic Wicca (Is this a pun on "Ecclesia" or can't the chap
spell "eclectic"?)
#24 Dianic Wicca
#25 Christian Wicca (I am I the only one who thinks this is as much an
oxymoron as "Jewish Nazism"?)

Valete.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Stories about peace
From:	Gnaeus Octavius Noricus <cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 12:23:09 +0200

On Thu, 8 May 2003 20:19:06 -0400, Patricia Cassia wrote:
>So, OK. I'm going to broaden the assignment to include stories that
>might have to do with harmony in a community, or inner peace.
>
>With that said, can any of the fine minds of Nova Roma suggest any
>possible stories I might be able to use, or sources that might yield
> fruit?

Salve!

For the mythological part, you should check Ovid, Metamorphoses
I,120ff: The Golden Age.


--
Optime vale!

Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at
09.05.2003 12:07:44

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Stories about peace
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 06:59:16 -0400

On Friday, May 9, 2003, at 03:22 AM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> You could give a talk about the "Pax Romana." I always kinda thought
> that the "peace" the imperial Romans maintained was the kind that
> discouraged innovation and creative thinking of any kind, that they
> traded a vibrant civilization for a few centuries of sterile quiet,
> and that they eventually paid dearly for this faulty definition of
> "peace." If you agree with that perspective at all it might make a
> decent topic.
>

Oh, that's an excellent idea -- Pax without Libertas is not much Pax,
that kind of thing. Thank you!

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Stories about peace
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 11:03:57 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus Patriciae Cassiae salutem dicit.

Salve, Patricia Cassia.

> I've been asked to make an appearance at the annual meeting of a group
> called Interfaith Maine, and to "tell a story about peace." Presumably
> they're in favor of it.
>
> I'd like very much to use something out of ancient history or
> mythology, but a cursory glance at the available books tells me that
> people often don't tell stories about peace. It's kinda like writing a
> news headline that says "Thousands of people drive on highways without
> hitting other cars." The absence of peace is much more likely to become
> story material.
>
> So, OK. I'm going to broaden the assignment to include stories that
> might have to do with harmony in a community, or inner peace.
>
> With that said, can any of the fine minds of Nova Roma suggest any
> possible stories I might be able to use, or sources that might yield
> fruit?

May I suggest that P. Cornelius Tacitus's _De Vita Iulii Agricolae_
provides an excellenct text for comparison of Roman and Celtic
attitudes toward "Pax Romana." Tacitus account of Agricola's campaign
in Britannia, culiminating the the Battle of Mons Graupius, is found
in chapters 29 through 38. In particular the rhetorical speech of
Galgacus in chapters 29-33, where the famous remark about Roman
"creat[ing] a desolation and call[ing] it peace," is poignant.
Agricola's speech to his troops -- chapters 33-34 -- is a stirring
call to fulfill Rome's destiny as ruler of the world. The Battle of
Mons Graupius -- chapters 35-38 -- is the tragic consequence of this
clash of world-views.

Here are two links to the Latin text of Tacitus' _De Vita Iulii
Agricolae_:

http://www.archeologhia.com/fonti_latine/Tacito/tac.agri.html
http://www.uah.edu/student_life/organizations/SAL/claslattexts/tacitus/agricola1.htmlTacitus

And a link to an English translation of _De Vita Iulii Agricolae_,
translated by Alfred John Church and William Jackson Brodribb:

http://members.aol.com/antoninus1/piety/agricola.htm

This might provide some interesting insights in the clash of two
different ideologies of peace, and the poignancy of men whose cultures
put them on an inexorable road to a bloody resolution of that clash.

I hope this is helpful.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] ...who's that?
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 06:52:29 -0700

Ave!

Thank you very much. :)

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Patricia Cassia
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 5:15 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ...who's that?


Is that Flavia Minervina Iucundia peeking in? Welcome! Is it true
you're thinking of joining us at Roman Days in June?

Anyone who missed my earlier post about a block of NR rooms at the Days
Inn, feel free to e-mail me for the info.

And Happy Birthday Lucius Cornelius!


-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Happy Birthday to Lucius Cornelius
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 06:55:48 -0700

Ave!

Thank you very much. :) Thats a very good way to celebrate a Birthday.....or any joyous occasion.

Respectfully,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: a_cato2002
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 6:29 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Happy Birthday to Lucius Cornelius



Happy Birthday to a Great Nova Roma:

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, I hope that you have had the best of
birthdays, I drink a toast to you with a glass of good wine, (I like
it chilled out of the fridge, although it is not proper) :-)

Wishing you all the best, and many, many more fine
birthdays.

Best wishes, et Pax Deorum, Appius Tullius Cato

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Happy Birthday Sulla!
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 07:00:18 -0700

Ave Venator,

Thank you very much for the kind words. :) They are very appreciated.

Sincerely,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Pipar - Steven
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 10:09 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Happy Birthday Sulla!


Salus, Fortuna et Shalom!

My fellow Romans, though I have not always agreed with every idea put forth by L. Cornelius Sulla, I
do like him greatly!

Sulla, I hope you are around for many, many years! My thanks for thought provoking words, and thank
you for words of friendship you have sent my way this past little while.

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Civis Nova Romana et Paterfamilias
Legatus Occidentalis pro Magna Lacus

Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html

Dominus Sodalis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

Quis fuit ille personatus?
(Who was that masked man?)

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Stories about peace
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 14:14:11 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Cassia <pcassia@n...>
wrote:
>>I've been asked to make an appearance at the annual meeting of a
group called Interfaith Maine, and to "tell a story about peace."
Presumably they're in favor of it.<<


Salve Patricia Cassia,

I love a dry sense of humor! I busted out laughing when I read that.

I can't recall alot lot of Roman history that adresses peace.
Perhaps the story of Lucius Equitius, but that is more about duty,
lack of self-ambition, state before self, etc. and, of course, has a
war in it:-0

I'll think on it some more.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Wine (was: Happy Birthday to Lucius Cornelius)
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 14:17:29 -0000

>>I drink a toast to you with a glass of good wine, (I like
it chilled out of the fridge, although it is not proper) :-)<<>


Salve Appi Tulli,

In my experience with wine (and I confess it is considerable ;-)),
what is "proper" is what you like.

I think I'll be really naughty tonight and have red wine with fish!

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Stories about peace
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 06:55:01 -0700

Ave!

You can talk about the Temple of Janus.

Respectfully,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Patricia Cassia
To: nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 5:19 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Stories about peace


I've been asked to make an appearance at the annual meeting of a group
called Interfaith Maine, and to "tell a story about peace." Presumably
they're in favor of it.

I'd like very much to use something out of ancient history or
mythology, but a cursory glance at the available books tells me that
people often don't tell stories about peace. It's kinda like writing a
news headline that says "Thousands of people drive on highways without
hitting other cars." The absence of peace is much more likely to become
story material.

So, OK. I'm going to broaden the assignment to include stories that
might have to do with harmony in a community, or inner peace.

With that said, can any of the fine minds of Nova Roma suggest any
possible stories I might be able to use, or sources that might yield
fruit?

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Invalid Voter Code Notice
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 14:36:25 -0000

Salve,

The citizen with the following voter tracking codes
has a malformed or inaccurate voter code:

# 367

Please remember to enter your code exactly as it is
given, and if you are unsure of your new code, follow
the instructions posted previously to obtain your
current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
Rogator

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stories about peace
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 07:07:29 -0700

Ave,

Its almost like there is a moral to the story...Like the Punic Curse.

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory Rose
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 4:03 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stories about peace


G. Iulius Scaurus Patriciae Cassiae salutem dicit.

Salve, Patricia Cassia.

> I've been asked to make an appearance at the annual meeting of a group
> called Interfaith Maine, and to "tell a story about peace." Presumably
> they're in favor of it.
>
> I'd like very much to use something out of ancient history or
> mythology, but a cursory glance at the available books tells me that
> people often don't tell stories about peace. It's kinda like writing a
> news headline that says "Thousands of people drive on highways without
> hitting other cars." The absence of peace is much more likely to become
> story material.
>
> So, OK. I'm going to broaden the assignment to include stories that
> might have to do with harmony in a community, or inner peace.
>
> With that said, can any of the fine minds of Nova Roma suggest any
> possible stories I might be able to use, or sources that might yield
> fruit?

May I suggest that P. Cornelius Tacitus's _De Vita Iulii Agricolae_
provides an excellenct text for comparison of Roman and Celtic
attitudes toward "Pax Romana." Tacitus account of Agricola's campaign
in Britannia, culiminating the the Battle of Mons Graupius, is found
in chapters 29 through 38. In particular the rhetorical speech of
Galgacus in chapters 29-33, where the famous remark about Roman
"creat[ing] a desolation and call[ing] it peace," is poignant.
Agricola's speech to his troops -- chapters 33-34 -- is a stirring
call to fulfill Rome's destiny as ruler of the world. The Battle of
Mons Graupius -- chapters 35-38 -- is the tragic consequence of this
clash of world-views.

Here are two links to the Latin text of Tacitus' _De Vita Iulii
Agricolae_:

http://www.archeologhia.com/fonti_latine/Tacito/tac.agri.html
http://www.uah.edu/student_life/organizations/SAL/claslattexts/tacitus/agricola1.htmlTacitus

And a link to an English translation of _De Vita Iulii Agricolae_,
translated by Alfred John Church and William Jackson Brodribb:

http://members.aol.com/antoninus1/piety/agricola.htm

This might provide some interesting insights in the clash of two
different ideologies of peace, and the poignancy of men whose cultures
put them on an inexorable road to a bloody resolution of that clash.

I hope this is helpful.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Stories about peace
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 17:07:16 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator Patricia Cassia and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

At the risk of displaying my poor command of the
precise details of Roman mythology, wasn't there a
story about a war between the Romans and another
Italian people which was averted by the appeals of the
women who were related to both sides? I think it might
be the story of the Sabine women, who had been
abducted and forced to marry Romans. If so, it should
be in Livy, somewhere in the first ten books. I'm sure
someone out there must know what I'm thinking of
better than I do.

Yours ineptly,

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Stories about peace
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 16:16:16 -0000

Salve,

It is indeed the "Rape of the Sabine Women". The Romans got the
Sabines drunk at a feast, grabbed the maidens, and threw the Sabines
out. By the time the Sabines returned, the new brides had come to
love their husbands and implored their fathers and brothers not to
kill their new husbands.

Might be kinda hard to shape that one into a success story for
peace, though. More like "use force and things will work out" ;-O

Gaius Popillius Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator Patricia Cassia and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> At the risk of displaying my poor command of the
> precise details of Roman mythology, wasn't there a
> story about a war between the Romans and another
> Italian people which was averted by the appeals of the
> women who were related to both sides? I think it might
> be the story of the Sabine women, who had been
> abducted and forced to marry Romans. If so, it should
> be in Livy, somewhere in the first ten books. I'm sure
> someone out there must know what I'm thinking of
> better than I do.
>
> Yours ineptly,
>
> Cordus
>
> =====
>
>
> www.strategikon.org
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Plus
> For a better Internet experience
> http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stories about peace
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 09:26:04 -0700

Ave!

I couldn't help laughing...You know you can always put a different spin....Thats the great thing with myths and stories...one can always spin them.

This is why I suggested a story about the Temple of Janus and its signficance..and it also can promote the Religio Romana.

Here are some links about the Temple of Janus:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dougsmit/feac38ner.html

http://www.ku.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Gazetteer/Places/Europe/Italy/Lazio/Roma/Rome/.Texts/PLATOP*/Aedes_Jani.html

http://www.clubs.psu.edu/aegsa/rome/jan11.htm

http://www.dl.ket.org/latin1/mythology/1deities/gods/lesser/roman/janus.htm

http://www.loggia.com/myth/janus.html

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 9:16 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stories about peace


Salve,

It is indeed the "Rape of the Sabine Women". The Romans got the
Sabines drunk at a feast, grabbed the maidens, and threw the Sabines
out. By the time the Sabines returned, the new brides had come to
love their husbands and implored their fathers and brothers not to
kill their new husbands.

Might be kinda hard to shape that one into a success story for
peace, though. More like "use force and things will work out" ;-O

Gaius Popillius Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator Patricia Cassia and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> At the risk of displaying my poor command of the
> precise details of Roman mythology, wasn't there a
> story about a war between the Romans and another
> Italian people which was averted by the appeals of the
> women who were related to both sides? I think it might
> be the story of the Sabine women, who had been
> abducted and forced to marry Romans. If so, it should
> be in Livy, somewhere in the first ten books. I'm sure
> someone out there must know what I'm thinking of
> better than I do.
>
> Yours ineptly,
>
> Cordus
>
> =====
>
>
> www.strategikon.org
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Plus
> For a better Internet experience
> http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer

Subject:	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:[Nova-Roma]_Stories_about_peace?=
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?Q?sa-mann@libero.it?=" <sa-mann@libero.it>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 21:04:49 +0200

Spectata Patricia Cassia

The story you might like to tell could be entitled "SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLVM".

The character is Caesar Octavianus Agustus, and the story goes through all of his victories until the doors of the Aedes of Ianus are closed, and the golden age started again in Rome.

Reverenter

Gallus Solaris Alexander

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Stories about peace
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 22:10:30 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : “L. Sicinius Drusus“ <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
Date : 09 May 2003 04:19:46

I Really don't think the Pax Romana had as much to do
>with the colapse of the Roman state. A growing Statism
>was a far greater factor, and the real cause of the
>destruction of inovation. Most likely the Pax Romana
>postponed the increasing despotism that was choking
>Roma. Don't forget that state powers are most likely

Don't forget that only the backward half 'fell' and they did not consider it that at the time. Historical evidence, however we hate to admit it, is that despotism works. The East, always more despotic, survived for another thousand years. The longest-running state in history is probably Egypt, rule by God. China comes close but was only a true temporally continuous entity for 2,500 years. Assyria also had a long history and if the King wasn't God, he was certainly magic.

Caesariensis.

“People who go around getting their panties in a knot when they allow
others to threaten their beliefs usually gain nothing but a sore ass...“
--Gwenius Maximus, 01/26/02

"Oh, go away and think for yourselves!".
"Master, tell us how to go away and think for ourselves". - 'Life of Brian'.




--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	FW: Re: [Nova-Roma] Historical CLothing
From:	me-in-@disguise.co.uk
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 22:12:40 +0100 (BST)

-----Original Message-----
>From : Karen Blackburn <Karen-Julia@mail.ie>
Date : 08 May 2003 23:54:47

>I haven't bought a tunic from la wren but have made some myself for both my husband and myself. I have found for my own use that linen is better but my husband says it depends on the weather. If it is warm, then linen is cooler and more comfortable but in the cooler weather wool is prefered. You may however, need to wear a thin linen tunic under the woollen one as some woollen fabrics itch, especially round the neck.
>
I've always understood that a tunica should not resemble a closed poncho but is a long strip wrapped round under the arms from the left and then clasped over the shoulders as far as it might want any sleeves, and belted.

Caesariensis


“People who go around getting their panties in a knot when they allow
others to threaten their beliefs usually gain nothing but a sore ass...“
--Gwenius Maximus, 01/26/02

"Oh, go away and think for yourselves!".
"Master, tell us how to go away and think for ourselves". - 'Life of Brian'.




--
Personalised email by http://another.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] test
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 21:07:42 -0000

Salve omnes,

Just testing ML . My last message did not appear.

QLP

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Movie to look forward to - a modern Ancient Rome
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 19:06:32 -0000

Salvete omnes,

I came across this upcoming movie called Megalopolis. Its something
to look forward to for next year. Check it out.

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


http://www.starseeker.com/films/megalopo.htm

Subject:	Re:[Nova-Roma] Stories about peace
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 21:14:04 -0000

Salvete,

Just testing ML. Postings not appearing.

QLP

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: test
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 21:45:14 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus"
<mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salve omnes,

Boudiccan Rebellion
http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_507144.html?menu=
Megalopolis – Future Rome
Director Francis Ford Coppola has described Megalopolis as "a Roman
epic, a Cecil B. DeMille" style picture. The setting is modern New
York and the premise is that the world of the future is being
negotiated today. The characters include artists, businessmen,
politicians, and the common people, all having a stake in the future
but few able to directly determine their destiny. New York is
portrayed as the counterpart of ancient Republican Rome and the plot
is inspired by a very famous incident during the period of the Roman
Republic called the Catiline Conspiracy. Although set in the present
day, the surroundings will conjure the ambience of ancient Rome.
According to Coppola, "Say you're downtown, around Wall Street, and
suddenly you come across a Roman temple. You'll see that sensibility
in the way it's staged and shot. A taxicab will be from modern New
York, but you'll feel like you're in Rome. The story is a very Roman
story but it's also a very modern American story." Estimated to have
a budget of $60-80 million, the film has been compared to Ayn Rand's
novel The Fountainhead, with "a real estate entrepreneur who wants to
construct the title building out of new and cheap advanced plastic
compound and the well-liked New York mayor who is out to stop him."




For those who don't know:

The Cataline Conspiracy: Between the repulsion of Lepidus by Catalus
and the uneventful passage of Caesar over the bridge, there were 29
years of almost uninterrupted trouble as the Roman republic collapse
in on itself. One of the most intriguing events of this chaotic
period was the Conspiracy of Cataline (not the same guy as Catalus),
and again the Milvian Bridge figures into the story.
All of the accounts of Cataline were written after his conspiracy was
discovered and his revolt was put down, so what was said about him by
his victorious enemies might be suspect. But even his former
followers tell the same story: he was eloquent, charming, rich,
dissolute, mean, extravagant, unwise, and insatiably ambitious. He
was the epitome of the chaos of his times. Cataline surrounded
himself (as did many others of the nobility, and as do boxers,
football players, and rap stars of today) with an entourage of thugs
and criminals. They and Cataline were accused by their enemies (and
later by some of their followers) of almost any conceivable excess.
There is no doubt that they were a criminal gang. Their power in the
city quickly grew and they eventually got the support of a number of
Senators, most of whom were enemies of Pompey -- they appear to have
thought that they could use Cataline to bring Pompey down a notch or
two. Some even said that Crassus, Pompey's chief rival, at least
tacitly supported Cataline, who was plotting a coup.
In 64 BC, Pompey was off fighting the Mithradatic Wars overseas, and
Cataline saw a chance to put his plan into action. But another
schemer, Cicero, was also around, and he wanted to thwart Cataline.
The goal of Cicero, Rome's most successful lawyer and most famous
orator, had always been to avoid being identified with any of the
political camps or gangs in the city -- he wanted to know and control
everything, but to be seen as a "clean hands" outsider. He had spies
planted everywhere, and some of them were in Cataline's gang. When he
got wind of Cataline's impending coup attempt, Cicero bribed some of
Cataline's supposed allies, barbarian representatives of the
Allobroges tribe from Gaul, to help him trap Cataline. The details
are complex, but, in short, Cicero's men and the magistrates
intercepted the Allobroges along with Cataline's emissaries at (where
else?) the Milvian Bridge as they were leaving town. There was a
short scuffle -- the Allobroges didn't participate -- and then
Cataline's men were captured. The Allobroges, acting on Cicero's
suggestion, had asked the emissaries to bring along letters from
Cataline outlining the plot, and these letters were taken and read
out in the Senate by Cicero. The Senate was outraged, but more
importantly, the general public, on whose support Cataline had
depended, were also outraged, and this because of two things. First,
although almost anything else might be tolerated, nobody should ever
recruit barbarians, and especially Gauls, in a conspiracy against
Rome. Secondly and more importantly, the letters seized from
Cataline's emissaries made it clear that his plot involved widespread
arson in the city, and fire was every Roman's worst nightmare.
Cataline escaped the but he and many of his high ranking followers
were quickly caught and executed under quasi-legal circumstances.
Accusations against Crassus were suppressed, either because the
Senate thought he was too powerful to beard or because, as Crassus
maintained, the accusations were trumped up by his enemy Cicero.
Cicero was said to have resisted attempts by his allies to bring
trumped up charges against Julius Caesar.
Milivian Bridge www.org website


>
> Just testing ML . My last message did not appear.
>
> QLP

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: ...who's that?
From:	"Mary Beth Clemons" <flaviaspqr@sailormoon.com>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 23:51:09 +0800

SVVBE

>Is that Flavia Minervina Iucundia peeking in? Welcome! Is it true
>you're thinking of joining us at Roman Days in June?

Yes, yes...it's everyone's favorite ex-senator and ex-post-pre-pro-praetor! But, SHHHHHHH! It's a secret. I don't want Equitias to know. ;op And am I thinking of joining y'all at Roman Days in June?! Heck no! I SHALL be at Roman Days in June, courtesy of the infinitely generous Q. Fabius Maximus. (Alas, I am a po' college student.) Three cheers for Fabius! Hip-hip...HUZZAH! Hip-hip...HUZZAH! Hip-hip...HUZZAH!


>Anyone who missed my earlier post about a block of NR rooms at the >Days
>Inn, feel free to e-mail me for the info.

I don't know what I am doing about a hotel room yet. Something tells me that I will Fabius' love slave for the weekend in exchange for the airfare. Howe'er, if someone would like to split the cost of boarding, then I could still be a candidate for being a Vestal. (SHUT UP, CASSIUS!)

Also, whilst I have someone's undivided attention, let it be known that I shall be needing a ride back to the airport Monday afternoon so I can get back to Tampa. So, spread the word, please.

>And Happy Birthday Lucius Cornelius!

Screw you, Lucius Cornelius! (hee hee)

Valete,

Minervina Iucundia Flavia
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: test / two upcoming movies to look forward to!
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 21:39:49 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus"
<mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salve omnes,
>
> Just came across these 2 new upcoming films to be shot in the near
future. They look pretty interesting.

Boudiccan Rebellion
http://www.ananova.com/entertainment/story/sm_507144.html?menu=




Megalopolis – Future Rome
Director Francis Ford Coppola has described Megalopolis as "a Roman
epic, a Cecil B. DeMille" style picture. The setting is modern New
York and the premise is that the world of the future is being
negotiated today. The characters include artists, businessmen,
politicians, and the common people, all having a stake in the future
but few able to directly determine their destiny. New York is
portrayed as the counterpart of ancient Republican Rome and the plot
is inspired by a very famous incident during the period of the Roman
Republic called the Catiline Conspiracy. Although set in the present
day, the surroundings will conjure the ambience of ancient Rome.
According to Coppola, "Say you're downtown, around Wall Street, and
suddenly you come across a Roman temple. You'll see that sensibility
in the way it's staged and shot. A taxicab will be from modern New
York, but you'll feel like you're in Rome. The story is a very Roman
story but it's also a very modern American story." Estimated to have
a budget of $60-80 million, the film has been compared to Ayn Rand's
novel The Fountainhead, with "a real estate entrepreneur who wants to
construct the title building out of new and cheap advanced plastic
compound and the well-liked New York mayor who is out to stop him."



For those who don't know:

The Cataline Conspiracy: Between the repulsion of Lepidus by Catalus
and the uneventful passage of Caesar over the bridge, there were 29
years of almost uninterrupted trouble as the Roman republic collapse
in on itself. One of the most intriguing events of this chaotic
period was the Conspiracy of Cataline (not the same guy as Catalus),
and again the Milvian Bridge figures into the story.
All of the accounts of Cataline were written after his conspiracy was
discovered and his revolt was put down, so what was said about him by
his victorious enemies might be suspect. But even his former
followers tell the same story: he was eloquent, charming, rich,
dissolute, mean, extravagant, unwise, and insatiably ambitious. He
was the epitome of the chaos of his times. Cataline surrounded
himself (as did many others of the nobility, and as do boxers,
football players, and rap stars of today) with an entourage of thugs
and criminals. They and Cataline were accused by their enemies (and
later by some of their followers) of almost any conceivable excess.
There is no doubt that they were a criminal gang. Their power in the
city quickly grew and they eventually got the support of a number of
Senators, most of whom were enemies of Pompey -- they appear to have
thought that they could use Cataline to bring Pompey down a notch or
two. Some even said that Crassus, Pompey's chief rival, at least
tacitly supported Cataline, who was plotting a coup.
In 64 BC, Pompey was off fighting the Mithradatic Wars overseas, and
Cataline saw a chance to put his plan into action. But another
schemer, Cicero, was also around, and he wanted to thwart Cataline.
The goal of Cicero, Rome's most successful lawyer and most famous
orator, had always been to avoid being identified with any of the
political camps or gangs in the city -- he wanted to know and control
everything, but to be seen as a "clean hands" outsider. He had spies
planted everywhere, and some of them were in Cataline's gang. When he
got wind of Cataline's impending coup attempt, Cicero bribed some of
Cataline's supposed allies, barbarian representatives of the
Allobroges tribe from Gaul, to help him trap Cataline. The details
are complex, but, in short, Cicero's men and the magistrates
intercepted the Allobroges along with Cataline's emissaries at (where
else?) the Milvian Bridge as they were leaving town. There was a
short scuffle -- the Allobroges didn't participate -- and then
Cataline's men were captured. The Allobroges, acting on Cicero's
suggestion, had asked the emissaries to bring along letters from
Cataline outlining the plot, and these letters were taken and read
out in the Senate by Cicero. The Senate was outraged, but more
importantly, the general public, on whose support Cataline had
depended, were also outraged, and this because of two things. First,
although almost anything else might be tolerated, nobody should ever
recruit barbarians, and especially Gauls, in a conspiracy against
Rome. Secondly and more importantly, the letters seized from
Cataline's emissaries made it clear that his plot involved widespread
arson in the city, and fire was every Roman's worst nightmare.
Cataline escaped the but he and many of his high ranking followers
were quickly caught and executed under quasi-legal circumstances.
Accusations against Crassus were suppressed, either because the
Senate thought he was too powerful to beard or because, as Crassus
maintained, the accusations were trumped up by his enemy Cicero.
Cicero was said to have resisted attempts by his allies to bring
trumped up charges against Julius Caesar.


Articls from Milivian Bridge www.org website

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] TGIF Time!
From:	"julilla" <curatrix@villaivlilla.com>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 19:32:49 -0000

Julilla Sempronia Magna ominibus SPD

It's a fine Friday in Maius and time to knock off work (or at least
waste a little time while you should be finishing up). I'd like to
invite you to the Provincia America Boreoccidentalis web site to test
your knowledge of our local familiae, ancient Rome, and the provincia
with three new ludi!

http://ambor.novaroma.org/ludi.htm

---
IULI.SEMPRON.MAGN.PR.AM.BOR.
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Praetrix America Boreoccidentalis
|||| http://ambor.novaroma.org
Discussion Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmBor_Waves/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Reminder : elections at comitia plebis tributa
From:	"Daniel O. Villanueva" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Fri, 9 May 2003 18:51:00 -0300

Salvete Plebeian citizens!
This is just a friendly reminder that the fifth run-off election for the 1(one) vacant office of Tribunus Plebis is currently in progress! Voting will continue until Sunday May 11th, 18:01 Roman Time, but why wait? Vote now by going to http://www.novaroma.org and clicking 'VOTE NOW' !.If you don't remember your voter code or are a new citizen, no problem. You can have your voter code automatically mailed to you by doing the following:Go to http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/gentes . Find the name of your gens (they are listed alphabetically). Two columns to the right of your Gens name, click on the 'number of cives'. A new page opens that contains a listing of all the citizens in your Gens. Find your name and click on the link. On the new page you'll see a box which contains information about you. Click on "Get voter code". On the new page, enter your year of birth and click 'request voter code'. Your voter code will be emailed to you. Once you have your voter code, go to http://www.novaroma.org and click 'VOTE NOW'.

Thank you for your participation in this election!

Valete bene

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

Tribunus Plebis



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: TGIF Time!
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 22:36:51 -0000

Salve Jullila,

That is a very nice website you have. Well done indeed.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "julilla" <curatrix@v...> wrote:
> Julilla Sempronia Magna ominibus SPD
>
> It's a fine Friday in Maius and time to knock off work (or at least
> waste a little time while you should be finishing up). I'd like to
> invite you to the Provincia America Boreoccidentalis web site to
test
> your knowledge of our local familiae, ancient Rome, and the
provincia
> with three new ludi!
>
> http://ambor.novaroma.org/ludi.htm
>
> ---
> IULI.SEMPRON.MAGN.PR.AM.BOR.
> @____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
> |||| www.villaivlilla.com/
> @____@ Praetrix America Boreoccidentalis
> |||| http://ambor.novaroma.org
> Discussion Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmBor_Waves/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Something Silly
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 23:08:58 -0000

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Tite Octavi.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> > Somehow, I suspected this since the very day
> > I first met you, my dear Tite Octavi :-).
>
> Why does nobody seem surprised? I don't get it! ;)

It has to do with your death-metal T-shirts :-).

> > By the way, I have been sooooo boring and
> > predictible as to get the following results
> > (just my top ten):
> > 1.- Roman Paganism
>
> Ya, ya...why aren't you part of our clergy already? Here, sign the
> dotted line, and never mind the fine print.

Actually, I think that you are right! :-).

> > My poorest result was Christian Wicca (#25),
> > with oddities like Thelema (#23), Satanism
> > (#18) and Discordianism (#16) in pretty low
> > positions...
>
> 's not my fault that strange test seemed not to like me. Or maybe
> like me too much. Christian Wicca was my #4, BTW.

Now *that* would make me worry :-).

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 582
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 23:21:08 -0000

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Saturnine.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Curius Saturninus
<c.curius@w...> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Almost the same as mine:
> 1. Roman Paganism
> 2. Romuva
> 3. Slavic Paganism
> 4. Mesopotamian Paganism
> 5. Hellenic
> 6. Druiry
> 7. Celtic
> 8. Asatru
> 9. Anglo Saxon Heathenry
> 10. Finnish Paganism
> 25. Christian Wicca

It seems that neither of us is too original, my friend :-).

> About the Finnish Paganism, it is a bit difficult to know how exact
> the survived traditional information bits are. There sure has been
> very strong pagan era religion as in the 16-18th century the church
> still actively tried to root out pagan traditions. In the woodlands
> of Eastern Finland there was some local "shamans" (I don't know
> better word, and I'm not referring to shamanism) who consulted the
> spirits and healed people.
>
> There has been survived quite amount of knowledge about pagan
> medicine, but their religious practises are not known well as there
> is no reliable written records about them.
>
> There are some mentions of the old Finnish gods, spirits and demons
> even in the works of first Finnish author Mikael Agricola (16th
> century, first one to written in Finnish). There are also some
> other
> scattered literary remarks of the tradition, but how reliable they
> are cannot be said as they are written by mostly christian priests
> with motivation to promote christianity.
>
> The Kalevala is more difficult work of literature as it is not
> accurate collection of Finnish tradition but instead it is an
> independent story that relies heavily on the collected old
> tradition.
> The trouble is that we don't know which parts are purely from
> authors
> imagination, which are from survived tradition and which are just
> altered to fit into the epic story. Even if we would know which of
> the songs are formed in which way, we still would not know how each
> part had survived and altered through the countless storytellers
> during the many generations. This is of course universally the
> problem with non-literary tradition.

A very interesting information, Saturnine. Thank you.

I see many parallels between the Finnish Religion and the Irish
Tradition (safe that Irish tales were written down a few centuries
earlier).

And you are right; religions that do not have a literary tradition
are very difficult to study seriously. We will never be too grateful
towards all those black-robed mediaeval benedictine monks who kept
the works of Cicero, Ovid and Horace :-).

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Something Silly
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Fri, 09 May 2003 23:28:43 -0000

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Gai Iuli Scaure.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Rose" <gfr@i...> wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.
>
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> This survey has some strange algorithms. It suggested for me:
>
> #1 Roman Paganism (That will disappoint all those who thought I was
> here for the politics and the toga parties)

Do not worry. We still now that you are here just for the toga
parties :-).

> #2 Romuva (Very odd. I don't often think about Lithuania, actually)
> #3 Slavic Paganism (Ice-cold vodka can be pleasant, as Gn. Salix
> reminds us)

Sheeeeahhh! *hic* ;-).

> #4 Druidry (On the whole I prefer C. Iulius Caesar and Aulus
> Plautius, thank you very much)

But then, there's whiskey as well :-).

> #5 Mesopotamian Paganism (I did once have a student on a
> fill-in-the-definition question tell me that "Pazuzu was the demon
> of breaking wind")
> ....
>
> #21 Traditional Wicca
> #22 Thelema (The site looks rather like Thelemarketing to me)
> #23 Ecclectic Wicca (Is this a pun on "Ecclesia" or can't the chap
> spell "eclectic"?)
> #24 Dianic Wicca
> #25 Christian Wicca (I am I the only one who thinks this is as much
> an oxymoron as "Jewish Nazism"?)

It does sound quite complicated, yes. However, as someone quite
familiar with Catholicism, I can assure you that such a thing is by
no means impossible :-).

(No offence meant towards our Catholic citizens; just a little joke
:-) ).

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF