| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] nova roma citizenship |
| From: |
"iris_serva" <iris_serva@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Mon, 12 May 2003 22:25:43 -0000 |
|
salve!
I would like to become a citizen of nova roma but I don't know
exactly what to do. Please, if you are a member of nova roma, I'm
looking for your help.
I'm a 18 years old girl from barcelona and I'm very interested in
everyday's life in pompei. I can speak french, spanish and I
understand italian or swedish. My english, as you see, is not good
enough but I can communicate.
gratias ago
vale
Iris
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] statement as dominus factionis veneta |
| From: |
"Daniel O. Villanueva" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar> |
| Date: |
Mon, 12 May 2003 22:39:59 -0300 |
|
Salvete omnes members of factio veneta.
I apologize, for not being active as dominus factionis veneta during the last Ludi this month, but I knew about it when it was too late.
Bene valete
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Dominus factionis veneta
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] =?iso-8859-1?q?Collections_de_l'=83cole_fran=8Daise_d'Ath=8Fnes_en_ligne_(Collections_of_the_French_S?= |
| From: |
"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 03:57:35 -0000 |
|
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.
Avete, Quirites.
Here's a link to an extraordinary new online resource, CEFAEL:
Collections de l'ƒcole franaise d'Athnes en ligne (Collections of
the French School at Athens online):
http://cefael.efa.gr
The site now includes freely downloadable copies of the vast majority
of books and journals published by L'ƒcole franaise d'Athnes since
the late 19th century. Unfortunately the Bibliothque de l'Ecole
franaise d'Athnes et de Rome - SŽrie Rome has not yet been entered,
but is expected soon. The collections include Bibliothques de
l'Ecole franaise d'Athnes et de Rome - SŽrie Athnes, Corpus des
Inscriptions de Delphes, Exploration ArchŽologique de DŽlos, Fouilles
de Delphes, and Sites et monuments. A number of the volumes are
available in English and German as well as French.
Valete, Quirites.
G. Iulius Scaurus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: nova roma citizenship |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 05:24:25 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "iris_serva" <iris_serva@h...>
wrote:
Hola Iris,
Como esta? Estamos muy feliz tenerle aqui en Nova Roma y esperamos
ayudarle bien. Bienvenidos!
1) http://www.novaroma.org/
Es necesario ir este hmtl y abrirlo
2) pronto, va a abrir el lobo y los ninos
3) Hay un seleccion de los idiomas y puede abrir "espanol"
4) Vd. va a ver " contenidos " y es un idea bueno leer los articulos
como Resrepublica, Patheon, Cives etc,
5) Hay muchas coasas de aprender pero no tenga miedo. En tiempo se
puede aprender mucho!
6) Mira album gentium para ver una familia o nombre que vd le gusta
7) Envia una cartita a madre o padre de la familia para decirles que
vd quiere ser parte de su familia. Sus direcciones estan alli.
8) Ahora va a abir Solicite la Ciudadania y hagase cuidadano.
Tambien, mira "Nombres Romanos" - como escoger un nombre
Bueno, espero que mis instruccines le ayude un poco. No tenga
preocupaciones si vd. quiere hacer mas preguntas. Mi lungua es ingles
pero a veces quiero praticar mi espanol. Su ingles es muy bueno, no
errores.
Vale bene,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> salve!
> I would like to become a citizen of nova roma but I don't know
> exactly what to do. Please, if you are a member of nova roma, I'm
> looking for your help.
> I'm a 18 years old girl from barcelona and I'm very interested in
> everyday's life in pompei. I can speak french, spanish and I
> understand italian or swedish. My english, as you see, is not good
> enough but I can communicate.
> gratias ago
> vale
> Iris
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: New Member looking for story fact/Latin checking |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 05:54:36 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Mr. Elkins.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Mike Elkins <Mike@E...> wrote:
> Salve,
> I am excited to have found Nova Roma, as I have been
> wondering where to find knowledgeable people who could help me with
> some short stories I have been writing, which are set in the reign
> of Agustus.
Be welcome! :-).
> Although I'm focused most on making the stories enjoyable to the
> average reader, I always hate reading things that have obvious
> flaws that would have taken just a minute to fix if only the author
> had taken the time to ask...
A very noble objective... :-).
> While I'd welcome any (constructive) criticism, I'm particularly
> eager to hear about bad choices for names, awkward or just plain
> wrong Latin, and historical anachronisms.
To begin with, I would like to suggest a visit to one of the pages of
the web site of Nova Roma: "On choosing a Roman name"
http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names.html
It has excellent suggestions.
> If this request is better suited for one of the sodalitates, let me
> know which one and I'll gladly post it there.
We haven't created a "Society to Correct Anachronisms in Popular Art"
yet, but we might end up creating one :-).
> Most replies should probably be sent to me directly at Mike@E...
I am crossposting this to that address.
Bene valete in Pace Deorum.
CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Online Version of the Aeneid |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 06:02:49 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Gai Corde Symmache.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, ckieffe <ckieffe@c...> wrote:
> Salvete amici!
> I have a really old (late 19th century) copy of an interlinear
> version of Vergil's _Aeneid _. Ever since I bought the book, I
> always felt it was a shame that it was not widely available --
> Christians have access to interlinear Greek New Testaments, English-
> speaking Jews have access to the Kohlenberger interlinear Hebrew
> Tanach, but we followers of the religio have few interlinear
> resources widely available for our important texts. So, I've
> been scanning the pages and putting them into Adobe Acrobat
> format. Book 1 is
> located in the Latinatis group's files at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Latinitas/files/InterlinearAeneid/
>
> You'll need to zoom out to 100% inside of Adobe Acrobat in
> order to see the scans at the best resolution. I'll be uploading
> more books of the _Aeneid_ as I complete them. I apologize that
> some of the pages are difficult to read, but some of the pages are
> old, yellow, marked-up, and brittle. I tried my scanner's built-in
> hardware OCR to render the pages into text, as well as Scanbridge,
> but neither produced satisfactory results, so I just converted the
> pages to jpgs.
> The problem is that the pdf file for each book is going to be
> about 5 megs, and there are 12 books, of course. So does Nova-Roma
> (or someone) have an FTP site where I could upload these pdf
> files? There are only 20 megs of space on the Yahoo groups file
> areas.
>
> Some other tools for the Aeneid can be found on-line at:
>
> Perseus Project's _Aeneid_
> http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%
> 3A1999.02.0055
>
> _Aeneid_ at The Vergil Project
> http://vergil.classics.upenn.edu/workspace/display_frame.html
>
>
> The Loeb edition (2 volumes) of the _Aeneid_ may also be handy.
>
> Valete,
> C Cordius Symmachus
I would like to point you towards a web page that does contain a
few "sacred" texts for the Religio Romana:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/index.htm
The Aeneid is among them:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/virgil/aen/index.htm
although probably your translation is much better.
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum.
CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Roma: Palatinus Mons in danger ! |
| From: |
"Marcus Iulius Perusianus" <m_iulius@virgilio.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 08:21:50 -0000 |
|
Ave Rutili,
I totally agree with my Propraetor, amice. Mine wasn't a reproach
against you or who else publish untrue news. Your alert is
ecomiable ;-) I just only wanted to write my point of view on a topic
that I'm following so close, due to Magna Mater project on the
Palatine.
I would say that that news could be also true but what I know is that
the most respectable people who manage that archaeological area, have
no mentioned the fact.
Vale
Marcus Iulius Perusianus
--------------------------------------------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
http://italia.novaroma.org
http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
--------------------------------------------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salve Illustrus Rutilius Minervalis,
> don't ask apologies, your action was appreciable. The conservation
of
> out Cultural and Archeological Tresury is one of our most important
> goals and we have to check all the news coming up.
> I know AFP is a good office and remember that the words were spoken
> by a politician. An italic citizen explained me the "political
games"
> playing in this period because there will the votation in the
> Province of Rome soon.
> Don't worry, IMHO you have done a wonderful job and it need to
> protest against the french office. You have done your duties as
Roman
> and the we answered because we have seen with our eyes during the
> project of Magna Mater. Don't worry, we are here in Italy to check
> and vigile ;-)) (I hope LOL)
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Rutilius Minervalis"
> <pjtuloup@y...> wrote:
> > Salevete omnes !
> >
> > It seems that information that I followed on this list is
> > inaccurate...
> >
> > Please, excuse me to have sent this message of the AFP, which
> seemed
> > significant to me.
> >
> > I am happy that the Palatine Mons is not in danger, and sad that
> the
> > AFP is not a serious office!!!
> >
> > I propose to send to the AFP an official mail of protest in the
> name
> > of Nova-Roma, asking which were the sources of a so whimsical
> > information. Who agrees?
> >
> > Valete !
> >
> > Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Rose" <gfr@i...> wrote:
> > > G. Iulius Scaurus M. Iulio Perusiano salutem dicit.
> > >
> > > Salve, M. Iuli.
> > >
> > > > having read this message, I've begun a research on major
> Italian
> > > > newspapers to see if this news was true or not. I believe
that
> at
> > the
> > > > moment there's no mobilization at all in Italian
architectural
> > and
> > > > archaeological world, probably because this danger does not
> exist.
> > > > As some of you may know, I met less than a month ago
(together
> > with
> > > > other Italic citizens) D.ssa Irene Iacopi, chief of the
> > Archeological
> > > > area of Palatine hill (and Roman Forum) about the Magna Mater
> > > > project. During this meeting nothing was said about something
> > wrong
> > > > in the hill. D.ssa Iacopi also added that the works of
> > restoration of
> > > > the south western side of the hill are almost completed and
the
> > site
> > > > was to be reopened later (before summer).
> > > > I have contacted also Professor Patrizio Pensabene of Rome
> > > > University "La Sapienza", he being the archeologist who's
been
> > > > following the restoration in that area for the past 25 years,
> and
> > he
> > > > didn't mention the fact. Instead he proposed us some
important
> > ways
> > > > of collaboration with Soprintendenza Archeologica, which will
> be
> > > > communicated to you by our Senior Aedile later as more
> > information
> > > > and agreements are gained!
> > >
> > > When I read the original French news article in Lucius Rutilius
> > > Minervalis' main list post, I tried to meet his request for a
> quick
> > > translation into English as a favour for a fellow civis. I
deeply
> > > apologise if inaccurate information has been circulated
thereby.
> It
> > > read like most any French newspaper article and I had no reason
to
> > > doubt it on its face. I'm not particularly following current
> > > archaeological reports on the Palatine at this point, but I
shall
> > try
> > > to do some fact-checking of my own before translating any future
> > > "news" story for the main list again. I'd very much appreciate
> > being
> > > current on the arrangements our Italian citizens are making
with
> the
> > > archaeological authorities.
> > >
> > > Vale.
> > >
> > > G. Iulius Scaurus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Quintus Sertorius (Running out of sources) |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@yahoo.com.au> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 18:18:55 +1000 (EST) |
|
Salvete omnes,
I am looking for information on Quintus Sertorius,
preferably ancient sources, but there is very little
to be found. I've already looked in Appian, Sallust,
Plutarch and Frontinus, and I was wondering if anyone
can help with some names of decent sources?
Vale bene,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] (unknown) |
| From: |
"Marcus Iulius " <m_iulius@virgilio.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 09:24:14 +0000 |
|
M IVL PERVSIANVS QVIRITIBVS SPD
as written some weeks ago, I was trying to make a list of Roman bridges
in the world. In the following link you can see it, together with a list
of amphitheatres and arches which I made previously.
http://www.geocities.com/milko_anselmi/Roma/georomW.htm
I thank who helped me adding new sites and data (first of all some citizens
of Hispania Province);
any further information and suggestion is appreciated.
Valete
Marcus Iulius Perusianus
-------------------------
Legatus Internis Rebus et Scriba ad historiam Provinciae Italiae
Scriba Aedilis Historicus Primus
Scriba Curatoris Differum
-------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/m_iulius
http://italia.novaroma.org
http://italia.novaroma.org/fac
-------------------------
AEQVAM MEMENTO REBVS IN ARDVIS SERVARE MENTEM
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: statement as dominus factionis veneta |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 09:48:22 -0000 |
|
Salve Illustrus Dominus Octavianus,
it's not too late to come back ;-) and I'm very happy to see you
again.
Factio Veneta need you as chief, the blue flag is in the last
position in the general place-lists. The few players running in the
last Ludi have been expulsed for dirty actions and the Praesina and
Albata go away.
Illustrus Dominus, drive your Factio to the victory!
Good Luck!
Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel O. Villanueva"
<danielovi@c...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes members of factio veneta.
> I apologize, for not being active as dominus factionis veneta
during the last Ludi this month, but I knew about it when it was too
late.
> Bene valete
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Dominus factionis veneta
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Return from yet another computer calamity |
| From: |
"Gaius Minucius Hadrianus" <hadrianus@shinjikun.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 06:06:43 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
Well I'm back from internet exile after enduring another computer
meltdown, and I would like to apologize for my long absence. I also
apologize to any one who has tried to contact me via e-mail the last 4
weeks, and would ask any such people to resend their messages to my new
e-mail address at hadrianus@shinjikun.com. It's good to be back!
Valete,
C. Minucius Hadrianus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Quintus Sertorius (Running out of sources) |
| From: |
ames0826@cs.com |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 08:12:10 EDT |
|
Colleen McCullough had a great deal to say about Sertorius, although a lot of
it was certainly a good novelist's imagination. She offers a bibliography of
her sources to any one who asks for one. Perhaps you could find something
new and valuable that way.
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Caesar Miniseries |
| From: |
"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 13:25:29 -0000 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
Turner Network TV (TNT)is showing a 4 hour miniseries on G. Julius
Caesar beginning June 29th.
It looks to be full of historical inaccuracy (for example: "Harris
will play Sulla, the tyrannical commander-in-chief of the Roman
army"), but should still be some fun.
Here's the link for more:
http://www.tnt.tv/Movies/Caesar/0,14158,~TNTOriginals,00.html
Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Questions on Citizenship and the Forum |
| From: |
Mike Elkins <Mike@Elkins.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 09:06:46 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
So, I'm aware that gaining citizenship in the early empire was possible but
not easy for foreigners, and that there were several lesser forms given out
as rewards (for instance, the Latin Rights?) My first question is this,
how much service would a group of foreigners have to do for the
emperor/empire to be realistically granted citizenship? How about
individuals from that group? If the answer is "wouldn't happen", then what
forms of lesser rights might be offered? Would they be able to buy
property in Rome?
Here is a second question: if you wanted to put on a small public
performance (the size of a puppet show, not an actual play) where could you
set it up? Would the forum be available to newcomers? Would you have to
purchase an area like at a flea market?
Many thanks in advance,
Mike Elkins (who will choose a name when he is sure he understands all the
connotations of his choice :)
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Questions on Citizenship and the Forum |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 07:40:32 -0700 |
|
Ave Mike Elkins,
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Elkins
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 6:06 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Questions on Citizenship and the Forum
Salvete,
So, I'm aware that gaining citizenship in the early empire was possible but
not easy for foreigners, and that there were several lesser forms given out
as rewards (for instance, the Latin Rights?)
Sulla: It was difficult gaining citizenship during the Republic. By the time of the Empire, gaining citizenship was easier to where Emperor Caracalla via an edictum awarded all free men in the Empire citizenship.
My first question is this,
how much service would a group of foreigners have to do for the
emperor/empire to be realistically granted citizenship?
Sulla: It would depend. The one area that this is documented would be for those non-citizens who entered military service as Auxilia. They would need to serve for 25 years.
How about
individuals from that group?
Sulla: In the (Late) Republic it was common for commanders to award citizenship on those individuals who assisted him. I think one of the best examples is when Gn. Pompeius Magnus awarded citizenship to Lucius Cornelius Balbus for services rendered during his tenure in Spain.
If the answer is "wouldn't happen", then what
forms of lesser rights might be offered?
Sulla: Latin Rights would have been offered during the Republic. But, if I recall correctly that fell into disuse after the Social War.
Would they be able to buy
property in Rome?
Sulla: Interesting question. That I do not know.
Here is a second question: if you wanted to put on a small public
performance (the size of a puppet show, not an actual play) where could you
set it up?
Sulla: Are you talking about in ancient Rome or here in Nova Roma?
Would the forum be available to newcomers? Would you have to
purchase an area like at a flea market?
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: nova roma citizenship |
| From: |
"L. Didius Geminus Sceptius" <sceptia@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 14:47:39 -0000 |
|
Salve Iris!
[ESPAÑOL]
Soy L. Didius Geminus Sceptius, de Mantua Carpetanorum (Madrid). Si lo
deseas, además de solicitar la ciudadanía como Paulinus te ha
descrito, puedes unirte al foro en español de NRHispania:
nrhispania-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Allí te podremos ayudar (Y a cualquier otro hispano :-D) a conocer a
qué nos dedicamos, y podrás comprobar que hay unos cuantos ciudadanos
de por aquellas tierras... :)
[ENGLISH]
I'm L. Didius Geminus Sceptius, from Mantua Carpetanorum (Madrid). If
you wish appart from apply for the citizenship as Paulinus described
you can join the spanish fora of NRHispania:
nrhispania-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
There we'll help you -and any other hispanian to know what do we look
for and find some other citizens from that land... :)
vale bene,
sceptius
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "iris_serva" <iris_serva@h...>
wrote:
> salve!
> I would like to become a citizen of nova roma but I don't know
> exactly what to do. Please, if you are a member of nova roma, I'm
> looking for your help.
> I'm a 18 years old girl from barcelona and I'm very interested in
> everyday's life in pompei. I can speak french, spanish and I
> understand italian or swedish. My english, as you see, is not good
> enough but I can communicate.
> gratias ago
> vale
> Iris
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Caesar Miniseries |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 15:43:17 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<ksterne@b...> wrote:
Salve Gai,
Thank you for the notice. I look forward to seeing the series;
accuracy aside, I hope it will help promote more interest in Rome.
Vale,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Turner Network TV (TNT)is showing a 4 hour miniseries on G. Julius
> Caesar beginning June 29th.
>
> It looks to be full of historical inaccuracy (for example: "Harris
> will play Sulla, the tyrannical commander-in-chief of the Roman
> army"), but should still be some fun.
>
> Here's the link for more:
>
> http://www.tnt.tv/Movies/Caesar/0,14158,~TNTOriginals,00.html
>
> Valete,
> Gaius Popillius Laenas
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Questions on Citizenship and the Forum |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 12:08:12 -0400 |
|
Salve, Mike -
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 09:06:46AM -0400, Mike Elkins wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> So, I'm aware that gaining citizenship in the early empire was possible but
> not easy for foreigners, and that there were several lesser forms given out
> as rewards (for instance, the Latin Rights?) My first question is this,
> how much service would a group of foreigners have to do for the
> emperor/empire to be realistically granted citizenship? How about
> individuals from that group?
I will readily admit that I am not an expert in these matters - and I
would imagine that those who are will correct me if I'm wrong - but the
above seems to have required extraordinary service, tinged with a flavor
of "THIS is how a True Roman would act!". As such, I don't think you
could set a firm measure on how much was "sufficient". As L. Cornelius
Sulla has pointed out, 25 years of service in the Auxilia was considered
that way... but if you think of the span, the chances of surviving that
term of service, you can see that it, too, fits the term
"extraordinary".
> If the answer is "wouldn't happen", then what
> forms of lesser rights might be offered?
IIRC, Latin rights (or some "custom-designed" subsets of rights) were
granted to many foreigners who cooperated closely with Rome, as for
example for someone governing a city under the aegis of Rome.
> Here is a second question: if you wanted to put on a small public set
> it up? Would the forum be available to newcomers? Would you have to
> purchase an area like at a flea market?
My guess with regard to the forum - although I have no references for it
- would be "no". In the markets, nearly anything would be fine as long
as it didn't violate the law; I can't see that a puppet show would have
been a problem.
> Many thanks in advance,
> Mike Elkins (who will choose a name when he is sure he understands all the
> connotations of his choice :)
I assume you've read "how to choose a name" at NR's main site? If you
haven't, I believe you'll find it helpful:
<http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names.html>
Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Vare, legiones redde!
Varus, give me back my legions!
-- Augustus, upon hearing that governor Quintilius Varus and three
legions had been killed in an ambush in the Teutoburger Forest.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Caesar Miniseries |
| From: |
lanius117@aol.com |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 12:15:02 -0400 |
|
Salve,G. Popillius Laenas
I echo my cousin's sentiments and I also wish to thank you personally for this advance notice of what will be must viewing on my part.
Vale,
G. Lanius Falco
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa |
| From: |
"Daniel O. Villanueva" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 18:03:01 -0300 |
|
Ex officio tribuni plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus omnibus plebeiis S.P.D.
Here below are the results of the fifth runoff elections (May 4th to 11th 2003) given to me by the rogatores. No candidate won 18 tribes. Therefore we still have no fifth Tribune.
Tribes Won (Uncontested)
Gaius Geminius Germanus: 1 Tribe
Gaius Modius Athanasius: 11 Tribes
Gaius Popillius Laenas: 11 Tribes
Marianus Adrianus Sarus (Write-In): 1 Tribe
Count with Ties Resolved
Gaius Modius Athanasius: 13 Tribes
Gaius Popillius Laenas: 15 Tribes
Scribebam Bonariae a.d.III Id. Mai. MMDCCLVI A.V.C. (May 13th 2003)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Away for two trips |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 23:09:34 +0200 |
|
Salve Amice!
Of course we will come! ;-)
>Salve Illustrus Consul et Amice,
>
>have a nice trip in Germany. Berlin is wonderful and I think you'll
>like it (when I went in Berlin, I was reading the phanta-political
>romances by Harris ...).
>
>Please, can you confirm your partecipation to the Rally 2756 and of
>your friends? Thank you again and I wait for you in Bologna! :-)
>
>Vale bene
>Fr. Apulus Caesar
>
>
>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
><christer.edling@t...> wrote:
>> Salvete Quirites!
>>
>> I am going to Berlin for a few days (14th of May to 18th of May)
>and
>> less then 14 days later (31th of May to 8th of May) I am going to
>> Rhodes and then there are a month of exams to work with. This will
>> mean that I will be ockupied or busy for parts of this month. I
>hope
>> that it will not be too inconvenient to all Quirites. ;-)
>>
>> By the way, a late Congratulation to Illustrus Senator Lucius
>> Cornelius Sulla Felix!
>> --
>>
>> Vale
>>
>> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
>> Senior Consul et Senator
>> Propraetor Thules
>> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
>> Civis Romanus sum
>> ************************************************
>> Cohors Consulis CFQ
>> http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
>> ************************************************
>> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
>> "I'll either find a way or make one"
>> ************************************************
>> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
>> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 14:34:49 -0700 |
|
Avete Tribunes et Omnes,
Its unfortunate that we do not have a resolution to this issue. Maybe if there is another run-off you might want to try to include some voter reform on the next summons of the Comitia Plebis Tributa to say...drop off the lowest candidate and remove the write-in portions as options during run-off elections?
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel O. Villanueva
To: ComitiaPlebisTributa ; NovaRoma-Announce ; Nova-Roma
Cc: NR_Argentina ; Tribunes
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa
Ex officio tribuni plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus omnibus plebeiis S.P.D.
Here below are the results of the fifth runoff elections (May 4th to 11th 2003) given to me by the rogatores. No candidate won 18 tribes. Therefore we still have no fifth Tribune.
Tribes Won (Uncontested)
Gaius Geminius Germanus: 1 Tribe
Gaius Modius Athanasius: 11 Tribes
Gaius Popillius Laenas: 11 Tribes
Marianus Adrianus Sarus (Write-In): 1 Tribe
Count with Ties Resolved
Gaius Modius Athanasius: 13 Tribes
Gaius Popillius Laenas: 15 Tribes
Scribebam Bonariae a.d.III Id. Mai. MMDCCLVI A.V.C. (May 13th 2003)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 22:11:04 -0000 |
|
Salvete Luci et Luci,
Maybe a little reform should be in order as Sulla suggests. My
question at this point is that after another run off election,
whoever gets in is only going to be Tribune for 6 months or less. Is
6 months or less enough time to be worth while to the new Tribune or
NR? That is a lot of valuable productivity as well as learning lost.
Respectfully,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Avete Tribunes et Omnes,
>
> Its unfortunate that we do not have a resolution to this issue.
Maybe if there is another run-off you might want to try to include
some voter reform on the next summons of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
to say...drop off the lowest candidate and remove the write-in
portions as options during run-off elections?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel O. Villanueva
> To: ComitiaPlebisTributa ; NovaRoma-Announce ; Nova-Roma
> Cc: NR_Argentina ; Tribunes
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:03 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa
>
>
> Ex officio tribuni plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus omnibus
plebeiis S.P.D.
>
> Here below are the results of the fifth runoff elections (May 4th
to 11th 2003) given to me by the rogatores. No candidate won 18
tribes. Therefore we still have no fifth Tribune.
>
> Tribes Won (Uncontested)
>
> Gaius Geminius Germanus: 1 Tribe
> Gaius Modius Athanasius: 11 Tribes
> Gaius Popillius Laenas: 11 Tribes
> Marianus Adrianus Sarus (Write-In): 1 Tribe
>
> Count with Ties Resolved
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius: 13 Tribes
> Gaius Popillius Laenas: 15 Tribes
>
> Scribebam Bonariae a.d.III Id. Mai. MMDCCLVI A.V.C. (May 13th
2003)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> 2003 Mini Cooper2003 Nissan 350Z2003 BMW M32003
Honda Accord2003 Toyota Camrymore...
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 15:15:41 -0700 |
|
Ave!
There are a few laws that might have an impact on this. For example, the Lex Gryllia de Securandis Magistratus Plebis might have to be implemented or at least looked into (http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-11-14-i.html) and there are a number of other laws that might need to be looked into as well.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:11 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa
Salvete Luci et Luci,
Maybe a little reform should be in order as Sulla suggests. My
question at this point is that after another run off election,
whoever gets in is only going to be Tribune for 6 months or less. Is
6 months or less enough time to be worth while to the new Tribune or
NR? That is a lot of valuable productivity as well as learning lost.
Respectfully,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Avete Tribunes et Omnes,
>
> Its unfortunate that we do not have a resolution to this issue.
Maybe if there is another run-off you might want to try to include
some voter reform on the next summons of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
to say...drop off the lowest candidate and remove the write-in
portions as options during run-off elections?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel O. Villanueva
> To: ComitiaPlebisTributa ; NovaRoma-Announce ; Nova-Roma
> Cc: NR_Argentina ; Tribunes
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:03 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa
>
>
> Ex officio tribuni plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus omnibus
plebeiis S.P.D.
>
> Here below are the results of the fifth runoff elections (May 4th
to 11th 2003) given to me by the rogatores. No candidate won 18
tribes. Therefore we still have no fifth Tribune.
>
> Tribes Won (Uncontested)
>
> Gaius Geminius Germanus: 1 Tribe
> Gaius Modius Athanasius: 11 Tribes
> Gaius Popillius Laenas: 11 Tribes
> Marianus Adrianus Sarus (Write-In): 1 Tribe
>
> Count with Ties Resolved
>
> Gaius Modius Athanasius: 13 Tribes
> Gaius Popillius Laenas: 15 Tribes
>
> Scribebam Bonariae a.d.III Id. Mai. MMDCCLVI A.V.C. (May 13th
2003)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Questions on Citizenship and the Forum |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br> |
| Date: |
13 May 2003 19:30:40 -0300 |
|
On Tue, 2003-05-13 at 10:06, Mike Elkins wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> So, I'm aware that gaining citizenship in the early empire was possible but
> not easy for foreigners, and that there were several lesser forms given out
> as rewards (for instance, the Latin Rights?) My first question is this,
> how much service would a group of foreigners have to do for the
> emperor/empire to be realistically granted citizenship? How about
> individuals from that group? If the answer is "wouldn't happen", then what
> forms of lesser rights might be offered? Would they be able to buy
> property in Rome?
>
What is a foreigner?
For citizens of the cities located in the provinces, they were usually
rewarded with the Roman citizenship after being Duovir in their local
city.
This brought an extra burden on the remainder of the citizens of their
local city since Roman citizens were exempted of the tribute, and the
tribute was collected on a per city base.
We have many letters to the Flavian Emperors (end of 1st cent.) from the
hispanian cities which ask not to give roman citizenship anymore to
their duovirs, which leads to suppose that this was in effect fpr
sometime at the end of the 1st century.
Claudius introduced many Gauls in the senate (Lugdunum speech) which
leads us to conclude that this gauls were already citizens before that.
Non-citizens had the right of property in Rome.
> Here is a second question: if you wanted to put on a small public
> performance (the size of a puppet show, not an actual play) where could you
> set it up? Would the forum be available to newcomers? Would you have to
> purchase an area like at a flea market?
>
The forum was the market, so definitively yes it was available.
I don' t know for the area purchasing.
> Many thanks in advance,
> Mike Elkins (who will choose a name when he is sure he understands all the
> connotations of his choice :)
>
Praenomen and Cognomen have no connotations you are free to choose them
(with the limitation of being latin names)
the Nomen will put you in a family, so choose wisely your pater
familias, try to contact him begorehand and check if you are in
agreement.
Vale
Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 22:34:18 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
Ave Luci!
I checked out the law. Hope its implemented to give the Tribune a
good chance.
Respectfully,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> Ave!
>
> There are a few laws that might have an impact on this. For
example, the Lex Gryllia de Securandis Magistratus Plebis might have
to be implemented or at least looked into
(http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-11-14-i.html) and
there are a number of other laws that might need to be looked into as
well.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:11 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa
>
>
> Salvete Luci et Luci,
>
> Maybe a little reform should be in order as Sulla suggests. My
> question at this point is that after another run off election,
> whoever gets in is only going to be Tribune for 6 months or less.
Is
> 6 months or less enough time to be worth while to the new Tribune
or
> NR? That is a lot of valuable productivity as well as learning
lost.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
> <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Avete Tribunes et Omnes,
> >
> > Its unfortunate that we do not have a resolution to this
issue.
> Maybe if there is another run-off you might want to try to
include
> some voter reform on the next summons of the Comitia Plebis
Tributa
> to say...drop off the lowest candidate and remove the write-in
> portions as options during run-off elections?
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Daniel O. Villanueva
> > To: ComitiaPlebisTributa ; NovaRoma-Announce ; Nova-Roma
> > Cc: NR_Argentina ; Tribunes
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:03 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa
> >
> >
> > Ex officio tribuni plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus omnibus
> plebeiis S.P.D.
> >
> > Here below are the results of the fifth runoff elections (May
4th
> to 11th 2003) given to me by the rogatores. No candidate won 18
> tribes. Therefore we still have no fifth Tribune.
> >
> > Tribes Won (Uncontested)
> >
> > Gaius Geminius Germanus: 1 Tribe
> > Gaius Modius Athanasius: 11 Tribes
> > Gaius Popillius Laenas: 11 Tribes
> > Marianus Adrianus Sarus (Write-In): 1 Tribe
> >
> > Count with Ties Resolved
> >
> > Gaius Modius Athanasius: 13 Tribes
> > Gaius Popillius Laenas: 15 Tribes
> >
> > Scribebam Bonariae a.d.III Id. Mai. MMDCCLVI A.V.C. (May 13th
> 2003)
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > 2003 Mini Cooper2003 Nissan 350Z2003 BMW
M32003
> Honda Accord2003 Toyota Camrymore...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 15:41:57 -0700 |
|
Avete Q. Lanius et Omnes,
Who knows what might eventually happen. However, the law I quoted was just one of many that will definitely need to be discussed by the Tribunes themselves and eventually by the Senate if it ends up going that route.
Having the Senate get involved in determining who is to become a Tribune of the Plebs is a very serious course of action to follow. I do not believe the ancients would have ever used that remedy given the inherent conflict and checks/balances that the Tribunate was supposed to serve. This type of precedent should be very carefully thought-out before a course of action is adopted.
On a more personal level, I just hope that if there is another election for Tribune of the Plebs it will coincide with substantial election reform that can be voted on by the Plebs so that we wont have to encounter this type of situation again.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:34 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
Ave Luci!
I checked out the law. Hope its implemented to give the Tribune a
good chance.
Respectfully,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> Ave!
>
> There are a few laws that might have an impact on this. For
example, the Lex Gryllia de Securandis Magistratus Plebis might have
to be implemented or at least looked into
(http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/1999-11-14-i.html) and
there are a number of other laws that might need to be looked into as
well.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:11 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa
>
>
> Salvete Luci et Luci,
>
> Maybe a little reform should be in order as Sulla suggests. My
> question at this point is that after another run off election,
> whoever gets in is only going to be Tribune for 6 months or less.
Is
> 6 months or less enough time to be worth while to the new Tribune
or
> NR? That is a lot of valuable productivity as well as learning
lost.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
> <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Avete Tribunes et Omnes,
> >
> > Its unfortunate that we do not have a resolution to this
issue.
> Maybe if there is another run-off you might want to try to
include
> some voter reform on the next summons of the Comitia Plebis
Tributa
> to say...drop off the lowest candidate and remove the write-in
> portions as options during run-off elections?
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Daniel O. Villanueva
> > To: ComitiaPlebisTributa ; NovaRoma-Announce ; Nova-Roma
> > Cc: NR_Argentina ; Tribunes
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:03 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Voting results. Comitia plebis tributa
> >
> >
> > Ex officio tribuni plebis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus omnibus
> plebeiis S.P.D.
> >
> > Here below are the results of the fifth runoff elections (May
4th
> to 11th 2003) given to me by the rogatores. No candidate won 18
> tribes. Therefore we still have no fifth Tribune.
> >
> > Tribes Won (Uncontested)
> >
> > Gaius Geminius Germanus: 1 Tribe
> > Gaius Modius Athanasius: 11 Tribes
> > Gaius Popillius Laenas: 11 Tribes
> > Marianus Adrianus Sarus (Write-In): 1 Tribe
> >
> > Count with Ties Resolved
> >
> > Gaius Modius Athanasius: 13 Tribes
> > Gaius Popillius Laenas: 15 Tribes
> >
> > Scribebam Bonariae a.d.III Id. Mai. MMDCCLVI A.V.C. (May 13th
> 2003)
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 589 |
| From: |
jademermaid@aol.com |
| Date: |
Tue, 13 May 2003 18:24:56 EDT |
|
I'm pretty dim when it comes to Roman history, is this a load of hooey, or is
it really up for debate? It came across my local Pagan list.
Visne saltare?
Violentilla Titinia Saltatrix
> Woman may have founded ancient Rome
>
> By Bruce Johnston in Rome
> (Filed: 22/04/2003)
>
> Rome celebrated its 2,756th birthday yesterday, amid claims that
> the city may have been founded by a Trojan woman called Roma
> and not, as legend has it, by Romulus.
>
> According to Rome's Il Messaggero newspaper, a fragment of
> writing by the Graeco-Sicilian poet Stesichorus (638-555 BC)
> recounts how a woman named Roma arrived with a Trojan fleet
> in an idyllic place that could easily be Rome.
>
> Romulus and Remus
>
> The scene was described as one of enchanting beauty, where
> before the setting sun the visitor was "enticed to dream while
> being caressed by the off-shore breeze".
>
> Roma fell so in love with the spot that she conspired with the
> other women to burn all the ships, so that the party would have to
> stay. Once they were stranded, the group all agreed that they
> should name the place after her.
>
> The tale's claims are strengthened by the fact that Stesichorus
> was born just 115 years after the founding of Rome.
>
> According to legend, Romulus, one of the male twins descended
> from Aeneas, prince of Troy, and suckled by a she-wolf after
> being cast adrift on the Tiber, founded ancient Rome in 753 BC,
> after slaying his brother Remus.
>
> As latter-day Romans mulled over the significance of
> Stesichorus's tale, about 1,000 people dressed as gladiators,
> centurions, emperors and maidens marched through the city
> yesterday led by the "Goddess Roma" clutching a spear and an
> orb.
>
> http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?
> xml=/news/2003/04/22/wrome22.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/22/ixworld.html
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
