| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: reply re Cohors |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Mon, 19 May 2003 20:06:56 -0400 |
|
Salve, Marce Octavi -
(I hope I got that right :)
On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 06:51:08PM -0500, Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> Salve Cai Minuci,
>
> > That's a fairly good question if considered on a broader scale than that
> > of the present moment, actually. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing an
> > edict or a law that would grease the wheels of that particular
> > mechanism, just in case of future need. However, some relevant questions
> > would be:
>
> It's best to keep the arrangement informal - this provides for
> maximum flexibility. The alternation of months is simply a voluntary
> arrangement between the Consuls, and either could become "active" if
> his colleague was absent or otherwise occupied.
I saw the previous post by Decius Iunius Palladius, and agree
completely; I was simply unaware of the current system. Where there's an
arrangement that works well - and as described, it certainly sounds like
it - I far prefer that it be left alone rather than cluttering the
system with an unnecessary law.
> > 2) What happens if a Consul has emergencies come up for two months in a
> > row? Does the other Consul hold the fasces straight through, and is that
> > a fair load on him?
>
> Both Consuls are always fully empowered, and can act if the other has
> no objection. One of them steps back in alternate months merely as
> a courtesy to the other.
That makes sense. My perception had been that the assumption of the
fasces was more like the Ancient Roman system, and that turns out to be
incorrect; I thank you for the clarification.
Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Saepe creat molles aspera spina rosas.
Often the prickly thorn produces tender roses
-- Ovid
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: reply re Cohors |
| From: |
qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com |
| Date: |
Mon, 19 May 2003 20:23:07 EDT |
|
In a message dated 5/19/03 4:53:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, haase@konoko.net
writes:
> The alternation of months is simply a voluntary arrangement between the
> Consuls, and either could become "active" if his colleague was absent or
> otherwise occupied.
>
The idea was instituted in the Early Republic as best I can tell. The idea
was that both Consuls would have equal share in running Rome. I thought it
was ideal demonstration
of the bi legality of the Republican system. The previous Consulships had
demonstrated
one guy in charge while the other stood on the sidelines and watched. Since
we had two
strong personalities involved, I saw it as a recipe for disaster unless a way
to share the limelight was constituted. Hence the revival of the old
Republican tradition.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: reply re Cohors |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Mon, 19 May 2003 20:25:54 -0400 |
|
Salve, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus:
On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 04:03:55PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> Salve Caius Minucius Scaevolae
>
> If a proposed law was drafted that outlined when the Consuls could swap
> months and we ask those who have held this office for their input this law
> could be adopted before the next election and any candidates would know it
> terms and the new Consuls could plan accordingly.
Now that Decius Iunius Palladius and Marcus Octavius Germanicus have
clarified the current informal arrangement, it would seem unnecessary.
The current system works fine, IMO, given that both Consuls are fully
empowered at all times.
> Fortuna Favet Fortibus (is this not right?)
> > Audentes fortuna iuvat.
> > Fortune favours the brave.
> > -- Vergil, "Aenis"
Interestingly enough (I've spent a few minutes Googling for both of
these phrases), it seems that both of these enjoy some currency. The one
I quoted is indeed from Vergil's "Aeneid", while yours is reputed to
have come from Terence. It is also the motto of the Scottish Clan Donal,
was the motto of a New York Fire Company which lost a number of people
on 9/11, and was also the motto of an LRRP unit in Vietnam.
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Audietur et altera pars.
May the other part also be heard.
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Alternate Months |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@webtv.net |
| Date: |
Mon, 19 May 2003 20:51:57 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Just to clarify, Senator Maximus and I utilized the alternate period out
of what we both considered to be a necessity, since I had to undergo and
amputation, and Senator Maximus' sister was involved in a very bad auto
accident. In both of those situations each of us felt that we would not
be available, for an extended length of time too long to leave to
chance, and so we utilized the alternate months. However, it is with a
certain amount of pride that I wish to point out that while we served as
co-Consuls we were never very far from agreement in what we wished to
bring before the citizens of Nova Roma during that period.
It is certainly true that we have had our disagreemnets since our
service together, but during that year I cannot recall a single time
when we were not able to reach a concurrence by internet or by phone on
what we wanted to do, or a single instance when one did not immediately
agree to help the other out as needed and requested. This year of which
I speak, was one which I will remember with fondness for a valued
colleague for a long time, together with the fact that two people, who
have very different views in many areas, were able to come together so
oten and maintain a chain of agreements for the good of Nova Roma in
that year.
Something to do with being in the place where the "buck stops here" I
guess!!!
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: reply re Cohors |
| From: |
"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com> |
| Date: |
Mon, 19 May 2003 20:56:45 -0400 |
|
Salve
I agree. If the Consuls can agree among themselves so much the better. No
need for a new law.
Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Caius Minucius Scaevola" <ben@callahans.org>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: reply re Cohors
> Salve, Marce Octavi -
>
> (I hope I got that right :)
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 06:51:08PM -0500, Marcus Octavius Germanicus
wrote:
> > Salve Cai Minuci,
> >
> > > That's a fairly good question if considered on a broader scale than
that
> > > of the present moment, actually. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing an
> > > edict or a law that would grease the wheels of that particular
> > > mechanism, just in case of future need. However, some relevant
questions
> > > would be:
> >
> > It's best to keep the arrangement informal - this provides for
> > maximum flexibility. The alternation of months is simply a voluntary
> > arrangement between the Consuls, and either could become "active" if
> > his colleague was absent or otherwise occupied.
>
> I saw the previous post by Decius Iunius Palladius, and agree
> completely; I was simply unaware of the current system. Where there's an
> arrangement that works well - and as described, it certainly sounds like
> it - I far prefer that it be left alone rather than cluttering the
> system with an unnecessary law.
>
> > > 2) What happens if a Consul has emergencies come up for two months in
a
> > > row? Does the other Consul hold the fasces straight through, and is
that
> > > a fair load on him?
> >
> > Both Consuls are always fully empowered, and can act if the other has
> > no objection. One of them steps back in alternate months merely as
> > a courtesy to the other.
>
> That makes sense. My perception had been that the assumption of the
> fasces was more like the Ancient Roman system, and that turns out to be
> incorrect; I thank you for the clarification.
>
>
> Vale,
> Caius Minucius Scaevola
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Saepe creat molles aspera spina rosas.
> Often the prickly thorn produces tender roses
> -- Ovid
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: reply re Cohors |
| From: |
"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com> |
| Date: |
Mon, 19 May 2003 21:03:22 -0400 |
|
Salve
Agreed
Fortuna Favet Fortibus (is this not right?)
>
> > > Audentes fortuna iuvat.
> > > Fortune favours the brave.
> > > -- Vergil, "Aenis"
>
> Interestingly enough (I've spent a few minutes Googling for both of
> these phrases), it seems that both of these enjoy some currency. The one
> I quoted is indeed from Vergil's "Aeneid", while yours is reputed to
> have come from Terence. It is also the motto of the Scottish Clan Donal,
> was the motto of a New York Fire Company which lost a number of people
> on 9/11, and was also the motto of an LRRP unit in Vietnam.
>
Yes my source is Eugene Ehrlich book Amo, Amas, Amat and more and said it
was from Terence, in Phormio
He says that Fortes Fortuna Iuvat or (Juvat) is
fortune helps the brave.
Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] a few replies |
| From: |
Diana Moravia Aventina <diana_aventina@yahoo.com> |
| Date: |
Mon, 19 May 2003 18:06:10 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete friends! Sorry that I am going to
reply to a few citizens at once.
To Gnaeus Salix Astur,
Yes, i have been afraid to speak my mind,
really believing that i would be torn apart alive
on this list. BUT it hasn't happened and so I
guess that I was just being a bit insecure and
overly nervous! To A
Apollonius Cordus, Sorry for the
sarcasm. I was giggling a bit when I wrote the
part to the Senior Consul in an email to you. So
it was more me having a bit f a sarcastic sense
of humor once in awhile. in any case, as soon as
i get baqck home, i promise to red your emails in
detail and send you a proper answer. Honestly, I
really just missed the fact that they were
official. Again sorry!
To Scaevola, I must be
a sadist and/or a masochist because I enjoy
reading your emails when you get rolling.... Your
stamina is pretty amazing :-) And no one speaks
for me in NR or anywhere else which is probably
the reason that I have the largest collection of
engagemet rings this side of the Atlantic in my
jewelry box :-p
And lastly to Franciscus Apulus
Ceasar, I didn't
mean to insult you about the fact that you are an
elected magistrate who has sworn an oath to the
Senor Consul as an assistant. I just truly
believe that the potential for a conflict of
interest is huge. I dont see this as a problem
ONLY in the cohors consulis but as a potential
problem for NR in the future. It is just that the
CC has the largest amount of appointees who are
also elected officials. So I don't really take
back my words, but I really didn't mean to be
insulting.
To Paulinus: I still haven't managed a margarita
or some Tex Mex or real Mexican yet :-(( Dear
ole' Mom seems to think that I am still 12 years
old and too young to wander off by myself and
have a margarita....I did eat a bagel and some
French toast over the last days. All I need is a
slice of pizza, some poptarts and the Mexican
food and I'll have eaten everything on my list of
American junk food that I can't get on the east
side of the Atlantic :-)
Valete! Diana Moravia
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: reply re Cohors |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?B?R6VJVkxJVlOlU0NBVlJWUw==?= <gfr@intcon.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 01:38:45 -0000 |
|
G. Iulius Scaurus C. Minucio Scaevolae salutem dicit.
Salve, C. Minuci.
> > Fortuna Favet Fortibus (is this not right?)
>
> > > Audentes fortuna iuvat.
> > > Fortune favours the brave.
> > > -- Vergil, "Aenis"
>
> Interestingly enough (I've spent a few minutes Googling for both of
> these phrases), it seems that both of these enjoy some currency. The one
> I quoted is indeed from Vergil's "Aeneid", while yours is reputed to
> have come from Terence. It is also the motto of the Scottish Clan Donal,
> was the motto of a New York Fire Company which lost a number of people
> on 9/11, and was also the motto of an LRRP unit in Vietnam.
The line from Vergil (Aeneid, 10.284) is "audentis fortuna iuvat."
The line from Terence (Phormio, 1.4.25) is "fortes fortuna adiuvat."
Vale.
G. Iulius Scaurus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] a few replies |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Mon, 19 May 2003 22:57:00 -0400 |
|
Salve, Diana!
On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 06:06:10PM -0700, Diana Moravia Aventina wrote:
> To Scaevola, I must be
> a sadist and/or a masochist because I enjoy
> reading your emails when you get rolling.... Your
> stamina is pretty amazing :-)
<tongue in cheek mode> That's why I have the largest black book
this side of the Atlantic. Good looks only take you so far.
> And no one speaks
> for me in NR or anywhere else which is probably
> the reason that I have the largest collection of
> engagemet rings this side of the Atlantic in my
> jewelry box :-p
I don't doubt it in the least. Despite the popular picture of the
Average Male who is theoretically terrified of assertive women, there
are lots of guys who'd settle for nothing less. Ex-biker chick, has her
own mind, is assertive... that ring collection should be very large
indeed. :)
> To Paulinus: I still haven't managed a margarita
> or some Tex Mex or real Mexican yet :-(( Dear
> ole' Mom seems to think that I am still 12 years
> old and too young to wander off by myself and
> have a margarita....I did eat a bagel and some
> French toast over the last days. All I need is a
> slice of pizza, some poptarts and the Mexican
> food and I'll have eaten everything on my list of
> American junk food that I can't get on the east
> side of the Atlantic :-)
If you're looking for good Mexican food in NYC, Veracruz in Williamsburg
(just over the Manhattan Bridge) is Da Place. Fantastic burritos that
take two hands to hold, /pico de gallo/ and /salsa verde/ that's to die
for, really good Margaritas, and they make everything fresh. <quick check>
Yep, looks like they're still in business -
195 Bedford Av, Brooklyn NY 718-599-7914
(Darn, now *I* want some. Where am I going to find a Mexican restaurant
here in Northern Florida, this time of night?)
Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ridentem dicere verum, quid vetat?
What prohibits us to tell the truth laughing (through a joke)?
-- Horace, "Satirae"
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: reply re Cohors |
| From: |
Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org> |
| Date: |
Mon, 19 May 2003 23:07:23 -0400 |
|
On Tue, May 20, 2003 at 01:38:45AM -0000, G¥IVLIVS¥SCAVRVS wrote:
> G. Iulius Scaurus C. Minucio Scaevolae salutem dicit.
>
> Salve, C. Minuci.
Salve, G. Iulius Scaurus -
> The line from Vergil (Aeneid, 10.284) is "audentis fortuna iuvat."
> The line from Terence (Phormio, 1.4.25) is "fortes fortuna adiuvat."
Much appreciated; I'll correct/update the entries in my quote file
(which I would imagine contains far worse errors.) My copy of the Aeneid
is in English, and I do not have anything by Terence at all.
Vale,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Concordia parvae res crescunt, discordia maximae dilabuntur.
Through unity the small thing grows, through disunity the largest thing crumbles.
-- Sallust, "Jugurtha"
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: a few replies |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 06:47:21 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Diana.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Diana Moravia Aventina
<diana_aventina@y...> wrote:
> To Gnaeus Salix Astur,
> Yes, i have been afraid to speak my mind,
> really believing that i would be torn apart alive
> on this list. BUT it hasn't happened and so I
> guess that I was just being a bit insecure and
> overly nervous!
I am happy to see that everything is solved now.
CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Ephesus |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?B?R6VJVkxJVlOlU0NBVlJWUw==?= <gfr@intcon.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 07:13:38 -0000 |
|
G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.
Avete, Quirites.
Here's a link to an online tour of Ephesus, the capital of the
province of Asia:
http://www.focusmm.com/aceph_0.htm
The site was created by "Focus on the World" online magazine. While
the article has, as one might expect, a touristic tone, the
photographs are splendid. On a more serious note, the Perseus Project
has a catalog entry on Ephesus with links to excavations and artifacts:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/siteindex?lookup=Ephesos
Valete, Quirites.
G. Iulius Scaurus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Peculiar things... |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 07:24:18 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quirites; et salve, M. Octavi Solaris.
With your permission, cives, I would like to make a few comments on
one of Solaris's latest messages.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Octavius Solaris"
<scorpioinvictus@h...> wrote:
<<snipped>>
> I recall that there once was a time here when criticising the so-
> called 'zombie magistrates' was considered not done. 'Zombie
> magistrates' were the type of lads and lasses who, once elected,
> did *absolutely nothing* but collecting mothballs and - when they
> felt like it - voting in the Senate, to which they had been
> elevated although they had done nothing more than being elected.
> There are numerous examples in the lists and annals of ex-
> magistrates no one has ever heard of. Luckily times have changed
> for the better in this respect, but I simply remark that among
> those who now criticise the senior consul, there are people who
> used to defend the 'zombie magistrates' two years back.
I remember it, my friend.
It is true. We had a *real* problem with inactive magistrates a few
years ago. And I would say that Quintillianus did a lot to change
that trend during his term as aedilis. He was an example to any
Novoroman magistrate.
> But let me ask Quintilianus' opponents another question: what is it
> that you really *expect* him to do? No one seems to have concrete
> proposals, except for Sulla who hinted at creating legislation to
> leave his mark, but I think we will all agree that you can't just
> make legislation for the sake of making legislation.
I fully agree with you there.
I think that drafting legislation is a serious business, that needs
much thinking and much talking. The goal of legislation is *not* to
serve as a monument to a magistrate; it is to rule our relationship,
to help our Nation's growth.
Anyone can write a law in five minutes. But a *good* law simply takes
more time.
> Let me tell you this, however: I, *too*, await some results of a
> consular staff of 25 people but you'll all have to admit that we're
> not even halfway the year yet, and you'd be holding Quintilianus to
> higher standards than you ever held former magistrates by.
I think that Quintillianus is actually quite happy with those higher
standards :-).
We all expect much from our current consules, because we have seen
them doing much in the past. Let us give them the opportunity to
prove their worth (once again). And, if they succeed, we will have to
remember it; that would be the fair thing to do.
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: a few replies |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 08:17:49 -0000 |
|
Salve Diana,
> And lastly to Franciscus Apulus
> Ceasar, I didn't
> mean to insult you about the fact that you are an
> elected magistrate who has sworn an oath to the
> Senor Consul as an assistant. I just truly
> believe that the potential for a conflict of
> interest is huge. I dont see this as a problem
> ONLY in the cohors consulis but as a potential
> problem for NR in the future. It is just that the
> CC has the largest amount of appointees who are
> also elected officials. So I don't really take
> back my words, but I really didn't mean to be
> insulting.
Diana, ok, I understand your position and your good intentions.
Yes, in some points I agree, but this is Ars Politica, this is the
ancient and modern way to govern. The majority of a political system
are all in the same factio, this is the result of the elections.
In each system there is the high risk to have a conflict of interest
and the "adulte" systems are able to avoid it. Is Nova Roma an adult
political system able to avoit it? I think yes.
When we are appointed as magistrates we gave an Oath to the Res
Publica and this is the most important statement here and for us.
Nobody and nothing must cancel the Oath and it's my first "goal". If
my friend and Consul Quintilianus make some "bad actions" in the
market place, the friendship and the factio will not exist for me,
because I'm a Magistrate serving the Res Publica. I think this is
normal and accepted by each Magistrate.
At the end, I 'm happy to know you didn't want insult and I thank
you. :-)
Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Nova Roman Meeting '56, subscriptions |
| From: |
"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 10:19:06 -0000 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
I remember you all the subscriptions to the International Nova Roman
Rally in Bologna (Italy) from 1th to 3th August 2003.
Subscribe is very easy, visit
http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus/meeting
There is also a special mailing list for the Meeting's partecipants
at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomanMeeting2003 where we'll
give you all the informations about.
I invite who have subscribed the meeting before May to re-contact me
to the confirmation.
Hurry up, Nova Romans, enjoy the Meeting!
Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Join the International Nova Roman Rally in Bologna (Italy) |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 13:15:11 +0200 |
|
Salkvete Quirites!
Last year I had the privilege to take the initiative to and lead the
first International Nova Roman Rally in Belgium in my capacity as
Senior Aedile. This year's Senior Aedile has taken upon himself to,
together with his Cohors and Italia Provincia, organize another Rally
in Bologna in Italy.
Hereby I publicly support this important initiative and encourage
Senators, Magistrati and all citizens of Nova Roma to join with me
and other citizens in Bologna in the beginning of August this year.
Together with other citizens I will also go to Roma Aeterna for one
or two weeks after the Rally. I hereby invite other citizens to join
me and my friends there too.
Don't make the mistake to think that I only want to see close friends
in Bologna and Roma. I would really enjoy to see as many as possible
of my "opponents" there. I have already discussed this possibility
with some of those that I am sure don't want to call themselves my
supporters. ;-) Now it is my hope that as many as possible among the
citizens will see each other in Italy!
I have had the privilege to meet some citizens in person and I think
that it would help us to make the relations between opponents a bit
warmer and more personal. To change the inner climate in Nova Roma
would be very good for Nova Roma's possibility to grow and prosper in
the future!
I hope to see more than one hundred citizens in Bologna and Roma this
coming August! ;-)
>Salvete Omnes,
>I remember you all the subscriptions to the International Nova Roman
>Rally in Bologna (Italy) from 1th to 3th August 2003.
>Subscribe is very easy, visit
>http://aediles.novaroma.org/apulus/meeting
>
>There is also a special mailing list for the Meeting's partecipants
>at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomanMeeting2003 where we'll
>give you all the informations about.
>
>I invite who have subscribed the meeting before May to re-contact me
>to the confirmation.
>
>Hurry up, Nova Romans, enjoy the Meeting!
>
>Valete
>Fr. Apulus Caesar
>Senior Curule Aedile
--
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Aerarium Saturni section |
| From: |
Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 07:48:31 -0400 |
|
My apologies, Titus Arminius! The link has been fixed, and I appreciate
your calling it to my attention.
-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Isis Cult |
| From: |
"iris_serva" <iris_serva@hotmail.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 09:27:36 -0000 |
|
Salvete!
I'm Drusilla Lania Iris and I'm interested in the Isis cult. There
are two priests in Nova Roma site. I've tried to e-mail them but it
doesn't works. Help me, please.
Gratias Ago
Iris
P.S Sorry about my english!!!!
P.S II - I speak french, spanish and bad english!
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Isis Cult |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 15:22:40 -0000 |
|
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "iris_serva" <iris_serva@h...>
wrote:
> Salvete!
> I'm Drusilla Lania Iris and I'm interested in the Isis cult. There
> are two priests in Nova Roma site. I've tried to e-mail them but it
> doesn't works. Help me, please.
> Gratias Ago
> Iris
> P.S Sorry about my english!!!!
> P.S II - I speak french, spanish and bad english!
Salve Cousin Drusilla,
Your English is good enough. If you keep writing to us on the main
list your English will get perfect very fast. Good work!
I'm sure some of the priests will answer you soon. The priests also
hold other offices in Nova Roma and I believe a few are away either
organizing some events or looking after some family problems.
I'll try to start a discussion here:
Isis was and is to some people the most long lasting godess of the
ancient world. Originally she was one of the great goddesses of
ancient Egypt. She was the sister and girlfriend of Osiris and she
put him back together after he had been cut to pieces by his evil
brother set. She later became pregnent by dead Orisis. She gave birth
to a son called Horus who later took revenge on set.
Over time, Isis became a fertility god and a universal Mother figure.
By the 2 century BC, sailors and traders were bringing her cultic
influences throughout the Mediterranean world. In the Greek areas
Isis became identified with Demeter but her statues assumed the more
Greek - like appearences. They soon began appearing in Africa, Asia
minor and Spain.
On many occasions there was popular resistance to foreign cults in
the Roman Empire but Isis was far more successful than other gods.
Her followers moved from Pompeii and by 50 BC a temple was erected to
her in Rome. Her greatest moment in Rome came thanks to the Emperor
Caligula. He built a large temple for her in the Campus Martius. She
got the title " Isis Campensis".
Now the temple of Isis had elaborate ceremonies and complex mysteries.
Her high disciplined priests dressed in white linen garments and
performed beautiful rituals with music. There was a well organized
spiritual structure that was easy for her followers to understand and
practice. Isis lasted for centuries but her position was eventually
replaced by Christianity's Madonna.
I think her similarities to the Virgin Mary are interesting; she was
impregnated by another god, had a son who took revenge on set who was
a snake - like god and evil like the devil(I think). Perhaps some of
our Christian belief in Mary evolved from her. I'll have to read more
on that.
My question to my Pagan brothers and sisteres in NR. Is this cult of
Isis still practiced in the world and would you tell Drusill and me
more about the rituals?
Respectfully,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] CALL FOR COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA: Edictum Consulare CFQ VII de Comitiorum Populi Tributorum Convocatione |
| From: |
"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 16:40:48 -0000 |
|
Salve,
On ledice by this pretty good proposal, some comments:
I´ve translated Lex Cornelia and had some problem with this terms,
bulk email, surface email et alli. They are a little bit confusing
for non-english speakers. I recommend that on the text of the law,
they are changed by other terms to make clearer.
IV.
>
> IV. "Inactive" citizens are those who fail to meet at least one of
> the conditions in III. The following will lay down some of the
> procedures to contact inactive citizens. Inactive citizens are
those
> who will need to be contacted by the National Census. The following
> methods will be used to contact inactive citizens:
> A. Bulk Email. At least two attempts should be done to contact
> citizen via this avenue.
> B. Surface mail. "Inactive" Citizens who are unreachable by email
> shall receive a mailing. This shall be done on the provincial level
> by Governors and legati under the supervision of the Censors. In
> those Provinciae where there aare not a Governor and in those areas
> not included in a Provincia yet the Censors shall ask a Governor of
a
> Provincia as near as possible to where that "inactive" Citizen
lives.
> If this is not possible it shall be
> done by the Censors. Surface mail information should be forwarded
to
> whatever official Nova Roman address that is specified by the
> Censors. Surface mail information must reach the Censors before the
> "Pridie Kal. Novembris" (the 31st of October). The Current Official
> address of all Nova Roman Mail correspondence is:
> Nova Roma
> P.O. Box 1897
> Wells, ME 04090
> At the time of the passage of this lex, the above address is the
> official address; if the official address changes in the future,
the
> new address should be utilized.
> C. Phone calls. If a Citizen is unreachable by e-mail or surface
> mail, he/she shall be contacted by phone. This shall be done on the
> provincial level by Governors and legati under the supervision of
the
> Censors. In those Provinciae where there is not a Governor and in
> those areas not included in a Provincia yet this shall be optional,
> and it can be done by the Governor of a Provincia as near as
possible
> to where the "inactive" Citizen lives upon request of the Censors,
or
> by a Censors themself.
And this proposal of creating socii is REALLY WONDERFUL! Sure it
enlights the citizenship iself.
> VII. If a citizen fails to respond to the contact attempts, that
> person will be considered a "Socius" (Ally), but not a citizen. If
> he/she is a Pater/Mater Familias, he/she immediately lose this
> position and the Censors will abide by the Constitution, any laws,
> and any Censorial edict if the appointment of a Pater Familias is
> necessary. However, the Censors have the discretion to waive this
> clause if both Censors feel there are legitimate reasons for the
> citizen to remain incommunicado.
Vale
L. Arminius Faustus, Plebeian Aedile, Interpreter
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Edictum Consulare CFQ VII de Comitiorum Populi Tributorum Convocatione |
| From: |
"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 17:32:19 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
A clarification from a governors point of view would be welcome.
> III. The Census will consist of the following:
> Those who meet any of the following criteria will still be
considered citizens:
> 1. Those who voted in the main election (in November and/or
December)
> 2. Those who have paid taxes for the current calendar year
> 3. Patres Familias who have successfully responded to the yearly
> registration of the Lex Cornelia de Tabulis Gentium Novaromanarum
> Agendis
> 4. Persons who became citizens during the current calendar year
> 5. Persons who are successfully contacted as described in section
IV.
>
> IV. "Inactive" citizens are those who fail to meet at least one of
> the conditions in III. The following will lay down some of the
> procedures to contact inactive citizens. Inactive citizens are
those
> who will need to be contacted by the National Census. The following
> methods will be used to contact inactive citizens:
> A. Bulk Email. At least two attempts should be done to contact
> citizen via this avenue.
> B. Surface mail. "Inactive" Citizens who are unreachable by email
> shall receive a mailing. This shall be done on the provincial level
> by Governors and legati under the supervision of the Censors.
How many citizens do you anticipate will need to be contacted by this
method? I would anticipate 50% to be a not unreasonable assumption.
This mean that as governor, I personally (with my staff) would need
to snail mail about 40 individuals. If it is as many as this, the
time and cost implications would be far too prohibitive for me to
proceed. To contact 40 cives by snail mail will cost in the region of
£20 ($30). Multiply this by all the provinces and that is a lot of
time and money expenditure. Are cives that fail to keep in touch with
NR and provide her with an up to date email address worth that kind
of expenditure?
> C. Phone calls. If a Citizen is unreachable by e-mail or surface
> mail, he/she shall be contacted by phone.
Is this after the incurred expenditure of a letter. Again, if the
amount of citizens involved are too large will it be actually worth
it?
I wholly support the need to conduct a census of Nova Roman citizens
and will do the utmost to assist with the process. However, should
there not be a provision within the edict by which the process is
altered or halted should it become immediately apparent that the time
and cost implications involved are too great to make it cost
effective? It would be a great shame to lose a substantial portion of
our treasury on an exercise in contacting inactive NR citizens who
can't be bothered to keep in touch with us.
Valete
Decimus Iunius Silanus
Propraetor Britanniae.
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] A Suggestion about the NR ML |
| From: |
"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 17:33:58 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes,
I was watching this political wrangling over the last few days. It is
interesting and necessary and differences between our government
representatives must be discussed and resolved. I have jumped in and
given my two cents worth before so I am no different even though I
hold no office yet.
Still, I was thinking that it may be a good idea to open another NR
group ML specifically for political debates and internal differences
that need to be addressed. What concerns me is that we seem to get
into these long heavy arguments which can sometimes last for days. I
know it is just cooincidental but whenever we have several potential
new Nova Romans wanting to join our ranks, these heavy internal
debates seem to be in progress. New potential NR's may be coming from
other discussion groups which do not have a government like ours. Now
if we are discussing issues on how the Republican government worked
and how its actions would apply to todays world, great. On the other
hand if we're into drawn out discussions about what bill no. Senator
Qlp did 2 years ago that threw Tribuna Flavia who had been stabbed in
the back by Consul Caligula in revenge for not helping him to curb
the expenditures of Lex xx1 suggested by Titus whos arrogance caused
the Eagle to fold...
Well I fear that such drawn out discussions on this ML which I always
considered thr "gateway" to Nova Roma, may wellleave a sour taste in
the mouths of new potential Nova Romans. Any suggestions or ideas on
this?
Respectfully,
Quintus Lanius Paulinus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] a few replies |
| From: |
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 18:54:55 +0100 (BST) |
|
A. Apollonius Cordus to Tribune Diana Moravia Aventina
and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
> To A Apollonius Cordus,
> Sorry for the
> sarcasm. I was giggling a bit when I wrote the
> part to the Senior Consul in an email to you. So
> it was more me having a bit f a sarcastic sense
> of humor once in awhile. in any case, as soon as
> i get baqck home, i promise to red your emails in
> detail and send you a proper answer. Honestly, I
> really just missed the fact that they were
> official. Again sorry!
It's quite all right - I hope you'll find your fears
allayed when you have time to check the archives, and
I hope also that our correspondence on this issue has
been mild enough to encourage you to raise questions
and criticisms without fear!
Cordus
=====
www.strategikon.org
__________________________________________________
It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others.
Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: CC |
| From: |
"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 18:59:07 +0100 (BST) |
|
A. Apollonius Cordus to D. Iunius Silanus and all
citizens and peregrines, greetings.
> Generally speaking, you do not see the
> oaths as problematic because there is always the
> option to resign should a trigger activate the
> conflict of interest. I personally would rather that
> we should not arrive in that juncture in the first
> place.
Fair enough - this seems a good juncture at which to
conclude that we understand one another and probably
will not agree unless further evidence comes to light.
I hope I'm right in trusting that magistrates will
always have the sense to perceive a conflict of
interests when it appears, whether 'triggered' or
ongoing, but only time will tell.
Cordus
=====
www.strategikon.org
__________________________________________________
It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others.
Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] My comments on the Lex Iunia de Temporum Definitione Consulatuum |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 18:32:56 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quirites.
During the last debate, I used the Lex Iunia de Temporum Definitione
Consulatuum as an example to illustrate some of my ideas. It could be
that I have been transmitting the idea that this lex is a bad lex.
That was not my intention.
The Lex Iunia de Temporum Definitione Consulatuum is, in my humble
opinion, a pretty good lex. It deals with a very important issue, and
I personally agree with the treatment given to that issue. To say it
shortly, if this lex hadn't been enacted already, I would be claiming
for it.
It is true that it is not a long lex. But my point was exactly that a
law's *quality* is what matters. The length of our laws or the number
of laws issued are just circumstancial affairs of no importance.
Thank you for your attention.
CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Laenas appointment as 5th tribune of Nova Roma |
| From: |
"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 16:12:11 -0400 |
|
Salve
I do not want to start a fight but have any of the Patrician Senators given any thought to abstaining on the vote to have Laenas appointed 5th tribune of Nova Roma ?
This would at least keep us the sprit of Tribunes only being elected by plebeians.
Regardless the appointment should me made ASAP.
Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizen
Fortuna Favet Fortibus
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ComitiaPlebisTributa] Digest Number 116
Salve Lucius Modius,
The Tribunes are in the process of having Laenas
appointed 5th tribune of Nova Roma. This will
take a bit of time, but the wheels are turning
and my colleague Octavianus has already contacted
the Senate asking them to appoint Laenas. So
normally we will have 5th Tribune shortly.For
the future, I have been busy writing a Plebiscite
so that we won't have this problem of endless
run-offs again. It is based a ot n the ideas that
I was throwing around on this list a few months
ago. When I get back to Belgium I will show it to
my Tribune colleagues and to all of you. So
things are going forward although I admt
slowly.... I haven't helped matters because since
mid February, I have been busy dealing with
deaths and ilnesses in my immediate circle of
friends/family. So I admit that I haven't been as
attentive to this list as I should have: the
proof being that I *totally* missed A Apollonius'
emails re election reform. I'll be back in
Belgium on Sunday and probably have to return to
NYC within a few weeks but I'll bring my
laptop!!!
And to G. Modius: It has certainly been an
endurance test for the candidates. I'm glad to
see that you'll be in the election again next
year.
Vale, Diana Moravia
.__________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:04:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "J. Mallory" <scribe73dc@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Election Reform, the Tribunes, and the
> Consul
>
> Avete omnes--
>
> I am addressing the election reform controversy
> on this mailing list because the dialogue on
> the main list has gotten out of control and is,
> in my opinion, somewhat embarrassing and
> unproductive. Once it gets to the point of "but
> you said X"/"no, I said X+1," the point of
> diminishing marginal returns has been reached,
> with a vengeance. (I am, admittedly, reading
> the digest version, so it may have cooled
> off--but I won't know until tomorrow.)
>
> With the need for a further runoff
> obviated--either Popillius Laenas can be
> appointed by the Senate, or a pro-forma runoff
> with a fairly well-known result can be
> held--perhaps we can turn to solving the
> problem so it does not recur?
>
> I have gone back to review the Senior Consul's
> proposal for a mixed-style (Roman, for lack of
> a better term, and AVS) election process. At
> the time it was posted, I believe most of the
> comments were positive. It still has merit, and
> would be a serviceable and worthwhile solution,
> preserving both Romanitas and the voters'
> collective sanity.
>
> My thin understanding of the working of NR lead
> me to believe that any of the Tribunes can
> propose a motion for consideration in the
> convened Comitia Plebis Tributa. It is apparent
> that Tribuna Diana Moravia Aventina may have
> some difficulty in doing so--her thoughtful
> discourse is pushing WebTV to the limits of its
> capacities--but there should be three other
> Tribunes available, yes? Perhaps the Comita can
> be convened so we can begin *deliberating*, as
> opposed to arguing about deliberating.
>
> I understand the need to figure out where
> things went wrong--and it is apparent now that
> there are multiple points of failure, not just
> one--but that should not distract us from
> preventing things from continuing to get worse.
> When in quicksand, looking for the map is a
> secondary concern.
>
> With great respect, I would once again urge the
> Tribunes--regardless of the Senior Consul's
> intention, or lack thereof--to convene the
> Comitia and formally open the discussion of
> election reform. Once that is completed, *then*
> we can do a post-mortem.
>
> Salvete omnes,
> Lucius Modius Rufus
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> ______________________________
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Laenas appointment as 5th tribune of Nova Roma |
| From: |
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus <cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 22:22:17 +0200 |
|
On Tue, 20 May 2003 16:12:11 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>I do not want to start a fight but have any of the Patrician
>Senators given any thought to abstaining on the vote to have Laenas
>appointed 5th tribune of Nova Roma ?
>This would at least keep us the sprit of Tribunes only being elected
>by plebeians.
Only seven of our twenty senators are plebeians. Would such a
decision without the patricians be possible (quorum)?
>Regardless the appointment should me made ASAP.
All of us agree here, I believe.
--
Optime vale!
Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at
20.05.2003 22:19:06
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: A Suggestion about the NR ML |
| From: |
"jachthondus" <rompy@xs4all.nl> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 20:14:23 -0000 |
|
Hi, Quintus Lanius Paulinus,
How GOOD of You to suggest to unite all these
magistrates/governmental-issues/discussions/talks on a Separate-List!
That would make space for REAL-HISTORY in an other list...
(Not such a bad idea of mine after all; was it)?
Kindest Regards,
Jachthondus.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I was watching this political wrangling over the last few days. It
is
> interesting and necessary and differences between our government
> representatives must be discussed and resolved. I have jumped in
and
> given my two cents worth before so I am no different even though I
> hold no office yet.
>
> Still, I was thinking that it may be a good idea to open another NR
> group ML specifically for political debates and internal
differences
> that need to be addressed. What concerns me is that we seem to get
> into these long heavy arguments which can sometimes last for days.
I
> know it is just cooincidental but whenever we have several
potential
> new Nova Romans wanting to join our ranks, these heavy internal
> debates seem to be in progress. New potential NR's may be coming
from
> other discussion groups which do not have a government like ours.
Now
> if we are discussing issues on how the Republican government worked
> and how its actions would apply to todays world, great. On the
other
> hand if we're into drawn out discussions about what bill no.
Senator
> Qlp did 2 years ago that threw Tribuna Flavia who had been stabbed
in
> the back by Consul Caligula in revenge for not helping him to curb
> the expenditures of Lex xx1 suggested by Titus whos arrogance
caused
> the Eagle to fold...
> Well I fear that such drawn out discussions on this ML which I
always
> considered thr "gateway" to Nova Roma, may wellleave a sour taste in
> the mouths of new potential Nova Romans. Any suggestions or ideas
on
> this?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Laenas appointment as 5th tribune of Nova Roma |
| From: |
"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 16:27:35 -0400 |
|
Salve
All Senators could and should be in the Senate House for the vote they would
simply abstain so the appointment would be made by the seven plebeians, a
quorum would already exist when the vote is taken.
Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gnaeus Octavius Noricus" <cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at>
To: <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Laenas appointment as 5th tribune of Nova Roma
> On Tue, 20 May 2003 16:12:11 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> >I do not want to start a fight but have any of the Patrician
> >Senators given any thought to abstaining on the vote to have Laenas
> >appointed 5th tribune of Nova Roma ?
> >This would at least keep us the sprit of Tribunes only being elected
> >by plebeians.
>
> Only seven of our twenty senators are plebeians. Would such a
> decision without the patricians be possible (quorum)?
>
> >Regardless the appointment should me made ASAP.
>
> All of us agree here, I believe.
>
> --
> Optime vale!
>
> Gnaeus Octavius Noricus
> cn.octavius.noricus@gmx.at
> 20.05.2003 22:19:06
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Consulare CFQ VII de Comitiorum Populi Tributorum Convocatione |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 22:06:24 -0000 |
|
AVE OPTIME DECIME IVNI SILANE
> How many citizens do you anticipate will need to be contacted by
this
> method? I would anticipate 50% to be a not unreasonable assumption.
> This mean that as governor, I personally (with my staff) would need
> to snail mail about 40 individuals. If it is as many as this, the
> time and cost implications would be far too prohibitive for me to
> proceed. To contact 40 cives by snail mail will cost in the region
of
> £20 ($30). Multiply this by all the provinces and that is a lot of
> time and money expenditure. Are cives that fail to keep in touch
with
> NR and provide her with an up to date email address worth that kind
> of expenditure?
I see your point. Well, consider that the census will occurr only
once every two years, and only this first census will require to
contact such a large number of inactive cives, as they had about five
years to "accumulate". This effort will not be needed obviously from
the second census on.
As I see it, a census is one of those things which allow you to
say "this is a state". Therefore it must be conducted as seriously as
possible: we can not leave those citizens, not even informing them
that Nova Roma has grown since the beginning. Perhaps they "forgot"
our Res Publica four years ago, but they could be glad to join Her
again now, after a remarkable (and ongoing) development.
Therefore in my view such an expense is needed. Just consider that
the previous law on the Census said that all this had to be done by
the Censors: they would have to send international and
intercontinental surface mails, to make international and
intercontinental telephone calls. A huge expense for them and for
Nova Roma.
With the actual proposal all this work is divided among provincial
officials (of course with the supervision of the Censores). This
means local mails and local telephone calls. Less expensive for the
individuals and less expensive for NR.
Of course, each provincial official (Propraetor and Legati) would be
reimbursed.
BENE VALE
M'Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Legatvs Provinciae Italiae
Accensvs Consvlis Senioris Qvintiliani
|
| Subject: |
[Nova-Roma] Re: Laenas appointment as 5th tribune of Nova Roma |
| From: |
"Daniel O. Villanueva" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 19:23:37 -0300 |
|
Salve Tiberi Galeri Pauline
We already have had 5 runoff elections. And that is enough reason to call the Senate to order to appoint the candidate with relative majority as the fifth tribune. I already sent a message to both Consuls announcing them my plan to call the Senate to order by the end of this month. If the Patrician senators abstain to vote there is the risk that the candidate will not receive enough votes at the Senate to be appointed as the fifth tribune. I do not recall right now how many Senators are Patricians and how many plebeians. The fact that the candidate has relative majority, it means that he was the candidate with most votes at the last runoff election. So his appointment by this august chamber will be respecting the plebeians' will.
Bene vale
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Tribunus Plebis
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Gallagher
To: Nova-Roma ; Senate Senate
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 5:12 PM
Subject: Laenas appointment as 5th tribune of Nova Roma
Salve
I do not want to start a fight but have any of the Patrician Senators given any thought to abstaining on the vote to have Laenas appointed 5th tribune of Nova Roma ?
This would at least keep us the sprit of Tribunes only being elected by plebeians.
Regardless the appointment should me made ASAP.
Vale
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Citizen
Fortuna Favet Fortibus
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina
To: ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ComitiaPlebisTributa] Digest Number 116
Salve Lucius Modius,
The Tribunes are in the process of having Laenas
appointed 5th tribune of Nova Roma. This will
take a bit of time, but the wheels are turning
and my colleague Octavianus has already contacted
the Senate asking them to appoint Laenas. So
normally we will have 5th Tribune shortly.For
the future, I have been busy writing a Plebiscite
so that we won't have this problem of endless
run-offs again. It is based a ot n the ideas that
I was throwing around on this list a few months
ago. When I get back to Belgium I will show it to
my Tribune colleagues and to all of you. So
things are going forward although I admt
slowly.... I haven't helped matters because since
mid February, I have been busy dealing with
deaths and ilnesses in my immediate circle of
friends/family. So I admit that I haven't been as
attentive to this list as I should have: the
proof being that I *totally* missed A Apollonius'
emails re election reform. I'll be back in
Belgium on Sunday and probably have to return to
NYC within a few weeks but I'll bring my
laptop!!!
And to G. Modius: It has certainly been an
endurance test for the candidates. I'm glad to
see that you'll be in the election again next
year.
Vale, Diana Moravia
.__________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:04:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "J. Mallory" <scribe73dc@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Election Reform, the Tribunes, and the
> Consul
>
> Avete omnes--
>
> I am addressing the election reform controversy
> on this mailing list because the dialogue on
> the main list has gotten out of control and is,
> in my opinion, somewhat embarrassing and
> unproductive. Once it gets to the point of "but
> you said X"/"no, I said X+1," the point of
> diminishing marginal returns has been reached,
> with a vengeance. (I am, admittedly, reading
> the digest version, so it may have cooled
> off--but I won't know until tomorrow.)
>
> With the need for a further runoff
> obviated--either Popillius Laenas can be
> appointed by the Senate, or a pro-forma runoff
> with a fairly well-known result can be
> held--perhaps we can turn to solving the
> problem so it does not recur?
>
> I have gone back to review the Senior Consul's
> proposal for a mixed-style (Roman, for lack of
> a better term, and AVS) election process. At
> the time it was posted, I believe most of the
> comments were positive. It still has merit, and
> would be a serviceable and worthwhile solution,
> preserving both Romanitas and the voters'
> collective sanity.
>
> My thin understanding of the working of NR lead
> me to believe that any of the Tribunes can
> propose a motion for consideration in the
> convened Comitia Plebis Tributa. It is apparent
> that Tribuna Diana Moravia Aventina may have
> some difficulty in doing so--her thoughtful
> discourse is pushing WebTV to the limits of its
> capacities--but there should be three other
> Tribunes available, yes? Perhaps the Comita can
> be convened so we can begin *deliberating*, as
> opposed to arguing about deliberating.
>
> I understand the need to figure out where
> things went wrong--and it is apparent now that
> there are multiple points of failure, not just
> one--but that should not distract us from
> preventing things from continuing to get worse.
> When in quicksand, looking for the map is a
> secondary concern.
>
> With great respect, I would once again urge the
> Tribunes--regardless of the Senior Consul's
> intention, or lack thereof--to convene the
> Comitia and formally open the discussion of
> election reform. Once that is completed, *then*
> we can do a post-mortem.
>
> Salvete omnes,
> Lucius Modius Rufus
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Edictum Consulare CFQ VII de Comitiorum Populi |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com> |
| Date: |
Wed, 21 May 2003 00:14:23 +0200 |
|
Salve Illustrus Decimus Iunius Silanus, Amice!
The old Census law was much more expense and expected the Censors to
build a staff of Censorial scribae internationally and it also
expected the Censors to do the same expansive contacting within the
Provinciae without the Governors and their assistants. I have changed
this in this law as I think these changes will make the system
cheaper. I also think it is much better to use the already built up
structures in the Provincae.
Still I think it will be hard to avoid that the _first_ Census will
cost more than those that will follow. But laws are written for the
long run and I think that this law will be affordable both the first
time and in the future.
Before we calculate the % of the inactive citizens that will not
answer contacts by e-mail I think that we will have to consider a
"special" group among these citizens - those who have friends among
the officials of the Provinciae. These wouldn't be of much use with
the old law, but when those who execute the Census are mainly from
the Provinciae there will be a certain number that is known by the
officials of the Provinciae. Those citizens will probably not cost
anything to get in touch with, we could even expect some of them to
take this contact themselves, even if they don't know about the
Census itself.
Still I have also introduced a system with tax credit to cheapen the
costs of reimbursment for those officials that work with the Census.
This leaves the costs for the surface mails and the phone calls. I
have calculated that there would be about 35% to contact by these
methods. This is of course just a guess. This would cost £11 ($17)
for 28 persons (35%) (calculated in Swedish costs) which would be
much more reasonable. I also expect a higher rate of answers by
e-mail in countries like USA as the use of e-mail is much more
frequent there than in some of the smaller Provinciae.
I admit that I am on unsure ground in guessing, but I think You will
have to admit that You are too. In the end I think we will have to go
through with this Census and hope and work so that we can keep the
costs down. As a Governor I will be free to donate some of the costs
to Nova Roma, which I probably will do and I hope that some of my
Legati also will do that. This is after all a voluntary organisation
and most the Governors and Magistrati already have expenses that we
pay from our own purse. This tradition is already active.
>Salvete,
>
>A clarification from a governors point of view would be welcome.
>
>> III. The Census will consist of the following:
>> Those who meet any of the following criteria will still be
>considered citizens:
>> 1. Those who voted in the main election (in November and/or
>December)
>> 2. Those who have paid taxes for the current calendar year
>> 3. Patres Familias who have successfully responded to the yearly
>> registration of the Lex Cornelia de Tabulis Gentium Novaromanarum
>> Agendis
>> 4. Persons who became citizens during the current calendar year
>> 5. Persons who are successfully contacted as described in section
>IV.
>>
>> IV. "Inactive" citizens are those who fail to meet at least one of
>> the conditions in III. The following will lay down some of the
>> procedures to contact inactive citizens. Inactive citizens are
>those
>> who will need to be contacted by the National Census. The following
>> methods will be used to contact inactive citizens:
>> A. Bulk Email. At least two attempts should be done to contact
>> citizen via this avenue.
>> B. Surface mail. "Inactive" Citizens who are unreachable by email
>> shall receive a mailing. This shall be done on the provincial level
>> by Governors and legati under the supervision of the Censors.
>
>How many citizens do you anticipate will need to be contacted by this
>method? I would anticipate 50% to be a not unreasonable assumption.
>This mean that as governor, I personally (with my staff) would need
>to snail mail about 40 individuals. If it is as many as this, the
>time and cost implications would be far too prohibitive for me to
>proceed. To contact 40 cives by snail mail will cost in the region of
>£20 ($30). Multiply this by all the provinces and that is a lot of
>time and money expenditure. Are cives that fail to keep in touch with
>NR and provide her with an up to date email address worth that kind
>of expenditure?
>
>> C. Phone calls. If a Citizen is unreachable by e-mail or surface
>> mail, he/she shall be contacted by phone.
>
>Is this after the incurred expenditure of a letter. Again, if the
>amount of citizens involved are too large will it be actually worth
>it?
>
>I wholly support the need to conduct a census of Nova Roman citizens
>and will do the utmost to assist with the process. However, should
>there not be a provision within the edict by which the process is
>altered or halted should it become immediately apparent that the time
>and cost implications involved are too great to make it cost
>effective? It would be a great shame to lose a substantial portion of
>our treasury on an exercise in contacting inactive NR citizens who
>can't be bothered to keep in touch with us.
>
>Valete
>
>Decimus Iunius Silanus
>Propraetor Britanniae.
--
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
|
| Subject: |
Re: [Nova-Roma] Edictum Consulare CFQ VII de Comitiorum Populi |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net> |
| Date: |
Tue, 20 May 2003 18:15:06 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve Decime Iuni,
> How many citizens do you anticipate will need to be contacted by this
> method? I would anticipate 50% to be a not unreasonable assumption.
> This mean that as governor, I personally (with my staff) would need
> to snail mail about 40 individuals. If it is as many as this, the
> time and cost implications would be far too prohibitive for me to
> proceed.
Right now, that task is assigned to the Censores - who are less
likely to be in the same country or speak the same language as
citizens they are contacting. This proposal distributes the burden
to a larger number of magistrates, and thereby turns an impossible
task into one that is merely large and time-consuming.
> Is this after the incurred expenditure of a letter. Again, if the
> amount of citizens involved are too large will it be actually worth
> it?
I don't think so, but the lex voted upon last year does require
this. The current revision will make it feasible to do this
without wiping out the entire treasury.
Vale, Octavius.
--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/
|
