Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Edictum Consulare CFQ VII de Comitiorum Populi Tributorum Convocatione
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 01:25:45 -0000

Salve Honorable Consul,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salve Honorable Q. Cassius Calvus!
> I am truely sorry! You are right, cut and paste can be a problem. I
> am glad that You have humor and a forgiving heart. ;-)

I've been called far worse things. <G> Besides I come from a large
family and used to my mother running through my brother's names.
Somehow though when I was in trouble she always managed to remember
my name including the the dreaded middle. If mother says your middle
name you know you're in deep hot water.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 01:37:33 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites!
>
> A law proposal can't be changed during contio, so I can only say
that

Salve Honorable Consul,

That is something I've always wondered about. I understand that it
is traditional practice, but can't find anything that actually
forbids a proposed lex from being amended by the magistrate calling
the contio during the contio.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Salvete!
From:	Diana Moravia Aventina <diana_aventina@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 23 May 2003 19:23:16 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete citizens,

I have been skimming though the emails over the
last few days and will be replying offlist to a
few of you when I get home on Sunday. I'll send a
special reply to my favorite Uncle (wink wink
nudge nudge :-)

Congratulations to our Senior Consul C Fabius
Quintillianus and his team on the Lex Fabia
regarding the census!

And lastly it is great to see such enthusiastic
discussions on this list. Only by discussing can
we know how our citizens think and feel.

This year is turning out to be pretty exciting.
Ok the endless run-offs were dull, but now we
will have a 5th Tribune appointed in a way
normally not done (=lively discussions), a census
(=more lively discussions) and electoral reform
(=even more lively discussions). Plus we citizens
have an opportunity to meet at Roman Days and
again at the 2nd NR Rally in Bologna. It's
turning out to be a very good year!

Valete!
Diana Moravia Aventina
Tribunus Plebis

__________________________________
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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] =?iso-8859-1?B?QXJjaI5vIE5vcmQ=?=
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?R6VJVkxJVlOlU0NBVlJWUw==?= <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 06:30:32 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus

Avete, Quirites.

Here are two essays (with excavation photos) are from FrŽdŽric
Loridant's "ArchŽo Nord" site:

"Bavay: citŽ gallo-romaine" (Bagacum):

http://home.nordnet.fr/~floridant/bavay.htm

"La nŽcropole gallo-romaine du Haut-Empire de la "Fache des Pr�s
Aulnoys" ˆ Bavay":

http://home.nordnet.fr/~floridant/necropol.htm

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 10:29:01 +0200

Salve

You are correct, it is more of a praxis (practise), otherwise many
voters would probably become confused. I intend to comntinue this
practice as I think it is good for the stability of Nova Roma. In the
future I _may_ publish proposed leges before the formal Contio
starts, which would open the chance to change a lex before the Contio.

>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
><christer.edling@t...> wrote:
>> Salvete Quirites!
>>
>> A law proposal can't be changed during contio, so I can only say
>that
>
>Salve Honorable Consul,
>
>That is something I've always wondered about. I understand that it
>is traditional practice, but can't find anything that actually
>forbids a proposed lex from being amended by the magistrate calling
>the contio during the contio.
>
>Vale,
>
>Q. Cassius Calvus

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] REMINDER ABOUT THEVOTE IN COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA ABOUT LEX FABIA
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 17:09:20 +0200

Ex Officio Consulis Senioris Caesonis Fabii Quintiliani

Salvete Quirites!

The Comitia Populi Tributa shall begin voting at 18.00 Roman time
Saturday the 24th of May (that is tonight) the issue at hand is the
proposed "Lex Fabia de Censo". Please go to
http://www.novaroma.org/main.html and select the link "VOTE NOW"!
Then follow the instructions!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] On the Census, again.
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 16:30:25 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

The Senior Consul wrote:
> A law proposal can't be changed during contio, so I
> can only say that your ideas are registered and
> hopefully will be applied to the upcoming Census as
> far as the proposed Census law allows it. I will
> cc this comment to the Censors and recommend them to
> listen to the ideas that have been presented during
> the contio.

I'd just like to add for any voters who may be
wavering that although it has been pointed out that
there could be a slight improvement in the Census law,
it is still worth voting for! If there does emerge any
need to stop the Census before it reaches its natural
conclusion as a result of its becoming too expensive,
it will not be difficult to pass a new law to call a
halt to the process. So I encourage you all to vote in
favour of the lex Fabia.

Thanks for your attention,

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others.
Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 16:34:35 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> greetings.

<snip>

>So I encourage you all to vote in
> favour of the lex Fabia.
>
> Thanks for your attention,

Salve,

Since you are on the Consul's staff, this is hardly an unbaised
opinion. <G> Truth of the matter is whether using the Lex Fabia or
the Lex Cornelia version on the census this very first census is
going to be expen$ive and there is no way to do it right and do it on
the cheap.

In my mind the real question is the revival of the historical
label "Socii" for a special group of non-citizens. In my question
concerning gens where all the members wind up being catagorized
as "Socii" and whether the gens goes "extinct" or remains "closed but
on the books", the answer was "closed but on the books." I'd
personally rather see a gens go "extinct" as the "Socii" are not
citizens and for all practical purposes a closed gens full of Socii
is the same as an "extinct" gens. I'm really not sure the creation
of the "Socii" and keeping closed gens on the books will be worth the
time and effort in the long run. For me its really a matter of
flipping a coin or consulting the "Magic 8 Ball" as neither the Lex
Fabia nor Lex Cornelia is really preferable to me over the other.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: some doubts
From:	Kristoffer From <from@darkeye.net>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 19:09:19 +0200

Salvete, omnes.

Another e-mail I'd prefer not to answer myself arrived to the webmaster
alias. Maybe one of our spanish citizens could contact him? BTW, don't
take offense, any of you...he's asking, not accusing.

Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.

Eduardo Ortiz <edortizpa @ hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I only want to ask you some questions:
> First of all, I am spanish and I feel more
> roman than many of you i think, because the
> blood of them flows in me; a part, you can
> visit my own page about the glory of Rome:
>
> http://lagloriaderoma.galeon.com
>
> Anyway, I would be a member of your nation,
> but I can't understand how can there be
> provinces of the barbarians, America or Asia,
> it's imposible and it has no history. By the
> way, I also can't understand the religious
> part of the nation; I think that it's
> imposible to get again the ancient religion,
> because of the romans where who destroyed it;
> now, the occidental religion is cristianism
> and i think that the only success of this
> nation could be in the free religion, despite
> being agree with the traditions and the
> culture. If you can explain anything about
> your ideology i could try to be one of you,
> but I see many problems. Thaks for your
> attention.
>
> Senatus Populusque romanus.
> Eduardo.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: some doubts
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 17:25:30 -0000

Salvete Quirites.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> Another e-mail I'd prefer not to answer myself arrived to the
> webmaster alias. Maybe one of our spanish citizens could contact
> him? BTW, don't take offense, any of you...he's asking, not
> accusing.

With your permission, I will reply to him.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: some doubts
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 17:28:43 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> Another e-mail I'd prefer not to answer myself arrived to the
webmaster
> alias. Maybe one of our spanish citizens could contact him? BTW,
don't
> take offense, any of you...he's asking, not accusing.
>
> Valete, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
>Salve Tite Octavi Pi!

The letter is interesting. I'll take care of it today. Old Quintus
never neglects the education of such doubtful ones!


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 19:50:43 +0200

Salve Honorable Q. Cassius Calvus!

>In my mind the real question is the revival of the historical
>label "Socii" for a special group of non-citizens. In my question
>concerning gens where all the members wind up being catagorized
>as "Socii" and whether the gens goes "extinct" or remains "closed but
>on the books", the answer was "closed but on the books." I'd
>personally rather see a gens go "extinct" as the "Socii" are not
>citizens and for all practical purposes a closed gens full of Socii
>is the same as an "extinct" gens. I'm really not sure the creation
>of the "Socii" and keeping closed gens on the books will be worth the
>time and effort in the long run.

I am convinced that keeping the Socii is worth the effort. You know
it cost close to nothing. I think that many passive citizens that
will become Socii are possible to activate again and that is one good
reason to keep them on the records. Even today we have old citizens
returning and I hope to see the Socii doing the same. Remember that
not all, maybe not even the majority of the Socii will be part of
closed Gentes.

>For me its really a matter of
>flipping a coin or consulting the "Magic 8 Ball" as neither the Lex
>Fabia nor Lex Cornelia is really preferable to me over the other.

Well if You don't see that my alternative is much cheaper then I
understand, but Lex Fabia de Censo is _much_ cheaper and that is a
very good reason to vote for it!

>Vale,
>
>Q. Cassius Calvus

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] PLEASE VOTE IN THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA FOR THE LEX FABIA DE
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 20:06:10 +0200

Salvete Quirites!

The voting in Comitia Populi Tributa has begun at 18.00 Roman time
Saturday the 24th of May (two hours ago). The issue at hand is the
proposed "Lex Fabia de Censo". Please go to
http://www.novaroma.org/main.html and select the link "VOTE NOW"!
Then follow the instructions!

This new Census law will lead to a cheaper Census, with the old law
the expances will be hard to control. Please vote for Lex Fabia de
Censo!
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 18:38:05 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
<christer.edling@t...> wrote:
> Salve Honorable Q. Cassius Calvus!
> Well if You don't see that my alternative is much cheaper then I
> understand, but Lex Fabia de Censo is _much_ cheaper and that is a
> very good reason to vote for it!
>

Salve Honorable Consul,

Actually, I don't remember seeing a cost/benefit analysis posted to
show that one is cheaper than the other.

"I admit that I am on unsure ground in guessing, but I think You will
have to admit that You are too." -- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus in
response to Decimus Iunius Silanus' questions concerning expenses
(msg 10689 ) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/10689

And you are right, it's really anyone's guess how much a census is
going to cost. Until the bills are tallied no one really knows. To
be honest, my guess using the Lex Cornelia ranges from a high of
US$954.00 to a low of US$630.00 My guess with your proposal is a
range of about $954.00 to a low of $630.00. Why, because the number
of citizens that fail to respond to the virutally no cost email and
then have to attempt contect via the more expensive methods would be
that same.

The system of using tax credits for reimbursement does lower the
initial cost this fiscal year, however it lowers next year's tax
revenue by the amount that it "saves" this year. Just for the sake
of example and these numbers are arbitrary. Let's assume that the
expenses occured during the census is US$750.00 Let's say the
expected tax revenue for next year is $1500.00 If $500.00 of the
expenses comes from this year and $250.00 in tax credits against next
year, next years tax revenue drops to $1250.00.

What if a person ends up spending more in out of pocket census
expense than their tax is for the next year? Do they not pay taxes
until they are fully credited? If so that lowers tax receipts for
several years to come. If not, then someone is out some money. This
of course does not include any potential bank interest lost from
future revenues that won't be collected due to tax credits (though to
be fair it would be pennies on the dollar).

To summarize, tax credits do lower the initial outlay, but at the
same time they lower future tax revenues. When figuring in the loss
of interest income from the lower future tax revenues tax credits
actually raise the total end cost of the census.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 21:10:12 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

I wrote:
> So I encourage you all to vote in
> favour of the lex Fabia.

You responded:
> Since you are on the Consul's staff, this is hardly
> an unbaised opinion. <G>

I can see how you would think that! I assure you that
if the Consul tried to put through a bill I thought
was not in the public interest, I would argue against
it - but of course there's no proof of that either!
:)

> In my mind the real question is the revival of the
> historical label "Socii" for a special group of non
> citizens. In my question concerning gens where all
> the members wind up being catagorized as "Socii" and
> whether the gens goes "extinct" or remains "closed
> but on the books", the answer was "closed but on the
> books." I'd personally rather see a gens
> go "extinct" as the "Socii" are not citizens and for
> all practical purposes a closed gens full of Socii
> is the same as an "extinct" gens.

I'd like to offer a personal perspective on this. When
I first came to Nova Roma, I was unusual in spending a
lengthy period (a few months) on the main list before
becoming a citizen - initially I was looking to see
what went on, then I was looking for a gens, and by
the time I'd submitted my application the elections
had begun, so I had to wait until they passed.

People do sometimes spend time on the main list or in
other parts of our community before acquiring
citizenship, and sometimes they adopt an unofficial
Roman name while awaiting their acceptance. So to my
mind, there is a use for the creation of a recognized
legal status which can embrace people who are not
citizens, but who are or have been members of the
community and might become or return as citizens.

The proposed law only explicitly addresses those who
have 'lapsed', but there is no reason why 'social'
status shouldn't also be extended to active members of
the community who are for some reason not citizens.
Not only are there those who haven't yet become
citizens but will or might do so; there may also be
those who are members of sodalitates or of gentes or
who just like to hang around in the back alley or
discuss the arts on the relevant e-mail lists, but who
do not want to be citizens.

Often these may be people who have been citizens,
decided that citizenship isn't for them, but want to
keep in touch with their old friends and family here.
These people are members of the community, and it's
useful to have a way to conceive of their place in
Nova Roman society and to treat them as persons before
the law. The proposed law allows citizens who wish to
let their citizenship lapse to remain in the same gens
as citizens who they used to and perhaps still do
regard as family, and to retain a place in our society
even if not formally in our state.

I hope this gives some ideas to persuade you and
others that the creation of 'socii' is not detrimental
but is in fact useful both for the immediate goal of
the census and for social developments in the longer
term.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others.
Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 16:26:51 -0400

Salvete, omnes -

On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 04:34:35PM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
> <cordus@s...> wrote:
> > A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> > greetings.
>
> <snip>
>
> >So I encourage you all to vote in
> > favour of the lex Fabia.
> >
> > Thanks for your attention,
>
> Salve,
>
> Since you are on the Consul's staff, this is hardly an unbaised
> opinion. <G>

"Biased" does not mean "incorrect". I'm strongly biased in favor of the
survival of the human race, clear communications, and dealing fairly
with other people; my bias does not make those things any less positive.

> Truth of the matter is whether using the Lex Fabia or
> the Lex Cornelia version on the census this very first census is
> going to be expen$ive and there is no way to do it right and do it on
> the cheap.

On the cheap, no; there is, however, a way to do it right as long as
"right" is not equated with perfect, cheap/free, or any other absolute.


Valete,
Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Honores mutant mores.
The honours change the customs. (Power corrupts.)
-- N/A

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
From:	"aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 20:46:31 -0000

The citizen with the following voter tracking
number has a malformed or inaccurate voter code:

#809

Please remember to enter your code exactly as
it is given, and if you are unsure of your new
code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 21:17:24 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
wrote:
> Salvete, omnes -
>
> On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 04:34:35PM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus
wrote:
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
> > <cordus@s...> wrote:
> > > A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
> > > greetings.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > >So I encourage you all to vote in
> > > favour of the lex Fabia.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your attention,
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Since you are on the Consul's staff, this is hardly an unbaised
> > opinion. <G>
>
> "Biased" does not mean "incorrect". I'm strongly biased in favor of
the
> survival of the human race, clear communications, and dealing fairly
> with other people; my bias does not make those things any less
positive.
>

There is a reason for the <G> at the end of that. The <G> indicates
meant as humor, not an expression of an opinion of correctness or
incorrectness of the statement.

> > Truth of the matter is whether using the Lex Fabia or
> > the Lex Cornelia version on the census this very first census is
> > going to be expen$ive and there is no way to do it right and do
it on
> > the cheap.
>
> On the cheap, no; there is, however, a way to do it right as long as
> "right" is not equated with perfect, cheap/free, or any other
absolute.

Perfect is impossible as long as humans remain in the equation, and
like you I'm strongly biased that humans remain in the equation.
<G>

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 21:58:53 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<cordus@s...> wrote:
> A. Apollonius Cordus to Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus and
> all citizens and peregrines, greetings.
>
> I wrote:
> > So I encourage you all to vote in
> > favour of the lex Fabia.
>
> You responded:
> > Since you are on the Consul's staff, this is hardly
> > an unbaised opinion. <G>
>
> I can see how you would think that! I assure you that
> if the Consul tried to put through a bill I thought
> was not in the public interest, I would argue against
> it - but of course there's no proof of that either!
> :)
>

LOL! Glad you have a sense of humor as well as duty. I think you'd
write yourself into Carpal Tunnel Syndrome to dissuade what you
believe to be a bad bill from ever getting to the Contio
stage.


>
> I hope this gives some ideas to persuade you and
> others that the creation of 'socii' is not detrimental
> but is in fact useful both for the immediate goal of
> the census and for social developments in the longer
> term.

I don't think the Socii idea is a bad idea as it doesn't cost
anything extra. I also think it sends a good message to the 'socii'
that they haven't been forgotten and are welcome back anytime.
However, it also sends a negative message to those looking to join
Nova Roma that Nova Roma has a high "attrition rate" when they learn
that 'socii' are people who were citizens but have kinda slipped
away.

Back last year when Sulla put to a vote the LEX CORNELIA OCTAVIA DE
RATIONE COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM and the LEX CORNELIA VEDIA DE
RATIONE COMITIORUM POPULI TRIBUTORUM, I questioned him on what the
difference was and why should I vote for them as I'm not the type of
person to vote in favor of a new law to overturn old law(s) just for
the sake of a new law when the benefits are negligible.

The only strong opinion I have about the Census is that Nova Roma
needs one and needs one done to the best of human ability as soon as
possible. To be honest, I really don't care if its conducted via the
Lex Cornelia or the Lex Fabia. I just want to have some questions
answered as I think of them before I vote one way or the other. When
I do make up my mind and vote, the questions stop.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: On the Census, again.
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Sat, 24 May 2003 18:08:41 -0400

On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 09:17:24PM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@c...>
> wrote:
> > On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 04:34:35PM -0000, quintuscassiuscalvus
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Since you are on the Consul's staff, this is hardly an unbaised
> > > opinion. <G>
> >
> > "Biased" does not mean "incorrect". I'm strongly biased in favor of
> the
> > survival of the human race, clear communications, and dealing fairly
> > with other people; my bias does not make those things any less
> positive.
> >
>
> There is a reason for the <G> at the end of that. The <G> indicates
> meant as humor, not an expression of an opinion of correctness or
> incorrectness of the statement.

Yep; agreed. However, the <G[rin]> doesn't change the validity (or
otherwise) of the statement that immediately precedes it, either, and -
since it was humorous - I wanted to make a clarifying point about it.
Especially given that this statement had recently been tendered
seriously, as if it was some sort of a disqualification.

> > > Truth of the matter is whether using the Lex Fabia or
> > > the Lex Cornelia version on the census this very first census is
> > > going to be expen$ive and there is no way to do it right and do
> it on
> > > the cheap.
> >
> > On the cheap, no; there is, however, a way to do it right as long as
> > "right" is not equated with perfect, cheap/free, or any other
> absolute.
>
> Perfect is impossible as long as humans remain in the equation, and
> like you I'm strongly biased that humans remain in the equation.
> <G>

<laugh> Too right. That's exactly how I was looking at it - politics
being the art of compromise. I believe that the Consul has hammered out
a solid, effective implementation for this census, including doing as
much as possible to reduce costs while maintaining a high level of
confidence (statistically speaking) in the returned results. That's what
I'd call a good compromise.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Fortes fortuna adiuvat.
Fortune favours the brave.
-- Terence, "Phormio"