Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Done
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 00:08:44 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sp. Postumius Tubertus"
<postumius@g...> wrote:
> Sp. Postumius Dianae Moraviae Aventinae S.P.D.
>
> > <So, whats happened since, say, April?
> >
> > We made the plan.
>
> Did we really? So what is the plan, Diana Moravia?
>
> Vale,
>
> Sp. Postumius Tubertus


Three magic letters B-B-Q. <G>

Q. Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New Census Law
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 02:12:53 +0200

Salve Serapio,

> That's not right: we have citizens in Provincia Italia which joined
> in 1998 and which are coming back after 5 years of inactivity, as
> they didn't know english and now they see that our Provincial
> activity is growing.

I am not surprised that the Italians are showing renewed interest in NR. You
and Franciscus Apulus are certainly quite active! And the Rally in Bologna
is sure to spark even more interest within Italia.

> If they were expelled last year by the Lex Cornelia they would
never > come back this year.

But why not? If they are inactive then they won't even know that they were
expelled :-)) Seriously, they could always just reapply to NR. I had to
reapply after a 2 year absence and it took only 5 minutes.

I seriously doubt that anyone returning after 5 years would be upset to see
that they are no longer listed as a citizen. In fact, they will probably
just be happy that Nova Roma still exists, since groups like us have an
average lifespan of less than 2 years.

While I like the Census law, I would prefer to see the inactive citizens
scrapped. As it stands now, I think that we could possibly have 1300
citizens listed as socii when we probably won't hear from 1200 of them ever
again. I liked D. Iunius Palladius' idea to amend the Law later on to
include a time limit for the number of years that people could be listed as
socii. This would give us more realistic numbers.

Vale,
Diana Moravia



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Done
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 02:23:05 +0200

Nope Calvus,
B-B-Q isn't THE PLAN, although BBQ is also a good plan....

It's THE PLAN that Agricola was asking for uh... a lot.
Oh well, it's a shame that we finalized it in April while he was busy in
court. I guess that now he'll never learn what THE PLAN was. ;-)

Vale,
Diana




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Done
From:	"Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia" <arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 00:28:48 -0000

> I guess that now he'll never learn what THE PLAN was. ;-)
>
> Vale,
> Diana

That IS a shame. It's such a great plan, too. One of the best.

Arnamentia

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Done
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Mon, 26 May 2003 23:19:11 -0400

Salve yes it IS a GREAT PLAN and it is to bad my good friend will NEVER
know what was in it.

I really like the end of the plan which states oh that
would be telling.

Maybe he can see the movie version of THE PLAN to be filmed at SPQR studios
just outside of Rome.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


----- Original Message -----
From: "Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia" <arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:28 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Done


>
>
> > I guess that now he'll never learn what THE PLAN was. ;-)
> >
> > Vale,
> > Diana
>
> That IS a shame. It's such a great plan, too. One of the best.
>
> Arnamentia
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Comment: THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA FOR THE LEX FABIA D...
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 01:22:55 EDT

In a message dated 5/24/03 11:07:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
christer.edling@telia.com writes:


> This new Census law will lead to a cheaper Census, with the old law
> the expances will be hard to control. Please vote for Lex Fabia de
> Censo!
>
A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUCEMENT AGAINST THE LEX FABIA
Since I just returned home from Gaul I see that my kinsman Fabius and his
gang are trying to pass a lex that puts the responsibilties of contacting
disenfrancised citizens on the heads of the provincial praetors. This would work if
we actually have had provincial praetors that were responsible. However we
don't. The reason why it was left in the hands censors was obvious, it is their
job and they would complete it! But imagine my surprise when Fabius feels
that it will be cheaper for the provincials to handle it. Of course it is not
their job, so why will they care? It will not be handled with any efficiency.
And why was this never put forth in the Senate so the Senate could analyze
it? Usually it was tradition for the Senate to approve a consul's measure
BEFORE it was placed before the Comitia. However, Fabius doesn't listen to the
Senate who traditionally was to give advice. No, instead he by passes
them and brings it directly to the people. Makes one think of what else is
going on behind the scenes.
We should try out the Lex Cornelius before we replace it. But we never did.
It was never once followed even though it was A LAW! Does anyone else sees
this as strange?
It looks like people here once again have not a clue how government works.
Or is the CFQ clique so scared of Cornelius' influence here, that they have to
re title his laws?

I'll be voting no on this redundant law. I hope for NR's sake you do also.

Save us a lot of time.

Valete
Q Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Comment: THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA FOR THE LEX FABIA D...
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 06:16:10 -0000

Salvete Quirites; et salve, senator Maxime.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
>
> A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUCEMENT AGAINST THE LEX FABIA
> Since I just returned home from Gaul I see that my kinsman Fabius
> and his gang are trying to pass a lex that puts the responsibilties
> of contacting disenfrancised citizens on the heads of the
> provincial praetors. This would work if we actually have had
> provincial praetors that were responsible. However we don't.

My dear Q. Fabi; you have finally managed to insult hardly everyone
in Nova Roma in just a couple of sentences! My heartfelt
congratulations :-).

> The reason why it was left in the hands censors was obvious, it is
> their job and they would complete it!
> But imagine my surprise when Fabius feels that it will be cheaper
> for the provincials to handle it. Of course it is not their job,
> so why will they care? It will not be handled with any
> efficiency.

The censores *had* to implement a national census last year according
to the Lex Cornelia de Censo. But they didn't. If you ask the
censores, they will tell you why.

> And why was this never put forth in the Senate so the Senate could
> analyze it? Usually it was tradition for the Senate to approve a
> consul's measure BEFORE it was placed before the Comitia. However,
> Fabius doesn't listen to the Senate who traditionally was to give
> advice. No, instead he by passes them and brings it directly to
> the people.

Our Constitution says that it is the People (and not the Senate) who
makes laws. The Senate just has a say in those laws that ammend the
Constitution. Sometimes, a consul decides to present a legislative
proposal to the Senate for advice. That is the consul's sole
prerogative and privilege; it is not a duty either by law or by
tradition. And many consules in the past (like L. Cornelius Sulla, or
yourself, for example) have decided not to present their legislative
proposals to the Senate.

> Makes one think of what else is going on behind the scenes.

You have been trying to convince our citizenry that there is some
kind of complot around for many months without presenting any
evidence. What I am beginning to think is that there actually *is*
some kind of complot: one that is trying to destroy the
democratically elected government of Nova Roma on every occasion.

> We should try out the Lex Cornelius before we replace it. But we
> never did.

The Lex Cornelia (excuse me if I correct your horrible Latin, oh
Great Historian) explicitly said this:

"XI. The First Census will take place during the Consulship of Marcus
Octavius Germanicus and Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (2755 AUC)"

Was it tried out? Ask last year's consules. Ask particularly ex-
consul Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, who was the writer of the law
itself.

> It was never once followed even though it was A LAW! Does anyone
> else sees this as strange?

I don't know. Ask last year's consules. Do not ask this year's
magistrates, who had little to do with it.

> It looks like people here once again have not a clue how government
> works.

Ask last year's consules.

> Or is the CFQ clique so scared of Cornelius' influence here, that
> they have to re title his laws?
> I'll be voting no on this redundant law. I hope for NR's sake you
> do also.

This law can either be a mistake because it places the burden of the
census in the hands of our provincial magistrates (like yourself) or
it can be a redundant, innecessary law that doesn't change things.
But it can't be both.

> Save us a lot of time.

There is one thing in which you are right. Voting NO to this law
would save us time (particularly *your* time, since you are a
provincial governor). We already know that our current law will
produce no results, and that there will be no census at all under it
(since it expliticly instructed the government to produce a census
and since its own creator failed to enforce it).

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Comment: THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA FOR THE LEX FABIA D...
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 03:26:30 -0300 (ART)

Salvete, and salve, illustrus consularis Quintus
Fabius

--- qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com escreveu: > In a message
dated 5/24/03 11:07:09 AM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> christer.edling@telia.com writes:
>
>
> > This new Census law will lead to a cheaper Census,
> with the old law
> > the expances will be hard to control. Please vote
> for Lex Fabia de
> > Censo!
> >
> A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUCEMENT AGAINST THE LEX FABIA
> Since I just returned home from Gaul I see that my
> kinsman Fabius and his
> gang are trying to pass a lex that puts the
> responsibilties of contacting
> disenfrancised citizens on the heads of the
> provincial praetors. This would work if
> we actually have had provincial praetors that were
> responsible. However we don't.

M.Arminius: Are you saying that our provincial
pretores, like you and me, are irresponsable? Please
clarify.
BTW, I am more than happy in helping the Censores in
this task, since the provincial officers are the best
qualified ones to contact the citizens here (the
language issue, and the fact that internal mail and
phone calls are cheaper); if not, the Censores will
need to name a lot of scribes, when is preferable to
use the provincial officers.
And thank you for lowering even more the level of the
discussion. A "gang". Pfff.

> The reason why it was left in the hands
> censors was obvious, it is their
> job and they would complete it! But imagine my
> surprise when Fabius feels
> that it will be cheaper for the provincials to
> handle it. Of course it is not
> their job, so why will they care? It will not be
> handled with any efficiency.

M.Arminius: Well, to me is obvious that it will be
cheaper! Or you believe that a international phone
call, or a international letter, is cheaper than a
local one?
And i believe that the efficience in this job can be
done with much more efficiency than if done directly
from another continent.

> And why was this never put forth in the Senate so
> the Senate could analyze
> it? Usually it was tradition for the Senate to
> approve a consul's measure
> BEFORE it was placed before the Comitia. However,
> Fabius doesn't listen to the
> Senate who traditionally was to give advice. No,
> instead he by passes
> them and brings it directly to the people. Makes one
> think of what else is
> going on behind the scenes.

M.Arminius: Sometimes the consules put their laws
before the Senate, sometimes not. The people has the
contio to think about the law, and can hear the
Senatores during this time. And can vote NO. It is not
"going behind the scenes".

> We should try out the Lex Cornelius before we
> replace it. But we never did.

M.Arminius: Of course, the Censores stated that it
would be irrealistic. And nobody, not even you or
ex-Consul Sulla, protested at that time.

> It was never once followed even though it was A LAW!
> Does anyone else sees
> this as strange?

M.Arminius: Yes, that law was very strange.

> It looks like people here once again have not a clue
> how government works.
> Or is the CFQ clique so scared of Cornelius'
> influence here, that they have to
> re title his laws?

M.Arminius: The Fabian law is different from the
Cornelian one. In fact, is a step ahead. Since
sometimes is better replace than ammend a law with
much modifications, it has been renamed. Simply so.
Oh, and thank you for the "clique". Pfff, again.

> I'll be voting no on this redundant law. I hope for
> NR's sake you do also.
> Save us a lot of time.

M.Arminius: And i voted yes for it. I expect a
sucessful census this year.

> Valete
> Q Fabius Maximus

Valete
M. Arminius Maior

_______________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
O melhor e-mail gratuito da internet: 6MB de espaço, antivírus, acesso POP3, filtro contra spam.
http://br.mail.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Gallo-Roman Tombs
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?R6VJVkxJVlOlU0NBVlJWUw==?= <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 07:43:51 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to "DŽcouverte exceptionnelle de deux tombes
gallo-romaines ˆ NaintrŽ" (Vienne) [Exceptional Discovery of two
Gallo-Roman tombs at at NaintrŽ (Vienne)]:

http://www.culture.fr/culture/arcnat/naintre/naintre1.htm

The site is maintained by the French Ministry of Culture and is
devoted to graves and sarcophagi from late antiquity.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Comment: THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA FOR THE LEX FABIA D...
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 04:39:03 EDT

In a message dated 5/26/03 11:19:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
salixastur@yahoo.es writes:


> The Lex Cornelia (excuse me if I correct your horrible Latin, oh
> Great Historian) explicitly said this:
>
> "XI. The First Census will take place during the Consulship of Marcus
> Octavius Germanicus and Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (2755 AUC)"
>
> Was it tried out? Ask last year's consules. Ask particularly ex-
> consul Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, who was the writer of the law
> itself.
>
> > It was never once followed even though it was A LAW! Does anyone
> > else sees this as strange?
>
> I don't know. Ask last year's consules. Do not ask this year's
> magistrates, who had little to do with it.
>
> > It looks like people here once again have not a clue how government
> > works.
>
> Ask last year's consules.
>
> > Or is the CFQ clique so scared of Cornelius' influence here, that
> > they have to re title his laws?
> > I'll be voting no on this redundant law. I hope for NR's sake you
> > do also.
>
> This law can either be a mistake because it places the burden of the
> census in the hands of our provincial magistrates (like yourself) or
> it can be a redundant, innecessary law that doesn't change things.

> But it can't be both.
>
> > Save us a lot of time.
>
> There is one thing in which you are right. Voting NO to this law
> would save us time (particularly *your* time, since you are a
> provincial governor). We already know that our current law will
> produce no results, and that there will be no census at all under it
> (since it expliticly instructed the government to produce a census
> and since its own creator failed to enforce it).
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Census Precedents
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?R6VJVkxJVlOlU0NBVlJWUw==?= <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 08:53:34 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

I don't know about those propraetores and proconsules, but the
praefecti in Aegyptus seem to have this census business down, and I've
got the pictures to prove it.

Census declaration of Tbesis (someone's mother), Tbesis (age 7),
Tarechatis, Psenophois, Tereus (someone's mother) and Patesonthis
(P.Duk.inv. 985 V), dated 2nd century C.E:

http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/papyrus/records/985v.html

Two census declarations from the Arsinoite Nome (P.Duk.inv. 88 R),
dated 1st century C.E.:

http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/papyrus/records/88r.html

Census declaration of Ptolemaios from the village of Samareia (P.Tebt.
566), dated 133 C.E.:

http://dpg.lib.berkeley.edu/scripts/idc/apis/apis2.idc?APISID=189

Achilleus' census declaration (P.Tebt. 322), dated 29th year of the
Emperor Commodus, the 4th of the intercalary days (27 Aug. 189 C.E.):

http://dpg.lib.berkeley.edu/scripts/idc/apis/apis2.idc?APISID=273

Census declaration of Heras, daughter of Lysimachos of Arsinoe, Egypt
(P. Tebt 321), dated 9th year of the Emperor Antoninus (147 C.E.):

http://dpg.lib.berkeley.edu/scripts/idc/apis/apis2.idc?APISID=344

Census registration of Sansneus in Talei (P. Tebt. 481), dated 24th
year of the Emperor Antoninus Pius, 30th of the Egyptian month Pharmouthi
(25 April 161 A.D.):

http://dpg.lib.berkeley.edu/scripts/idc/apis/apis2.idc?APISID=66

And there are more pictures where I found those (this may set the
record for longest URL ever posted to NR, but it's worth it):

http://www.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/cul/apis/apisquery?criterionValue9=&fieldName9=Institution&joinCondition9=and&submit=search&criterionValue1=&fieldName1=Title%2FType&joinCondition1=and&criterionValue2=&fieldName2=Author&joinCondition2=and&criterionValue3=Census&fieldName3=Subject&joinCondition3=and&criterionValue4=&fieldName4=Provenance&joinCondition4=and&criterionValue5=&fieldName5=Notes&joinCondition5=and&criterionValue6=&fieldName6=Reference&joinCondition6=and&criterionValue7=&fieldName7=Language&joinCondition7=and&fieldName8=Material&joinCondition8=and&criterionValue8=&beginDate=30&beginDateEra=-1&endDate=&endDateEra=1&pub_coll=&inv_coll=&pub_vol=&inv_num=&pub_page=&cu001_inst=&cu001_num=

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus
(Hoping to reduce the temperature in the forum a bit...)

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Novus Romanvs
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 09:03:28 -0000

Salve Apulus and Omnes,

FOR OMNES
for the people don't speak latin the translation of the message by
Aulus Apulus is: (sorry for my english ;-)
"my name is Aulus Apulus Ageriusm, living in Lupiae (Lecce),
Provincia Italiaand member of the Gens Apula. I'm interesting about
history, laws and Roman language but I can speak italian, english,
german, spanish, greek and portuguese. I very like virtutes and
citizenship of Ancient Rome and I hope my several latin mails will
be received."

TO APULUS:
Welcome in Nova Roma and Provincia Italia, Illustrus Aulus. I live
in Barium and I visit for work every weeks Lupiae. I hope to meet
you sometimes. I would like to create an active group of nova romans
in our region, Apulia.
I invite you to subscribe the mailing list of Provincia Italia at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Italia and to visit the italian
website at http://italia.novaroma.org. If you have doubts or
questions please contact me.

[Benvenuto in Nova Roma e nella Provincia Italia, illustre Aulus. Io
vivo a Bari e vengo a Lecce ogni settimana per lavoro. Spero di
poterti incontrare qualche volta. Mi piacerebbe davvero creare un
gruppo attivo di nova romani nella nostra regione.
Ti invito ad iscriverti alla lista della Provincia Italia
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Italia e a visitare il nostro sito
ufficiale http://italia.novaroma.org. Se hai dubbi o domande non
esitare a contattarmi]

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
Pater Familias Gentis Apulae

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "avlvsapvlvsagerivs"
<Avv.A.Orlandini@k...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
> Mihi nomen est Avlus Apvlvs Agerivs,Lupiarvm incola,Provincia
Italia
> propterea petivi affiliationem ad gentem Apvlam.Mea interest
historia
> ivs et lingva Romanorvm sed possvm lingvam italicam
> vulgarem,britannicam,germanicam,hispanicam,graecam et lusitanam
> etiam intelligere.Exstimo mvltvm virtvtes civitatemque antiquae
> Romae et spero me multas epistulas latine loquentivm receptvrum
esse.
>
> Avlvs Apvlvs

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Comment: THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA FOR THE LEX FABIA D...
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 05:03:45 EDT

In a message dated 5/26/03 11:19:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
salixastur@yahoo.es writes:


> There is one thing in which you are right. Voting NO to this law
> would save us time (particularly *your* time, since you are a
> provincial governor). We already know that our current law will
> produce no results, and that there will be no census at all under it
> (since it expliticly instructed the government to produce a census
> and since its own creator failed to enforce it).
>

Ohhh low blow from CSA! Actually when I did my mass e-mailing to my province
about paying taxes I discovered many dead addresses which I duly reported to
the Censors.
So I'm way ahead of the curve here. However I'm a Praetor interested in NR.
I can't say that about every body else. As for why it wasn't implemented,
simple, the Censors didn't do it since they felt the law was unenforceable.
That's why. They did not even try, since they knew nothing would happen to them.

Valete
Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Contra New Census Law ;-)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 10:28:12 +0100 (BST)

Salve Caius Minucius,

> > As an incumbent governor, I do not begrudge Nova
> Roma either my time or my
> > money. Infact I have always contributed both, and
> willingly so. If this lex
> > passes, I will assist with the conducting the
> census and I will probably
> > even forego the promised tax credit. However, I
> believe it is wrong to pass
> > a lex that effectively takes our governors
> commitment in terms of time and
> > money for granted.
>
> Excellent: you're not arguing in your own defense
> but that of others -
> whoever they may be. Could you point out exactly who
> those people are,
> those magistrates that _do_ begrudge Nova Roma their
> time and a few
> cents? If you can't, I'm afraid that you have no one
> to defend - and
> your arguments have no point or validity.

Do you actually read before you post? I'm not arguing
in defence of anyone...quote - I believe it is wrong
to pass a lex that effectively takes our governors
commitment in terms of time and money for granted
-unquote. Geez, its like gauging your own eyes out
sometimes....

> Not me. I don't question your commitment to Nova
> Roma - only to an idea
> whose time has long passed. Let it be retired and
> rest in peace, as it
> so fully deserves.

????????????

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

__________________________________________________
It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others.
Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Contra New Census Law ;-)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Decimus=20Iunius=20Silanus?= <danedwardsuk@yahoo.co.uk>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 10:29:52 +0100 (BST)

Salve Consul,

> Even
> if we are at opposite sites when it comes to this
> law, I would stand
> by your side if anyone would question your integrity
> and dutifulness.

Thank you, amice.

Vale

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

__________________________________________________
It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others.
Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Comment: THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA FOR THE LEX FABIA D...
From:	"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@yahoo.es>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 10:42:55 -0000

Salvete Quirites; et salve, senator Q. Fabi.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> Actually when I did my mass e-mailing to my province
> about paying taxes I discovered many dead addresses which I duly
> reported to the Censors.
> So I'm way ahead of the curve here.

Excellent! This just proves that these things are better handled on a
provincial level.

> However I'm a Praetor interested in NR.
> I can't say that about every body else.

On my part, I am willing to give our propraetores the benefit of
doubt. And I think that they will take this as an excellent
opportunity to prove how interested they are in Nova Roma :-).

> As for why it wasn't implemented, simple, the Censors didn't do it
> since they felt the law was unenforceable.
> That's why. They did not even try, since they knew nothing would
> happen to them.

Even though, you want to keep things as they are... Makes no sense to
me.

CN·SALIX·ASTVR·T·F·A·NEP·TRIB·OVF

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Comment: THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA FOR THE LEX
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@konoko.net>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 07:39:04 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Senator Quinte Fabi,

> Since I just returned home from Gaul I see that my kinsman Fabius and his
> gang are trying to pass a lex that puts the responsibilties of contacting
> disenfrancised citizens on the heads of the provincial praetors.

That's right. The Provincial Praetores are by far the best equipped to do
so - they are closer to the citizens who will be contacted, they have a staff
of legates in place already, and they speak the same language as the citizens
to be contacted.

> This would work if we actually have had provincial praetors that were responsible.

I do not share your low opinion of the Provincial Praetores. The vast majority
of them are dedicated and hardworking and care about their provinces.

> The reason why it was left in the hands censors was obvious, it is their
> job and they would complete it!

It is not possible for the Censores to do this ourselves - there is not
enough time for two people (and a handful of scribae) to make nearly
two thousand phone calls, many of them international.

> Of course it is not their job, so why will they care?

It *will* be their job, once this lex passes; and a lazy propraetor can be removed
from office by the Senate much more easily than a Censor can be removed.

> And why was this never put forth in the Senate so the Senate could analyze
> it? Usually it was tradition for the Senate to approve a consul's measure
> BEFORE it was placed before the Comitia. However, Fabius doesn't listen to the
> Senate who traditionally was to give advice.

Where were you last year, when the Lex Cornelia Senatoria was announced without
any forewarning, and the other Consul wasn't even notified? I don't recall
you condemning *that*.

> We should try out the Lex Cornelius before we replace it. But we never did.

Because it's unworkable, and places far too much of a burden on only two
magistrates. The basic idea of a Census is good, and we're keeping that -
but the implementation in the Lex Cornelia is terribly flawed, and there
cannot be a Census until it is fixed.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus,
Censor, Consular, Citizen.
http://konoko.net/~haase/

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Done
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 13:35:48 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Moravia Aventina"
<diana@p...> wrote:
> Salve Agricola,
>
> <So, whats happened since, say, April?
>
> We made the plan.
>
> Vale,
> Diana
>
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!

C. P. Laenas

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Financial Controls
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 13:53:18 -0000

>>We need two permanent, Senate appointed, not elected Quaestors
or at least two elected ones with longer terms of office and each
would be in charge of one of the two bank accounts and yes the two
permanent Quaestors would need to be bonded.
May be a " Proquaestor" like a Proconsul. Just a thought

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus<<


Salvete Omnes,

Tiberius Galerius makes an excellent point about the need for a
permanent "Chief Financial Officer". Although it is not historical,
it is a need we have in current times. I have been thinking about
this since serving as Quaestor last year. Right now, the financial
records / duties are fragmented. The consultar quaestores, for
example, record the tax collection. However, since the bank account
and mailing remittance address are in Maine, Patricia Cassia must
remain involved and someone (I believe Patricia Cassia again) must
keep the books for transactions other than taxes.

Now Patricia Cassia was a great help to me during my tenure, and
perhaps she doesn't mind being involved in our finances on a
permanent basis. She is ceratinly the closest thing we have had to
a Chief Financial Officer.

Whether, Patricia Cassia or another, we need a Chief Financial
Officer who can exercise physical control over the bank account and
keep a real set of books (general ledger) for our Republic /
Corporation (remember NR is also a not-for-profit Corporation). The
books should be kept in accordance with generally accepted
accounting principles, and periodic balance sheets and income
statements should be produced.

I believe the value of bonding is dubious. The cost is $90 US
annually, and I believe collecting from the insurance company in the
event of a loss whould be difficult. Periodic financial statements
and a bank reconciliation reviewed by a committee of the Senate
would be a sufficient control.

I do not agree that there should be two such officers, one in the US
and one in Eurpor, rather, the financial function should be
consolidated, not furhter dispersed.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] THE PLAN: the Movie
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 16:00:01 +0200

<Maybe he can see the movie version of THE PLAN to be filmed at SPQR studios
< just outside of Rome.

LOL! Wait until Agricola he sees who is starring in the movie version of THE
PLAN.... There is of course a small cameo role with Arnold Swarzenegger in a
muscled curio (spelling?). His Austrian accent doesn't matter because he
only had to say 4 words over and over again ' We need a PLAN". :-)))

Vale,
Diana



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
From:	"aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 14:20:00 -0000

The citizen with the following voter tracking
number has a malformed or inaccurate voter code:

#884

Please remember to enter your code exactly as
it is given, and if you are unsure of your new
code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Attention Voters! Invalid Voter Code
From:	"aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 15:24:09 -0000

The citizen with the following voter tracking
number has a malformed or inaccurate voter code:

#902

Please remember to enter your code exactly as
it is given, and if you are unsure of your new
code, follow the instructions posted previously
to obtain your current voter code by e-mail:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/5339

Or you may write the censors: censors @ novaroma.org

Renata Corva
Sr. Rogatrix

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] CFQ and his "Gang!!!"
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 13:02:01 -0400 (EDT)

I am sorry to see that there are those who have so little respect for
the Honored Senior Consul who was brought to his seat by the Citizens of
Nova Roma, as to make reference to him in such a way. However, in my
humble opinion it reflects not upon Senior Consul Quintillianus, but
rather upon the person(s) who voices such verbalizations.

Further, As Senator Astur has pointed out, the good Senator Maxmus has
managed to insult virtually everyone in NR except those few who support
these kinds of outbursts.

I remind all that it was Consul Sulla who refused by his actions to let
the Senate vote thier views for or against an item brought before the
Senate last year. An action decried by many if not most of the Honored
Conscrpt Fathers, with the express exception of those who belonged to
his particular support group.

I will admit, that there appear to be two sides to this submitted
decision. I have tried to see the other side's view and the points that
they make, some of which I find of some concern, and I have advised the
Senior Consul accordingly as to my views. That is my task as a Senator,
and as an Advisor to the Senior Consul, as I see it. However, I most
emphatically reject insulting language, and crude names directed at
Citizens of NR who follow thier own minds, and who sincerely are trying
to better NR.

Obviously, crude words, generalized insults, and poorly concealed desire
for control of this micronation do no-one any great benefit, and set the
micronation back in direct proportion to the crudity of such
unacceptable comments.

I would hope that if it is absolutely necessary that we air all of our
political discussions on this List, that at least it could be done in a
less crude and insulting manner.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Novus Romanvs
From:	"avlvsapvlvsagerivs" <Avv.A.Orlandini@katamail.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 16:23:30 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salve Apulus and Omnes,
>
Salve F.A.Caesar
Thank you very much for your message.I'd be happy to meet you one of
these days and I hope we'll become good friends. It would be nice to
gather a local community of Nova Romans here in this part of Italy.
In this you can count on my support.I haven't the Nova Roma
Citizenship yet for I sent my application some days ago.
As I wrote in my introduction message ,I hope to stay in touch with
people who love the ancient roman traditions and culture,and make
many friends,even if they aren't latin speakers.
Feel free to message me any time-

Avlus Apulus Agerius

Salve F.A.Caesar
Ti ringrazio molto per il tuo messaggio. Sarei lieto di incontrarti
uno di questi giorni e spero che si possa diventare buoni
amici.Sarebbe bello se si potesse riunire una comunita' di Nova
Romani qui in questa parte d'italia. In questo potrai contare sul
mio sostegno. Come ho scritto nel mio messaggio di presentazione,
spero di entrare in contatto con persone che amano la cultura e le
tradizioni dell'antica Roma e fare
amicizie,aggiungo,indipendentemente dalla conoscenza del latino.
Scrivimi quando ti e' possibile

A.A.Agerivs

> FOR OMNES
> for the people don't speak latin the translation of the message by
> Aulus Apulus is: (sorry for my english ;-)
> "my name is Aulus Apulus Ageriusm, living in Lupiae (Lecce),
> Provincia Italiaand member of the Gens Apula. I'm interesting
about
> history, laws and Roman language but I can speak italian, english,
> german, spanish, greek and portuguese. I very like virtutes and
> citizenship of Ancient Rome and I hope my several latin mails will
> be received."
>
> TO APULUS:
> Welcome in Nova Roma and Provincia Italia, Illustrus Aulus. I live
> in Barium and I visit for work every weeks Lupiae. I hope to meet
> you sometimes. I would like to create an active group of nova
romans
> in our region, Apulia.
> I invite you to subscribe the mailing list of Provincia Italia at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Italia and to visit the italian
> website at http://italia.novaroma.org. If you have doubts or
> questions please contact me.
>
> [Benvenuto in Nova Roma e nella Provincia Italia, illustre Aulus.
Io
> vivo a Bari e vengo a Lecce ogni settimana per lavoro. Spero di
> poterti incontrare qualche volta. Mi piacerebbe davvero creare un
> gruppo attivo di nova romani nella nostra regione.
> Ti invito ad iscriverti alla lista della Provincia Italia
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Italia e a visitare il nostro
sito
> ufficiale http://italia.novaroma.org. Se hai dubbi o domande non
> esitare a contattarmi]
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
> Pater Familias Gentis Apulae
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "avlvsapvlvsagerivs"
> <Avv.A.Orlandini@k...> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes,
> > Mihi nomen est Avlus Apvlvs Agerivs,Lupiarvm incola,Provincia
> Italia
> > propterea petivi affiliationem ad gentem Apvlam.Mea interest
> historia
> > ivs et lingva Romanorvm sed possvm lingvam italicam
> > vulgarem,britannicam,germanicam,hispanicam,graecam et lusitanam
> > etiam intelligere.Exstimo mvltvm virtvtes civitatemque antiquae
> > Romae et spero me multas epistulas latine loquentivm receptvrum
> esse.
> >
> > Avlvs Apvlvs

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Last Year's Census
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 18:24:11 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

It seems that almost every time anyone breathes the
word 'census' in this forum one of a small selection
of individuals leaps up to launch a diatribe
concerning the failure of last year's Censors to
perform the census as mandated by the Cornelian law.
Sometimes the blame is pinned on no one in particular;
most of the time the blame seems to be placed, in
defiance of chronology and common sense, on the
current Senior Consul.

Well, I personally am sick and tired of it. I have
said this before in relation to the business with the
Aediles and the games, and I've said it in private
about the census, but let me say it once more:

Any citizen who believes that a law has been broken is
free to prosecute the offender for it.

Any citizen who does not believe that a law has been
broken but says so anyway is maliciously disrupting
civil society and making libellous and defamatory
accusations and invites the contempt of the populace.

Let's look at the wording of the Cornelian law, shall
we? It says:

"I. A Census of all citizens of Nova Roma should be
done every 2 years. This would be the responsibility
of the Censors."

Later, it says:

"XI. The First Census will take place during the
Consulship of Marcus Octavius Germanicus and Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix (2755 AUC)"

So, implementing this law was the responsibility of
the Censors, and the Censors in that year were Senator
& Consular L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur and Censor C.
Flavius Diocletianus. Anyone else's? No, theirs.

If anyone wishes to complain about the fact that they
did not perform the census, then he or she should file
a suit against them.

Anyone who does not have the courage or the conviction
to do this has no business complaining and should stop
stirring up trouble and distracting honest people from
the serious discussion of serious issues.

Next time I shall not be so restrained as to name no
names.

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others.
Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] gangs
From:	jan gram <janabc10@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT)

I am just curious. Isn't senator Fabius the paterfamilias of Consul Fabius, and if so why would he attack his own family, and how does that fit in the family system of Nova Roma, and what is the purpose of it anyway. I am not really trying to engage in an argument, just curious to understand. If my cousin becomes President of the United States, heck, I'll never attack him no matter how bad he may be and if anybody attacks him he'd better not do it in front of me.


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] NEW
From:	"leseulloupgarou" <leseulloupgarou@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 17:33:15 -0000

hi! i am new here! does somebody want to explain the latest
developmetns to me?

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] This Year's Census
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 18:36:49 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to all citizens and peregrines,
greetings.

I shall not bother to reply to the arguments of
Senator & Consular Fabius Maximus, because he has put
forward no serious arguments except one which is
insulting to the reputation of many and the
intelligence of the rest.

I shan't repeat in detail my disagreements with the
argument of Senator & Consular Iunius Palladius, which
is at least serious and worthy of remark: he does not
believe that the creation of socii is desirable, I
have given instances in which I think it would be
desirable.

I would like to add, however, that nothing the Fabian
law proposes to use the statistics concerning the
number of socii and the number of citizens in a
misleading or deceitful way. It does not suggest that
we claim socii are active members in order to bring in
new recruits; it does not suggest concealing the fact
that they have not answered the census and are
therefore probably inactive. It merely proposes to
create a category to put them in, and to put them in
it. I think this is useful; others may not; but I have
yet to hear any serious reasons why it would be
detrimental or harmful to anyone.

Finally, I'd like to call you attention to an
important message which appeared recently on this list
from one of the current Censors, Consular Octavius
Germanicus. He wrote:

"The Census is a good idea, and it is something we do
wish to perform this year - but as it currently
stands, it is an unmanageable task. With the Lex Fabia
de Censo, it will become possible, and it will be
done, and it will strengthen our provinces and promote
local communication."

In short, if we all vote in favour of the Fabian law,
the census will be done; if not, chances are it won't.

Surely this is the main purpose of the exercise - to
get the census completed? The Cornelian law *will not
get that done*: it orders that the first census be
done last year (impossible) and the next one be done
next year (still more than six months away). Moreover,
the Censors do not seem willing to implement it.

The Fabian law orders that it be done this year, and
the Censors are willing to implement it.

What more is there to say?

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


__________________________________________________
It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others.
Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: THE PLAN: the Movie
From:	"Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia" <arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 17:49:24 -0000

> His Austrian accent doesn't matter because he
> only had to say 4 words over and over again ' We need a PLAN". :-
)))

Actually, that's "Ve need a PLAAHN."
;-D

Arnamentia

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: NEW
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 18:57:53 -0000

Salvete omnes and especially Leseulloupgarou!

I would like to also introduce you leseulloupgarou who I know from
another yahoo list. As most of you may know, loupgarou is French for
werewolf that was a creature found in Greek and Roman mythology as
well and also my favourite monster! Now Leuseul has come to the main
list to get a feel for NR as I suggested. Leuseul would like to learn
a lot about Ancient Rome and our res republica. I confess that I was
less than honest with my friend; infact I maybe lied because I told
Leseul that there "could" be some people out there in Nova Roma who
just may be a little smarter and perhaps know even more than me about
Rome.(Grin)
In this case I hope you show Leseul what a big bs'r I am.
Lesuel,right now we are voting and having some debate about which is
the best way to do a proper census of NR that has about 1400 +
citizens. Some people think the status of totally inactive citizens
should be changed from citizen to associate. What is the criteria for
an active citizen is also being discussed on the ML.
Meanwhile any subject is up for discussion from what color sandals
the senators wore to Roman gallies off Yucatan (oh I wish). Again a
big welcome and don't be shy. As we say in the oil industry, the only
stupid questions are the ones that are not asked!

Valete bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "leseulloupgarou"
<leseulloupgarou@y...> wrote:
> hi! i am new here! does somebody want to explain the latest
> developmetns to me?

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Good news...
From:	Pipar - Steven <catamount_grange@inwave.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 14:11:25 -0500

Salus et Fortuna Omnes,

I've been incommunicado for some time now, personal health and work situation.

Big thing, though...

The fears my wife and I had of her having breast cancer have been put to rest. My beloved does not
have cancer, as was first thought, but the growth is a benign, fibrous cyst.

I'll be catching up on personal emails now that things are looking better here.

Looks like I'll be on a regular, Monday to Friday schedule at my employer soon, 4 am to 1 pm
stocking crew. I'll be able to plan life a little better, mend some fences, do things I should be
doing...

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Civis Nova Romana et Paterfamilias

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Good news...
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 19:35:49 -0000

Salve Piper Barbe!

My god and the Roman gods are with you. Pass on my regards to your
wife. I am glad everything turned out well. I know where you are
coming from because I've been through that with my wife.

May I suggest that we get our heads together and come up with some
nectar of the gods brew in our cooking group to clear our heads and
ease the tensions? Whenever you are ready sir!

Vale bene,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pipar - Steven
<catamount_grange@i...> wrote:
> Salus et Fortuna Omnes,
>
> I've been incommunicado for some time now, personal health and work
situation.
>
> Big thing, though...
>
> The fears my wife and I had of her having breast cancer have been
put to rest. My beloved does not
> have cancer, as was first thought, but the growth is a benign,
fibrous cyst.
>
> I'll be catching up on personal emails now that things are looking
better here.
>
> Looks like I'll be on a regular, Monday to Friday schedule at my
employer soon, 4 am to 1 pm
> stocking crew. I'll be able to plan life a little better, mend
some fences, do things I should be
> doing...
>
> --
> =========================================
> In Amicus sub Fidelis
> - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
> Civis Nova Romana et Paterfamilias

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] CFQ and his "Gang!!!"
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 15:56:56 EDT

In a message dated 5/27/03 10:06:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jmath669642reng@webtv.net writes:


> Obviously, crude words, generalized insults, and poorly concealed desire
> for control of this micronation do no-one any great benefit, and set the
> micronation back in direct proportion to the crudity of such
> unacceptable comments.
>
> I would hope that if it is absolutely necessary that we air all of our
> political discussions on this List, that at least it could be done in a
> less crude and insulting manner.
>

Agreed. Long plane flight, and I wasn't at my best. Do better next time.

QFM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: THE PLAN: the Movie
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 16:15:36 EDT

In a message dated 5/27/03 10:52:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
arnamentia_aurelia@yahoo.com writes:


> Actually, that's "Ve need a PLAAHN."
> ;-D
>
> Arnamentia
>

Nein,
Ve NEED der PLAN!
Arnie would never be so wishy washy...
Fabius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] gangs
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 16:13:48 EDT

In a message dated 5/27/03 10:38:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
janabc10@yahoo.com writes:


> Isn't senator Fabius the paterfamilias of Consul Fabius, and if so why
> would he attack his own family, and how does that fit in the family system of
> Nova Roma, and what is the purpose of it anyway. I am not really trying to
> engage in an argument, just curious to understand

Yes, one would think that wouldn't one? However, I have no potestas over
Fabius, and so all I can do is make suggestions which he is free to ignore. I
believe this census lex done at the provincial level is a bad idea. And I have
expressed that by using my right to free speech. This belief is based on many
years of experience as a media official in political campaigns is San Diego
and LA dealing with unpaid volunteers. Also it is based on spending years in
the film industry interns here in Los Angeles which tells me a lot about
people's basic nature. I just recently saw more of the same *&!) in Gaul at the
film fest.
I wanted to stand for Censor this year since I had worked on the Lex
Cornelia, and I knew what was needed to be done to carry it out. However political
necessities forced a change of direction and the chance was lost...

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Last Year's Census
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 16:53:18 EDT

In a message dated 5/27/03 10:28:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
cordus@strategikon.org writes:


> most of the time the blame seems to be placed, in
> defiance of chronology and common sense, on the
> current Senior Consul.
>

No, I don't believe that is the case at all. Fabius simply gives his name to
current government. And you are correct, that the Censors last year failed
in their duty assigned
by the Roman people. That was one reason why I wanted to stand as Censor.
Between
Flavius in Europe and I in the States, we could have accomplished the Census
of those two
areas by now, especially by June. As for regular mail in costs, Cornelius
never contemplated sending form letters. No, post cards like those used by the
US post office were in the plan, with a request to inform the sender if
occupant had left. If that was the case it would be returned to NR. If one moves
and doesn't inform their organization of the move, that is a pretty fair
indication they have no more interest in the organization.
Yet why didn't Fabius in his capacity of Senior Consul push to have the law
carried out? Looking on the facts you say because he had a better law in mind.
Fair enough. However when one looks at Iulius masterful analysis of the Lex
Cornelia and the Lex Fabia, one quickly sees the changes were minor. So why
did it take five months? And why does the current government expect the
Provincial Praetors to carry this out, without even giving them the nicety of a
request. This was never in the job description. I already carried out
my own impromptu survey during tax season, and forwarded the out of date
addresses to the Censor office. But I'm not a normal Provincial Praetor. I am
very committed to the success of Roma.
Perhaps the most logical thing to do here would be to merge the two leges
together. There is precedent. But the thing is Fabius cohorts would have to
share the Cornelian name.
And that seems more then they can bare.

Valete

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: THE PLAN: the Movie
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 20:30:23 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, qfabiusmaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/27/03 10:52:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> arnamentia_aurelia@y... writes:
>
Savete omnes,

Sorry but what's this movie about? I haven't seen it. Is it about
Barbarian government in Rome after der fall or old Arnie S. playing
Caligula?

Quintus Lanius Paulinus




> > Actually, that's "Ve need a PLAAHN."
> > ;-D
> >
> > Arnamentia
> >
>
> Nein,
> Ve NEED der PLAN!
> Arnie would never be so wishy washy...
> Fabius
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] New Warrior Challenge on PBS
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 16:31:02 -0500

The new episode of "The Warrior Challenge" on PBS tonight is
"Gladiators". It's on at(here at least) at 8:00pm
CDT. FYI!


Sextus Cornelius Cotta

Propraetor
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
Nova Roma
AIM: WyrdCharlie

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: THE PLAN: the Movie
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 17:53:43 EDT

In a message dated 5/27/03 2:46:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mjk@datanet.ab.ca writes:


> I haven't seen it. Is it about
> Barbarian government in Rome after der fall

Neither. Arnie plays Hermann the German in a retelling of Varius, Hermann
and Germanicus redoing the Ring saga...Hey wait...we have some thing here!
Honey, get my agent on the phone!

Fabius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Last Year's Census
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Apollonius=20Cordus?=" <cordus@strategikon.org>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 23:11:19 +0100 (BST)

A. Apollonius Cordus to Senator & Consular Q. Fabius
Maximus, and all citizens and peregrines, greetings.

You wrote:
> And you are correct, that the Censors last year
> failed in their duty assigned by the Roman people.

For the record, a second reading of my message will
reveal that I did not say this. I said that if there
was a failure, the people legally culpable would be
the Censors. I wasn't a citizen at the time and I'm
not much interested in whose fault was was last year,
so I offer no opinion on whether there has been any
such failure.

My point is that if *you* think there has, you should
either prosecute or stop complaining about it. And
before anyone waves that banner, this is not an
attempt to curtail anyone's free speech - everyone is
perfectly entitled to say whatever they wish - it is
merely an attempt to point out that certain words,
when not backed up by certain actions, constitute
hipocrisy and disturbance of the peace.

> Yet why didn't Fabius in his capacity of Senior
> Consul push to have the law carried out?

I haven't asked and he hasn't told me, but off the top
of my head I think the most likely explanation is that
it would be utterly absurd to hassle the Censors to
carry out a law which says that they must do something
*last year*.

The Cornelian law orders the Censors to carry out the
census last year and every two years from then on. Are
you suggesting the Consul should be pushing the
Censors to *have already done it*, or to leave it till
next year?

I think he's right in choosing neither, but putting
out a new law asking them to do it *this year*.

> But the thing is Fabius cohorts would have to
> share the Cornelian name.
> And that seems more then they can bare.

If you are under the impression that my colleagues and
I are strongly committed to the name Fabius, I've no
idea where you've got it from. It's not my name - why
should I be concerned for the glorification of someone
else's clan?

If Senator Sulla or anyone else were proposing a law
which would get the census carried out this year, I'd
vote for it. But the Cornelian law as it stands is
unlikely to get the census done; whereas one of the
Censors has stated quite clearly and unambiguously
that if the Fabian law is passed then he will
undertake the census.

The purpose of the exercise is to get the census done.
A Censor says the Fabian law will get the census done.
What more is there to say?

Cordus

=====


www.strategikon.org


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Suggestion (shooting my mouth off)
From:	"crunniuc" <crunniuc@yahoo.com>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 19:32:01 -0000

I suggest that Nova Roma create a smaller sub organisation which
would focus entirely on Religion. THis group should charge a fee of
20-40 US dollars a year and publish a web site. It should be open to
all Roman Religionists wether they are members of NOva ROma, the
Societas Via ROmana, ADF, Hellenion, or whatever. It would function
as a "Ring of Troth" for Religio.

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] finances
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 19:01:15 -0400

On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 05:31 PM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Patricia Cassia was a great help to me during my tenure, and
> perhaps she doesn't mind being involved in our finances on a
> permanent basis. She is ceratinly the closest thing we have had to
> a Chief Financial Officer.

If such a position were to be created, and if it pleased the Senate and
People to appoint me to it, I would be willing to take it on. It
certainly isn't a one-person job! Perhaps such a person should be given
the assistance of a number of the Quaestores of the year, or given the
right to appoint scribae/bookkeepers to assist?

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: gangs
From:	Patricia Cassia <pcassia@novaroma.org>
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 19:07:17 -0400

On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 05:31 PM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Isn't senator Fabius the paterfamilias of Consul Fabius, and if so why
> would he attack his own family, and how does that fit in the family
> system of Nova Roma, and what is the purpose of it anyway

The family system was active in ancient Rome -- most family members
hung together politically, and while there were certainly cases where
brother publicly opposed brother, it was considered the exception
rather than the rule. Also, over time, the more numerous families
developed branches, so that the Cornelii Gracchi and the Cornelii
Metelli might find themselves on opposite sides of an issue. (I don't
know whether those two specific branches ever opposed one another, I'm
just using the names as an example.)

The family (gens) system has been the subject of much debate in Nova
Roma, and there are currently several sorts of gentes. I would never
expect every Cassius or Cassia to support my views, and while the
Cassian bond might keep me from being completely rude to a "relative"
whose views I disliked, I would certainly not hesitate to express my
opposition in dignified terms.

-----
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] finances
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Wed, 28 May 2003 01:14:48 +0200

Salvete Quirites!

When I appointed Illustra Patricia Cassia my Vicaria Officina Aerarii
it was my intention that she would be taking exactly the position as
"Chief Financial Officer". The Consular Ouaestors being the
politically responsible, but the Vicaria giving the stability.

This has functioned even better than I thought during the first part
of this year. Still there have been one unplanned complication, as
Quaestor Illustrus Sextus Apollonius Scipio has had to get a leave
of absence because of private and health reasons. This have lead to
the fact that Ilustra Patricia Cassia has been "forced" (out of duty)
to take more work on her shoulders than was intended in the
beginning. Illustra Patricia Cassia have kindly taken this burden on
herself although she have had planned to attend to other more private
studies.

As the idea with a Officina Aerarii and a Vicaria/Vicarius was my
idea and it has show itself to function, I fully support such a
development. I think the next years Consuls should be free to appoint
their own Cohors though. Still I would advise them to employ., if at
all possible, the excellent skills of Illustra Patricia Casia as
Vicaria/"Chief Financial Officer".

>On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 05:31 PM, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>> Patricia Cassia was a great help to me during my tenure, and
>> perhaps she doesn't mind being involved in our finances on a
>> permanent basis. She is ceratinly the closest thing we have had to
>> a Chief Financial Officer.
>
>If such a position were to be created, and if it pleased the Senate and
>People to appoint me to it, I would be willing to take it on. It
>certainly isn't a one-person job! Perhaps such a person should be given
>the assistance of a number of the Quaestores of the year, or given the
>right to appoint scribae/bookkeepers to assist?
>
>-----
>Patricia Cassia
>Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
>Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Suggestion (shooting my mouth off)
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Tue, 27 May 2003 19:48:31 -0400

This is actually something that is being discussed by the Pontifices and the Collegium. I think it is a good idea for Nova Roma to "get serious" about the Religio, especially when there are two pontifices who have not paid their taxes, and several priesthood holders are delinquent as well.

I joined Nova Roma because of the Religio, not because of the politics.

Vale;

G. Modius Athanasius
Flamen Pomonalis
(also a Senior Druid, Guild Chief, and Dedicant Priest within ADF)

In a message dated 5/27/2003 2:32:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, crunniuc@yahoo.com writes:

>
>
> I suggest that Nova Roma create a smaller sub organisation which
> would focus entirely on Religion. THis group should charge a fee of
> 20-40 US dollars a year and publish a web site. It should be open to
> all Roman Religionists wether they are members of NOva ROma, the
> Societas Via ROmana, ADF, Hellenion, or whatever. It would function
> as a "Ring of Troth" for Religio.