Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 03:04:00 -0000

Salvete omnes and my friend Spurius,

When these two gentlemen got fighting it is clear what happened to
one of them regarding the fine and paper work for Senator Audens.

Now Romanus I see was very obnoxious and that kind of lecturing and
preaching would even put a lot of Christians off. He was clearly
breaking the rules or laws regarding blaspheming the Religio Romano.
However, if a citizen does slip in a heated debate like the one we
all wish to forget about in recent history, does he or she have a
chance to apologize, pay a fine, smarten up etc. or is expulsion from
NR automatic and decided by the senate? It seemed that Romanus did
not get the same break to recant and smarten up as his opponent did
or am I missing further detail?

Still my fellow Nova Romans, I guess our penalties on this matter are
relatively light. The drilling foreman I am working with just came
here from 12 years in Saudi. He says you pull that same thick headed
stunt preaching, blaspheming and trying to apostasize people over
there, more likely than not that thick head of yours can end up
flying off your shoulders in a fountain of blood and dancing a few
feet across a sand filled square with the crowd shouting Allah Ahkbar!
One should indeed follow the rule that says, when in Rome do as the
Romans do.


Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@novaroma.org>
Date:	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:14:06 -0500

Salve Quinte Lani

>However, if a citizen does slip in a heated debate like the one we
>all wish to forget about in recent history, does he or she have a
>chance to apologize, pay a fine, smarten up etc. or is expulsion from
>NR automatic and decided by the senate? It seemed that Romanus did
>not get the same break to recant and smarten up as his opponent did
>or am I missing further detail?
>

You are missing something. The Fannius-Marconius affair happened under
an older constitution, in which cives could be expelled by the senatus.
Under the current constitution, the senatus is not empowered to
involuntarily remove cives' civitas. Only a trial before one of the
trina comitia may do that, and only the Comitia Centuriata may remove it
permanently. Therefore, a consul (or a praetor if both consules are
unavailable) and the voting populace must be convinced that exile is
warranted before a civis suffers such a fate. And, it is the Collegium
Pontificum which would start such a process by requesting action on the
part of the praetores. They're unlikely to do that unless it's a fairly
egregious case.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus

--
May pre house the seamy side volitation!!!

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:46:07 -0400

Salve Senator Audens,

> As a matter of fact Fannius was fined $5.00 and assigned to me for six
> months to oversee a task which would forward Nova Roma. I contacted
> Fanniius and told him of the fine and suggested an area of effort for
> which he had earlier expressed an interest. I asked him to return to me
> a planof action for this effort together with a rough timetable of
> completion. The gentleman niether paid the fine, nor completed the
> project to which he had agreed.

I can't say I would have expected him to. It was probably easier for him to simply resign his citizenship.

<snip>

> As Senator Fabius Has indicated, I niether expected him to pay the fine
> nor complete the project, but he was certainly provided the chance to do
> so.

And I think that should be all Nova Roma should be expected to do -- provide an opportunity for offenders to work off their punishments.

> I see no real purpose in repeating this trial, since in my view the
> answer is plainly obvious. As the good Senator says, we have no control
> over such punishments as indicated above. If punishments must be
> inflicted for those who violate our laws, (and there have been a few
> examples) then in my view the punishments should be something which can
> be controlled by the elected Magistrates. We tried the method outlined
> above, and it did not work even though the young man was given every
> opportunity to do so. It didn't work. Solution, don't do that again!!!

I would then have to be persuaded to agree with your solution, with nothing to add to it.

Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Sp. Postumius Tubertus" <postumius@gmx.net>
Date:	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:48:08 -0400

Salve Quinte Lani,

> Still my fellow Nova Romans, I guess our penalties on this matter are
> relatively light. The drilling foreman I am working with just came
> here from 12 years in Saudi. He says you pull that same thick headed
> stunt preaching, blaspheming and trying to apostasize people over
> there, more likely than not that thick head of yours can end up
> flying off your shoulders in a fountain of blood and dancing a few
> feet across a sand filled square with the crowd shouting Allah Ahkbar!
> One should indeed follow the rule that says, when in Rome do as the
> Romans do.

You know, sometimes a good lopping off of one's head makes one realize when to shut up. Don't you agree?

Vale,

Sp. Postumius Tubertus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 03:56:20 -0000

Salve T. Labiene,

Thank you for the clarification. I have noticed that our Pontificum
tends to be on the more lenient side of these things and as you
indicate it would have to be blatently serious to trigger their
actions. Well I am certainly glad to see that the new constitution
has several steps built in before such a serious action is taken.

Best regards, Quintus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Fortunatus <labienus@n...> wrote:
> Salve Quinte Lani
>
> >However, if a citizen does slip in a heated debate like the one we
> >all wish to forget about in recent history, does he or she have a
> >chance to apologize, pay a fine, smarten up etc. or is expulsion
from
> >NR automatic and decided by the senate? It seemed that Romanus did
> >not get the same break to recant and smarten up as his opponent
did
> >or am I missing further detail?
> >
>
> You are missing something. The Fannius-Marconius affair happened
under
> an older constitution, in which cives could be expelled by the
senatus.
> Under the current constitution, the senatus is not empowered to
> involuntarily remove cives' civitas. Only a trial before one of
the
> trina comitia may do that, and only the Comitia Centuriata may
remove it
> permanently. Therefore, a consul (or a praetor if both consules
are
> unavailable) and the voting populace must be convinced that exile
is
> warranted before a civis suffers such a fate. And, it is the
Collegium
> Pontificum which would start such a process by requesting action on
the
> part of the praetores. They're unlikely to do that unless it's a
fairly
> egregious case.
>
> Vale
> T Labienus Fortunatus
>
> --
> May pre house the seamy side volitation!!!

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:06:52 -0000

> You know, sometimes a good lopping off of one's head makes one
realize when to shut up. Don't you agree?
>
> Vale,
>
> Sp. Postumius Tubertus

Salve Postumi,

i couldn't agree more. It sure sounds like quite the place. Not to
get too far off topic I'll only say this - Much as I enjoy wine beer
and rum off and on I would avoid that over there as much as I would a
kilo of cocaine in your country. Also the Saudi Ambassador to the US
on a Tv debate on capital punishment told a few x-gang members that
in his country they have harsh laws to make kids like them think a
good 10x before pulling some of their stunts. Yep, the thought of
losing my head or a hand sure would encourage me to think a good 50x
Spurius!

Best regards friend,

Quintus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin Pronunciation
From:	jan gram <janabc10@yahoo.com>
Date:	Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:10:14 -0700 (PDT)

that would've been ianitor with the accent on the a

Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net> wrote:Salvete Omnes,
Thanks for all the responses. I am going to use both Custos(even
though it sounds like I'm a Janitor and not a Guard) and Excubitor
which is my first choice.


Sextus Cornelius Cotta

AIM: Walhalla47

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] A Evening with Romans ? A n outline
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:23:22 -0400

Salve Romans

This information is provided to ask if you think NR could/should do something like this but with a Roman theme. (This could be done on a provincial basis)

"Near the Fourth of July each year, the Maryland Humanities Council presents free Chautauqua's, where scholar/actors and the local community come together in a tent under the stars to watch a presentation from America's past and to talk about the characters and ideas of the times being portrayed. Five community colleges dotted across the face of Maryland serve as the sites for these programs.

Chautauqua is a uniquely American tradition. The Chautauqua movement began in the Lake Chautauqua area of New York in 1874 as a training course for Sunday school teachers. In 1878 the concept extended its philosophy of adult education to include an appreciation for the arts and humanities through the Chautauqua Literary and Scientific Circle. Study courses in history, art, literature, foreign languages, the classics, and music history reached nearly 80,000 Americans in the program's first decade.

About 1904, independent Chautauqua went on the road as part of the Lyceum movement. Lyceums brought lecturers and entertainers to small town America, especially in the summer when travel was easier. Chautauqua producers offered a variety of arrangements, from seven days of programs for the larger, wealthier towns to two and three night stands which small towns could afford. Even the tiniest villages could look forward to an annual visit by a dusty Chautauqua tent with shows priced so that most could afford to join in the fun. In its early years, traveling Chautauqua's offered lectures by Biblical historians, political theorists, foreign language scholars, as well as dozens of programs to help improve skills and sharpen minds. .....

Maryland's 2003 program is entitled " Let Freedom Ring! these are the four programs from American History

a.. Tuesday, July 8 - Susan B. Anthony

b.. Wednesday, July 9 - Frederick Douglass

c.. Thursday, July 10 - Thomas Paine

d.. Friday, July 11 - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Are there any "one person" Roman themed plays that could be adapted to this purpose?

Do we have anybody in NR who is a playwright?

If we were to try this as a NR outreach project, what four "Romans" would you suggest? What themes?

A historic Roman talking about the "Legacy of Rome" ? "Letters from Cicero" ? Laws of Rome by Justinian?

An Evening with Marcus Aurelius ( on the stoic philosophy) ? Caesar's letters from Gaul?

An Evening with a Roman Matron ( on life as a woman in the Roman world)?

Sallust, Livy, or other roman Historians ? Spartacus on slavery in the ancient/roman world?

Should they be limited to "Republican" personages ?

Do we have enough information for "Roman" music to be played before the presentations and if so by whom? Should one of the four be a Legionary, that would describe life in the Army? ( most of the program should be, in my mind at least, non-military)

Would we want to serve some Roman food?

Just some food for thought

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Proposal for a Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum
From:	"Diana Moravia Aventina" <diana@pandora.be>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:31:38 +0200

Salve Senior Consul,

Just a quick note to say that I printed out your proposal (all 10 pages!)
and will read it in detail as soon as possible!

Vale,
Diana Moravia



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Evening with Romans ? A n outline
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 03:04:02 EDT

In a message dated 6/18/03 10:26:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, spqr753@msn.com
writes:

Salvete curator Romanoi
> Are there any "one person" Roman themed plays that could be adapted to this
> purpose?
>

Tullius certainly uses dialogue to get his point across/

> Do we have anybody in NR who is a playwright?
>

Apollonius Cordus and I have written seperate plays. In fact I just
finished a new translation of Lysistra which is Aristophanes, of course, but Romans
did produce many
Greek plays.

> If we were to try this as a NR outreach project, what four "Romans" would
> you suggest? What themes?
>

Legendary Romulus to start, we have Plutarch and Dionysios discription. Be
easy to write a play about that.

Furius saving the republic from the Gauls and Samnites. That would be
interesting.

Iulius Caesar even though it is Shakespeare. It's still a classic, and
beautifully written.

> A historic Roman talking about the "Legacy of Rome" ? "Letters from
> Cicero" ? Laws of Rome by Justinian?
>
> An Evening with Marcus Aurelius ( on the stoic philosophy) ? Caesar's
> letters from Gaul?
>

I like an evening with Aurelius. But that would be a tough act to pull off.
Who else here beside Fabius Metellus is an actor? One man shows are hard to
pull off.

> An Evening with a Roman Matron ( on life as a woman in the Roman world)?
>
> Sallust, Livy, or other roman Historians ? Spartacus on slavery in the
> ancient/roman world?
>
> Should they be limited to "Republican" personages ?
>

I think the Republic is the most important period of Rome. But that's my
opinion.

> Do we have enough information for "Roman" music to be played before the
> presentations and if so by whom? Should one of the four be a Legionary, that
> would describe life in the Army? ( most of the program should be, in my mind at
> least, non-military)
>

Roman "music" is a mystery. Likely it was influenced by the Etruscans who
may have used middle eastern themes. Certainly many of the instruments are
similar.
I certainly don't know. Another reason we need a Roman behind a door.

> Would we want to serve some Roman food?
>

There is an excellent Roman 7 course feast, for mundane people. My old unit
served it once before during my SCA days. People tend to look askance at the
Roman diet, due to all the exotic frills. These are mercifully absent.

Fabius Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Proposal for a Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <christer.edling@telia.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:45:04 +0200

Salve Senior Tribuna Plebis!

I am glad that You are taking time to read this proposal. Please
observe that the actual law is less than _four_ pages (Times,
size12)! ;-)

>Salve Senior Consul,
>
>Just a quick note to say that I printed out your proposal (all 10 pages!)
>and will read it in detail as soon as possible!
>
>Vale,
>Diana Moravia

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senior Consul et Senator
Propraetor Thules
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Cohors Consulis CFQ
http://www.insulaumbra.com/cohors_consulis_cfq/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman Vienne
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?R6VJVkxJVlOlU0NBVlJWUw==?= <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:54:40 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to the _Athena Review_ article on "Sites and Museums in
Roman Gaul -- Vienne and St. Romain-en-Gal":

http://www.athenapub.com/rhone5.htm

And a link to the French Ministry of Culture's "Ancient Vienne" site:

http://www.culture.fr/culture/arcnat/vienne/fr/

This site provides a virtual tour of Roman Vienne, images of excavated
artifacts, and a discussion of archaeology int he city. The site is
available in both French and English.

And a map of Roman Vienne:

http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/isle/vienne03.htm

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Fr. Apulus Caesar
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:15:47 -0000

Salvete Omnes and Belisarius,

for the people don't speak italian, I said that in October Provincia
don't organize event and I don't know if there are other
manifestations. However we'll be very happy to meet Belisarius. He
answered me with the tour of his trip.

Belisarius, I live in Bari, in the south cost of the Adriatic Sea.
The nearest city is Amalfi (wonderful area ;-), it's 200 km far for
my house. We could visit the close Pompei and Herculaneum. What do
ou think?

Do you come to the Meeting of Bologna in August?

Vale
FAC


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
<mballetta@h...> wrote:
> Tanti Grazie Fr. Apulus Caesar,
> Si, l'ho capito, posso leggere piu meglio di parlare hahaha.
> Visitero Roma, Venezia, la costa Amalfi, Firenze e Baveno a Largo
> Maggiore per 15 giorni.
> Ti mandero il mio itinerario quando e pronto.
> Sarebbe un piacere di conoscerti.
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Belisarius,
>
> se hai difficoltà a comprendere il mio italiano, chiedimi di fare
la
> traduzione in inglese.
> Il prossimo evento di Nova Roma in Italia è in Agosto a Bologna.
Dopo
> ci sarà il Mercato della Centuriazione a Villadose (RV) (vicino
> Venezia) dove alcuni nova romani si esibiscono.
> A ottobre non abbiamo ancora previsto nulla e non penso ci sia
> qualche evento ufficiale.
> In ogni caso avvisami quando vieni in Italia, sarà un piacere per
noi
> darti il benvenuto e incontrarci. In che città andrai?
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> Propraetor Provinciae Italiae
>
>
>
> Salve Honorato,
> Mi chiamo Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius da Nova Roma.
> Non parlo Italiano proprio bene e il mio Latino non e piu meglio.
>
> Visitero' Italia in Ottobre, ci sara qualche avvenimenti Nova Roma
> quel meze?
> Mille grazie

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Meeting reservations
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:02:53 -0000

Salvete Omnes,
I remember you all that tsere are the last days to resevate your
flat in the residence during the Nova Roma International Rally in
Bologna (IT) from 1st to 3th August.
The flats are in ancient building of Middle Ages in the center of
teh city, close the famous Piazza Maggiore, the square with the
Triton.
Each flat have bath, kitchen, TV, air conditionated, etc. We are
organizing the flats and maybe we'll have 3-4 flats with 2 beds and
a couple of big flat with 6-7 beds.
The price of the flast is 35 Euro per person per night.

If you want reservate your flat please contact me at
fraelov@yahoo.it [fraelov @ yahoo.it] since the next week-end.
After I can be sure to resevate for you.

We hope to meet several nova roman from evrywhere, we're organizins
good event for you. :-)

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senior Curule Aedile

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Roman Navy Film
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:43:42 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

A new film have been developed in Italy about the history of roman
Navy and based on the latin book of the famous Claudius Rutilius
Namazianus. The film is about the trip of the Praefectus from Rome
to Toulouse.
http://www.tamtamcinema.it/film.asp?lang=eng&id=471

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Historical CLothing
From:	Karen Blackburn <Karen-Julia@mail.ie>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 04:32:34 -0700 (PDT)

I just used 2 pieces of fabric 40" wide by the measurement of shoulder to knee plus 6" for hems etc. This material is wide enough to allow for short sleeves but if longer ones are needed (and in Ireland they frequently are) I just measure around the widest part of the arm and add 4" for comfort and seams and then around the hand plus 2" and shape the material from the shoulder to wrist as necessary. I sew this in at the top of the side seam and then sew from the wrist up to the armhole and then down to the hem in one go. For the neck I actually shape a basic shape using a plate, larger at the front and smaller at the back for comfort, but you can also just leave a plain slit for the head to go through, whatever is more comfortable for the wearer. Very quick and easy, and if you are lucky enough to be able to use the material side to side for the length, you don't even need to hem. I use linen or cotton, with a basic sleeveless brushed cotton undertunic for cold days. For special occasions the remains of silk material imported from China has been found. Embroidery was also used mainly along the hems for anyone keen enough to add this decoration for special tunics. Leaving aside the extra decoration, I can sew 3/4 tunics in a day for my husband. Sorry for the delay in answering but I am having trouble with my email at the moment.

Iulia Vespasia


--- "zak29577" <casca@post.com> wrote:
>Salve,
>
>Many thanks for your input. Your method sound easy enough that I
>can probably do it myself without cutting off more than two or three
>fingers, or sewing myself to the fabric. ;-)
>
>I left your original message full length in case someone interested
>missed it when you sent it.
>
>Vale,
>
>-- Casca
>
>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
><gawne@c...> wrote:
>> Gaius Ursus Casca asked Salve Iulia Vespasia:
>>
>> > I am wondering where you got the pattern to make your husband's
>> > tunic.
>>
>> While we wait for Iulia to reply, I'll mention that a classic
>> Roman tunic is very easy to make. It's just two rectangles of
>> wool or linen sewn together, leaving a gap for the neck and an
>> armhole on each side.
>>
>> For my own tunic, I cut two 30 inch by 40 inch pieces of cream
>> colored wool and sewed them together. (A single 40 inch long
>> piece of 60 inch wide fabric cut in half works perfectly.)
>> If you want a longer tunic, just cut a longer length.
>>
>> Leave an unsewn gap about 12 inches wide in the middle of the
>> top so you can get it over your head, and similar gaps at each
>> corner so you can stick your arms through it. That's all it
>> takes! I hemmed all of my edges, though even that is not
>> strictly necessary. But it does prevent ravelling over time.
>>
>> -- Marinus
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Lacus Magni Gathering 3 Date Announced!
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 05:57:41 -0700 (PDT)

After consulting with and hearing from many people about what date would be best for the gathering, we have come to agreement om Saturday, October 18th. Mark your calenders!

I understand it is a little later this year, but hopefully this will allow more people to attend since all of the major summer activities will be completed by then.

I will post more info and get the website updated soon.

Vale,




Marcus Bianchius Antonius
Propraetor, The Great Provincia Lacus Magni

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Yahoo Chat On our Mailing List
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:11:04 -0000

Salve to our list moderators et omnes,

I just recieved a question from one of our Spanish Nova Romans wo had
trying to communicate with my fellow Roman, Titus Pius. He wanted to
try and get the chat icon on this list working. I told him that we
use the forum Romanum or quite often MSN messenger chat. I told him I
would ask the list moderators as to why we can't use the chat
directly on this list. I'll wait for your answer and send him a reply
as well as any futher suggestions.

Regards,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] An evening with Romans
From:	"gkbagne" <gkbagne@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:33:24 -0000

>From Lepella, to All Salvette!
Although no ancient Roman music survived, some ancient Greek did,
and might be used- after all Romans admired Greek culture and
probably would have listened to Greek musicians.
Many Roman foods could be served as appetizers, most was meant to
be served as finger food. There is garlic and herb cheese to dip
bread in, meatballs cooked in fish sauce, fried balls of herbed chick-
peas, little cheese and honey cakes, and dates stuffed with pine-nuts
and cream cheese. I've served all to the approval of even fussy
eaters. The sodalis coq et coq. would be glad to provide recepies.
As for a lecture or play; how about letters to or from a soldier.
With a 20 year enlistment, letters must have had to explain a lot,
from family matters to politics.
Here in Reno our local PBS station sponsors a Chattaquwa, but uses
profesionals with national reputations, so most local participation
is frozen out. However, I think its a good idea to work out a model
presentation that we could access if an opporunity came up.
Would anybody be interested is a Sodali Scriptori where those of us
interested in writing about ancient Roman subjects could exchage
ideas, proof each other's work and provide mutual moral support?
Be Well (imperative!)

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] An evening with Romans
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:38:36 -0400

Salve

" Here in Reno our local PBS station sponsors a Chattaquwa, but uses professionals with national reputations, so most local participation is frozen out."

I would love to get some funding but I wrote this as a NR stand alone project not to be part of Chattaquwa but to use their program as a guide for a Roman a NR one.

Vale

Tiberius
----- Original Message -----
From: gkbagne
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:33 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] An evening with Romans


From Lepella, to All Salvette!
Although no ancient Roman music survived, some ancient Greek did,
and might be used- after all Romans admired Greek culture and
probably would have listened to Greek musicians.
Many Roman foods could be served as appetizers, most was meant to
be served as finger food. There is garlic and herb cheese to dip
bread in, meatballs cooked in fish sauce, fried balls of herbed chick-
peas, little cheese and honey cakes, and dates stuffed with pine-nuts
and cream cheese. I've served all to the approval of even fussy
eaters. The sodalis coq et coq. would be glad to provide recepies.
As for a lecture or play; how about letters to or from a soldier.
With a 20 year enlistment, letters must have had to explain a lot,
from family matters to politics.
Here in Reno our local PBS station sponsors a Chattaquwa, but uses
profesionals with national reputations, so most local participation
is frozen out. However, I think its a good idea to work out a model
presentation that we could access if an opporunity came up.
Would anybody be interested is a Sodali Scriptori where those of us
interested in writing about ancient Roman subjects could exchage
ideas, proof each other's work and provide mutual moral support?
Be Well (imperative!)



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Evening with Romans ? A n outline
From:	Bill Gawne <gawne@cesmail.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:41:32 -0400

Quintus Fabius Maximus asked:

> Who else here beside Fabius Metellus is an actor?

If you include amateur gigs and community theatre, I've done a bit of that.
I also teach, and that gives me ample opportunity to "strut my hour upon
the stage" as well. If the idea is to do this somewhere in Maryland,
I'm close by.

Tiberius, let's see what we can work out. Where/when were you thinking of
doing this?

-- Marinus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] An evening with Romans
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@cesmail.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:45:46 -0400

gkbagne <gkbagne@hotmail.com> writes:

> Would anybody be interested is a Sodali Scriptori where those of us
> interested in writing about ancient Roman subjects could exchage
> ideas, proof each other's work and provide mutual moral support?

I think the Sodalitas Musarum (mailing list ForTheMuses) is the
appropriate existing venue for this.

-- Marinus

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Evening with Romans ? A n outline
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:47:45 -0400

Salve Marinus

We need to develop the idea . Decide what the program will be, get volunteers , find location around the state ( Community colleges, Parks, write a budget, ) etc . get it started in the Fall say October ?



Vale

Tiberius





----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Gawne
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A Evening with Romans ? A n outline


Quintus Fabius Maximus asked:

> Who else here beside Fabius Metellus is an actor?

If you include amateur gigs and community theatre, I've done a bit of that.
I also teach, and that gives me ample opportunity to "strut my hour upon
the stage" as well. If the idea is to do this somewhere in Maryland,
I'm close by.

Tiberius, let's see what we can work out. Where/when were you thinking of
doing this?

-- Marinus


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Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Evening with Romans ? A n outline
From:	Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@cesmail.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:55:45 -0400

Salve Tiberius,

> We need to develop the idea . Decide what the program will be, get
> volunteers , find location around the state ( Community colleges, Parks,
> write a budget, ) etc . get it started in the Fall say October ?

OK. I've just made a calendar notation for October 4th, to contact
you about developing this "Roman Chataqua" around the state. I think
it might go well on some of the smaller college campuses, in places
like Frostburg and Winchester. I can be the front man at Towson
University, since I teach there.

I think we can spare the mainlist the details of our planning,
but I do want folks here to know that things are cooking in
Mediatlantica.

-- Marinus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Fr. Apulus Caesar
From:	"Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:30:41 -0000

Salve,
My apologies for not adding the translation.
Unfortunately I will not be able to visit in August - I live on the
Island in New York and vacation time is limited.
I will be visiting Pompei on my visit though, so if it isn't
inconvenient for you, I would love to meet there.
My Grandparents were born in Bari. The names Zacchio and Ameno. My
grandmother (Ameno) came from an aristocratic family with several
brothers in the clergy (priest), government (mayor) and teaching
(teacher) professions but we have lost all contact with any family
from those times.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Franciscus Apulus Caesar"
<sacro_barese_impero@l...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes and Belisarius,
>
> for the people don't speak italian, I said that in October
Provincia
> don't organize event and I don't know if there are other
> manifestations. However we'll be very happy to meet Belisarius. He
> answered me with the tour of his trip.
>
> Belisarius, I live in Bari, in the south cost of the Adriatic Sea.
> The nearest city is Amalfi (wonderful area ;-), it's 200 km far for
> my house. We could visit the close Pompei and Herculaneum. What do
> ou think?
>
> Do you come to the Meeting of Bologna in August?
>
> Vale
> FAC
>SNIP>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Evening with Romans ? A n outline
From:	"Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@msn.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:02:06 -0400

Salve Marinus

No The first performance would be in October. Planning starts NOW.

Vale

Tiberius

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A Evening with Romans ? A n outline


Salve Tiberius,

> We need to develop the idea . Decide what the program will be, get
> volunteers , find location around the state ( Community colleges, Parks,
> write a budget, ) etc . get it started in the Fall say October ?

OK. I've just made a calendar notation for October 4th, to contact
you about developing this "Roman Chataqua" around the state. I think
it might go well on some of the smaller college campuses, in places
like Frostburg and Winchester. I can be the front man at Towson
University, since I teach there.

I think we can spare the mainlist the details of our planning,
but I do want folks here to know that things are cooking in
Mediatlantica.

-- Marinus


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Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:13:22 -0000

With pleasure!
Mithras was the Roman Soldiers God. He was also known as the Sun God.
The story goes that He single handedly slew a great white bull by
jumping upon its back, pulling up its head by the horns and drawing a
knife across its throat.
The blood that spilled from the bull fertilized the fields to grow
the wheat and crops for a plentiful harvest.
>From this act came the ceremony of bread (from the wheat) and wine
(to represent the blood). Sound familiar? It gets better.
The symbol for the Sun (God) was the cross and Mithras was born on
December 25th. He was worshipped, unlike many Pagan Gods outside
under the open sky, in an underground temple called a Mithreum and
making the sign of the cross with holy water was not uncommon.

During the reign of the Emperor Constantine by a holy sign during
battle (the Chi Rho across the sun), Constantine saw this as a sign
from the new god Christ for victory. The sybol for the early
christians (the XP chi rho an X with a P going through it or a fish)
was never a cross.
The Emperor jumped on the bandwagon of the new up and coming religion
and wanted everyone to join him which most did to be popular.
In later years, those who did not convert were tortured or killed as
a method of persuasion. Torquemada of the infamouse Spanish
Iquisition was a zeallous converter and many of our kind were
pressed, screwed, and burned at the stake for their faith.
Also, many of our Holy days were adopted and changed to coincide with
the chritian holidays to make it easier to persuade people to change
over.
The birthday of Jesus for example was moved from the spring to the
Winter Solstice time of Yule and birthday of Mithras. Oestara the
celebration of the re-birth of the Sun God by the holy union of the
God and Goddess became Easter with the rebirth of the cricified
Jesus. Ever wonder where the bunny rabbit and eggs come from?
The sacred animal of the Goddess is the Rabbit and to represent the
fertility of re-birth, painted eggs were given as offerings.
I have many more examples if you are interested (like the true story
of the miracles of which you spoke - they were metaphors for what
actually occured).
Never forget - these traditions were practiced centuries prior to the
birth of Jesus. It is a shame the Goddess aspect was removed from
their religion by the men who rewrote history but in Mary - she still
holds some influence and representation of the true Goddess.
What perspective the truth lends reality!
P.S.
No offense is meant to any christians but this is all fact that no
member of the clergy will deny when questioned.
Anyone who exhibits the peaceful nature of any religion they profess
has my respect. I do however have a personal grudge
against "Political Religious Business Organizations" (Vatican) that
use these beliefs to controll the masses by fear and misinformation
(Propaganda) and don't practice what they preach. Honestly, I have
many friends in the Judeo-Christian faith and great respect for their
beliefs however misguided. It is their expression of love that I
respect. I also have clergy friends that love to discuss the truths
behind the current practices with mutual respect. The fact remains
that many christians have no concept of the truth behind their
religion because it was withheld from them and that is just "so not
right".

Vale et benedictus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@d...> wrote:
> Salve Marce,
>
> I sure agree that the Christian Church, particularily the Roman
> Catholic kept many of the pagan religious ceremonies in its
adjenda,
> wherever it went all over the world; a rather smart move in my
> opinion because it made the converts forcebly or not forcebly
> integrated, more at home. I read how the venerations of Mary are
> often analagous to Isis, the vestments and incense along with the
> patron saint's feast days certainly reflect pagan Rome and my
Mexican
> wife and I love doing the beautiful Day of the Dead ceremony that
> integrates the Aztec relgious festivities with Catholicism. In
Brazil
> and Haiti, the African pagan festivities are also integrated. I'll
> have to read some more on Mithra to see the connection but I'll
> certainly take your word for it as I write this posting.
>
> In conclusion, I wish to say that I generally find the Roman
Catholic
> services, especially with its integrated pagan formalities a very
> rich thing to watch thanks to its pagan ceremonial integration.
>
> As far as real miracles go, I have seen none preformed in any
relgion
> in my life; ones from changing water into wine on the spot to a
stick
> changing into a snake, a man into a bull or lead into gold. No
matter
> what the religion, most are based on faith and can never be
performed
> on the drop of a hat. In that respect I am a doubting Thomas until
> one kicks me in the face.
>
> Anyway, I feel that all Nova Romans no matter what faith, should
> educate themselves about the Religio Romano. Would you please give
us
> a little run down on Mithraism and its ceremonies when you have a
> chance. I realize it came from Persia but was very popular with the
> Roman soldiers abroad who brought it back home.
>
> Yours respectfully,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>
>SNIP >

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Fr. Apulus Caesar
From:	"Franciscus Apulus Caesar" <sacro_barese_impero@libero.it>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:23:56 -0000

Salve,

> My apologies for not adding the translation.

Don't worry, I have corrected soon ;-)

> Unfortunately I will not be able to visit in August - I live on
the
> Island in New York and vacation time is limited.

I'm sad, I hope to meet the highest number of nova romans.

> I will be visiting Pompei on my visit though, so if it isn't
> inconvenient for you, I would love to meet there.

Yes, of course. I suggest you to visit Herculaneum, the famous and
wonderful Villa of Papyres is now open.
BTW the area of Naples have several wonderful roman ruins. For
example the imperial house of Adrianus in Capri or the roman tunnels
under Naples.

> My Grandparents were born in Bari. The names Zacchio and Ameno.
My
> grandmother (Ameno) came from an aristocratic family with several
> brothers in the clergy (priest), government (mayor) and teaching
> (teacher) professions but we have lost all contact with any family
> from those times.

This is a wonderful thing, so you have the bllod of my city :-)))
I don0t know this names but maybe my grandparents knew yours. The
parents of my grandfather were famous priests, Bux.
Why you don't visit "your" city? It's not beautiful like the others
cities but it could be interesting ;-)

Vale
Fr. Apulus Caesar

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:39:15 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
<mballetta@h...> wrote:
> With pleasure!
> Mithras was the Roman Soldiers God. He was also known as the Sun
God.
> The story goes that He single handedly slew a great white bull by
> jumping upon its back, pulling up its head by the horns and drawing
a
> knife across its throat.
>> No offense is meant to any christians but this is all fact that no
> member of the clergy will deny when questioned.

SNIP FOR SPACE
> Anyone who exhibits the peaceful nature of any religion they
profess
> has my respect. I do however have a personal grudge
> against "Political Religious Business Organizations" (Vatican) that
> use these beliefs to controll the masses by fear and misinformation
> (Propaganda) and don't practice what they preach. Honestly, I have
> many friends in the Judeo-Christian faith and great respect for
their
> beliefs however misguided. It is their expression of love that I
> respect. I also have clergy friends that love to discuss the
truths
> behind the current practices with mutual respect. The fact remains
> that many christians have no concept of the truth behind their
> religion because it was withheld from them and that is just "so not
> right".
>



> Vale et benedictus
>
>Salve Marce,

A hearty thanks for your time and effort on this informative write
up. Fortunately I had some sisters of charity and Jesuits teach me my
early religious studies and they taught all about how pagan symbolism
and legends had been integrated into Catholicism. My mother studied
all the classics in university as well and often whispered this to
us as we watched the mass ceremonies as youngsters. Correct me if I'm
wrong but their were many different Christian churches and customs in
Roman times but I think it was Constantine who actually got the Roman
Catholic church going as we know it today by the Edict of Milan.

About 45 years ago, Pope John XX111 was progressive enough during the
2nd Vatican Council to acknowledge and proclaim that the Reformation
was as much the fault of the Catholic Church as anyone elses, the
encouraged and / or ignored persecution of the Jews was a huge error
and from now on anti-semitism would be considered a serious sin and
abomination to God. He went on to say that we must reconcile and have
dialogue with all other world religions and recognize there are quite
possibly other paths to spiritual eternity.

I have read a lot on Christ but I must further educate myself on the
sensitivities of the pagan religion. If the teachings of Jesus had
been properly followed the atrocities against our pagan bretheren may
well have been avoided. Now my name is Quintus, not Jesus or Mithra
but based on Christian teaching, I wish not to be in the shoes of
Torquemada or the Conquistadors when they face my God. Their
spiritual fates are for God to decide but on the human level they
were just agents of the devil or negative gods. I'm optomistic
however that the wounds of old injustices and worse will eventually
heal and we can all cooperate in a spirit of brotherhood. Still we
must realize that there will always be fanatics and (censored).....
disturbers who will always try to keep old wounds alive but we should
not let them deter us. Thanks for the blessing!

Yours respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus
>
>

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin Pronunciation
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:43:50 -0400

Have you considered using "vigiles" instead of custos or excubitor. The vigiles acted as the night guard for the city of Rome from the period of the Republic until the early Empire. They were charged with patrolling the city streets at night, acting as monitors in the markets, and were occasionally used in military actions.

F Gal Aur Sec

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:45:05 -0000

Salve Marce Ambrosi,

A facinating post and I would love to read more, if not here
privately or in another venue.

As one who was raised Roman Catholic it seems obvious that pieces of
the old paegan way were preserved in various "traditions" of the
Church. For example, every Saint is a patron Saint of something or
other, sounds much like how the Gods are often each associated with
a specific aspect of human life.

Portestant Christians often point to what Catholics call "veneration
of Mary" as idolatry. I would have to say that make a case, since
Mary also has several different aspects each special to a specific
area of human existance.

None of this is meant as offense to any Catholics or Christians. If
I did ofend anybody and they want to get me back, jsut show this
post to my wife. Her father was the only one of 4 brothers who
didn't enter the priesthood and she is VERY Catholic. ;-O

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin Pronunciation
From:	jan gram <janabc10@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:04:46 -0700 (PDT)

wouldn't that be the police

PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com wrote:Have you considered using "vigiles" instead of custos or excubitor. The vigiles acted as the night guard for the city of Rome from the period of the Republic until the early Empire. They were charged with patrolling the city streets at night, acting as monitors in the markets, and were occasionally used in military actions.

F Gal Aur Sec

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin Pronunciation
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@spamcop.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:25:22 -0500

Vigiles might be the one I might use because from what I understand
there was really no private security force as we
know it today. There might have been some sort of force but,
I imagine they were mostly thugs and criminals used to
protect property from their comrades in crime. My ISP will let
me set-up up to 10 extra POP3 accounts, so I might use all 3
names.


Sextus Cornelius Cotta

AIM: Walhalla47

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Resignation
From:	"Diana Meridia Aurelia" <diana_h@surfeu.de>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:30:48 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

I come before you today to announce my resignation from Nova Roma.
I do this for private reasons - none that I would like to discuss in
public. It has taken me a long time to arrive at this decision, and
for this very reason I believe it is the right thing for me to do.

It has been an education and an honor to be part of Nova Roma.
Lucilla Meridia will follow me as head of Gens Meridia, if the
Censores agree. So I will not part and leave behind me a leaderless
gens.
I have received much support and friendship during my time here in
Nova Roma, especially from the members of my own province of
Germania. Gaius Flavius Diocletianus has honored me with a trust I
know I can never repay him for. You have my gratitude, Cai.

To all of you - may the Gods always protect you and lead Nova Roma to
the greatness she aspires to.

Valete,
Diana Meridia Aurelia

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:32:20 -0000

Salve Gaius,
LOL - Yes, I understand.
Idol worship is always confused and attributed to Pagans. We worship
idols no more than a christian worships the cross or a statue of a
saint. They are icons to represent a Diety, not the Diety itself.
Anytime you want informations, publicly or privately, let me know.
The reason there are so many Saint holidays was because the church
forbade fighting on holidays so even though they instigated the
cruisades they also tried to hold back the killing by creating
holidays.
Many saints to represent lesser Dieties of the Pagans and Santoria -
another Pagan ofshoot incorporates the saints of the chrtian church
into their practices though they have different names.

As to the water into wine miracle -
Clarafication:
Common people at weddings were not allowed to dring wine, only water.
Jesus was trying to reform the strict rules of the times and one of
his public displays was allowing everyone at the wedding in Cana to
drink wine so metaphorically speaking - he turned the water into wine.
All of the other miracles are very similar in nature with logical
explanations.
No doubt he was a wonderful man, smart, benevolent and big hearted.
I admire his teachings very much as I do Muhammed and Buddha.
Godhood was thrust upon him unwillingly and he never claimed to be a
god and no more the son of God than the rest of the people.

Another interesting and often hidden fact was that he married and had
children not to mention he had siblings.
How difficult could it have been for his younger brother James do
think?
Constantly being compared, lol. Why can't you be more like your
brother Jesus? LMAO.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<ksterne@b...> wrote:
> Salve Marce Ambrosi,
>
> A facinating post and I would love to read more, if not here
> privately or in another venue.
>
> As one who was raised Roman Catholic it seems obvious that pieces
of
> the old paegan way were preserved in various "traditions" of the
> Church. For example, every Saint is a patron Saint of something or
> other, sounds much like how the Gods are often each associated with
> a specific aspect of human life.
>
> Portestant Christians often point to what Catholics
call "veneration
> of Mary" as idolatry. I would have to say that make a case, since
> Mary also has several different aspects each special to a specific
> area of human existance.
>
> None of this is meant as offense to any Catholics or Christians.
If
> I did ofend anybody and they want to get me back, jsut show this
> post to my wife. Her father was the only one of 4 brothers who
> didn't enter the priesthood and she is VERY Catholic. ;-O
>
> Vale,
> Gaius Popillius Laenas

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:51:26 -0000

Salve Quintus,
You are correct, Constantine was instrumental at promoting the church
and chritianity. Can you imagine the influence and money with the
backing of the Emperor?
Ah the Jesuits - I admire them, the militay hand of the church.
Missionaries skilled in politics as well - they had a very tough job
but did it well.
There have been few in the church to admit their past misdeeds and
usually when confronted pubilicly. There were many atrocities during
the second world war that the church overlooked so that the Germany
army would leave them untouched.
As you say, their fates will be decided - karma. It happens in this
life and all the succesive ones until atoned for.
When people live their lives knowing they are personally responsible
for their sins and that another (not even God) can fogive them, they
will be much better people. Enough to scare the daylights out of me,
hehehe!
One day, hopefully, we will all be able to live in harmony, there are
many paths to the same end; some shorter than others. In the end,
all the Gods are one God and all Goddesses one Goddess. We need to
lose the dogma and concentrate on the main ideas of peace and
brotherly/sisterly love. Too many rules, laws and scripture only
make that harder to achieve not to mention the fanatics of which you
spoke.
Vale

Snip
> A hearty thanks for your time and effort on this informative write
> up. Fortunately I had some sisters of charity and Jesuits teach me
my
> early religious studies and they taught all about how pagan
symbolism
> and legends had been integrated into Catholicism. My mother studied
> all the classics in university as well and often whispered this to
> us as we watched the mass ceremonies as youngsters. Correct me if
I'm
> wrong but their were many different Christian churches and customs
in
> Roman times but I think it was Constantine who actually got the
Roman
> Catholic church going as we know it today by the Edict of Milan.
>
> About 45 years ago, Pope John XX111 was progressive enough during
the
> 2nd Vatican Council to acknowledge and proclaim that the
Reformation
> was as much the fault of the Catholic Church as anyone elses, the
> encouraged and / or ignored persecution of the Jews was a huge
error
> and from now on anti-semitism would be considered a serious sin and
> abomination to God. He went on to say that we must reconcile and
have
> dialogue with all other world religions and recognize there are
quite
> possibly other paths to spiritual eternity.
>
> I have read a lot on Christ but I must further educate myself on
the
> sensitivities of the pagan religion. If the teachings of Jesus had
> been properly followed the atrocities against our pagan bretheren
may
> well have been avoided. Now my name is Quintus, not Jesus or Mithra
> but based on Christian teaching, I wish not to be in the shoes of
> Torquemada or the Conquistadors when they face my God. Their
> spiritual fates are for God to decide but on the human level they
> were just agents of the devil or negative gods. I'm optomistic
> however that the wounds of old injustices and worse will eventually
> heal and we can all cooperate in a spirit of brotherhood. Still we
> must realize that there will always be fanatics and (censored).....
> disturbers who will always try to keep old wounds alive but we
should
> not let them deter us. Thanks for the blessing!
>
> Yours respectfully,
>
> Quintus Lanius Paulinus
> >
> >

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin Pronunciation Vigiles?
From:	raymond fuentes <praefectus2324@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:14:48 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,
To whom it may concern...I was under the impression for a very long time that the Vigiles...created by Augustus- were firefighters primarily and augmented the Prefecture by serving as a night police force of sorts. I myself am a police officer and that is what we were taught and what I have read in my own research... just a thought.
Marcvs Flavivs Fides
Vigiles might be the one I might use because from what I understand
there was really no private security force as we
know it today. There might have been some sort of force but,
I imagine they were mostly thugs and criminals used to
protect property from their comrades in crime. My ISP will let
me set-up up to 10 extra POP3 accounts, so I might use all 3
names.


Sextus Cornelius Cotta

AIM: Walhalla47

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Fr. Apulus Caesar
From:	"Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:24:22 -0000

Salve mio nuovo Piasano,
I plan on it. The first 3 out of 15 fully packed days should be at
the Grand Hotel Vesuvio in Sorento while on the Amalfi coast at the
Grand Hotel Vesuvio in Sorrento, 150 feet above the Gulf of Naples
and bounded on three sides by ravines - sounds glorious. Visits
include the excavated Roman town of Pompeii at the foot of Mt.
Vesuvius and the island of Capri one of my favourites places to
relax.
This is not my first trip to Italy but it will be for my Lady. Her
roots are from Potugal and she has spent time there with her
grandfather before he passed on.
My fathers father was from Napoli and his mother was from Messina in
Sicily. My grandparents all passed on many years ago.
I would love to take a side trip to Bari but I admit I could never
grasp that dialect, lol. My own mother could never understand her
parents Italian but could understand the Napoletano and Siciliano of
her babysitters, hahaha.
I have never been to the Northern Lake region before on the Austro-
Swiss border - I hear it is beautiful. I'll be in Baveno on Largo
Maggiore and hope to have time to cross over into Switzerland too.
Thank you so much for the more than friendly
extension.


SNIP>
> Yes, of course. I suggest you to visit Herculaneum, the famous and
> wonderful Villa of Papyres is now open.
> BTW the area of Naples have several wonderful roman ruins. For
> example the imperial house of Adrianus in Capri or the roman
tunnels
> under Naples.
>snip
> This is a wonderful thing, so you have the bllod of my city :-)))
> I don0t know this names but maybe my grandparents knew yours. The
> parents of my grandfather were famous priests, Bux.
> Why you don't visit "your" city? It's not beautiful like the others
> cities but it could be interesting ;-)
>
> Vale
> Fr. Apulus Caesar

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Legion XXIV Vicesima Quarta Newsletter June 2003
From:	George Metz <legionxxiv@comcast.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:39:31 -0400

VICESIMA QUARTA - NEWSLETTER
JUNE 2003
LEGION XXIV MEDIA ATLANTIA
Defending the Frontiers of Ancient Rome
in the Mid-Atlantic Province of North America

Gallio Velius Marsallas
George W. Metz Praefectus / Commander
13 Post Run - Newtown Square PA 19073
legionxxiv@comcast.net 610-353-4982
www.legionxxiv.org

John Ebel, Summa Palus, Lead Gladiator
Box 2146 - East Hampton, NY 11937
631-329-2430 home 800-926-2306 office
gladius1@optonline.net

Avete et Salutatio Commilitones

ADVENAE - (Newcomers)
We have had a flurry of new Romans expressing interest in the Legion.

Robert Wierzbicki (Caius Gallus Naevius) is from Highland Lakes, NJ.
We will be looking for him at the Lakewood Lions Ren Faire?

Michael Parrinello of Lindenhurst, NY has expressed interest in the
Legion and we look forward to seeing him at a future event.

David Wilson (Gallio Drussus Caledonia) is out in Twinsburg, OH.
He is assigned to our mid-west Vexillation, in charge of Optio Quintus
Fabricus Varus (David Smith).
Gallio Drussus, will we see you at Fort Malden, August 2 & 3?

James Stys (Tiberius Justus Agrippa) is on duty up north in Nashua, NH.

Mark Jamison will be serving as a Vexillation member down south
in the Roanoke, VA provincia.

888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

ROMAN DAYS - AFTER ACTION

Our Noble Senator Audens presents the following After Action Report,
for which the Commander offers his grateful thanks. It saved him a lot
of remembering and typing.
He begs your leave to present you with a report on the subject event, from
the perspective of the Ludi Maximus Gladitori, and your honored servant
Marcus Minucius Audens.

I arrived on site after making my arrangements in a local sleeping villa
offered for the purpose. We immediately determined that the tent site
from the previous year, had been reserved for our use, and thereupon set
up our campsite on the Gladiator Field. Following the camp set-up and a
very nice talk with the Event Organizers, and Commander Amt of the XXth
Legion, my wife and I engaged in a leisurely and very pleasant and
enjoyable luncheon with the owners and operators of the "Wren's Nest" --
our faithful Roman Sutlery and good friends, after which we returned to
our sleeping villa.

There, we were greeted by Senator Maximus, Tribune Diana Aventina and
Citizen Icundia Flavia among others. The "Wolf of Britain" was there
with his lovely wife, as well as Senator Cincinnatus and his two
children. Merlina joined us, and there was also a legionary from, I
believe, the XXth Legio, whose name I did not catch. After a greeting
and some discussion we settled upon having dinner together at the
"Bamboo Joint" a banquet establishment in the same building as the
sleeping villa. The table and dining room arrangements were very nice
but the meals were very slow, and much of the advertised menu was not
available. Not recommended in the future for dining exclusively. We
were joined there by Senators Cassius and Cassia, and the galla
discussions and reveling among old friends and the enjoyment of meeting
new ones, overcame the shortcomings of the eating establishment, to a
great degree. The establishment has no license for the sale of wine, so
a cup of Falernian with the meal also had to be foregone. A sad comment
indeed!!!!!!!!!!

On Saturday morning, prior to dawn, the rain had already begun, and we
made our way to the event site for an early post-dawn meeting with the
"Summa Pallas" of the Ludi, (John Ebel). After the directions for the
day were passed on;-- Awards were made to the "Wolf Of Britain" (Mike
Catellier) Gladiator, which raised him to the position of "Primus
Pallas" (First / Senior Gladiator) of the Ludus, a Rudius Of Achievement
was presented to the "Summa Pallas" in recognition of his efforts and
success in the areas of the law, and the raising of the "Retiarius From
Hell" (Al Barbato) to "Secundus Palus" (Second Gladiator). These awards
and appointments were made in the continuing process of establishing the
Ludus as a unit of reenactment, in and of itself. These awards and
appointments were approved and applauded by our Legion XXIVth
Commander, Tribunus Militum Gallio, under whose auspices the Ludus
now operates.

The remainder of the rainy Saturday was given over to relating
explanations and stories as appropriate to a few of the spectators who
braved the rain, and who stopped by to partake of a taste of Roman
culture. My Patrician Colleague, and fellow Civil Architecturas (Brian
Mackey) was there all day and we were pleased to share a significant
amount of data as well as a very enjoyable company. The Senator's tent
was often the focus for much visiting and fun. For my part, I must
report that in spite of the weather I found the company and spectator
interest to be well worth the minor weather concerns.

Saturday afternoon saw the necessity of business with the arrival of
another engineering gentleman and his wife from Antioch. Saturday
Evening's supper and visiting time was spent in engineering discussions.

Sunday Morning, I asked the Gladiators to meet at the Senator's Tent for
a post-dawn meeting to plan the day's Events with the Ludus, and
determine what the Primus Palas had in mind. The plans were extensive
for a Sunday, and soon all were busy, laying out practice weapons,
special armor, and setting up the practice butt, and "dressing out" for
the day's events. The Gladiator's were in fine form and spent the
morning working out in their assigned places. I had the very brief (an
"old man brief" -- Grin!!!!!) exercise with the Secundus Palus
("Retiarius From Hel") on one hand he with net and trident and on the
other myself with my German Long Spear. Interesting that!!! -- not to
mention exhausting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How glad I am that
I am a talker and not a fighter!!!

In the afternoon we made ready to put on the Gladiator Show.
The Gladiators entered the Gladiatorial Arena and were introduced.
The Master of the Games was pointed out to the spectators.
The first fight was between the two "Noxii" who were surrounded by a
number of Legionaries from Legion XX to form an escape proof
amphitheater "ring".
These Legionaries from Legions XX and XXIV were introduced and the
troops and the Optio were cheered. The Roman Crowd was called
together and briefed on their "responsibilities," Brian Mackey served as
the Master of the Games, sweating heavily over the happiness of the crowd
and appealing for consideration to elevate him to a envied position in the
coming elections. Senator Maximus very generously agreed to act in the
arena as "Lanistae." His precision and control therein was valuable in
all the presented activities.

The "Noxii" were placed in a ring of legionaries and "Urged" to begin
fighting. The axe-man broke his axe upon the shield-man's buckler, and
another weapon was provided. Eventually the shield man prevailed, and
his opponent fell. Mercury hastened in with Charon following to insure
the man's death was final, with the red hot poker and black mallet, to
smash his skull.
His throat was cut, and his lifeless body dragged through the "Gates Of
Death" to his ultimate "reward."

The remaining Noxii began to get above himself and when the Narrator
asked if he was, in his own mind, now a "Gladiator" -- he replied that
he was!!!!! The Narrator then bade "the new Gladiator" to fight the
five heavily armed legionaries who then descended upon the miserable
wretch and overwhelmed him. He joined his firmer opponent in his final
resting place!!

The second match was between the "Wolf Of Britain" and the "Retiarius
from Hell (The Underworld)"
(No expensive gladiator was purchased for a death match!! A definite
reflection on the Master of the Games and his financial status)
This was a "point match" in which the determined victor was the
Retarious after a determined and skillful attack. The "Wolf" mounted
some vigorous attacks of his own, but an unfortunate step saw him downed.

An unplanned third match was held at the crowds clamoring insistence
with loud cries of "Wolf!, Wolf!!, Wolf!!!" -- and amid cries of scorn
for the Retiarius. This third match was also a "point match" (victory
awarded on points allotted by the lanistae) and after some strenuous and
vicious attacks, the "Wolf" was downed again, and only the "point match"
designation saved the "Wolf's" life as the crowd wanted more blood, and
their "favored one" changed in the blank of an eye!!!!!

After the Gladiator Presentation, I had the honor to be approached by
two gentleman who asked me about the possibility of joining Legio VI,
(upstate New York) and I spent a good part of the remainder of the
afternoon discussing with them what was needed in relation to their kits
and the responsibilities of that position in reenactment.

My Architechturas Colleague carried on with the spectators which were
interested in our displays, and there were several photo sessions both
with the Legio XX and with the Senatorial Party.

Our thanks go to Legio XX for allowing Nova Roma to participate in
"Roman Days" and to Commander Amt, particularly for his friendly and informative welcome, and his invitations to take part with the XXth Legion
in the photo sessions, and to the Event Coordinators and to the beautiful
grounds of the Marietta Mansion for an excellent event, and my thanks to
the "Wren's Nest" and the other sutlers, for adding that very realistic bit
of color to this event. We were all very pleased to have the opportunity to
talk with old friends and meet new NR friends long known only by the
messages on the internet. The opportunity to be once again with friends
in Nova Roma was in my view well worth the trip, and the sustaining of
one day of rain.

While we have limited our discussion primarily to the Ludi Maximus Gladitori,
I must say that others who have listed the names of those present and their pleasure at being with them , also has my total agreement. My thanks also
to the Excellent ProPraetor of the MediaAtlantica Provincia and his lovely,
witty and most enjoyable wife, for their hospitality to their lush green provincia!!

Of special mention must be the very lovely Tribune Diana Aventina who
crossed the storm tossed Mare Atlantica to be with us from her home in
Northern Gaul (Read Belgium). It was a special treat to meet you, enjoy
your enthusiasm and share some ideas. Thank you for gracing us with
your company!!!

Very Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Senator, ProConsul, Tribunus Militum Laticlavius, Architecturas,
dispatched to Legio XXIVth's Commander Gallio --Part Owner of the Ludi
Maximus Gladitori and spokesman to the Ludus for his Most Honored and
Excellent Emperor Domitianus.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patricia Cassia of Nova Roma, wrote:

Those of us who had a chance to meet at Roman Days very much enjoyed
the experience! I would especially like to thank our provincial governor,
Marinus, for his kindness in transporting Minervina Flavia Iucundia to the airport, and Merlinia Ambrosia Artori for organizing and putting on a marvelous feast. (You haven't lived till you've had ostrich balls!) Tertulla kindly hosted us
at her house, since the site was too damp for our usual outdoor meal.

The wet ground made things tricky for the gladiators, but a respectable
number of military re-enactors were able to march and participate in drills,
pilum-throwing and educating the public about their history and gear.
(Quintus, commander of Legio XX, got a big laugh at the feast when he
pulled out a wax tablet and stylus which he called his "PalmPilot.")

Diana Moravia Aventina's presence, delightful in and of itself, also
marked a Nova Roma first: I believe she is the first citizen to attend
face-to-face gatherings on two different continents. Thanks to Merlinia
for helping her get there! It was fun to see Quintus Fabius again, and
Palladius Merullus ... well, there were so many Nova Romans
that there wasn't enough time to spend with everyone!

Along with my thanks to Legio XX for hosting the event, I should
especially like to commend Margaret, the wife of Marcus Minucius
Audens, who transported him home Sunday night, traveling all night to
do so. Audens brings a magnificent presence to any event and Margaret
is the one who makes it possible.
Patricia Cassia
Senatrix et Sacerdos Minervalis
Nova Roma . pcassia@novaroma.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roman Days VI was a good time as always, even though the weather didn't
cooperate on Saturday. However, the time was well spent, with a lot of great conversation, a meeting of the Ludus Magnus Gladiators, and a fine Roman feast put on by Merlinia Ambrosia and Aselina!

Three legionaries from Legion XXX traveled down from Northern Frontier of Niagara Falls, Ontario and they looked well in their kit and tactics. We will be
with them again at Fort Malden in August.

Sunday morning, the weather was much better and the show went on for real. The Olympics went well, and a number of youngsters were taught the fine
art of Roman marching drill by Legion XX Optio Quintus Darius Macro
(Matt Amt). Steve Peffley gave a repeat performance of chopping a scutum
with his falx, though his shield was a little more strongly constructed this time
and seemed a little more resistant to the weapon. But we finished it off with
a pila volley and Greg Fabic's 4th century throwing axe. Oh, and Steve will
want me to mention the very special painted motif on his shield:
"Campbell's Chvnky Legionary in Entrail Soup, with Lorica Bits added for extra Iron". Oh, these barbarians...
A photo of the shield is on the site at www.legionxxiv.org/legionarysoup
Thanks again to Matt Amt and Legion XX for what is becoming the major
Roman themed event in the East.

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

MID-WEST VEXILLATION AT FORT MEIGS
The Commander sojourned west to Perrysburg Ohio, on June 14-15, to
inspect the Legion's Mid-West Vexillation, under command of Optio
Quintus Fabricius Varus (David Smith). The event was the "Muster on
the Maumee" staged at Fort Meigs, the largest reconstructed 1812 era
fort in the U.S. The Optio was accompanied by Marcus Marius Maximus
(Max Nelson), who is a classics history professor at the University of
Windsor, Ontario; and Gaius (Andrew Rodgers). Being a latin teacher,
Optio Quintus Fabricius demonstrated his command skills in directing
the unit through several field tactics and drills. On Saturday morning, the
unit was selected to take part in a real-time weather broadcast by a local
Toledo TV station. A pila range was set-up across the path from the unit
encampment and we practiced and demonstrated our pila tossing skills to
the many visitors who came to the event. The Commander was most
pleased with what he observed and found the Mid-West Vexillation to be
in Good Order under Optio Quintus.
This engagement came up rather quickly and there was not much time to
spread the word. The Fort was advised that there were Romans in the region and promptly issued an invitation to participate. The Fort told us on Sunday,
that they thought we were one of the top attractions during the "Muster".
This event is likely to be and should become an annual campaign for Legion XXIV and its Mid-West Vexillation. Those of you who are serving as Vexillation Units away from the main body of the Legion, should endeavor to promote Legion XXIV in your provincia and possibly you could represent the Legion or have it take part in an event near you.
Get out there!, and defend the interests of Ancient Rome.

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

Our Noble Senator, Audens has taken charge of Legion VI Victrix Pia Fidelis,
stationed near Albany NY, in the absence of its Commander, Kryn Minor,
who is serving in the Middle East. We wish Commander Kryn well as he
serves the interests of our Country; and thank Senator Audens for watching
over our sister Legion until its Commander returns.

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

The Pennsylvania Organization of Sixth-Scale Enthusiasts is hosting its
Action Figure Expo on August 16, in Bucks County, PA at Delaware Valley College. It will probably be from 10am to 5pm. Matt Black, the POSSE Boss,
thinks it would be nice to have some Roman Soldiers milling about (he is still looking for Revolutionary, Civil War and W.W.II re-enactors too!) He is offering
us an information/recruiting table and free admission for our outfitted legionaries. (The table is $100 value and admission is $7 value per soldier!) Some of us will be at Pennsic War that weekend.
Let me know if any of you are interested in attending this event.

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888

UPCOMING EVENTS

Univ. of Penna. Summer Camp Military and Gladiatorial Encampment.
Friday, July 18, 11AM to 2PM, 3230 South Street, Phila.
We are doing this for the kids, who were enthralled with Owen Hutchins
and Jeff Crean, who represented the Legion last year.
Consult www.mapquest.com using "3230 Spruce Street, Phila, PA 19104".
Enter at the "Kress" Entrance and advise you are for Meera and the
Summer Camp Program. We will be exhibiting in the Raimey Auditorium.

Time Line Event at Fort Malden, Amherstburg, Ontario, opposite Detroit.
August 2 & 3. This will be our fifth visit to this event and we expect to have
an eight man contubernium there with Members of Legion XXX and our own
Mid-West Vexillation and maybe Legion XII out of Quebec as well.

NovaRoma Market Days, Hollis Maine, Sept. 13 & 14. This event was
good last year and promises to be even better this year in a new and
larger venue.

Legion XXIV and our Ludus Magnus is becoming a major player in the
Roman and Gladiatorial reenactment community, as witnessed by the
increasing volume of these monthly "tomes", and your continued participation and support will keep up the momentum! Carry On !!

I manere in Viresium et Honorare
I remain in Strength and Honor

(take your pick)
Tuus in Sodalicio Romanae Republica
Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Republic

Tuus in Sodalicio Romanae Imperi
Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Empire

Gallio / George







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation
From:	"Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:54:53 -0000

While being a new Citizen here we have not had time to get to know
eachother but read your resignation with sadness and regret.
I wish you the best in resolving your personal issues and hope you
can one day return.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Meridia Aurelia"
<diana_h@s...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I come before you today to announce my resignation from Nova Roma.
> I do this for private reasons - none that I would like to discuss
in
> public. It has taken me a long time to arrive at this decision, and
> for this very reason I believe it is the right thing for me to do.
>
> It has been an education and an honor to be part of Nova Roma.
> Lucilla Meridia will follow me as head of Gens Meridia, if the
> Censores agree. So I will not part and leave behind me a leaderless
> gens.
> I have received much support and friendship during my time here in
> Nova Roma, especially from the members of my own province of
> Germania. Gaius Flavius Diocletianus has honored me with a trust I
> know I can never repay him for. You have my gratitude, Cai.
>
> To all of you - may the Gods always protect you and lead Nova Roma
to
> the greatness she aspires to.
>
> Valete,
> Diana Meridia Aurelia

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation
From:	"Diana Meridia Aurelia" <diana_h@surfeu.de>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:05:46 -0000

Salve Marce Ambrosi Belisari,

thank you for your kind words.
It is caring people like yourself who make Nova Roma more than just a
micronation - a place to be proud to be part of.

All the best to you.

Vale,
Diana Meridia Aurelia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius"
<mballetta@h...> wrote:
> While being a new Citizen here we have not had time to get to know
> eachother but read your resignation with sadness and regret.
> I wish you the best in resolving your personal issues and hope you
> can one day return.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Meridia Aurelia"
> <diana_h@s...> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > I come before you today to announce my resignation from Nova Roma.
> > I do this for private reasons - none that I would like to discuss
> in
> > public. It has taken me a long time to arrive at this decision,
and
> > for this very reason I believe it is the right thing for me to do.
> >
> > It has been an education and an honor to be part of Nova Roma.
> > Lucilla Meridia will follow me as head of Gens Meridia, if the
> > Censores agree. So I will not part and leave behind me a
leaderless
> > gens.
> > I have received much support and friendship during my time here
in
> > Nova Roma, especially from the members of my own province of
> > Germania. Gaius Flavius Diocletianus has honored me with a trust
I
> > know I can never repay him for. You have my gratitude, Cai.
> >
> > To all of you - may the Gods always protect you and lead Nova
Roma
> to
> > the greatness she aspires to.
> >
> > Valete,
> > Diana Meridia Aurelia

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	Heathen Renewal <heathenrenewal@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:58:03 -0700 (PDT)

> The symbol for the Sun (God) was the cross and
> Mithras was born on
> December 25th. He was worshipped, unlike many Pagan
> Gods outside
> under the open sky, in an underground temple called
> a Mithreum and
> making the sign of the cross with holy water was not
> uncommon.


Very interesting post and very true, and mirrors some
of the ideas I expressed in regards to the connections
to the Mithraic Tradition and Yuletide/Christmas:

"December 25th is not the birthdate of Jesus of
Nazareth; Jesus' birthdate is unknown, and nearly all
scholars East and West agree it was likely in the
spring, or possibly the Fall. December 25th is the
birthday ofMithras,the Pagan Solar God of Persian
origination, born on the day celebrated by the
ancients as the Winter Solstice. The Cult of Mithras
was so powerful within theRoman Legions at the time
the Church was solidifying its power over Rome that
the Church destroyed the Mithrasian temples, raised
Churches on their very foundations, and then
assimilated all the symbology in order to bring about
a gradual conversion.

It was in Mithrasian temples that the Priest was
first called "Father". It was there that theritual
called the "Last Supper" was first performed,
including the taking of bread and wine as the body and
blood of Mithras. It was in the Mithrasian temples
that a God was celebrated on Sun-day, in tribute to a
Solar God, as opposed to the Christian practice of
celebrating the Sabbath Day—the Seventh Day of
Genesis, when Yahweh rested. How or why the "seventh"
day celebration for Christians came to be held on the
first day of the week— the "day of the Conquering
Sun"----- remains a "mystery" to modern Christians.

To genuine scholars, however, ("Christian scholar" is
an oxymoron ) it is no mystery—the Church arrogated
the day of the "rebirth" of Mithras as the "birthdate
of Jesus" in 375 CE at the Council of
Antioch.Thereafter, all hymns about the birth of the
Sun were changed to hymns about the birth of the
"Son". The Jews know this, which is why they still
celebrate the Sabbath on the correct day, as do
Muslims, who believe in Jesus but only as a prophet
and not one born on the Winter Solstice....

To read more:

http://www.galacticapublishing.com/this_season.php

All Hail The Return of Sol Invictus!




=====
"Loud were they, lo, loud when they rode over the burial mound, I stood under the linden wood, under a light shield where the mighty women put forth their powers and sent their yelling spears."


http://www.galacticapublishing.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	"Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius" <mballetta@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:25:21 -0000

Yes and I did not see your name or I would properly greet you.
You have the literal facts I paraphrased.
This is just one instance of their copying, borrowing - Stealing?
>From those they now try to discredit, persecute and eliminate.
Excellent article and there are many Holydays bastardized in the same
way.
Heathen? Ha! The more educated know the answer to who is more
heathen and I am too kind to reciprocate in like manner - Pagans hold
true to their ideals and tollerences.
Love the oxymoron comment by the way.
Well met and have a happy Solstice this weekend!


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Heathen Renewal
<heathenrenewal@y...> wrote:
>
> > The symbol for the Sun (God) was the cross and
> > Mithras was born on
> > December 25th. He was worshipped, unlike many Pagan
> > Gods outside
> > under the open sky, in an underground temple called
> > a Mithreum and
> > making the sign of the cross with holy water was not
> > uncommon.
>
>
> Very interesting post and very true, and mirrors some
> of the ideas I expressed in regards to the connections
> to the Mithraic Tradition and Yuletide/Christmas:
>
> Snip for space

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:32:37 -0000

Salve Diana Meridia Aurelia,

I know I haven't met or talked to you on this list before but you can
be sure it is always a sorrowful day when one of our citizens and
sister or brother make the decision to leave us. If there is any many
of us can do to help your situation please don't hesitate to contact
us, even in private. Although you have made this hard decision after
much thought, please do not forget the the doors are open for your
eventual return. I'm sure if you contacted the censors privately
about your situation they may even call this ball one rather than
strike one. They're only human too.

Meanwhile I and I'm sure, many other Nova Romans wish you the best,
happiness, good fortune as well as God or your Gods speed. We
certainly hope we have not heard the last of you.


Best Wishes,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Meridia Aurelia"
<diana_h@s...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I come before you today to announce my resignation from Nova Roma.
> I do this for private reasons - none that I would like to discuss
in
> public. It has taken me a long time to arrive at this decision, and
> for this very reason I believe it is the right thing for me to do.
>
> It has been an education and an honor to be part of Nova Roma.
> Lucilla Meridia will follow me as head of Gens Meridia, if the
> Censores agree. So I will not part and leave behind me a leaderless
> gens.
> I have received much support and friendship during my time here in
> Nova Roma, especially from the members of my own province of
> Germania. Gaius Flavius Diocletianus has honored me with a trust I
> know I can never repay him for. You have my gratitude, Cai.
>
> To all of you - may the Gods always protect you and lead Nova Roma
to
> the greatness she aspires to.
>
> Valete,
> Diana Meridia Aurelia

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin Pronunciation Vigiles?
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:37:52 EDT

In a message dated 6/19/03 11:39:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
praefectus2324@yahoo.com writes:
> Vigiles might be the one I might use because from what I understand
> there was really no private security force as we
> know it today. There might have been some sort of force but,
> I imagine they were mostly thugs and criminals used to
> protect property from their comrades in crime.

Salvete

They were organized from free men and volunteers by Augustus in 6 CE (Seut
"Augustus")
They were to operate with the new City Cohortes (Urbanicani, the old militia)
organized in 13 BCE (Ibid) as the garrison of Rome. In an emergancy the
cohortes could take the field, one cohors took part in the defense of Italy in 69
AD and fought at 1st Cremona.
Both answered to the City Prefect, but while the Cohors had the lorica,
casica and scutum of the legionary, the Vigiles did not. They were assigned to the
14 districts of the city, each district had its own lodging for them. They
carried lanterns and short swords for night patrol, siphons, brooms and buckets
during the day. (No mention what happened if there was a fire started at
night.) in 24 CE Tiberius gave them citizenship, attainable after 6 years of
service.
They became part of the military in the 200s, and Equities put into the
command.

Private security for rich merchants and Senators, were provided by
Gladiators, often retired, or POWs. Germans were especially prized for this service.

Q. Fabius Maximus.


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Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Mithraism (converted from "Past Legal Occasions")
From:	"gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <ksterne@bellsouth.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:30:19 -0000

Salvete All,

Once again thanks to Marcus Ambrosius Belisarius for his interesting
post on Mithraism and its connections to the early Christian
church. Coincidentally, I ran across the following link today to a
site with more, for any who are interested:

http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Gazetteer/Pe
riods/Roman/Topics/Religion/Mithraism/David_Fingrut**.html#int

I trust the info is accurate.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	jan gram <janabc10@yahoo.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:08:41 -0700 (PDT)

Heathen Renewal <heathenrenewal@yahoo.com> wrote:
. How or why the "seventh"
day celebration for Christians came to be held on the
first day of the week— the "day of the Conquering
Sun"----- remains a "mystery" to modern Christians.



there is no mystery at all why Christians celebrated Sunday. Early Christians were all jews (til Paul who founded Christianity as we know it, more or less, and opened it to the gentiles), so they observed the Sabbath on Saturday and the next day, which happened to be Sunday, they met and celebrated Christ.





---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Fw: Fine Dell'Impero Romano
From:	"Sandruzzo" <assemblera@yahoo.it>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:14:53 +0200

----- Original Message -----
From: Sandruzzo
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:54 PM
Subject: Fine Dell'Impero Romano


Ave!

girando qua e la per la rete ho letto diversi documenti sulla fine(Sing) dell'Impero Romano,data circa (se non erroro) 476 d.c.le mie domande sono molteplici:

come mai non e' stato possibile fermare i barbari,sconfitti anni prima piu' di una volta?
non c'erano legioni fuori dall'italia da portare a Roma per tentare un contro assalto?
come mai l'impero non e' stato capace di prevedere la venuta dei barbari?
una volta caduta Roma(o nel mentre),il senato,l'iperatore,le legioni dove erano?

sara mattu cio' mi sembra molto strano...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	RE: [Nova-Roma] Photos from Roman Days
From:	"jlasalle" <jlasalle@sbcglobal.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:47:22 -0500

I know its sad but true...
i the paulini got beaten by a bellybutton

GB Agricola
From: Stephen Gallagher [mailto:spqr753@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:05 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Photos from Roman Days


Salve GB Agricola

Hay wait a minute..... you were to be the "Master of the Horse" when the
two Paulinus
became " Dictators for Life"


Vale
Tiberius
----- Original Message -----
From: jlasalle
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Photos from Roman Days



Diana gets my vote for "Dictator for life" based on the picture entitled
"six senators and a tribune", by virtue of her virtuous bellybutton.

GB Agricola


-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Moravia Aventina [mailto:diana@pandora.be]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:35 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Photos from Roman Days


Salvete,

I uploaded photos of our citizens who were present at Roman Days to
http://www.gensmoravia.org/RomanDays.html

Valete,
Diana Moravia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] A Evening with Romans ? A n outline
From:	Caius Minucius Scaevola <ben@callahans.org>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:27:13 -0400

On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 10:41:32AM -0400, Bill Gawne wrote:
> Quintus Fabius Maximus asked:
>
> > Who else here beside Fabius Metellus is an actor?
>
> If you include amateur gigs and community theatre, I've done a bit of that.
> I also teach, and that gives me ample opportunity to "strut my hour upon
> the stage" as well. If the idea is to do this somewhere in Maryland,
> I'm close by.

By those tokens (which I think are valid ones), I'd be qualified as well
(add in my days as an extra playing a Russian Fire Crew Chief in "The
Hunt for Red October" as more faint qualification material... :) Despite
a bunch of recent problems, I'm going to be up in MD at some point in
the next couple of months, so if something comes of this, I'd most
likely be up for it.


Caius Minucius Scaevola
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Illi robur et aes triplex circa pectus erat, qui fragilem truci commisit pelago
ratem primus.
As hard as oak and three times bronze was the heart of him who first committed a
fragile vessel to the keeping of wild waves.
-- Horace, "Carmina"

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] test
From:	"Gaius Galerius Peregrinator" <gaiusgalerius@hotmail.com>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:28:24 +0000

test

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Factio Veneta. Tomorrow the internal Ludi begins
From:	"Daniel O. Villanueva" <danielovi@ciudad.com.ar>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:42:19 -0300

Salvete omnes.
This is a friendly reminder that tomorrow the Ludi of the Veneta begins. Meet you at the Circus!!!
Bene valete
L. Pompeius Octavianus
Dominus Factionis Veneta


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Past Legal Occasions
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?R6VJVkxJVlOlU0NBVlJWUw==?= <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:50:22 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus M. Ambrosio Belisario salutem dicit.

Salve, M. Ambrosi.

> As to the water into wine miracle -
> Clarafication:
> Common people at weddings were not allowed to dring wine, only water.
> Jesus was trying to reform the strict rules of the times and one of
> his public displays was allowing everyone at the wedding in Cana to
> drink wine so metaphorically speaking - he turned the water into wine.
> All of the other miracles are very similar in nature with logical
> explanations.

There were no sumptuary laws in Herodian Galilee prohibiting the lower
social and economic classes from consuming wine at wedding feasts, nor
any evidence that wine was any less central to ritual occasions among
Jews of the early first century CE than suggested by the contemporary
Philo or slightly later Josephus or the somewhat later still
Palestinian or Babylonian Talmud. This explanation of the "miracle"
of the marriage feast at Cana (John 2:1-12) is what is sometimes
jocularly called "nunsense" -- a pious story which decontextualises by
a false historicism. When subjected to rigorous textual-critical
study the account in John is related to three topoi which are
characteristic of the Johannine author/editor and which are brought
together to make a theological and liturgical point. The first topos
is that of abundant wine as a symbol of the eschaton (the "coming of
the kingdom" -- which is also a constant preoccupation of the
Johannine text) in Old Testament and apocryphal texts with an
apocalyptic tint (Amos 9;13; Hosea 2:24; Joel 4:18; Isaiah 29:17;
Jeremiah 31:5; 1 Enoch 10:19 -- likewise, the "new wine" pericope in
Mark 2:22 and the pentecost account in Acts). The second is the
marriage feast as metaphor for messianic realisation (Isaiah 54:4-8
and 62:4-5). The third topos is the feeding-type "miracle" found in
several Old Testament accounts and the synoptic gospels as well as the
gospel of John. These topoi were weaved in the Johannine gospel into
an account which presents Jesus of Nazareth as the
realised-lord-messiah who embodies nourishment of the community of the
faithful. The text is a highly elaborated literary and liturgical
text aimed a propagandising for a very specific Christology, and even
if one grants that there is a more primitive Aramaic
sayings-and-stories source underlying both the snyoptic and Johannine
gospels, the "miracle of the wine at Cana" story isn't a report of an
historical event. It is an evocation of a symbol which serves to mark
the opening of Jesus' public ministry in the same way that the "Jesus
as the true vine" pericope (John 15:1-16:4) brings the public ministry
to an end in preparation for the passion narrative; this sort of
chiastic parallelism is central to the composition of the Johannine
gospel. This text is a very sophisticated work of literary propaganda
and the attempt to explain the "miracles" outside this complex fabric
of literary creation, in my view, concedes a kind of prima facie
historicity to such accounts which close textual-critical and
literary-critical analysis suggests is unfounded.

Vale.

G. Iulius Scaurus