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Senate Voting Results18 Quinctilis MMDCCLIVas published by tribune Titus Labienus Fortunatus Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD The Senate has finished its latest session, and the votes have been tallied. Once again, I ask each Senator who voted to make sure that I have correctly reported his or her vote and any comments he or she may have made. The following fourteen Senatores cast votes. They are referred to below by their initials. PC: Patricia Cassia MJC: Marcus Cassius Julianus LCSF: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix LEC: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus QFM: Quintus Fabius Maximus AGG: Antonius Gryllus Graecus AICPM: Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonius DIPI: Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus MII Marcus Iunius Iulianus TLF: Titus Labienus Fortunatus MMA Marcus Minucius Audens MOG: Marcus Octavius Germanicus LSAO: Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus (FVG) Flavius Vedius Germanicus The following four Senatores did not vote. Caius Flavius Diocletianus Minervina Iucundia Flavia Gaius Marius Merullus Gaius Tullius Triumphius Cicero The results of the vote follow, along with the individual votes cast by each Senator. For those unfamiliar with the Latin terms, "UTI ROGAS" means a vote in favor, "ANTIQUO" or "NEGAT" mean a vote against, and "ABSTINEO" is an abstention. __________________ ITEM I. INCLUSION OF ICELAND IN THULE PROVINCIA **PASSED 14 For, 0 Against PC: UTI ROGAS MJC: UTI ROGAS LCSF: UTI ROGAS LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: UTI ROGAS A logical inclusion. Rome would have done the same. AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: UTI ROGAS MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS Marcus Audens casts a YES vote for this item in support of the ProPraetor of the Provincia Thule. ProPraetor Quintillianus is a careful and precise administrator, and his recommendation in this case makes a great deal of sense. I applaud his bringing this item to the Senate's attention. MOG: UTI ROGAS LSAO: UTI ROGAS (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM II. DIPLOMATIC RECOGNITION OF THE KINGDOM OF NUMIDIA **DEFEATED 4 For, 10 Against PC: ANTIQUO I will not be voting for such recognition and alliances until we have concrete standards for determining their validity and value to Nova Roma. MJC: ANTIQUO Numidia, while enthusiastic, does not seem to be a viable sovereignty project. While I encourage friendly relations with all micronations, official association in this case does not seem favorable for us. LCSF: UTI ROGAS LEC: ANTIQUO QFM: UTI ROGAS I was the first Consul that Jubal IV contacted. I helped him with his military knowledge of the Numidians. Juba is learning more about Numidia, and he plans to use us (Nova Roma) as a model to set up his kingdom. Even if he never grows past the planning stage, still we should encourage such projects, since they add to the general knowledge of the Mediterranean Basin during the period of Rome. AGG: ANTIQUO AICPM: ANTIQUO DIPI: ANTIQUO Numidia does not meet the required level of a serious sovereignty project for us to open relations with them now. MII ANTIQUO TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA ANTIQUO Marcus Audens casts a NO vote for this item because in reviewing the material available, it does not appear to me that there would be any mutual advantage to such a recognition at this time. I make mention of the possible extention of an effort to make contact on a Sodalitas Level in order to better have an idea about the citizens of Numidia. To that end, I would offer services of the Sodalitas Militarium as a beginning to share our cultural and military histories and a Mutual sharing of ideals and future goals for both our micronations. MOG: UTI ROGAS LSAO: NEGAT I am of two minds on this. Numidia is similar, in some ways, to what we began with, but it does not yet have the breadth and depth of what Nova Roma has become. I think this step should be reconsidered if and when Numidia has developed into a larger and more active entity. (FVG) ANTIQUO ITEM III. OFFICIAL CHARTERING OF THE SODALITAS MUNERUM **PASSED 14 For, 0 Against PC: UTI ROGAS I am sure the organizing parties, being responsible Citizens, will do what needs to be done to protect the safety of participants and the liability of Nova Roma. LCSF: UTI ROGAS MJC: UTI ROGAS I believe this Sodalitas will be a great benefit to Nova Roma, particularly in drawing interest from the public at gatherings and events. LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: UTI ROGAS Gladiators and Muneas seem to be the one thing that common public finds fascinating about Rome. We would be amiss to not take advantage of this avenue for publicity. I myself have just finished a 14,000 word article on the Gladiator's history in Rome, so it is a subject near and dear to my heart. AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: UTI ROGAS MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS MOG: UTI ROGAS LSAO: UTI ROGAS (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM IV. APPOINTMENT OF GOVERNOR FOR PROVINCIA HISPANIA **PASSED 14 For, 0 Against PC: UTI ROGAS MJC: UTI ROGAS I believe M. Salix Vigilius will do the job well and be a credit to the Provincia. LCSF: UTI ROGAS LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: UTI ROGAS M. Salix Vigilius has shown interest in Nova Roma since the day he joined. If he maintains this level of interest he will do the job, and keep the peace in Hispania. My spiritual ancestor agrees. AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: UTI ROGAS MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS MOG: UTI ROGAS LSAO: UTI ROGAS (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM V. APPOINTMENT OF GOVERNOR FOR AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS **PASSED 14 For, 0 Against PC: UTI ROGAS MJC: UTI ROGAS I am sure that Drusus will do an excellent job. I have been impressed by his ideas on a number of occasions, and it is obvious he has both the skill and energy to work on behalf of the Provincia. LCSF: UTI ROGAS LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: UTI ROGAS Though I'm sorrowful of Iuncundia stepping down, Lucius Sinicus Drusus is the person to succeeded her. He understands Roman history, he has ideas we have not considered yet, his location more central to the province and most of all he has personal finances that will help organize the province. Minervia Iuncundia lacked that resource. AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: UTI ROGAS MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS MOG: UTI ROGAS! L. Sicinus is a capable and intelligent citizen, and he deserves this position. LSAO: UTI ROGAS (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM VI. ALLOCATION OF DISCRETIONARY FUNDS **PASSED 12 For, 2 Against PC: UTI ROGAS Assuming these funds are approved, I hope to get them, together with other contributions from Citizens, to the Vindolanda Trust by Aug. 1. Those who wish to add to this amount may do so by visiting http: //www.novaroma.org/aerarium_saturni/vindolanda/ as soon as possible. LCSF: ANTIQUO MJC: UTI ROGAS I also agree that it is important that Nova Roma get positive public exposure from this charity fund - somthing we must keep an eye toward with all such involvements. We should not spend public money without it also having a benefit to Nova Roma. Happily I believe this will happen in this case... there will be information on our website, and also mention of the project elsewhere. LEC: UTI ROGAS Should we be given assurance that Nova Roma will be given credit for it's financial and advertisement contributions, I support this Allocation of Funds. Otherwise send only those monies that were contributed voluntarily. QFM: ANTIQUO While what befall Vindolanda was unfortunate, the use of Nova Roma monies with no clear benefit to Nova Roma should be voted against. If we were presenting a check for 10k with the media looking on, that would be something. This is not. Two hundred American will keep them operating for 8 hours. I do not believe a single member of the dig are citizens. This is just an attempt to sell the dues idea to the citizens so when they ask: "What is Nova Roma doing with our money?" we can show them this one donation. Understand Conscript Fathers, I am not against the principle of giving money to sites to further the study of Rome. After all this is one of the reasons NR was founded. But until we have dues in place and the collections are actually happening, we should not be spending Nova Roma's meager resources. AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: UTI ROGAS While it is a large expenditure out of our current treasury, it is a worthwhile both because of what the money will be used for and for the attention it will bring to Nova Roma. MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS Marcus Audens casts a YES vote for this item, as it falls entirely in line with one of the major reasons that Nova Roma was formed. I have been privileged to visit Vindolanda, and was most impressed with what I saw there and with what was planned for that site. I have visited every museum, and major archaelogical site along Hadrian's Wall, and have walked on the wall and alongside it for long stretches to get a feel for the structure. My personal feeling is that there could not be a better place to donate our hard-won funds than to Vindolanda at this time. MOG: UTI ROGAS This is exactly the sort of thing we should be doing, to enhance our reputation in the community. LSAO: UTI ROGAS (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM VII. SENATUS CONSULTUM ON DEFINING A QUORUM **PASSED 14 For, 0 Against PC: UTI ROGAS MJC: UTI ROGAS LCSF: UTI ROGAS LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: UTI ROGAS This was discussed last year. I'm glad to see it completed. AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: UTI ROGAS MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS MOG: UTI ROGAS LSAO: UTI ROGAS (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM VIII. TAXATION **PASSED 10 For, 4 Against PC: UTI ROGAS As this will require changes to our accounting procedures, I encourage the Consuls to appoint a committee immediately on passage of this item to do the work of making this system operate smoothly. MJC: UTI ROGAS! I will be thrilled to see Nova Roma gain some dependable real world resources at last. LCSF: ANTIQUO LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: ANTIQUO Yes, Quintus Fabius Maximus the largest single proponent of taxes in Nova Roma is voting against this item. Why? Because Conscript Fathers, it needs to be reworded and certain provisions added. Right now, the first time we have a problem, we will have to revisit this. And rewrite it. Why not take care of it correctly the first time? AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: ANTIQUO This is the toughest item to vote on. While the idea of taxation is a good one and a necessary one, the specifc proposal is deeply flawed. There are real economic differences between the various countries and this ignores those differences. While $12 is little to Americans or most Western Europeans (though many Western Europeans might disagree considering how little their governments leave them after stealing most of their money through excessive taxation) it is a lot to people in poorer nations, especially Eastern Europe. In relative terms of the impact it will have on those people it is somewhat equivalent to the tax being several hundred dollars to Americans, an amount that few Americans even in the senate would be willing to pay. An alternate, workable suggestion made by some people was to start with a lower amount, about half this number. Far more people would pay that lower tax and thus the overall amount rasied would be greater. I think that the estimate I have seen that a third of our current populace will be willing to pay this tax is optimistic and think we will be lucky to get 20-25% of the populace to pay the tax. Despite all this, I am tempted to vote for the item--because we desperately need a tax system--and then hope for a more equitable solution later but fear that would not happen, so I must vote no. MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS Though I would have preferred to include some sort of mechanism that recognized the vast discrepancies between the economies of some of our provinciae (or rather the macronations that contain/are contained within them), the measure is otherwise a good one. MMA UTI ROGAS Marcus Audens casts a YES vote for this item because the basic proposal is a good one. However, I agree with my colleagues who have sounded a warning that some provision should be made in this taxation package for the inequality between various nation's economies. As has been said before, that point has been discussed at length with good arguments on both sides, and is one of the most difficult aspects of this item to reach concurrence upon. MOG: NEGAT! LSAO: UTI ROGAS I would have preferred to start at a lower rate such as US$6 per annum, but better US$12 per annum than to go on debating it without doing it! (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM IX. DISPOSITION OF TAXES TO PROVINCIA **PASSED 10 For, 3 Against MJC: UTI ROGAS However, it is my hope that we will need a minimum of people to collect taxes, and that most payments will be done directly online. That will eliminate a great deal of time, effort and paperwork. LCSF: ANTIQUO LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: UTI ROGAS No matter what happens with the tax leges the information will have to be kept. I would have prefered the Ides of Martius. Ides are Aprlus have a great many things happening in the days between the Kal. & Ides AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: ANTIQUO This puts too much of a strict limit on where funds are to be directed. I am all in favor of money being directed to the provinces but don't think we should be limited as to what percentage that should be. The amount sent to a province should be based on the specific needs of a province at that time. MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS MOG: UTI ROGAS LSAO: NEGAT I would prefer to consider this more before finalizing it. Will collecting money from the provinces and then sending part of it back when needed there cost us extra charges for transfers? Are we saying that we will not trust our provincial officials because of a revolt that occurred in one province? This proposal does not "feel right" to me. It needs more consideration. (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM X. CREATION OF PROVINCIA MOESIA-DACIA **DEFEATED 3 For, 11 Against PC: UTI ROGAS MJC: ANTIQUO for the present. I personally have not seen enough evidence of a need for this, or enough commonality among the modern nations proposed. If more information is brought forth at a later date I would be happy to consider it again. LCSF: ANTIQUO LEC: ANTIQUO QFM: ANTIQUO Since many of the modern nations contained in this proposed province detest one another this would be a big mistake. Unlike the Roman period these varius Tribus have now their own identities, and lumping them all together will not work. AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: ANTIQUO DIPI: ANTIQUO This does not take into account the modern sensibilities of people living in those provinces. MII UTI ROGAS TLF: ANTIQUO Considering the historic animosity between the region's various ethnic groups, I am hesitant to lump these cives together in one provincia without knowing their opinions on the matter. MMA ANTIQUO Marcus Audens casts a NO vote for this item based on the lack of detailed information regarding such a specific area, nationality, language and other cultural differences. MOG: NEGAT Too many countries and languages in one province. LSAO: NEGAT To lump potential citizens of multiple Balkan nations together into one province at this point seems unwise. The conflicts between states in that area are legendary and ongoing. I would like to see citizens in these areas working together and asking to become a province before we vote such into existence. (FVG) ANTIQUO ITEM XI. CREATION OF PROVINCIA VENEDIA *I. The province of Venedia is hereby created, consisting of the modern nation of Poland. **PASSED 14 For, 0 Against PC: UTI ROGAS MJC: UTI ROGAS LCSF: UTI ROGAS LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: UTI ROGAS AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: UTI ROGAS MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS MOG: UTI ROGAS LSAO: UTI ROGAS (FVG) UTI ROGAS *II. The province of Venedia is hereby created, consisting of the modern nations of Poland and the Czech Republic. **DEFEATED 0 For, 14 Against PC: ANTIQUO MJC: ANTIQUO LCSF: ANTIQUO LEC: ANTIQUO QFM: ANTIQUO Again, Since the modern nations contained in this proposed province detest one another this would not be a good idea. AGG: ANTIQUO AICPM: ANTIQUO DIPI: ANTIQUO MII ANTIQUO TLF: ANTIQUO MMA ANTIQUO Marcus Audens casts a NO vote for this item based upon the lack of detailed information regarding such a specific area, nationality, language and other cultural differences. MOG: NEGAT LSAO: NEGAT I have not seen any requests from residents of the Czech Republic asking to be included in a province with Polish cives. (FVG) ANTIQUO ITEM XII. OFFICIAL SPONSORSHIP OF LEGIO SECUNDA AUGUSTA **PASSED 14 For, 0 Against PC: UTI ROGAS They sound like a delightful group. May they grow and prosper! MJC: UTI ROGAS I'm pleased to see this new legion forming! LCSF: UTI ROGAS LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: UTI ROGAS The Second can trace it's roots back to Iulius Caesar's consular army's lego. Good to see this lego finally honored. AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: UTI ROGAS MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS MOG: UTI ROGAS LSAO: UTI ROGAS Ave Kiwis!!! (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM XIII: EXPANSION OF SCOPE OF SODALITAS MILITARIUM **PASSED 13 For, 0 Against PC: UTI ROGAS MJC: UTI ROGAS The Sodalitas Militarium has been an absolute gem of a program, and a great benefit to Nova Roma. The Citizens involved have proven themselves to be knowledgable, and active, and I will be pleased to see their function expanded. (Proof to the rumor that the reward for good work is *more* work...) LCSF: UTI ROGAS LEC: UTI ROGAS QFM: UTI ROGAS One of our few well functioning Sodalitas. I'm sure Marcus Minucius' leadership has something to do with this. AGG: UTI ROGAS AICPM: UTI ROGAS DIPI: UTI ROGAS MII UTI ROGAS TLF: UTI ROGAS MMA UTI ROGAS MOG: UTI ROGAS (FVG) UTI ROGAS ITEM XIV: OFFICIAL CHARTERING OF THE SODALITAS IUDEICA **DEFEATED 1 For, 10 Against, 3 Abstentions PC: ANTIQUO While I entirely support the study of the Jewish religion and Judaic history during the Roman era, this proposal is too broad, and as some have remarked, seems more appropriate to organizing a Provincia than a study group. I encourage Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix to consider whether it can be more accurately focused on the Roman era and on study and learning, and to resubmit this proposal after appropriate alterations. LCSF: UTI ROGAS MJC: ANTIQUO I believe this proposal should be better defined so that it has a Roman focus. As Nova Roma is about "things Roman", we should keep Provincial studies "on topic" whenever possible. LEC: ANTIQUO QFM: ANTIQUO The college had reservations about this club. And until these are resolved, I suggest we table this item for a later date AGG: ABSTINEO AICPM: ANTIQUO DIPI: ABSTINEO I must defer to the wishes of the Pontifex Maximus on this issue and believe the differences regarding this propsal should be worked out in a different venue. MII ANTIQUO TLF: ANTIQUO MMA ANTIQUO Marcus Audens casts a NO vote for this item solely in support of the wishes of the Collegium Pontificum as related to the Nova Roma Senate by the Pontifex Maximus Cassius Julianus. MOG: NEGAT LSAO: ABSTINEO In deference to the concerns and authority of the College of Pontiffs and of the Pontifex Maximus. (FVG) ANTIQUO In accordance with the wishes of the Collegium Pontificum, as related by our Pontifex Maximus, I vote antiquo (no) to item XIV, "Official Chartering of the Sodalitas Iudeica", to allow time for the proposal to be reviewed and resubmitted. _________________ Valete a d XV Sex MMDCCLIV tlf |