Talk:Core narrative

Latest revision as of 05:10, 25 January 2008

Title

I think 'mythology' might be a more user-friendly title than 'core narrative'. It's more likely to be the sort of thing people type into the search box, and when people see it they're more likely to understand immediately what it is. The fact that some of the stories may be partly or wholly true should, I suggest, not deter us from calling them myths, since that point is already dealt with in the text of the article. Also the use of 'narrative' in the singular implies an internally consistent story, whereas some Roman traditional stories are mutually contradictory (especially where several different stories exist to explain the origin of the same thing, or where essentially the same story is told about several different characters). - Cordus 14:45, 4 September 2007 (CEST)

I puzzled over the title long and hard. I'm using a technical term, from which we should not shy, but to which I am not wedded. The singular is a wiki thing, though, (for ease of linking) and should not imply exclusion of "core narratives". "Myths" is a loaded term for some, having had in part rather pejorative meaning in the past. (Implication: "stories not true".) Also, there are many things that one might wish to put under "mythology", (as some would put all of the cultus deorum, perhaps). This article should be restricted to narratives that tend to define who Romans were: tales that were well known then and held up as exemplars. True, they differ in detail, but that simply helps us triangulate in on the main points. Horatius at the bridge may have drowned or not, depending on whom one reads. He always defended the bridge, though. The variation lets us focus on the common elements and argue that those are the important ones, by consensus, so to speak, of the ancients. So what would be included might be subject to debate. I hope so, actually.

But you are right to think about the search box issue. Redirects are possible, of course. I think I would oppose "Stories that inspired many generations of Romans", not because it fails to be descriptive, but because it is not likely to be a useful link. <G> Agricola 04:53, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

Hmm, I see. Yes, 'mythology' could make the scope too broad. Your seven-word suggestion is, I agree, a bit long, but from a search-box point of view it would be good to find a title which includes the word "stories" (or would it have to be "story"?). I'm thinking of some phrase such as "didactic stories", "hortative stories", or "edifying stories", but those are not very clear. Maybe "exemplary stories"?

- Cordus 16:16, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

We have a Legends of Rome page, ported over from the old site; it covers the same material and offers the same explanation as to why another term might be preferable to "myth". Would "legends" work? (Would the Legends page work?)

Yikes! And it was me who carried it over, so long ago. They need to be merged. Back in the day, we had no idea of the cat structure, so it was just left hanging there. Good find! Agricola 04:37, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

OK I think I did an OK merge. Can we mark the older page for deletion? It has no history and no talk. Agricola 04:46, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Merge looks good. Sit tight; when I get back I may help you with some of the stories. >({|:-) -- Marius Peregrinus 06:51, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Also, my Titus Livius piece isn't really an article so much as an essay. It, too, describes the unifying influence of such stories and the insight they give us into the Roman mind and ideal. -- Marius Peregrinus 19:01, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

I can see that becoming one section of a complete treatment of Livy. Agricola 04:37, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

About these narratives

This is what I think the narrative articles should cover (not inclusive):

• Tell the narrative
• Discuss the sources and variants
• Discuss interpretations through time
• Impact in art and literature
  • Cite instances in Roman art
  • Cite instances in later art/lit.

What else should we include? Agricola 01:38, 7 September 2007 (CEST)

Would 'interpretations through time' include the use and abuse of the stories by various Romans to support different sides in political / cultural / ideological conflicts?

- Cordus 19:06, 10 September 2007 (CEST)

I don't see why not. Agricola 07:37, 20 November 2007 (CET)

I've been thinking long and hard about this since it was posted. I wonder if, with this as with all the "red links" (pages created but not actually written), we are making more work for ourselves than we can reasonably expect to deliver? Specific to this project, I'd like to help you with the stories...but I honestly can't provide more than the narrative and possibly sources/variants. If I had to do the rest I'd throw up my hands and say I don't have enough years left to live! My thought was just to get the tales up there, told as much to entertain as to enlighten. I'm afraid I'd have to leave it to others to analyse them. -- Marius Peregrinus 21:19, 10 September 2007 (CEST)

Many hands make light work. Can we recruit some of the "Muses" members to work on these? Agricola 07:37, 20 November 2007 (CET)

Title s'more

(Starting a new section to make it easier for WikiListers and others to jump in...)

OK, so far we've got:

• Myth(s)/Mythology
• Core narrative
• Legends/Legends of Rome
• [Something] stories (didactic, hortative, edifying, and exemplary have been offered so far)
• "Stories that inspired many generations of Romans" (included for completeness' sake)

Besides these, I can add:

• Oral tradition (these are the stories a young Roman would learn on his tutor's knee)
• Hero tales

Anyone else...? -- Marius Peregrinus 06:09, 25 January 2008 (CET) >({|:-)