Senate Report MMDCCLXII November/December (Nova Roma)

C. Petronius Dexter Tribunus Plebis omnibus civibus Novae Romae SPD

REPORT OF SENATE SESSION

Here is the Tribunician report of the last Senate session of November/December M. Curiatio M. Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXII a.u.c. . This report is late because the former Tribunes could not report the session itself and the voting results at the same time as the election for Tribunes of the Plebs. It is my first experience reporting a Senate session and a session in which I did not sit in on. So, I collected the votes and the comments of the voters from the Senate list.

So, people of Nova Roma, I inform you by this report of the last Senate session and its votes. Good reading.

The Senate contio began at the second hour (08.30 hrs. CET) on Saturday, 28 November M. Curiatio M. Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXII a.u.c., with discussions and continued until approximately the end of the day (16.00 hrs CET) on Tuesday, December 1st, M. Curiatio M. Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXII a.u.c.. Voting began in the first hour at 07.30 hrs CET on Wednesday, December 2nd, M. Curiatio M. Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXII a.u.c. and concluded at 16.00 hrs CET on Thursday December 3rd, M. Curiatio M. Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXII a.u.c. .

The following (XXIV) Senators cast votes and are referred to below by their initials:

Consules:
[MIS] M. Iulius Severus
[MCC] M. Curatius Complutensis

Princeps Senatus:
[KFBQ] K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Censorii:
[CnEM] Cn. Equitius Marinus
[DIPI] D. Iunius Palladius Invictus
[CFD] C. Flavius Diocletianus
[KFBM] K. Fabius Buteo Modianus

Consulares:
[MMPH] M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
[TiGP] Ti. Galerius Paulinus
[QFM] Q. Fabius Maximus
[TIS] T. Iulius Sabinus

Praetorii:
[MAM] M. Arminius Maior
[CEC] C. Equitius Cato
[ATS] A. Tullia Scholastica

Aedilicii:
[PMA] P. Memmius Albucius
[MHM] M. Hortensia Maior
[EmCF] Em. Curia Finnica
[CCS] C. Curius Saturninus

Tribunicii:
[QSP] Q. Suetonius Paulinus
[FGA] Fl. Galerius Aurelianus
[CVP] C. Vipsanius Agrippa

Quaestorii:
[CnIC] Cn. Iulius Caesar
[PVSV] P. Ullerius Stephanus Venator
[EqIL] Equestria Iunia Laeca

The following Senator and the ex-Consul both voted by proxy:
[MLA] M. Lucretius Agricola
[MMA] M. Minucius Audens*

• Ex-consul can vote according to the lex Popillia Senatoria.
  

The following Senatores (V) did not vote:
[CMM] C. Marius Merullus
[LCSF] L. Cornelius Sulla Felix
[FrAC] Fr. Apulus Caesar
[MIP] M. Iulius Perusianus
[ArnMA] Arn. Moravia Aurelia

NB: I did not find in the Nova Roman Senate votes an Album Senatorum with all the names of the Senators registered (as meant by "Patres Conscripti"). Perhaps I was mistaken in giving you the above list of Senators taken from NRWiki. Actually, the call for Senate voting is very precise in its agenda; for example, at what time the sun rises in Rome, but it is sadly silent on the names and number of voters registered. I also made a comparison with the names of the Senators given in the July report, in which I found the same Senators except for A. Tullius Marcellus Cato who had recently resigned. In July, we had 32 senators; today, we have 30 senators (on NRWiki), but 31 voters (counting the vote by proxy of M. Minucius Audens). So, 2/3 of 30 senators is 20, not 22 as I read on the Senate Yahoogroup in the Consular report.

"VTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item,
"ANTIQVO" is a vote against,
"ABSTINEO" is an open abstention.

And now....

RELATIO:

Quod bonum felixque sit populo Novo Romano Quiritibus, referimus ad vos, Patres et Matres conscriptos:

Item I.
Senatus Consultum Ultimum on the Tribunes of the Plebs.
The Senate resolves that the Consuls may suspend the Constitutional requirement for all magistrates to take office on 1 January 2010 in order for the Tribunes of the Plebs to take office on 10 December 2009 in accordance with ancient practice.

This Senatus Consultum Ultimum shall expire on 2 January 2010.

The Senate strongly encourages next year's Consuls to promulgate a Constitutional amendment stipulating that the various magistrates take office on the days established by historical practice.
Item I PASSED.
VTI ROGAS : XXI.
ANTIQVO : 0
ABSTINEO : IV

Consules.
[MIS]: VTI ROGAS.
[MCC]:VTI ROGAS.

Princeps Senatus.
[KFBQ]: VTI ROGAS. I certainly support this unusual measure in this case.
Censorii.
[CnEM]: VTI ROGAS
[DIPI]: ABSTINEO.
[CFD]: ABSTINEO.
[KFBM]: VTI ROGAS... I don't think this is necessary and believe that those senatores who have been calling for it are simply interested in causing trouble. If this will silence them then so be it.
Consulares.
[MMPH]: ASSENTIOR VTI ROGAS. It has always been the intention of the Senate to move Nova Roma closer to the traditions of the Res Publica of Roma antiqua. This is an evolving process. While a Tribunus Plebis I originated the lex that had our Tribuni Plebis enter office on 10 December as was done in the latter part of the Old Republic, not only for historical reasons but also to deal with a problem that had occurred the year prior. The measure still serves both purposes and thus I support this senatus consultum and the proposal to amend the Constitution.
[TiGP]: VTI ROGAS. We all need to a better job of reading proposed laws before we discover they are flawed after they have been enacted.
[QFM]:VTI ROGAS.
[TIS]: VTI ROGAS.

Praetorii.
[MAM]: VTI ROGAS.
[CEC]: Did not cast his vote on its item.
[ATS]: ASSENTIOR VTI ROGAS.

Aedilicii.
[PMA]: VTI ROGAS.
Sen. Paulinus has well underlined during his electoral campaign the need that the practice we adopted a few years ago be more respectful of the text of our constitution. I thank both consuls for having dealt with this matter quick, so that our elected tribunes may enter in office inside a correct legal frame. As consul electus, I intend, with my colleague, to submit our institutions the question on the matter (are the tribunes Plebis to enter in office on Dec. 10 or on Jan. 1?) and a relevant text during our 2763 auc term.
[MHM]: VTI ROGAS.
[EmCF]: VTI ROGAS.
[CCS]: VTI ROGAS.

Tribunicii.
[QSP]: VTI ROGAS.
[FGA]: VTI ROGAS.
[CVP]: VTI ROGAS.

Quaestorii:
[CnIC]: ABSTINEO.
[PVSV]: Ita = VTI ROGAS.
[EqIL]: VTI ROGAS.

Proxy.
[MLA]: VTI ROGAS.
[MMA]: Abstain = ABSTINEO.

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Quod bonum felixque sit populo Novo Romano Quiritibus, referimus ad vos, Patres et Matres conscriptos:

Item II.
Approval of the Lex Curiatia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis passed by the Comitia Centuriata.

By this Lex Curiatia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis the Constitution, Article VI, on Public Religious Institutions, is hereby replaced by the following Article VI.

a.- The Religio Romana, defined as the traditional worship of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the official religion of Nova Roma.
b.- The sacerdotal responsibilities for the State Religion of Nova Roma shall be invested primarily into the Collegium Pontificum and the Collegium Augurum.
1. The Collegium Pontificum shall consist of the Rex and Regina Sacrorum, the Flamens, Flaminicas, Pontifices, and the Sacerdotes Vestales, co-opted by the Collegium Pontificum itself, under its own governing rules... The Collegium Pontificum shall be responsible for the conduct and administration of all public religious ceremonies other than those rites assigned to the Augurs. To that purpose, the Collegium Pontificum may create sacerdotal offices, sodalitates, and collegia.
2. The Collegium Augurum shall consist of all public Augurs who are co-opted by the Collegium Augurum itself, under its own governing rules. The individual members of the Collegium Augurium shall be responsible for instructing and advising curule magistrates on performing auspicia on behalf of Nova Roma. In other religious ceremonies the Augures shall perform their traditional responsibilities. The Collegium Augurum may create sacerdotal offices and sodalitates that are specifically related to the conduct and administration of its responsibilities.
C. Additional sacerdotal collegia may be instituted and their rules set by the Collegium Pontificum, with the approval of the Comitia Centuriata.

Item II FAILED.
VTI ROGAS: XVI.
ANTIQVO: VIII.
ABSTINEO : II.

Consules.
[MIS]: VTI ROGAS.
[MCC]:VTI ROGAS.

Princeps Senatus.
[KFBQ]: VTI ROGAS. This change is well needed by the Religio.
Censorii.
[CnEM]: VTI ROGAS.
[DIPI]: ANTIQVO. I abstained on this item last time but vote no this time since it has already been rejected. I have no strong feelings against it but am voting against this procedurally. It failed to meet muster in the Senate, the process should begin again.

[CFD]: ANTIQVO.
[KFBM]: VTI ROGAS.

Consulares.
[MMPH]: ASSENTIOR VTI ROGAS. For the same reasons as I stated above, while Consul I first proposed this measure to meet both historical example and to deal with issues in our own Res Publica Libera today. I fully support the amendment to the Constitution that enables our Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum to move forward.
[TiGP]: ANTIQVO. As has already been pointed out you only get one bite at the apple. If this had passed the first time would anybody think it was ok to being it back for a vote, time and time again, until it had a majority to defeat it? This passed the Comitia Centuriata but was defeated in the Senate. It needs to be reenacted by the Comitia Centuriata and then presented to the Senate again.
[QFM]: ANTIQVO. It failed once. The Assembly must reissue the request.
[TIS]: VTI ROGAS.

Praetorii.
[MAM]: VTI ROGAS.
[CEC]: ANTIQVO. Badly-written and already defeated. Let the People vote on a law with this proposal's benefits but without its serious flaws.
[ATS]: ASSENTIOR VTI ROGAS.

Aedilicii.

[PMA]: VTI ROGAS. This adopted law is an improvement of the organization our religious institutions.
[MHM]: VTI ROGAS. This is the will of the people! those senators who frustrate the Quirites' will; the CP and College of Augurs attempt to be more flexible to advance the cultus deorum, are simply against the Pax Deorum & should change their votes!
[EmCF]: VTI ROGAS.
[CCS]: VTI ROGAS.

Tribunicii: [QSP]: Abstain = ABSTINEO.
[FGA]: VTI ROGAS.
[CVP]: ANTIQVO.

Quaestorii.
[CnIC]: ANTIQVO. This was already voted down by the Senate, and that vote meant the matter should have died. The only legal way to resurrect this proposal (that is all it is now having originally been rejected by the Senate) in my opinion is to start the whole legislative process again and put the matter once more to the people, and then if it passes return it to the Senate.
[PVSV]: Negatio = ANTIQVO.
[EqIL]: VTI ROGAS.

Proxy:
[MLA]: VTI ROGAS.
[MMA]: Abstain = ABSTINEO.

While there are 16 votes "Yes", 8 votes "No"and 2 abstained, according to the Constitution the majority required is 2/3 of the senators, id est were expected 20 votes "Yes" at least in order to modify the Article VI of the Constitution. With 16 "Vti Rogas" it is not enough, so Item II failed.

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Quod bonum felixque sit populo Novo Romano Quiritibus, referimus ad vos, Patres et Matres conscriptos:

Item III.
Approval of the Sodalitas proDIIS - A temple for the Gods in Rome.

The Senate of Nova Roma decides hereby to make the Sodalitas proDIIS - A temple for the Gods in Rome an officially promoted project and sodalitas of Nova Roma. The project is open for the ideas, and the support, of all citizens of Nova Roma and for everyone willing to support this project for the Glory of our Roman Gods. A detailed business plan for this Sodalitas was sent by the Consuls to the Senate mail list files.

Item III PASSED.
VTI ROGAS: XXIV.
ANTIQVO: II.
ABSTINEO: 0

Consules.
[MIS]: VTI ROGAS.
[MCC]:VTI ROGAS.

Princeps Senatus.
[KFBQ]: VTI ROGAS. With the same provisions noted by Senator Albucius for concurrence on the part of the Collegium Pontificum.

Censorii.
[CnEM]: VTI ROGAS. With the same provisions noted by Senator Albucius for concurrence on the part of the Collegium Pontificum.
[DIPI]: VTI ROGAS. With all my heart do I approve this worthy project.
[CFD]: VTI ROGAS.
[KFBM]: VTI ROGAS. As I have mentioned before this really should be approved by the Collegium Pontificum; however, since I would vote in favor of it within the CP I will show my support here. I have been supportive of this cause since it's inception and support it still.

Consulares.
[MMPH]: ASSENTIOR VTI ROGAS.
I have supported this project since its inception. The intended project is larger than any sodalitas may handle on its own. Indeed it may require Nova Roma to work with other organizations to achieve its goal, which shall benefit all practitioners of the religio Romana. And in that I am glad that Nova Roma will provide the initiative needed to restore a place for the Di Romani in Roma where all cultores Deorum Populi Romani shall be welcomed. Initium est dimidium facti...
[TiGP]: ANTIQVO. I have already stated that I support this project but once again it should not be on the agenda. This should be rewritten as a sense of the Senate resolution stating that the Senate supports the project but leaves the approval of the Sodalitas to the Collegium. This is what the law requires.
[QFM]: VTI ROGAS.
[TIS]: VTI ROGAS.

Praetorii.
[MAM]: VTI ROGAS.
[CEC]: ANTIQVO. It should be going to the College of Pontiffs for approval, according to the law. I am surprised that those who continually call upon faithfulness to the law *and* recognition of the prerogatives of the pontiffs are suddenly lining up to violate both.
[ATS]: Not without some reservations concerning the propriety of the Senate dealing with religious matters rather than the CP, but ASSENTIOR VTI ROGAS.

Aedilicii.
[PMA]:VTI ROGAS. With the formal condition of the second paragraph below. Censor Modianus has been right reminding us the text of lex Cassia de creatione sodalitatum. As consul electus, I intend to propose reviewing this field. The notion of a sodalitas being "a part of Nova Roma" is not clear and may drive us to oppose what could be the right of every Roman, to create a sodalitas and a collegium inside our Republic. We might, at the same time and in close collaboration with the religious colleges, examine what is a "religious" group etc., being considered that religion is by essence a part of Roman life and institutions. Last, we might at this time work on a difference between ordinary colleges etc. and those which requested the support of NR, under a given form to be studied.
In what is thus for me an intermediary context, not sending a positive signal to working and active citizens in their work enhancing what could result in an ambitious real project would be counterproductive.
In order that this work be as efficient as possible, I ask however, if this item is adopted, the praeses collegii (current quaestor and aed. cur. electus T. Flavius Aquila, leg. pp. Germaniae), to request, formally and with no delay, all needed advices from the Pontifex Maximus, as representative of our religious collegia.
[MHM]: VTI ROGAS.A great undertaking; it has my total support.
[EmCF]: VTI ROGAS.
[CCS]: VTI ROGAS. As our pontifex maximus approves this approach.

Tribunicii.
[QSP]: VTI ROGAS. A worthy project long overdue.
[FGA]: VTI ROGAS.
[CVP]: VTI ROGAS.

Quaestorii.
[CnIC]: VTI ROGAS. A worthy enterprise.
[PVSV]: Ita = VTI ROGAS.
[EqIL]: VTI ROGAS.

Proxy.
[MLA]: VTI ROGAS.
[MMA]: VTI ROGAS.

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Quod bonum felixque sit populo Novo Romano Quiritibus, referimus ad vos, Patres et Matres conscriptos:

Item IV.

Approval of new Senate rules

In recent times the Senate list has been becoming a tacky place for discussion, where everybody seems to feel authorized to attack and insult everybody. To avoid this situation, the Consuls propose the establishment of some minimum standards:
a) The Senate list must be under the moderation control of the Consuls...
b) The Contio will be moderated. Each Senator shall have her or his respective turns for speech and replies according to the traditions followed in ancient Rome, so nobody can monopolize the Senate rostrum and become the center of all debates.
c) The Senate list will be closed between sessions. If the Senatores would like to discuss Nova Roma matters, they can do this in private or in other forums.
d) Discussions will be not allowed during the voting time. Off topic messages during contio or voting time will be rejected.

Item IV PASSED.
VTI ROGAS: XIV.
ANTIQVO: XI.
ABSTINEO: I.

Consules.
[MIS]: VTI ROGAS.
[MCC]:VTI ROGAS.

Princeps Senatus.
[KFBQ]: VTI ROGAS. Some balanced rules are needed to give the senate good working conditions. These new rules seems to be able gives us that.

Censorii.
[CnEM]: VTI ROGAS.
[DIPI]: ABSTINEO. This version is far better than those presented before so I will not stand in its way but I will not vote for it either as I see no pressing need for it. I have no objection to some form of moderation but see no reason to close the senate list. The current list has served us well enough. I hope the new non-historical senaculum list (ok, the senate list is non-historical too, there are no senate chambers but let's not belabor the obvious) will be mandatory so the board of directors can still communicate freely. It was rather amusing to see historicity as a reason for a new list but no actual examples of historical precedent were presented and those presented by Maior actually opposed her position. No surprise there of course.
[CFD]: ANTIQVO.
[KFBM]: VTI ROGAS. I am saddened that this sort of rule is necessary. I would rather see undesirable elements within the senate thrown out instead of having to resort to more rules, but will support this change for now.

Consulares.
[MMPH]: ASSENTIOR VTI ROGAS. The Senate has serious matters to consider, requiring that its sessions work effectively towards resolutions. For that we need some rules to keep our focus on the issues. While some have voiced their opposition to any rules as a curtailment of their free speech, and others shall protest that this measure does not go far enough to ensure orderly debate, I think that there is a certain balance in the final version that offers us a working enviroment needed for our discourses.
[TiGP]: ANTIQVO. As I said before. For over ten years this Senate list has been open between sessions for any Senator to bring before this body any subject that a Senator may choose to address. The items discussed still must make their way on to the Consuls agenda before a formal vote can be taken. If it is a good idea it usual does, if not, not. I believe that an open Senate list has served us well in all of this time and I am firmly against this proposal in its entirety. If an individual Senator or a group of Senators do not want to receive messages between sessions they can simply change their own Yahoo setting for this list to digest only. Those Senators who wish to discuss an item would be free to do so.
Nova Roma needs more free and open discussions not less. During a formal session of the Senate the Consuls get to invite anybody they like to address this house and they set the agenda. Those Senators who wish to remain after a session to discuss whatever should be allowed to do so. By keeping this list open we have a permanent record of these informal discussions and can use these to determine if a given idea has merit or not. The Consuls are already moderators of this list per an agreement made during Censor Modianus Consulship on list ownership and moderation. The Senate list should remain under the ownership and lead moderation of the Censors as the Consuls have enough to do and enough power over this house as it is. The moderation of this house by the Censors, with the occasional assistance of the Consuls is one more check and balance within our system.
I see no need to change what has worked for over ten years. For the record, both public and private, I have to add that I believe this recommendation of the Consuls is one more grab for power and another effort to silence anybody who has an opinion different than theirs. It should also be noted that this is the first pair of Consuls in Nova Roman history to have ask for the ability to silence the Senate in their own house. Consuls like Modianus and myself never asked for it. Consuls dealing with a civil war back in 1998 did not request it... For ten years no other Consuls have asked for this.
I respectfully ask that ALL Senators vote against this measure for the freedom of speech you save today will be your own.
[QFM]: ANTIQVO. What has suited us for ten years needs to be changed? Why?
[TIS]:VTI ROGAS.

Praetorii.
[MAM]: ANTIQVO.
[CEC]: ANTIQVO. Nothing in ancient practice suggests or requires this kind of suppression of free speech. It is abhorrent to a free people.
[ATS]: This is a vast improvement over the earlier proposals, though I still see no reason why this list should be closed in between sessions and another one established. With considerable reservations, however, I shall vote to approve it. Clearly some here need external control as they are unable to supply the internal version. ASSENTIOR VTI ROGAS.

Aedilicii.
[PMA]: VTI ROGAS. Thanks to consul Severus wiseness and work, the proposed text offers us a resonable frame with guarantees a fair balance between the need that our Senate keep free, even tough, discussions and the improvement in having us working as efficiently as possible on the proposed items by the presiding magistrate.
Outside the sessions, we have, like our Ancients, several possibilities to discuss inside whatever frames we would wish to use: the political fight may be carried on in our fora or private debates, and the collegia or private places may welcome useful exchanges, 'think tanks' etc.
[MHM]: VTI ROGAS. The Senate list is impossible, dominated by the innumerable rantings of a few bullies. The Senaculum would siphon this off & is utterly historical. And insures free speech. Having order in the Senate is historical too as was posted.
[EmCF]: VTI ROGAS.
[CCS]: VTI ROGAS. I ask all the senators to vote for this measure. This will bring us considerably closer to ancient practices and hopefully also gurantees appropriate behaviour in the meetings of the senate. This measure has absolutely nothing to do with the freedom of speech because nothing prevents senators to send private emails or having Yahoo lists or whatever they deem necessary for discussions. I think this is a very welcome measure.

Tribunicii.
[QSP]: ANTIQVO. My views on this are pretty well reflective of what Senator Paulinus has just pointed out.
[FGA]: ANTIQVO.
[CVP]: ANTIQVO.

Quaestorii.
[CnIC]: ANTIQVO.
Point {a} creates another list for no real benefit. We have a perfectly adequate list here. Point {b} doesn't define whether the 12 hour moderation affects the right to vote in any way... Will such messages containing votes be accepted or not. Some clarification on the extent and effect of moderation would I feel have been beneficial.. Point {c} just repeats the current state of affairs.
[PVSV]: Negatio = ANTIQVO.
[EqIL]: VTI ROGAS. As revised.

Proxy:
[MLA]: VTI ROGAS.
[MMA]: ANTIQVO.

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Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter Tribunus Plebis