Talk:The Fimbria controversies (Nova Roma)

Revision as of 18:33, 11 August 2007

Author's Note

I know it is not customary to sign one's Wiki articles. I had originally done so here. Someday, when this one has been fleshed out, passed the NPOV test, and been linked to all appropriate persons and decrees, it will no longer require my signature or anyone else's; it will by then be the result of a community effort, as any good Wiki page should be.

In the meantime, however, someone created a link to this page without creating the page itself. The requirement is there. I would rather someone else wrote the thing...but it has to be written, and so far I seem to be the only taker. As long as this is the case, this article will, for me, by nature of its subject matter if nothing else, remain personal--intensely so. Hence the byline. I've since removed it; but I wanted the community to know my reasoning.

I used double pronouns ("his/her", e.g.) in the first part of the article, dropping them for the masculine once Marius realises who and what he really is. I'd be happier to eliminate them entirely, but thought I'd err on the side of diplomacy. If I've gone too far (or not far enough) in the desired direction, please advise and I'll make them consistent throughout.

There is another way: re-write to eliminate the pronouns. I've done that for much of the first paragraph and I hope it reads well and it does avoid the assignment of gender to the subject. That will perhaps permit the reader to focus on the issues, not the gender. Agricola 08:21, 9 August 2007 (CEST)

I like it! But it was a little harder to do in that second paragraph (gratias ago for paragraphing it, btw), so I just made the pronouns consistent there. (I only had two left to change.) You're right, the clumsy "s/he" construction only draws attention to the very thing Lucius Marius was trying to minimise.

I changed your iuno link; the corresponding article is about the goddess and her aspects, whereas the iuno as a woman's tutelary spirit is mentioned in the article for genius. I've also moved the last sentence of the second paragraph to be the first sentence of the third; this was done in order to highlight the contrast between Marius' and the leadership's interpretation of his request. -- Marius Peregrinus 07:19, 10 August 2007 (CEST)

In the long run we are going to have to have a disambiguation page for Iuno. Your correction should stand here, though, as correct linking is better than linking to a disambiguation page. Agricola 06:03, 11 August 2007 (CEST)

As to attributing thoughts, feelings and motivations to the subject, while such attribution is not normally deemed desirable, in this case I believe it to be critical to understanding the issue. It is very true that no Wiki writer should try to guess what was going on in the mind of his subject. It is also true that if, as I believe, it must be done here...as the subject himself, I am the only one who can do it. Again, if the Nova Roma Wiki community thinks this is a bad idea, it can be corrected; but someone else will have to do the correcting then...I'm afraid I don't have it in me to be that professional about it.

Hopefully the final version will be comprehensive, extensively documented, footnoted and linked, contain many more voices than my own and many more perspectives. It is not necessary that it be sympathetic to Fimbria unless that is what the community has come to agree about the incident.

I hope you don't mind, but I jumped ahead to the end. Also, I added headings using our year templates. I strongly urge this approach as being neutral and avoiding the issue of topical headings. I have a notion that the excellent APA link would be better as a reference footnote. This is because the off-wiki links always have that distracting arrow icon and I would like to see ALL of them moved to References sections. Agricola 06:51, 11 August 2007 (CEST)

Is good. The beginning and end just about wrote themselves; it's the in-between that's making me fidget. I think we've gone about as far as we can with this before having to name names; I'd be happy to be mistaken.

Suggest we fill in the factual gaps as much as possible from records on mailing lists etc. before we worry about that. Exactly when, for example, was "Some years later"? Agricola 16:06, 11 August 2007 (CEST)

A wise approach. I don't want to trust only memory for the detailed portion. I spent my first four years away from Nova Roma trying to forget as much of this matter as I could. (I'm only here now on psychiatric clearance.) That's why I've been looking for my paper records...and patiently recovering data from my old 386 Laptop. When that's been done, I'll have the Nota, the Main List postings, and everything else. But it'll be a while. -- Marius Peregrinus 20:02, 11 August 2007 (CEST)

I like the year templates; I just don't know how to invoke them myself. You're correct, they do contribute to the neutrality of tone. Perhaps I should just provide such raw materials as I have, encourage interested others to do the same, then let the Wiki wizards take over the formatting...?

We have help for entering dates. I suggest you concentrate on content first. People like myself, with nothing else to contribute, can help with format.Agricola 16:06, 11 August 2007 (CEST)

Don't sell yourself short! I've known planes to crash for missing a cotter-pin. Those little details can make or break any effort. -- Marius Peregrinus 20:02, 11 August 2007 (CEST)

Putting reference links in their own section is a good idea. However, I think the APA link will need to stay where it is. It is vital that the reader understand what "transgender" means before continuing on to what happened to that one individual that one time.

A funny thing: the Nota was actually issued for a chatroom prank, and other than making up part of the general hostile atmosphere towards Lucius Marius that year, it had no relation to the "gender wars". (Note: the link to the Nota text itself only works for those who are already subscribed to the [Nova-Roma] List. Does the text exist somewhere else, or can it be made to?) -- Marius Peregrinus 08:00, 11 August 2007 (CEST)

I couldn't find the nota, but I have only a vague idea when it was issued. When it is found on whatever list it exists on, we can copy it into the wiki. I did this with the recent edictum; linked to the original post and copied text here. Agricola 16:06, 11 August 2007 (CEST)

Responsum Apollonium

Just wanted to say (and I say it under a new sub-heading simply for ease of reading) that the article seems to be shaping up very nicely. I had meant to make a start on it myself, but the time disappeared, and it's nice to see it's happening anyway - and in fact coming from a better-informed source than I.  :) Perhaps in due course I'll join in with the footnoting and adding of documents.

- Cordus 20:32, 11 August 2007 (CEST)