Session LXXII

Revision as of 20:12, 3 August 2008 (view source) M. Lucretius Agricola (Talk | contribs) (+cat) ← Older edit		Revision as of 06:32, 7 August 2008 (view source) Tiberius Galerius Paulinus (Talk | contribs) Newer edit →
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	Comments from Senatores:		Comments from Senatores:
−	TOPA: I request the Consuls approach the tax-paying	+	*TOPA: I request the Consuls approach the tax-paying
	citizens of California and ask one of them to candidate for the		citizens of California and ask one of them to candidate for the
	position. The problems mentioned in the census and by several		position. The problems mentioned in the census and by several
	senators demonstrate quite clearly that new leadership is needed in this		senators demonstrate quite clearly that new leadership is needed in this
	provincia.		provincia.
−	MOG : Frankly, I'm tired of all the blather about	+	*MOG : Frankly, I'm tired of all the blather about
	him having made a		him having made a
	"threat". It was clearly a joke, and hopefully by this		"threat". It was clearly a joke, and hopefully by this
	vote of confidence we can put this matter to rest.		vote of confidence we can put this matter to rest.
−	FAC : I think that California needs a new governor	+	*FAC : I think that California needs a new governor
	able to raise new citizens and make active the Provincia.		able to raise new citizens and make active the Provincia.
	The only activity which could be organized is a collaboration with Getty Museum		The only activity which could be organized is a collaboration with Getty Museum
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	accused to traffic		accused to traffic
	illegal rests stolen in Italy.		illegal rests stolen in Italy.
−	TGP : There seems to me to be a large amount of	+	*TGP : There seems to me to be a large amount of
	truth in what our Pater Patriae Flavius Vedius Germanicus has said on		truth in what our Pater Patriae Flavius Vedius Germanicus has said on
	the subject of Quintus Fabius service as governor of California. The		the subject of Quintus Fabius service as governor of California. The
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	for each province. Some thought should also be given to		for each province. Some thought should also be given to
	reducing the size of some of our provinces.		reducing the size of some of our provinces.
−	CCS : California needs an active propraetor.	+	*CCS : California needs an active propraetor.
−	MMA : I asked the Senate for their views on this as	+	*MMA : I asked the Senate for their views on this as
	I was not sure how to vote, considering the items mentioned in my		I was not sure how to vote, considering the items mentioned in my
	post. Apparently some Senators do not believe that each of us have the		post. Apparently some Senators do not believe that each of us have the
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	well, and the size problems of the provinces of California and Nova		well, and the size problems of the provinces of California and Nova
	Britannia are very similar.		Britannia are very similar.
−	GSA : I was planning to abstain on this item,	+	*GSA : I was planning to abstain on this item,
	considering that any governor, no matter how bad, is better than no		considering that any governor, no matter how bad, is better than no
	governor at all, and offering Q.Fabius Maximus the opportunity to improve		governor at all, and offering Q.Fabius Maximus the opportunity to improve
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	foresee any future improvement. Besides, his excuses are not		foresee any future improvement. Besides, his excuses are not
	convincing enough to me; I live in a province (Hispania) which is		convincing enough to me; I live in a province (Hispania) which is
−	comparable in extension	+	comparable in extension (194,897 sq mi) and population (44 million
−	(194,897 sq mi) and population (44 million	+
	inhabitants) to California, and mine is a very active and lively province thanks		inhabitants) to California, and mine is a very active and lively province thanks
	to the good work of successive provincial governments over the years.		to the good work of successive provincial governments over the years.
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	other California citizens to present themselves for the office, and we		other California citizens to present themselves for the office, and we
	might one day have the propraetor that California deserves.		might one day have the propraetor that California deserves.
−	AMA : I have not met Senator Fabius, nor do I feel	+	*AMA : I have not met Senator Fabius, nor do I feel
	that I have followed the debate enough to express an opinion on		that I have followed the debate enough to express an opinion on
	this matter.		this matter.
−	GFBM: I had originally intended to vote Uti Rogas	+	*GFBM: I had originally intended to vote Uti Rogas
	for Senator Maximus. However, the way he responded to Caeso		for Senator Maximus. However, the way he responded to Caeso
	Fabius Buteo Quintilianus gives me reason to question his		Fabius Buteo Quintilianus gives me reason to question his
	intentions, and ability to function as Proconsul. I'm not sure I believe all		intentions, and ability to function as Proconsul. I'm not sure I believe all
−	of the rhetoric	+	of the rhetoric against Maximus, but I do know that his response to
−	against Maximus, but I do know that his response to	+	Quintilianus was unnecessary as it was worded.
−	Quintilianus was	+	*ATMC: Although Senator Fabius is, a overly rough in
−	unnecessary as it was worded.	+
−	ATMC: Although Senator Fabius is, a overly rough in	+
	his dealing with people at times, asnd there were threats etc., and		his dealing with people at times, asnd there were threats etc., and
	even got me a bit angry with him once long ago, I hold no grudge, and		even got me a bit angry with him once long ago, I hold no grudge, and
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	who will say that I am making a mistake, and perhaps you are right,		who will say that I am making a mistake, and perhaps you are right,
	but I am willing to give him another chance.		but I am willing to give him another chance.
−	JSM : For an individual to be successful in the	+	*JSM : For an individual to be successful in the
	office of propraetor of any provincia requires strong people skills --		office of propraetor of any provincia requires strong people skills --
	motivating and encouraging citizen involvement and recognising		motivating and encouraging citizen involvement and recognising
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	see another side of him. I, however, must base my decision on years of		see another side of him. I, however, must base my decision on years of
	reading his postings to this and other lists, and I find Fabius		reading his postings to this and other lists, and I find Fabius
−	Maximus unsuited to lead a provincia, based on my observations.	+	*Maximus unsuited to lead a provincia, based on my observations.
−	DIPI: Fabius is often berated for his behavior but	+	*DIPI: Fabius is often berated for his behavior but
	his critics in this issue have often been far worse than he in the		his critics in this issue have often been far worse than he in the
	manner of their criticism. Fabius has done nothing but behave		manner of their criticism. Fabius has done nothing but behave
	honorably in the matter of his proconsulship.		honorably in the matter of his proconsulship.
−	QFM : Im voting for myself because if I abstain its	+	*QFM : Im voting for myself because if I abstain its
	the same as a no vote.		the same as a no vote.
−	LSA : What sense is there in turning down Quintus	+	*LSA : What sense is there in turning down Quintus
	Fabius' request to continue and instead go to citizens who have expressed		Fabius' request to continue and instead go to citizens who have expressed
	no interest in the post and asking them to take it?		no interest in the post and asking them to take it?
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
−
	ITEM II:		ITEM II:
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	*ATMC: Uti Rogas.		*ATMC: Uti Rogas.
	*FVG : Antiquo.		*FVG : Antiquo.
−
	The proposal of Item II received 21 Uti Rogas, 6		The proposal of Item II received 21 Uti Rogas, 6
	Antiquo and 1 abstention, and the item passes.		Antiquo and 1 abstention, and the item passes.
−
−
−
	Comments from Senatores:		Comments from Senatores:
−	CFBQ: I fully trust Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia to	+	*CFBQ: I fully trust Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia to
	use these funds for the best of the Res Publica and her provincia.		use these funds for the best of the Res Publica and her provincia.
−	PMS : I am pleased to vote to extend this funding to	+	*PMS : I am pleased to vote to extend this funding to Arnamentia
−	Arnamentia	+	Moravia Aurelia, citizen since 2002 who has proven herself to be an attentive,
−	Moravia Aurelia, citizen since 2002 who has proven	+	outstanding Propraetrix et al. Her agenda
−	herself to be an attentive, outstanding Propraetrix et al. Her agenda	+
	of plans for the provincia looks exciting and will benefit the republic		of plans for the provincia looks exciting and will benefit the republic
	as a whole.		as a whole.
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	instance I can see was Hispania in 2002, and they received the		instance I can see was Hispania in 2002, and they received the
	funding as requested.		funding as requested.
−	FVG : While I do not have any objection to the	+	*FVG : While I do not have any objection to the
	proper application of our law regarding taxes, it is my understanding that		proper application of our law regarding taxes, it is my understanding that
	we have yet to receive the promised "figures and letter of		we have yet to receive the promised "figures and letter of
	explanation of the Propraetrix". I certainly have nothing to that effect		explanation of the Propraetrix". I certainly have nothing to that effect
	in my email inbox. On that basis alone I must say no.		in my email inbox. On that basis alone I must say no.
−	GSA : I do not want this vote to be seen as a vote	+	*GSA : I do not want this vote to be seen as a vote
	against Arnamentia Moravia's performance as propraetrix; I am		against Arnamentia Moravia's performance as propraetrix; I am
	quite happy with her. Rather, it is a vote against the possibility that		quite happy with her. Rather, it is a vote against the possibility that
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	request refunding from previous years - only for the period of		request refunding from previous years - only for the period of
	that very same year. That makes a lot of difference.		that very same year. That makes a lot of difference.
−	JSM : I know my colleague personally and, based on	+	*JSM : I know my colleague personally and, based on
	her performance as my legata, as well as my firm conviction that		her performance as my legata, as well as my firm conviction that
	activities such as those she has outlined are essential to strengthen the		activities such as those she has outlined are essential to strengthen the
	bonds between civis and Nova Roma, I am glad to		bonds between civis and Nova Roma, I am glad to
	support her proposals.		support her proposals.
−	QFM : I understand that 50% of revenue was to	+	*QFM : I understand that 50% of revenue was to returned to the provinces if requested.
−	returned to the	+	I assumed that meant that it would be for a
−	provinces if requested. I assumed that meant that it	+
−	would be for a	+
	significant event or happening. Senator Moravia does		significant event or happening. Senator Moravia does
−	not make a	+	not make a compelling argument of HOW these monies were to be
−	compelling argument of HOW these monies were to be	+	used for the event. General expenses should be budgeted by the
−	used for the event.	+	administration, for reimbursement, or raised separately from the citizenry
−	General expenses should be budgeted by the	+	and various fund raisers.
−	administration, for re	+
−	imbursement, or raised separately from the citizenry	+
−	and various fund	+
−	raisers.	+
−		+
−		+
	ITEM III:		ITEM III:
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	Comments from Senatores:		Comments from Senatores:
−	CFBQ: I don't think any Senator who contribute shall	+	*CFBQ: I don't think any Senator who contribute shall
−	have the right	+	have the right to decide where the money should go, but on the other
−	to decide where the money should go, but on the other	+	hand I would listen to a suggestion from anybody and this
−	hand I would	+
−	listen to a suggestion from anybody and this	+
	suggestion is a good one.		suggestion is a good one.
−	Here we have chance to strengthen the only ongoing	+	Here we have chance to strengthen the only ongoing Nova Roma project
−	Nova Roma project	+
	and I for one will take that chance. Still I must once		and I for one will take that chance. Still I must once
−	more encourage	+	more encourage the Consuls to set one (we need to be careful when
−	the Consuls to set one (we need to be careful when	+	taking on such responsibilities so that we will be able to meet our
−	taking on such	+	own promises) more project. I have mentioned Vindolanda (on the
−	responsibilities so that we will be able to meet our	+	Hadrian wall) in Britannia before in different forums. As this year's
−	own promises)	+	European Conventus is located on this very wall it becomes an
−	more project. I have mentioned Vindolanda (on the	+	excellent target for our support if it is at all possible, something
−	Hadrian wall) in	+	that our excellent Propraetor of Britannia is well placed to find out.
−	Britannia before in different forums. As this year's	+	*MOG : My preference would be to abstain from voting
−	European	+	on matters in which I have no particular knowledge or interest; and
−	Conventus is located on this very wall it becomes an	+	allocation of funds is generally one of those. Unfortunately, there
−	excellent target	+	is no such thing as an abstain vote under the Senate procedures of the
−	for our support if it is at all possible, something	+	past few years; no way to declare oneself neutral. This should have
−	that our excellent	+	been fixed a long time ago. Thus I vote: Mu.
−	Propraetor of Britannia is well placed to find out.	+	*FAC : The Magna Mater Project, our most important
−	MOG : My preference would be to abstain from voting	+	project, needs more funds to move to a more advances level.
−	on matters in	+	*QSP : A very worthwhile project that helps give NR good credibility.
−	which I have no particular knowledge or interest; and	+
−	allocation of	+
−	funds is generally one of those. Unfortunately, there	+
−	is no such thing	+
−	as an abstain vote under the Senate procedures of the	+
−	past few years;	+
−	no way to declare oneself neutral. This should have	+
−	been fixed a long	+
−	time ago. Thus I vote: Mu.	+
−	FAC : The Magna Mater Project, our most important	+
−	project, needs	+
−	more funds to move to a more advances level.	+
−	QSP : A very worthwhile project that helps give NR	+
−	good credibility.	+
	TGP : It will take years for Caius Curius Saturninus		TGP : It will take years for Caius Curius Saturninus
−	to recover his	+	to recover his investment and I would like the Senate to rebate the
−	investment and I would like the Senate to rebate the	+	5% to Caius Curius Saturninus so this happens sooner.
−	5% to Caius	+	*CCS : Magna Mater project needs much more
−	Curius Saturninus so this happens sooner.	+
−	CCS : Magna Mater project needs much more	+
	contributions than donations have given this far. With this request I		contributions than donations have given this far. With this request I
	want to encourage private citizens to make more donations and the whole		want to encourage private citizens to make more donations and the whole
	of Nova Roma to give more support for the project.		of Nova Roma to give more support for the project.
−	GSA : Although I would personally like to thank my	+	*GSA : Although I would personally like to thank my
	excellent friend and colleague C. Curius Saturninus for his generosity,		excellent friend and colleague C. Curius Saturninus for his generosity,
	I think, again, that it is bad practice for donors to dictate to the		I think, again, that it is bad practice for donors to dictate to the
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	Magna Mater fund through the channels provided for such donations,		Magna Mater fund through the channels provided for such donations,
	without needing permission from the Senate.		without needing permission from the Senate.
−	AMA : A worthy project.	+	*AMA : A worthy project.
−	GFBM: I am very supportive of the Magna Mater	+	*GFBM: I am very supportive of the Magna Mater
	project, so I do not want my vote to be seen as a means to undermine this		project, so I do not want my vote to be seen as a means to undermine this
	excellent project. The reason for my vote is because the Magna		excellent project. The reason for my vote is because the Magna
−	Mater project	+	Mater project has a few individuals who have donated considerable
−	has a few individuals who have donated considerable	+	donations to the project in the past few months. I also know of some
−	donations to the	+	pending fundraisers by the Aediles to boost the Magna Mater
−	project in the past few months. I also know of some	+	fund. The Nova Roma treasury needs its own source of income, and
−	pending	+	allowing Equestrians to dictate were their percentage donations are going
−	fundraisers by the Aediles to boost the Magna Mater	+	to go could lead to long term problems. I would rather the fund be
−	fund. The Nova	+	sent to the Nova Roma treasury. If at any time the Magna Mater Project
−	Roma treasury needs its own source of income, and	+	is in need of funds they can always request funds from the treasury.
−	allowing Equestrians	+	*JSM : I do not believe that this sets a good budgetary precedent.
−	to dictate were their percentage donations are going	+
−	to go could lead	+
−	to long term problems. I would rather the fund be	+
−	sent to the Nova	+
−	Roma treasury. If at any time the Magna Mater Project	+
−	is in need of	+
−	funds they can always request funds from the treasury	+
−	.	+
−	JSM : I do not believe that this sets a good	+
−	budgetary precedent.	+
	The calendar is an outstanding project, as is Magna		The calendar is an outstanding project, as is Magna
−	Mater. But we are	+	Mater. But we are responsible for the overall financial health of Nova
−	responsible for the overall financial health of Nova	+	Roma, and the decline in our tax revenues is a cause for long-term
−	Roma, and the	+
−	decline in our tax revenues is a cause for long-term	+
	concern.		concern.
−	DIPI: I agree with Astur that it would be a bad	+	*DIPI: I agree with Astur that it would be a bad precedent for
−	precedent for	+
	donations be directed to specific funds without prior		donations be directed to specific funds without prior
−	approval of the	+	approval of the senate. As noted, he certaiinly can direct an
−	senate. As noted, he certaiinly can direct an	+	additional 5 percent to the Magna Mater fund.
−	additional 5 percent to	+	*QFM : I believe that if the Senate wants to give
−	the Magna Mater fund.	+
−	QFM : I believe that if the Senate wants to give	+
	money to MM fund, it will come out of the general fund. I admire Curius		money to MM fund, it will come out of the general fund. I admire Curius
	zeal to the Great Mother, but this just sets a dangerous precedent		zeal to the Great Mother, but this just sets a dangerous precedent

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Revision as of 06:32, 7 August 2008

Tribunus Plebis Marcus Arminius Maior Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit:

Report of Senate session

Senate Voting Results, as published on pridie Nonas Iunias MMDCCLIX A.U.C. (04 June 2006 CE).

The Senate was called to order on May 21, 2006 (2759) by Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo.

The Contio was held on agenda items from 24 May 2006 through 28 May 2006. Voting on the agenda items was then held from 28 May 2006, 20:00, through 31 May 2006, 20:00 Rome time.

On 31th of May, the latest session of the Senate of Nova Roma was declared closed by the Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo, in which 28 of the 37 senatores voted, fulfilling the quorum needed for the session.

Here are the list of the voting Senators, alphabetically listed by nomen:

• [SAS] Sextus Apollonius Scipio
• [FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar
• [MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior
• [MBA] Marcus Bianchius Antonius
• [CCS] Caius Curius Saturninus
• [ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica
• [LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
• [GFBM] Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
• [CFBQ] Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
• [QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus
• [CFD] Caius Flavius Diocletianus
• [TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
• [MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus
• [DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
• [TLF] Titus Labienus Fortunatus
• [MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens
• [LMS] Lucius Minicius Sceptius
• [PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo
• [AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
• [MOG] Marcus Octavius Germanicus
• [TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
• [GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas
• [GSA] Gnaeus Salvius Astur
• [JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna
• [LSA] Lucius Sergius Australicus
• [QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
• [ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
• [FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus

The following senatores failed to vote in this session:

• [MAGG] Marcus Antonius Gryllus Graecus
• [LAF] Lucius Arminius Faustus
• [MCJ] Marcus Cassius Julianus
• [PC] Patricia Cassia
• [MCS] Manius Constantinus Serapio
• [LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
• [GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
• [GL] Gaia Livia
• [GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus

Commments: Senator M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus send his vote before the voting period, and Senator Gn. Equitius Marinus send his proxy, that was not effected.

The items for consideration were as follows:

ITEM I: Gubernatorial Candidates

i. Candidates for Mediatlantica Propraetorship. There are two candidates asking for appointment:- Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Senator et Praetor is to be appointed Propraetor Mediatlantica - Gaius Equitius Cato Curule Aedile is to be appointed Propraetor Mediatlantica

• SAS : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• FAC : Abstineo.
• MAM : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• MBA : Uti Rogas, for both candidates.
• CCS : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• ECF : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• LECA: Uti Rogas, for G. Equitius Cato.
• CFBM: Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• CFBQ: Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• QFM : Uti Rogas, for G. Equitius Cato.
• CFD : Uti Rogas, for G. Equitius Cato.
• TGP : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• MIP : Abstineo.
• DIPI: Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• TLF : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• MMA : Uti Rogas, for both candidates.
• LMS : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• PMS : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• AMA : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• MOG : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• TOPA: Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• GPL : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
• GSA : Uti Rogas, for G. Equitius Cato.
• JSM : Uti Rogas, for G. Equitius Cato.
• LSA : Uti Rogas, for G. Equitius Cato.
• QSP : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.

8ATMC: Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.

• FVG : Uti Rogas, for Ti. Galerius Paulinus.

Candidate Ti. Galerius Paulinus received 20 Uti Rogas, candidate G. Equitius Cato received 8 uti Rogas, and there were 2 abstentions (2 senatores voted for both).

Congratulation Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, appointed by the Senatus Propraetor of Provincia Mediatlantica.

Comments from Senatores:

• TOPA: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus is clearly the more

qualified and experienced candidate and as such has my vote.

• CCS : While both of the candidates have my support,

I feel proper to vote the one which I see as more qualified for the position. I'm glad to see that there is actually a choice for propraetorship in provincia, let's hope that in the future too the Senate has the privilege to choose from many candidates when filling propraetorships.

• LECA: I believe that Cato is most qualified. He is

Curule Aedile and as current Legate to Nova Eboracum Mediatlantica he has proven himself as Quaestor along with his contributions to the coin project and his informative daily posts to the Forum.

• GFBM: Between the two choices of Cato or Paulinus I

believe that Paulinus is the most qualified. With Paulinus being a current Praetor it seems only fitting that he should also serve as a provincial governor.

• GPL : I have the greatest respect for Gaius

Equitius, but I believe Paulinus to be the better choice at this point. I hope Cato will continue to serve as a provincial Legate.

• JSM : I consider both candidates to be qualified;

Cato, however, has a track record of organising face-to-face meetings of provincials -- a thing I consider essential to furthering provincial involvement And commitment to Nova Roma.

• DIPI: Nothing against Cato, he has served well so

far in his brief service to the republic but it would be doing a disservice to Nova Roma and the cursus honorum to appoint an aedile as governor over a sitting praetor and senator.

• QFM : Equitius is qualified, and knowledgeable. I

dont agree with his religious views, but thats the beauty of non discrimination.

ii Candidate for America Austrorientalis Propraetorship Flavius Galerius Aurelianus Flamen Cerealis is to be appointed Propraetor America Austrorientalis.

• SAS : Uti Rogas.
• FAC : Uti Rogas.
• MAM : Uti Rogas.
• MBA : Uti Rogas.
• CCS : Uti Rogas.
• ECF : Uti Rogas.
• LECA: Uti Rogas.
• CFBM: Uti Rogas.
• CFBQ: Uti Rogas.
• QFM : Uti Rogas.
• CFD : Uti Rogas.
• TGP : Uti Rogas.
• MIP : Uti Rogas.
• DIPI: Uti Rogas.
• TLF : Uti Rogas.
• MMA : Uti Rogas.
• LMS : Uti Rogas.
• PMS : Uti Rogas.
• AMA : Uti Rogas.
• MOG : Uti Rogas.
• TOPA: Uti Rogas.
• GPL : Uti Rogas.
• GSA : Uti Rogas.
• JSM : Uti Rogas.
• LSA : Uti Rogas.
• QSP : Uti Rogas.
• ATMC: Uti Rogas.
• FVG : Uti Rogas.

Candidate Flavius Galerius Aurelianus received 28 Uti Rogas, and is appointed unanimously.

Congratulations Flavius Galerius Aurelianus, appointed by the Senatus Propraetor of Provincia America Austrorientalis.

Comments from Senatores:

• QFM : Galerius is one of our more active members of

NR.

iii Candidate for California Proconsulship Quintus Fabius Maximus Senator is to be appointed Propraetor (Proconsul) California.

• SAS : Uti Rogas.
• FAC : Antiquo.
• MAM : Uti Rogas.
• MBA : Uti Rogas.
• CCS : Antiquo.
• ECF : Antiquo.
• LECA: Uti Rogas.
• CFBM: Antiquo.
• CFBQ: Antiquo.
• QFM : Uti Rogas.
• CFD : Uti Rogas.
• TGP : Uti Rogas.
• MIP : Antiquo.
• DIPI: Uti Rogas.
• TLF : Uti Rogas.
• MMA : Uti Rogas.
• LMS : Abstineo.
• PMS : Antiquo.
• AMA : Abstineo.
• MOG : Uti Rogas.
• TOPA: Antiquo.
• GPL : Uti Rogas.
• GSA : Antiquo.
• JSM : Antiquo.
• LSA : Uti Rogas.
• QSP : Uti Rogas.
• ATMC: Uti Rogas.
• FVG : Uti Rogas.

Candidate Q. Fabius Maximus received 16 Uti Rogas, 10 Antiquo and 2 abstentions.

Congratulations Q. Fabius Maximus, appointed by the Senatus Proconsul of Provincia California.

Comments from Senatores:

• TOPA: I request the Consuls approach the tax-paying

citizens of California and ask one of them to candidate for the position. The problems mentioned in the census and by several senators demonstrate quite clearly that new leadership is needed in this provincia.

• MOG : Frankly, I'm tired of all the blather about

him having made a "threat". It was clearly a joke, and hopefully by this vote of confidence we can put this matter to rest.

• FAC : I think that California needs a new governor

able to raise new citizens and make active the Provincia. The only activity which could be organized is a collaboration with Getty Museum which is involved in one of the biggest archeological swindle because accused to traffic illegal rests stolen in Italy.

• TGP : There seems to me to be a large amount of

truth in what our Pater Patriae Flavius Vedius Germanicus has said on the subject of Quintus Fabius service as governor of California. The Senate should give serious thought to setting goals in terms of taxpayers and additional citizens as well as face to face meetings for each province. Some thought should also be given to reducing the size of some of our provinces.

• CCS : California needs an active propraetor.
• MMA : I asked the Senate for their views on this as

I was not sure how to vote, considering the items mentioned in my post. Apparently some Senators do not believe that each of us have the right to our beliefs, and must criticize everything said which disagrees with their views. However, four Senators replied to my questions and concerns, and made many good points. Some I had not considered sufficiently until I read their messages. My thanks to these five Senators as your comments have helped me greatly in making my decision. I also thank Senator Octavious for his input although it was not quite so polite. Senator Maximus has also provided some new material that I was not aware of. Considering all this material together, I have decided to continue to support Senator Maximus in his request to take up once more his Proconsulship in California, based on the replies to my question, and to the sensibility and service that all of the above have demonstrated. Most of the problems that Senator Maximus has in his Province, I find are significant in my province as well, and the size problems of the provinces of California and Nova Britannia are very similar.

• GSA : I was planning to abstain on this item,

considering that any governor, no matter how bad, is better than no governor at all, and offering Q.Fabius Maximus the opportunity to improve the situation in California. However, instead of describing his future plans for his provincia, Q.Fabius Maximus has spent the contio trying to excuse his lack of past activity in terms that do not allow me to foresee any future improvement. Besides, his excuses are not convincing enough to me; I live in a province (Hispania) which is comparable in extension (194,897 sq mi) and population (44 million inhabitants) to California, and mine is a very active and lively province thanks to the good work of successive provincial governments over the years. Therefore, I vote *against* Q. Fabius Maximus being reinstated as governor for another bare, fruitless year. Maybe the void will encourage other California citizens to present themselves for the office, and we might one day have the propraetor that California deserves.

• AMA : I have not met Senator Fabius, nor do I feel

that I have followed the debate enough to express an opinion on this matter.

• GFBM: I had originally intended to vote Uti Rogas

for Senator Maximus. However, the way he responded to Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus gives me reason to question his intentions, and ability to function as Proconsul. I'm not sure I believe all of the rhetoric against Maximus, but I do know that his response to Quintilianus was unnecessary as it was worded.

• ATMC: Although Senator Fabius is, a overly rough in

his dealing with people at times, asnd there were threats etc., and even got me a bit angry with him once long ago, I hold no grudge, and respect his great knowledge, and contributions to Nova Roma over the years. I would like to believe, that he perhaps has learned something from our friendly criticism, and that he can perhaps try to change his approach when dealing with those that he strongly disagrees with. All of us are human and have our failings. The thing to always work on is to improve ourselves in our relationships with others. I am willing to support Senator Fabius this time, to give him the opportunity to demonstrate that he is the right person. Yes, there are those here who will say that I am making a mistake, and perhaps you are right, but I am willing to give him another chance.

• JSM : For an individual to be successful in the

office of propraetor of any provincia requires strong people skills -- motivating and encouraging citizen involvement and recognising superior contributions. Those who have met Fabius Maximus may see another side of him. I, however, must base my decision on years of reading his postings to this and other lists, and I find Fabius

• Maximus unsuited to lead a provincia, based on my observations.
• DIPI: Fabius is often berated for his behavior but

his critics in this issue have often been far worse than he in the manner of their criticism. Fabius has done nothing but behave honorably in the matter of his proconsulship.

• QFM : Im voting for myself because if I abstain its

the same as a no vote.

• LSA : What sense is there in turning down Quintus

Fabius' request to continue and instead go to citizens who have expressed no interest in the post and asking them to take it?

ITEM II: Propraetrix et Senatrix Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia has requested that she receive payment for 50% of her province's tax remittance from 2005 and 2006, less transfer costs, based on accounts receivable spreadsheets, managed by Quaestors. This shall be granted as per prevailing law and payment forwarded to her by Patricia Cassia on behalf of this august body.

• SAS : Uti Rogas.
• FAC : Uti Rogas.
• MAM : Uti Rogas.
• MBA : Uti Rogas.
• CCS : Uti Rogas.
• ECF : Uti Rogas.
• LECA: Antiquo.
• CFBM: Uti Rogas.
• CFBQ: Uti Rogas.
• QFM : Antiquo.
• CFD : Antiquo.
• TGP : Uti Rogas.
• MIP : Uti Rogas.
• DIPI: Abstineo.
• TLF : Uti Rogas.
• MMA : Uti Rogas.
• LMS : Uti Rogas.
• PMS : Uti Rogas.
• AMA : Uti Rogas.
• MOG : Uti Rogas.
• TOPA: Uti Rogas.
• GPL : Uti Rogas.
• GSA : Antiquo.
• JSM : Uti Rogas.
• LSA : Antiquo.
• QSP : Uti Rogas.
• ATMC: Uti Rogas.
• FVG : Antiquo.

The proposal of Item II received 21 Uti Rogas, 6 Antiquo and 1 abstention, and the item passes.

Comments from Senatores:

• CFBQ: I fully trust Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia to

use these funds for the best of the Res Publica and her provincia.

• PMS : I am pleased to vote to extend this funding to Arnamentia

Moravia Aurelia, citizen since 2002 who has proven herself to be an attentive, outstanding Propraetrix et al. Her agenda of plans for the provincia looks exciting and will benefit the republic as a whole. Her province's tax money is in good hands with her. She is requesting funding for the time she has been Propraetrix only. Our budget has an annual amount dedicated to provincia tax portions. This is one of these times the money is being requisitioned. The last instance I can see was Hispania in 2002, and they received the funding as requested.

• FVG : While I do not have any objection to the

proper application of our law regarding taxes, it is my understanding that we have yet to receive the promised "figures and letter of explanation of the Propraetrix". I certainly have nothing to that effect in my email inbox. On that basis alone I must say no.

• GSA : I do not want this vote to be seen as a vote

against Arnamentia Moravia's performance as propraetrix; I am quite happy with her. Rather, it is a vote against the possibility that the budget of a previous year be modified after that year is over. I explicitly would like to invite Propraetrix Arnamentia Moravia to present a plan and a budget for the activities she plans to fund with that money this year, and I will be more than happy to vote in favour of that very same amount of money - or even more, if necessary. But, in principle, we can not allow for this kind of bad accountancy practices. Last year's exercise has been closed, and that should be the end of it. Hispania did request a refunding four years ago, but we did not request refunding from previous years - only for the period of that very same year. That makes a lot of difference.

• JSM : I know my colleague personally and, based on

her performance as my legata, as well as my firm conviction that activities such as those she has outlined are essential to strengthen the bonds between civis and Nova Roma, I am glad to support her proposals.

• QFM : I understand that 50% of revenue was to returned to the provinces if requested.

I assumed that meant that it would be for a significant event or happening. Senator Moravia does not make a compelling argument of HOW these monies were to be used for the event. General expenses should be budgeted by the administration, for reimbursement, or raised separately from the citizenry and various fund raisers.

ITEM III: Propraetor et Senator Caius Curius Saturninus requests that the 5% from his calendar sales payable to Nova Roma be applied to the Magna Mater Fund. These calendars were approved of the Senate in January of this year and are advertised on www.novaroma.org This financial reconcilliation will be made prior to the final budget presentation on or about Dec. 15, 2959 AUC

• SAS : Uti Rogas.
• FAC : Uti Rogas.
• MAM : Antiquo.
• MBA : Uti Rogas.
• CCS : Uti Rogas.
• ECF : Uti Rogas.
• LECA: Antiquo.
• CFBM: Antiquo.
• CFBQ: Uti Rogas.
• QFM : Antiquo.
• CFD : Antiquo.
• TGP : Antiquo.
• MIP : Uti Rogas.
• DIPI: Antiquo.
• TLF : Uti Rogas.
• MMA : Antiquo.
• LMS : Uti Rogas.
• PMS : Uti Rogas.
• AMA : Uti Rogas.
• MOG : "mu", interpreted as "no voting".
• TOPA: Uti Rogas.
• GPL : Antiquo.
• GSA : Antiquo.
• JSM : Antiquo.
• LSA : Uti Rogas.
• QSP : Uti Rogas.
• ATMC: Uti Rogas.
• FVG : Antiquo.

The proposal of Item III received 15 Uti Rogas, 12 Antiquo, 1 senator refused to vote, and the item passes.

Comments from Senatores:

• CFBQ: I don't think any Senator who contribute shall

have the right to decide where the money should go, but on the other hand I would listen to a suggestion from anybody and this suggestion is a good one. Here we have chance to strengthen the only ongoing Nova Roma project and I for one will take that chance. Still I must once more encourage the Consuls to set one (we need to be careful when taking on such responsibilities so that we will be able to meet our own promises) more project. I have mentioned Vindolanda (on the Hadrian wall) in Britannia before in different forums. As this year's European Conventus is located on this very wall it becomes an excellent target for our support if it is at all possible, something that our excellent Propraetor of Britannia is well placed to find out.

• MOG : My preference would be to abstain from voting

on matters in which I have no particular knowledge or interest; and allocation of funds is generally one of those. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as an abstain vote under the Senate procedures of the past few years; no way to declare oneself neutral. This should have been fixed a long time ago. Thus I vote: Mu.

• FAC : The Magna Mater Project, our most important

project, needs more funds to move to a more advances level.

• QSP : A very worthwhile project that helps give NR good credibility.

TGP : It will take years for Caius Curius Saturninus to recover his investment and I would like the Senate to rebate the 5% to Caius Curius Saturninus so this happens sooner.

• CCS : Magna Mater project needs much more

contributions than donations have given this far. With this request I want to encourage private citizens to make more donations and the whole of Nova Roma to give more support for the project.

• GSA : Although I would personally like to thank my

excellent friend and colleague C. Curius Saturninus for his generosity, I think, again, that it is bad practice for donors to dictate to the Senate the terms in which their donations should be spent. That is the prerogative of the Senate, according to the needs of Nova Roma, and no one else's. Otherwise, Saturninus could directly donate to the Magna Mater fund through the channels provided for such donations, without needing permission from the Senate.

• AMA : A worthy project.
• GFBM: I am very supportive of the Magna Mater

project, so I do not want my vote to be seen as a means to undermine this excellent project. The reason for my vote is because the Magna Mater project has a few individuals who have donated considerable donations to the project in the past few months. I also know of some pending fundraisers by the Aediles to boost the Magna Mater fund. The Nova Roma treasury needs its own source of income, and allowing Equestrians to dictate were their percentage donations are going to go could lead to long term problems. I would rather the fund be sent to the Nova Roma treasury. If at any time the Magna Mater Project is in need of funds they can always request funds from the treasury.

• JSM : I do not believe that this sets a good budgetary precedent.

The calendar is an outstanding project, as is Magna Mater. But we are responsible for the overall financial health of Nova Roma, and the decline in our tax revenues is a cause for long-term concern.

• DIPI: I agree with Astur that it would be a bad precedent for

donations be directed to specific funds without prior approval of the senate. As noted, he certaiinly can direct an additional 5 percent to the Magna Mater fund.

• QFM : I believe that if the Senate wants to give

money to MM fund, it will come out of the general fund. I admire Curius zeal to the Great Mother, but this just sets a dangerous precedent of separating funds within the general fund.

Valete Marcus Arminius Maior Tribunus Plebis