Session XXV 05 December 2753
Senate session report of 5 December 2753, as posted in the “old Tabularium” .
This appears to be the first Tribune report, by tribune Lucius Sergius Australicus.
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, Censor, 9 August 2761 auc.
Savete quirites!
COMPLETE Results of Voting on the November Senate Agenda
Proxies for A. Gryllus Graecus and M. Iunius were cast by L. Cornelius
Sulla Proxies for M. Iucundia Flavia were cast by Q. Fabius Maximus
Senator A. Probus cast the following votes too late to be counted as valid:
Item I - No; Item II -Yes; Item III - Yes; Item IIII - Yes; Item V - Yes; Item VI - Yes; Item VII - Yes; Item VIII - A - No; B - Yes; Item VIIII - A - Yes; B - No; Item X - Yes; Item XI - Yes; Item XII - Yes (with an additional note): According to the last item I would like to post a question. What if few years after we will have other citizens in Chile, Uruguai, Paraguai and Bolivia? Will we create separate provinces for every national country or will try to simpliify the things uniting some of them into one NR province. My opinion is to createa province with a different name than one national state in the regio. That name may to be acceptable for the potential citizens from all the national states in the regio. On the other hand Argentina is a very big country so she could be a separate province. I would like to hear opinions on that issue of colleagues more experienced with the situation of America Australis.
1. Reimbursement of Magistrates and their appointees from the Nova Roma Treasury
Proposal
Elected magistrates and their appointees will be reimbursed by the Central Treasury for reasonable expenses incurred in the day-to-day operation of Nova Roma. These include, but are not limited to: printing and mailing the Eagle, hosting the Nova Roma Web site, and necessary mailing costs connected with the Censors' Office when dealing with those who lack Internet access.
Magistrates are expected to be frugal in the use of Nova Roma's resources, using e-mail instead of making long-distance calls, storing information on disk rather than on paper, and seeking help from other Citizens rather than paying for services in the macronational marketplace. Magistrates who wish to implement more costly systems of getting their jobs done are welcome to do so by contributing their own resources.
There will be no funds advanced to Magistrates. To receive reimbursement, a magistrate must submit (to a Quaestor designated by the Consuls) proof of the expenditure (a receipt, not a hand written note) and an explanation of its purpose (this may be hand written). If the request is reasonable, the Quaestor will approve it for payment. If there is an issue which blocks the reimbursement which cannot be resolved between the Quaestor and the magistrate, the Consuls will be asked to adjudicate or to appoint a disinterested party to do so. Such decision will be final.
Reimbursement for expenses occurred in special projects (including but not limited to) new Macellum products; public-service projects, outreach efforts; as well as Special Events, must be approved by the Senate, approval being based on a statement from the applicant with an estimate of the costs involved and the benefits to Nova Roma of the project's implementation.
If funds are promised the applicant upon completing the project will submit all receipts, indicated in the original estimate, before reimbursement will take place. The amount of reimbursement will be limited to the received receipts. Missing receipts will receive no reimbursement.
If the project appears to be going over approved budget, the applicant may return to the Senate and ask for additional money, however, the Senate is not obligated to give any additional money. The applicant is expected to complete project. If it is not completed, the applicant will receive no reimbursement.
Vote and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: No
- A. Gryllus Graecis: No
- M. Iunius: No
- C. Aelius Ericius: No.
- M. Cassius Julianus: No. * The proposed procedure is an excellent start,
but was done in a hurry since there was a "crisis" over Censorial funding. That has been dealt with in the short term, so there seems to be time for everyone who has ideas to present them. This can be worked out and completed next vote.
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas (yes).
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS. We have to start somewhere on
this, and most of the proposal is perfectly sensible
- M. Minucius Audens: No! (I agree with my Colleague Senator
Germanicus that, in my view, to pass a flawed Consultum is far worse than to wait for a reasonable time to get it right. There is a saying which applies: "We never have the luxury to get it right the first time, but always have sufficent resource to correct it!!!" )
- C. Tullius Cicero: Negat, this has not been sufficiently discussed.
- N. Moravius Vado: No. Good in principle, but I cannot
support it as it stands. It needs much more careful, unhurried work, especially on detailed procedure for claiming, assessing claims, reimbursement, and audit. I strongly suggest we co-opt a committee, from citizens with professional experience, and including the Quaestores, for encoding such procedures as proposed law. Project funding - in fact, the whole issue of project management - needs a whole manual, not just part of one Senatus Consultum.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Negat. This procedure was rewritten twice from varius
submissions. It still needs some tweaking. Suggest it is polished and resubmitted for Dec. Call.
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS I agree with Cassia. We have to start
somewhere. If we keep changing the text, it will never get done.
- M. Marcius Rex: NEGAT More time for discussion needed
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: NEGAT There is much of value in this proposal,
but the quaestores' role is incorrect.
- D. Iunius Palladius: Iunius Palladius votes no
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Antiquo (Negat/NO)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: NEGAT. While a procedure is needed, this one has
the Quaestors choosing whether to approve an expense, which is not proper.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: NEGAT There seem to be both structural and
grammatical errors with this proposal.
Results
UR: 3; ANT: 15; ABS: 0 : Failed
2. Appointment of at least two Quaestors to oversee the Nova Roman Treasury
Proposal
"It is proposed that Nova Roma enact the following policy on financial controls:
To safeguard the integrity of Nova Roma's Treasury, at least two Quaestors will be appointed to oversee the administration of its account. The first, the Quaestor Aerarium, will have the authority to issue checks for approved purposes and will make deposits of monies received. The second, the Quaestor Librum, will perform monthly bank reconciliations and make timely reports to the Senate and People of amounts received and spent, but will have no authority to write checks on the Treasury account.
The Quaestor Aerarium will add the Consuls as signatories to the Treasury account at the beginning of their term (and remove them at the end of said term). In the event that the Quaestor Aerarium cannot complete his or her term, the Consuls will manage the Treasury until they appoint an existing Quaestor to the post or hold a new election.
In the event of a dispute between the two Quaestors, or of any question regarding their work, the Senate may vote to investigate the Quaestors' work by appointing a responsible individual to do so, said appointment to last no more than 30 days and conclude with a thorough report to the Senate.
Both the Quaestor Aerarium and the Quaestor Librum have the additional responsibility of informing the Consuls as soon as possible if they cannot complete their terms in office. This should be standard procedure for all elected posts, but should be mandatory for these two jobs because of their importance to Nova Roma.
This procedure, with two officials providing checks on each other's work, will be followed for any future bank accounts set up in Nova Roma's name and using Nova Roma's tax identification number.
II. It is proposed that Nova Roma purchase bonding insurance for members of the following group -- Quaestor Aerarium, the Quaestor Librum and the Consuls -- who live in the United States of America. This is intended to protect Nova Roma against possible theft of funds by people holding said offices. It requires the payment of a fee and the submission of personal information about said office-holders to the bonding agency."
Vote and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Cassius Julianus: YES.
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS. Same points apply
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas, there should be a permanent treasury staff.
- N. Moravius Vado: NEGAT/ANTIQUO/NO For reasons similar to those stated
above, I cannot give this my approval.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS
- M. Marcius Rex: Negat More time for discussion needed
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius abstains. I think that we should start
moving control of the treasury towards a more permanent, professional staff.
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS
Results
UR: 15; ANT: 2; ABS: 1 : Passed
3. Sponsorship by Nova Roma of Legio V Alaudae (The Larks)
Proposal
"Salvete, Patres, I thank you for this opportunity. Legio V will always uphold the vision, ideals of Nova Roma in all our activities. We will promote Nova Roma to all who come in contact with us. We sincerely hope to have a long lasting relationship with Nova Roma. Thank You. Ave Atque Vale Gaius Atilius Lepidus Centurio Primus Pilus Legio V Alaudae SPQR
APPLICATION follows (Posted seperatly) FOR LEGIO SPONSORSHIP NOVA ROMA Name of Legio: Legio V Alaudae Legio address: 401 Grimes St, Ft Bragg,NC 28310 Legio email address. PaulFitsik@w... or dragoon_trooper@y... Website URL: ttp: //community.webtv.net/paulfitsik/LegioVAlaudae City, State, Country of Legio Encampment(station): Ft Bragg, NC USA LEGIO PARTICULARS: Full name of Commander of Legio: Gaius Atilius Lepidus Legal name: Paul Fitsik III Phone number: 910-436-4747(home) 910-432-5355(work) Email address: PaulFitsik@w... or dragoon_trooper@y... Number of Legionaries in Legio: 5 full, 6 inprocessing/outfitting Has the Commander attained the age of 18?: Yes (31 years old) Are there any legionaries younger than 18 years in the Legio? no Month/year Legio was formed: Nones of Sextilis 1999AD (5 Sep 99) Time period of Reenactment of Legio: Caesar's Gallic Legios_X___ Imperal Legios_X____
What made you choose this time period?
Commander wanted a Legio founded by J. Caesar. Wanted them to be on the Gaellic Frontier. Time period of Legio V is the 1st Century AD (mostly but will cover Caesar's time period)
Brief History since formation: Sep 99 started Legio "on paper". Nov 99 recruited first Legionary (Aquilifer). @ more followed in Dec 99. Feb 00 started assembling suppliers and merchants for gear.
Apr 00 have 5 members. Developed an application for recruits. Apr-Sep 00 6 recruits in development stage. (not full members til they acquire all the basic gear requirements for "active involvement").
Long term goals within 5 years?: To have 20+ Legionary Troops for Renactments. To fully develope our school educational assemblies. We want to be the best Legio on the Field at various reenactment events eg: Roman Days in MD). Also all members fully involved with Nova Roma Cista, Gens etc.)
How did we hear about Nova Roma Sponsorship?: From Nova Roma's site.
What other Reenactment Legios have you had association with?: Legio XX, Matt Amt's Legio (due to mileage Commander is an associate member of XX). Are you associated with SCA or other period Reenactment Societies?: None so far. We are still looking at Legio V joining a reenactment society that best reflects our Legio's concept."
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Cassius Julianus: YES. * I also am not overly concerned over having
too many small legions. Sponsoring new startups only gives us an opportunity to grow Legions which are more connected to Nova Roma, and made up with a greater percentage of Citizens.
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas. (While some have expressed concerns about
sponsoring too many small legions, I think this is exactly the purpose of our sponsorship program - to give these legions a place to find one another and arrange projects in cooperation.)
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas, this is part of our goals.
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES Though I feel we should not go on to
sponsor an infinity of legiones, as I said earlier, I wish them well.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas. Although we should start thinking of
requesting greater numbers of recruits in legiones before we grant them sponsorship. Alaudae has a special place in my heart, since it was one of the first legiones I constructed.
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes yes
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS I had originally suggested the
sponsorship program way back when, and am quite pleased that it is being continued.
Results
UR: 18; ANT: 0; ABS: 0 : Passed
4. Incorporation of Switzerland into Province Germania
Proposal
When the Senate decided in February to establish the province of Germania it held that it should comprise the states of Austria and Germany. This was as mainly due to the advantages of a common language (German) and the small territory of Austria proper which would not have been enough to form a separate province.
But to the understanding of the censors, according to the e-mail addresses received, citizens of Germania are also to be found in Switzerland which for a large part also shares the same language as Austria and Germany does. We ask you, Conscript Fathers, to add the territory of Switzerland to the provincia Germania.
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes. * If there is later any objection from Italian,
French or Romany Swiss, we can adjust borders and/or name at that time. I assume it will be considered the Regio of Helvitia.
- M. Cassius Julianus: YES.
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas, though I wish we had been able to hear from
more actual Helvetian Citizens before making this choice.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: ABSTINEO.
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas, I don't see the combination as a problem.
- N. Moravius Vado: ABSTINEO/NO VOTE/ABSTAIN Although no French- or
Italian-speaking citizens have objected (I admit I do not know whether there are any to object), there may be objections in future. Also, as there is no one in this House to speak for the particular interests of the cives of Gallia or Italia, I feel unable to support this motion. And could we give the regio a more Roman name, like Helvetia, please?
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas This will set the record straight.
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS Though what about all the French speaking
citizens? When I was there I thought they made up a third of the population. Do they really want to be part of Germania?
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes yes
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS. Yes, but if a French or
Italian-speaking citizen of Helvetia prefers to be considered part of Gallia or Italia, I hope the censors would allow that.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS We are merely formally confirming
the status quo.
Results
UR: 16; ANT: 0; ABS: 2 : Passed
5. The Sodalitus Musarum is certified as a Nova Roman Sodalitas
Proposal
The Sodalitus Musarum is certified as a Nova Roman Sodalitas
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Cassius Julianus: YES.
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas. May the Gods inspire them.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES This Sodalis will, divis volentibus,
enrich our cultural Romanitas and especially the Religio Romana.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes yes
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS
Results
UR: 18; ANT: 0; ABS: 0 : Passed
6. Quintus Sertorius shall be appointed Propraetor of Canada Occidentalis
Proposal
Quintus Sertorius shall be appointed Propraetor of Canada Occidentalis
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes. * [Much cheering, fanfares and flower petals!]
- M. Cassius Julianus: At last! I vote an enthusiastic YES, and am
gratified that his patience held out long enough to see this done.
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas. He has shown himself to be enthusiastic,
dedicated and energetic on behalf of Nova Roma.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas, Sertorious is perfect for the position.
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES He is a man of proven diligence,
enthusiasm, diligence and ability.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes yes
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS. He has worked hard for this, and will
make an excellent praetor.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS
Results
UR: 18; ANT: 0; ABS: 0 : Passed
7. Approval of a "Limes Cooperation" between the Provinces
Proposal
"The Limes Cooperation was founded with the basic tasks to:
- exchange experiences and know-how in all matters of provincial administration
- work together for researching the common history
- make experiences with such a form of inter-provincial cooperation, to bring in those experiences in a further, greater cooperation of interested provinces.
Website Development:
- working out basic standards for Nova Roma provincial websites,
- giving tips for the design,
- basic information for reserving an internet domain
- information about free internet services (message boards, counters etc.)
- basic webhosting for provinces without website: We could offer such provinces some space under the domain novaroma.de for 3 html-pages to present their province. The province might have some time then (e.g. 6 month) to search for an own provider. Then the pages are moved to the new provider. A link to the new adress is included.
Researching and presentation of the common history The Cooperation will be presented on an own page under the Germania homepage. On this page basic informations about the Cooperation´s tasks and aims will be displayed.
Furthermore, a Egroups-group is now established for the purposes of the Cooperation. This group is non-public, only provincial magistrates, Senators and central magistrates are accepted as members. A link to this group will be made on the Cooperation page under the Germania homepage.
This group is in test at the moment. When the senate gives it´s approval, the page an the access to the group will be set up."
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Cassius Julianus: I vote YES. (And am in agreement that we should be
more proactive and work toward starting such efforts ourselves.)
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Abstaino. I am not clear on this issue.
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES The sharing and emulation of best
practice, and mutual assistance, deserves approval. The Limes Co-operation facilitates this. I speak from experience.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes yes
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS. Standards are a good thing.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS
Results
UR: 17; ANT: 0; ABS: 1 : Passed
8a. The Senate sessions shall be public
Proposal
The Senate shall conduct its business within full view of the citizenry, by allowing all Citizens to read (but not post on) the Senate e-mail list. Exceptions are provided
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: No
- A. Gryllus Graecis: No
- M. Iunius: No
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Cassius Julianus: NO
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas. It is my understanding that in ancient Rome,
Senate discussions could be heard by (and were regularly discussed by) Citizens while they were going on. It is also consistent with the idea of helping Citizens of Nova Roma to feel more involved and to contribute their knowledge and ideas.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: NEGAT. I am persuaded by the arguments of
Australicus on this point.
- M. Minucius Audens: NO (Negat)! (I do not believe, in my view, that any
useful information can be gained by the Citizens of Nova Roma from hearing deliberations on the Senate Floor, and I am likewise absolutely certain that much harm and confusion would result from such a proposal. Finally it does not appear to be historically correct. I honor Senator Fortunatus for his abiliy to look past the immediate discussion, and pledge to him my support in the future toward keeping the Citizens of Nova Roma properly informed.)
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas, I am satisfied with the restrictions.
- N. Moravius Vado: NEGAT/ANTIQUO/NO As I have said before, if it proves
unworkable, it will be hard to revoke or amend. I would, however, support any future proposal to allow individual citizens read-only access on application (especially magistrates and other officials), for a limited period and to a limited number at any time.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Negat. I have already made my reasons known. If the
Republic didn't do it, why should we? The Senators conducted business out doors, until they had to debate topics. Then they went inside. There had to be a reason for this. I think I was so they wouldn't be intimidated by the populace.
- M. Iucundia Flavia: NEGAT It was not done in old Rome. We are
attempting to recreate the Roman republic.
- M. Marcius Rex: Negat I bow to Sergius Australicus for his
constitutional law opinion on this particular proposal.
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: NEGAT I have, no doubt, surprised many with this
vote. I came into this debate much in favor of the idea, though I had some slight qualms about the technicalities of its execution. I remain torn between a desire to provide a transparent government and a wish to maintain the mos maiorum. I have long argued that one of the major questions facing Nova Roma is how much to keep of the old versus how much to add of the new. It is not a question that will be answered quickly or easily. Additionally, the major reason that I originally felt that this body's deliberations should be open to the populace is because of the tendency to use senatus consulta to decide issues that should be taken before the comitia. Often, we treat our decisions as though they create law, and we have occasionally acted as though we have a right to discipline individual citizens--effectively acting as a closed court in which the accused is not even assured of being allowed to defend him or her self. If we take onto ourselves the powers of the comitia, then we must be exposed to scrutiny and answerable to the people for our decisions. However, I am heartened by the fact that almost every candidate for major office has made building the institutions necessary to rectify the problem of the Senate's arrogation of powers that are not its by right the center of his or her campaign. Therefore, in light of those campaing promises, and in an optimistic spirit, I opt to maintain the mos maiorum.
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes no
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Antiquo (Negat/NO)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: NEGAT. I refer once again to the line from Twain
(or Bismarck) about sausage-making.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: NEGAT I am guessing, based on on the votes of
some of my colleagues, that we are to vote individually for each half of this item. If I am mistaken in this assumption, then my vote for the combined 8th item is NEGAT. (May I suggest that in the future such items be split into two for clarity's sake?).
Results
UR: 3; ANT: 15; ABS: 0 : Failed
8b. The votes and opinions of the senators issued during a Senate session shall be public
Proposal
The votes of individual Senators, along with any rationales they offer with their votes (i.e., in the same e-mail as the vote itself), will be made available to the Citizens by the Tribunes of the Plebs, either by forwarding them to the main Nova Roma e-mail list or by posting them to the Nova Roma web site.
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Cassius Julianus: I vote YES, and suggest that there should be a
record of Senate votes posted to the website. No Senator should be
- forced* to explain their vote, but an option for such should definitely
be included.
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS.
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES This House as an institution, and many
of its members as individuals, have suffered from an undeservedly negative perception by the populus. I trust this will go a long way to remedying the matter.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas. This has always been allowed. Lists were
often put up on the sides of the Rosta so those that could read could inspect them.
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes yes
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS. Although the process itself should be
conducted in privacy, the people do have a right to know who supports which items. Even though we are appointed for life, many of us run for elected office as well, and should therefore be held accountable. I also believe this to be historically correct, as the Tribunes (and door-slaves) did inform the people what happened within the Curia.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS As long as this doesn't turn into
the "thin edge of the wedge", I don't see any harm in it. I haven't been able to find anything that speaks of Senate votes being a secret ballot.
Results
UR: 17; ANT: 1; ABS: 0 : Passed
9. In magisterial elections where several positions must be filled in, the voter shall cast just one vote OR as many votes as positions are available.
Proposal
In magisterial elections where several positions must be filled in, the voter shall cast just one vote OR as many votes as positions are available.
Votes and opinions
A. "One Vote"
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: No.
- M. Cassius Julianus: A. One vote. Octavius has made an excellent case
for this.
- Patricia Cassia: A. One vote. I am persuaded by Octavius' arguments on
behalf of historical accuracy.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS. I am persuaded here by the
argument for consistency with Roma Antiqua and by the immediate practicalities. I do think, however, that it is unfortunate that we have attempted to have a full number of Centuries with a small number of citizens. This rather destroys the point of the Century system, irrespective of the silly results of treating a century as "tied" when one citizen votes.
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Negat. If there is more than one selection there must
be more than one vote to reflect the opinion of the citizen.
- N. Moravius Vado: NEGAT/ANTIQUO/NO People have a right to vote for as
many candidacies as there are posts to be filled. Votes will be spoiled as a result of misunderstandings. This will be contentious. Ancient practice is not always best practice.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas. We do have to come up with a better system
eventually.
- M. Iucundia Flavia: NEGAT This is not a full vote. It is half a vote.
Why should the citizens stand for that?
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
8D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes **NO** on this item, which should more properly be called the "half a vote per voter proposal."
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS. This fixes a flaw in our system in a
historically correct way. Each person selects *one* candidate for consul or praetor, just as our ancestors did. A beneficial effect of this is that both competing viewpoints will be represented in the Consulate, and the consuls will serve as controls on each others power -- as the founders of the Republic intended.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS My arguments in favor of this
option have already been presented.
B. "Multiple Votes, Ties Awarded to All"
- L. Cornelius Sulla: No
- A. Gryllus Graecis: No
- M. Iunius: No
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: NEGAT, for the reasons above
- M. Minucius Audens: NO (Negat)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas, as above.
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES It has been said that this system would
favour political parties. There are no political parties in NR. May the gods spare us that! It has been said that this system gives people more than one vote for each candidate. Mea sententia, it is better to give the voters more votes than they ought to have, rather than deny them the votes they ought to have.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Negat. Too many potental problems though I liked the
effort.
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS What problems? People get to vote for who
they want. Isn't this what it is all about?
- M. Marcius Rex: NEGAT
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: NEGAT A very good try, M Octavius.
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes YES
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Absto (abstain)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: NEGAT. It seemed like a good idea at first,
mathematically and logically sound, but it is not historically correct, it also encourages factionalism by allowing an entire "party" to be voted in, and it changes the balance of power by allowing some votes to be counted twice.
Results
- Item 9a: UR: 13; ANT: 5; ABS: 0 : Passed
- Item 9a: UR: 5; ANT: 10; ABS: 3 : Failed
10. Approval of the proposal, to the comitia, to appoint an extra (3rd) rogator
Proposal
We will need a new Rogator for 2001. Livia Cornelia Aurelia has declared that she will step down after the elections are complete, citing overwork as the main cause. Once again Conscript Fathers, we will be without a vital part of our governmental process.
There must be some way we can keep this from happening. Might I suggest we ask the people to change the constitution to include a third elected or appointed Rogator, with only two needed to oversee the electoral process?
This has several attractive features. First, it allows on the job training for the new Rogator, second, if we lose one we have a backup ready and we can hold elections for a third, immediately. The solution would keep our government from being paralyzed as it was for most of this year, when it came to summoning the Comitia.
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes*My comments on this proposal is that it should
be taking to the Comitia and the Lex Vedia amended. Otherwise according to the Legal precedence section in the Constitution, this Senatus Consulta means very little.
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius says: It would help the Republic to function if we
had a couple of spares for this highly essential post. We should so recommend this to the Comitia.
- M. Cassius Julianus: I vote YES. I also agree with Germanicus that there
should actually be *four* trained Rogators at any time as opposed to three.
- Patricia Cassia: Assuming this is actually a recommendation to the
Comitia rather than an attempt to overturn a Lex (which we can't do), Uti rogas.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS - provided that this is to be
understood as a recommendation for legislation, not as an unconstitutional attempt to amend a lex by s.c.
- M. Minucius Audens: NO (Negat)! (The item is not worded properly to be
voted upon by this August Body. A change in the proper Lex should be submitted for approval and then voted upon by the people. Again, in my view, a flawed Consultum is worse than no decision at all.)
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES
If the Senate is entitled to co-opt a Dictator in an emergency, it would seem absurd for the Senate not to take the initiative to co-opt back-up Rogatores (I would favour two), when the machinery of government is in danger of breaking down. Consul Q. Fabius has every right to feel exasperated. So do I. A general agreement to bend the rules of the Constitution in cases such as those we have experienced this year, when the Comitia cannot work and elections cannot be held is, I believe, fully pardonable when a shortcoming in the Constitution has us backed into a Catch-22 situation. It is the spirit of the law, not the letter of it, which is important at times like these. So I am voting for something that is unconstitutional and therefore (technically) illegal. I hope it is the last time I shall feel I need to do such a thing. I hope this passes the vote, and goes to the Comitia for ratification (assuming we have enough Rogatores to allow this to happen).
- Q. Fabius Maximus: I say yes it should be done and sent to the Comitia
for ratification. The Consules will write a lex and put it to the people next week.
- M. Iucundia Flavia: NEGAT It is unconstitutional as written.
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS I concur with Senator Labienus on this issue
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS I agree to this only inasmuch as we
shall secure a replacement for either of the two elected rogatores in anticipation of the eventuality that one of them may prematurely lay down the task. We do not have the power to alter a lex, and I urge the consules to draft an appropriate lex and put it before the people during the upcoming election.
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes NO
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Antiquo (Negat/No) As Germanicus pointed out this
is not something we can do, but I do think this should be something that is on the first comtia call.
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS. I am aware that the lex specifies two
Rogators; therefore the third must be strictly considered a backup, who will assume the position when one of the primaries fails to fulfill their duty.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: NEGAT The Senate lacks the legal authority to
alter a Lex. The item, as presented, is unconstitutional in my opinion. If it does pass, I would urge the Tribunes to exercise their power of intercessio in such cases. (I would absolutely support a Senatus Consultum that urges the Lex be amended by the Assembly...)
Results
UR: 13; ANT: 5; ABS: 0 : Passed
11. Appointment of Pompeia Cornelia Strabo as Propraetor of Canada Orientalis
Proposal
Appointment of Pompeia Cornelia Strabo as Propraetor of Canada Orientalis.
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Cassius Julianus: I vote YES. Pompeia Cornelia Strabo has proven
herself to be both dedicated and enthusiastic. I believe Nova Roma will benefit greatly by having her in this office.
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas. Pompeia Cornelia is a thoughtful and mature
person who will represent us well. 8M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas, Cornelia is well suited to the position. I
am pleased to see both Canadian positions will be filled for the first time.
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES She is as worthy of the office as Q.
Sertorius is of that of Propraetor Canadae Occidentalis, for the same reasons.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Vti Rogas. Though is it my imagination or are most of
the Cornelii Provincial Praetors?
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes yes
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS
Results
UR: 18; ANT: 0; ABS: 0 : Passed
12a. Creation of a province called "Argentina"
Proposal
Creation of a province called "Argentina".
Votes and opinions
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Cassius Julianus: I vote YES, although I agree that the province
should be called Argentinia.
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas (though I am with Germanicus in wishing it
were called Argentinia).
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas.
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES Although I think it is more a matter of
the Senate approving what has already been created.
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas.
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes yes
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS
Results
UR: 18; ANT: 0; ABS: 0 : Passed
12b. Appointment to Argentina praetorship of Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Proposal
Appointment to Argentina praetorship of Lucius Pompeius Octavianus.
Votes and opinions
- L. Cornelius Sulla: Yes
- A. Gryllus Graecis: Yes
- M. Iunius: Yes
- C. Aelius Ericius: Yes.
- M. Cassius Julianus: YES
- Patricia Cassia: Uti rogas.
- M. Mucius Scaevola Magister: UTI ROGAS
- M. Minucius Audens: YES (Vti Rogas)!
- C. Tullius Cicero: Vti rogas.
- N. Moravius Vado: UTI ROGAS/YES
- Q. Fabius Maximus: Uti Rogas
- M. Iucundia Flavia: VTI ROGAS
- M. Marcius Rex: UTI ROGAS
- T. Labienus Fortunatus: UTI ROGAS
- D. Iunius Palladius: Palladius votes yes
- L Equitius Cincinnatus: Vti rogas (Yes)
- M. Octavius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS.
- Flavius Vedius Germanicus: VTI ROGAS
Results
UR: 18; ANT: 0; ABS: 0 : Passed
Valete,
Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus Tribunus Plebis
