Session LXXVIII 23 November 2759

This is a report of a session of the Nova Roma Senate of a.d. IX Kal. Dec. ‡, K. Buteone Po. Minucia cos. ‡ MMDCCLIX a.u.c..

Senate Voting Results, published on a.d. VI Kal. Decembras MMDCCLIX A.U.C., or 26 November 2006 AD.

The Senate was called to order on 16/Nov/2006 (2759). The Contio was held on agenda items until 20/Oct/2006. Voting on the agenda items was then held from 20/Nov/2006, 24:00, to 23/Nov/2006, 24:00 (time of Rome).

On 23rd of November, the latest session of the Senate of Nova Roma was declared closed by the Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo, in which 28 of the 36 senatores voted, fulfilling the quorum needed for the session.

Here are the list of the voting Senators, alphabetically listed by nomen:

• [FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar
• [LAF] Lucius Arminius Faustus
• [MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior
• [MBA] Marcus Bianchius Antonius
• [MCJ] Marcus Cassius Julianus
• [PC] Patricia Cassia
• [GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
• [LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
• [GFBM] Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
• [CFBQ] Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
• [QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus
• [CFD] Caius Flavius Diocletianus
• [TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
• [MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
• [MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus
• [GL] Gaia Livia
• [LMS] Lucius Minicius Sceptius
• [MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens
• [PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo
• [MOG] Marcus Octavius Gracchus
• [TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
• [GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas
• [GSA] Gnaeus Salvius Astur
• [JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna
• [LSA] Lucius Sergius Australicus
• [QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
• [ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
• [FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus

The following senatores failed to vote in this session:

• [SAS] Sextus Apollonius Scipio
• [MCS] Manius Constantinus Serapio
• [CCS] Caius Curius Saturninus
• [ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica
• [DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
• [TLF] Titus Labienus Fortunatus
• [GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus
• [AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia

According to the Edictum Censorium of 17th October, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix was excluded from the senate records and Senator Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus appointed to his place.

The items for consideration were as follows:

Item I: Publius Memmius Albucius is to be appointed Propraetor Gallia Provincia.

[FAC] Uti Rogas. I'm very happy to give my vote for the appointment of a very skilled gentleman. I'm sure he would lead Provincia Gallia as well as possible [LAF] Uti Rogas. [MAM] Uti Rogas. [MBA] Uti Rogas. [MCJ] Uti Rogas. [PC] Uti Rogas. [GEM] Uti Rogas. [LECA] Uti Rogas. [GFBM] Uti Rogas. [CFBQ] Uti Rogas. I have the greatest confidence for and big expectations with this hardworking citizen. [QFM] Uti Rogas. [CFD] Uti Rogas. [TGP] Uti Rogas. I strongly support this applicant and believe he will do a very good job for us. [MMPH] Uti Rogas. [MIP] Uti Rogas. With all my best congratulations and thanks for his dedication to Nova Roma. [GL] Uti Rogas. I am sure he will do an excellent job. [LMS] Uti Rogas. [MMA] Uti Rogas. [PMS] Uti Rogas. [MOG] Uti Rogas. [TOPA] Uti Rogas. [GPL] Uti Rogas. [GSA] Uti Rogas. [JSM] Uti Rogas. [LSA] Uti Rogas. [QSP] Uti Rogas. [ATMC] Uti Rogas. [FVG] Uti Rogas (yes)

Results of Item I: Uti Rogas, 28; Antiquo, 0; Abstineo, 0. Congratulations, Publius Memmius Albucius, Propraetor of Provincia Gallia of Nova Roma.

Item II: Lucius Aurelius Severus is to be appointed Propraetor Canada Orientalis.

[FAC] Uti Rogas. I don't know him directly but the reccomendations by my colleagues are enough to vote him. [LAF] Uti Rogas. [MAM] Uti Rogas. [MBA] Uti Rogas. [MCJ] Uti Rogas. [PC] Uti Rogas. [GEM] Uti Rogas. [LECA] Uti Rogas. [GFBM] Uti Rogas. [CFBQ] Uti Rogas. On the recommendation of Pompeia Minucia Strabo, the present Proconsul and Consul, I support this candidate. [QFM] Uti Rogas. [CFD] Uti Rogas. [TGP] Uti Rogas. This candidate has the support of his predecessor and I defer to her judgment on this matter. [MMPH] Uti Rogas. [MIP] Abstineo. [GL] Uti Rogas. [LMS] Uti Rogas. [MMA] Uti Rogas. [PMS] Uti Rogas. [MOG] Uti Rogas. [TOPA] Uti Rogas. [GPL] Uti Rogas. [GSA] Uti Rogas. [JSM] Uti Rogas. [LSA] Uti Rogas. [QSP] Uti Rogas. [ATMC] Uti Rogas. [FVG] Uti Rogas (yes)

Results of Item II: Uti Rogas, 27; Antiquo, 0; Abstineo, 1. Congratulations, Lucius Aurelius Severus, Propraetor of of Provincia Canada Orientalis of Nova Roma.

Item III: The Senate of Nova Roma approves the following Code of Conduct, adopting its language as a basic policy of what the Senate body believes to be an appropriate minimum standard of conduct for its individual members. A Senatus Consultum does not override the Censors' authority in this regard, but the Censors are invited to take this adoption into consideration in any decisions they face regarding conduct of Senators. (for complete text, see message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/47453 )

[FAC] Uti Rogas. I strongly vote for this item, we need a code ruling this August Chamber against unpolite and offensive actions. The Sanatores would be the conscience of the Res Publica and a good example for the Populus. I only would suggest to insert (maybe in the laws) more detailed guidelines. [LAF] Uti Rogas. With some observations: "support and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma" doesn´t mean the Senator will prevent himself to make any critic and remark to the constitution he considers worthy for the better follow of Nova Roma to the true Roman way. [MAM] Abstineo. [MBA] Abstineo. [MCJ] ANTIQUO. This document is so vague it is absurd. It can give no help to the Censors, nor appraise the Senators of any definable course of conduct. [PC] Antiquo. [GEM] Uti Rogas. [LECA] Iterum ANTIQUO (a second time NO) "fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt". [GFBM] Uti Rogas. [CFBQ] Uti Rogas. I supported this the last time it was proposed and see no reason to not support it now. As Nova Roma is an international organization with citizens from different cultures I think it is wise to have a common ground to stand on. [QFM] Antiquo. [CFD] Antiquo. [TGP] Antiquo. Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo suggested that some of us needed to comment on this issue more and some of us have but the proposal is as it was when first presented. No changes have been made. [MMPH] Uti Rogas. [MIP] Abstineo. [GL] Antiquo. I do not believe that we need to adopt a 'Code of Conduct' to define what constitutes reasonable behaviour - if someone is considered worthy of being admitted to the Senate in the first place then they don't need treating like a school child, and as this proposal doesn't even have any real legal weight, it also seems like an exercise in futility. [LMS] Abstineo. I consider there is no need for a code to rule the behaviour of people's speeches. On the other hand, any time someone acts in a rude way, I feel compulsive to tell him about (Not off as a kid). Therefore, it is a good chance for some people to check their own behaviour that maybe inspired tha [MMA] Uti Rogas. I have written of my approval of this measure to some extent, since I believe it to be a measure that will help the Senate in their deliberations. I believe that I have fully understood the points made by other Senators, and having understood them agree with some and simply disagree with others. I see no threat in this proposal to any Senator who pursues an adult line of Courtesy in manner and speech, nor do I see a "plot" for the taking over of the Religio Romano. I do not embrace this measure with the idea of forcing anyone to live or alter his / her manner in any way, but rather to live up to the Oath that we all hold dear, and to smooth the path of our deliberations with courtesy and consideration for another view. [PMS] Uti Rogas. [MOG] Uti Rogas.It is sufficiently vague that it will allow the Censores to exercise judgement, yet still provide good guidelines to the Senators. [TOPA] Uti Rogas. With thanks to those who have worked to put these together. [GPL] Antiquo. [GSA] Abstineo. [JSM] ANTIQUO. I've given arguments on both sides careful consideration, and greatly appreciated the recitation by M. Horatius Piscinus of Cato's advice, but cannot help but feel that, code of conduct or no code of conduct, those who value civility will conduct themselves according to their natures and those who do not will not be guided by such a code. In any case, however repellent I may find certain modes of expression, I cannot do otherwise than defend individual's right to free speech. [LSA] Antiquo. [QSP] Uti Rogas. [ATMC] ANTIQUO. This one was not an easy decision for me, but I can understand the arguments against this item, and tend to agree with them. [FVG] Antiquo (no).

Results of Item III: Uti Rogas, 11; Antiquo, 12; Abstineo, 5. The proposal does not pass.

Item IV: The Senate approves the formal assignment of the State of Hawaii, U.S.A. to California Provincia Nova Roma.

[FAC] ABSTINEO. It seems that Hawaii is yet in Provincia California. In any way I vote abstineo because if on one side Hawaii would need a provincia and maybe California is the best choose, on the other side the current California is not able to manage this isles too. [LAF] ANTIQVO. Future Consul Paulinus as some ideas about provinciae reforms. I will make a vote of confidence on his work. [MAM] Uti Rogas. [MBA] Uti Rogas. [MCJ] Uti Rogas. [PC] Uti Rogas. [GEM] Uti Rogas. [LECA] Uti Rogas. Since no actual Senatus Consultum has been found for this matter, I've been advised that it wouldn't hurt to keep the item on the agenda, in the interests of being legal and proper. [GFBM] Uti Rogas. [CFBQ] Uti Rogas. This seems reasonable to me. [QFM] Uti Rogas. [CFD] Uti Rogas. [TGP] Antiquo. I believe the historic record shows that this was already done in 2753 (2000) [MMPH] Antiquo. [MIP] Uti Rogas. [GL] Uti Rogas. [LMS] Antiquo. I don't believe this will help too much. Learning from my own mistakes, I would say that adding new territory to a existing Province without getting from the people of such territory the will or the knowledge about, changes nothing the new Province. Therefore, better to wait and think about some other ways. [MMA] ABSTAIN. If the Regio Hawaii is already assigned to the Province of California, I see no reason to vote. If the Regio Hawaii is not yet assigned to a given Province, then some detailed reasoning should be submitted as to it's determination. [PMS] Uti Rogas. [MOG] Antiquo. [TOPA] Uti Rogas. [GPL] Uti Rogas. [GSA] ANTIQVO. I see no point in incorporating any number of citizens to a Province that has not shown any activity whatsoever for several years. [JSM] ANTIQUO. I believe that the individual living in Hawai'i deserves our attention and support. However, I believe provincial boundaries should not encompass territory so vast as to be impracticable and I would like to see provincial reform address this at some future date. [LSA] Uti Rogas. [QSP] Antiquo. [ATMC] Uti Rogas. [FVG] Uti Rogas (yes)

Results of Item IV: Uti Rogas, 18; Antiquo, 8; Abstineo, 2. The state of Hawaii, USA, is confirmed as part of Provincia California of Nova Roma.

Item V: Proposal withdrawn for revision.

[PMS] I've done a double-take, and I am having some reservations about the current presentation of Item V. After seeking advice from my colleague and a couple of veteran Senators, I've decided to take this off the ballot. I would like to see the criteria for Senate approval for constitutional amendments less constricting, but this scheme would prove to be not constricting enough for my comfort level. If we can work something out for next ballot we can revisit it, but for the moment, I'm going to can it.

[TGP] While this item has been withdrawn for revision I wish my comments part of the public record. The Senate advises that the following proposal for constitutional amendment should be placed before the Comitia Centuriata (note...this is not an attempt to ask the Senate to 'pre- ratify a constitutional amendment, but a request for advice as to the plausibility of going further with the item) I Constitutional Basis, Section A2 CURRENTLY READS: 'This constitution may be amended by a Lex passed by the Comitia Centuriata and approved by a vote of two-thirds of the Senate. PROPOSED REVISION: 'This constitution may be amended by a Lex passed by the Comitia Centuriata and approved by 2/3 of Senators voting on the amendment. The current rules on a quorum state that two-thirds of the Senate is needed to conduct business. That means at least twenty- four of thirty-six Senators must be in attendance. If sixteen of the twenty-four vote for an amendment, under the proposed rule it would allow a minority of Senators to ratify constitutional amendments. Currently twenty-four Senators are need. Sixteen of the current thirty-six Senators is not a good idea. It could even be fewer if the current rules on a quorum were to be changed to say fifty percent plus one of the Senate. ( A change in the current rules only requires a majority plus one). In this case nineteen Senators would constitute a quorum and thirteen would be need to ratify a constitutional amendments. Thirteen out of thirty-six Seantors. Again not a good idea.

Item VI: The Senate appoints Marcus Octavius Gracchus as Magister Aranearius (webmaster) Novae Romae 2760 AVC

[FAC] Uti Rogas. [LAF] Uti Rogas. He is the best. [MAM] Uti Rogas. [MBA] Uti Rogas. [MCJ] Uti Rogas. [PC] Uti Rogas. [GEM] Uti Rogas. [LECA] Uti Rogas. [GFBM] Uti Rogas. Marcus Octavius Gracchus is an asset to Nova Roma and I am pleased that he is willing to take on such an important task. [CFBQ] Uti Rogas. Marcus Octavius Gracchus has always done a wonderful job in this position when he has held it. I am grateful if he once more takes this burden on his shoulders. [QFM] Uti Rogas. [CFD] Uti Rogas. [TGP] Uti Rogas. We would be crazy not to except his service. His willing to do a large amount of the grunt work is unmatched. He has my sincere thanks. [MMPH] Uti Rogas. [MIP] Uti Rogas. [GL] Uti Rogas. [LMS] Uti Rogas. [MMA] Uti Rogas. My thanks to Senator Octavius for all that he has done, all the time he has spent, and all the finances donated to the building of NR. [PMS] Uti Rogas. My thanks to Marcus Octavius Gracchus for this, and for all he's done for us in the past. [MOG] Abstineo. [TOPA] Uti Rogas. [GPL] Uti Rogas. [GSA] Uti Rogas. [JSM] Uti Rogas. I have worked as Scriba to Marcus Octavius Gracchus in the past and find his service to be exemplary in every way. [LSA] Uti Rogas. [QSP] Uti Rogas. I special thanks to Marcus Octavius Gracchus for handling this big responsibility. [ATMC] Uti Rogas. Marcus Octavius has for years done an excellent job, and has the sincere thanks of this Senator. [FVG] Uti Rogas (yes)

Results of Item VI: Uti Rogas, 27; Antiquo, 0; Abstineo, 1. Congratulations, Marcus Octavius Gracchus, Magister Aranearius designati.

Item VII: The Senate recognizes Sodalitas Graeciae as an official Sodalitas of Nova Roma. (for complete text, see message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/47453 )

[FAC] Uti Rogas. The greek culture is part of the Roman and Classic Culture, the Greek was the common international tongue out the italica peninsula, I don't see reason to refuse it and its studies. [LAF] Uti Rogas. A good new indeed. [MAM] Uti Rogas. [MBA] Uti Rogas. [MCJ] Uti Rogas. [PC] Uti Rogas. [GEM] Uti Rogas. [LECA] Absto. I don't want to hinder citizens from that which they desire, but I also don't understand why they need to have this in Nova Roma. [GFBM] Uti Rogas. I think it is important for the Senate to support the interests of our citizens. I believe that this Sodalitas will be a benefit to Nova Roma and I applaud those individuals spearheading the project. [CFBQ] Uti Rogas. If there are citizens who feel they want to do this within Nova Roma I see no reason to stand in their way. [QFM] Antiquo. This was a tough one. I want to give the Roman people what they want, yet we should be studying Romans. Since I'm grounded in the classics I understand exactly what the Hellenes did for improving Rome, and later, a club such as this might be a benefit. But right now I do not believe this, or a Keltic, or a Germanic club would benefit Nova Roma. [CFD] Abstineo. [TGP] Uti Rogas. [MMPH] Uti Rogas. [MIP] ANTIQVO. I really don't see how this could make Nova Roma closer to Ancient Rome; in my humble opinion a simple mailing list can satisfy who want to chat about Rome and the Ellenic world without being an official/recognized NR organization. [GL] Uti Rogas. [LMS] Uti Rogas. [MMA] Uti Rogas. Several comments on this item were worthy of detailed consideration. Certainly our focus in NR should be on the ancient Roman Culture. However, much of what later became the Roman Culture was adopted or combined from the Greeks. Many, if not most, of the technical ideas to come to it's fuller development under the detailed and consistent energies of the Romans came from the Greeks. Much of Roman Philosophy was originated in the minds of the Greek world. Finally as the Honored Consul has indicated, in Nova Roma new ideas, and new citizens should be encouraged and not discouraged in their efforts for the state. [PMS] Uti Rogas. [MOG] Uti Rogas. [TOPA] Uti Rogas. The Romans recognised a lot of their higher culture derived from the Greek, why should not we? [GPL] Uti Rogas. [GSA] Uti Rogas. [JSM] Uti Rogas. [LSA] Antiquo. [QSP] Uti Rogas. Greek was indeed the universal language of the Roman Empire. Music to art came to the Romans from the Greek culture. I recall that no Roman magistrate got provincial postings ie overseas positions without being fluent in Greek. I wish the best to all those who wish to learn more about ancient Greek culture - especially the language.

[ATMC] Uti Rogas. Another difficult decision. However, I believe that this one is appropriate and so my vote reflects that belief. [FVG] Antiquo (no).

Results of Item VII: Uti Rogas, 22; Antiquo, 4; Abstineo, 2. Sodalitas Graeciae is now an official Sodalitas of Nova Roma.

Valete Marcus Arminius Maior Tribunus Plebis